Vote against me if you want me out: caretaker PM Yingluck

[Tim1980]

Yes if Thais don't like Yingluck & her policies & her party PTP, they can simply vote her out! Don't sell your votes to her instate vote for Suthep if you think what he does is good & if you believe that Suthep & his team could be good for you Thais & your country

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Edited January 6, 2014 by Tim1980

[Spalpeen]

2011 general election result. The inconvenient truth that the anti democracy conspirators refuse to face.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed. It is generally accepted, but not written into law, that quoting the first two or three sentences of an article and giving a link to the source is considered “fair use” and not a violation of copyright.

[rixalex]

paying people doesn't guarantee they will vote for you. The dems paid my wife's family last time and they voted for Yingluk. Took the money and thought suckers.

People will still vote for whoever they want

You keep saying this... not everyone is like your wife's family, many will vote for who paid them...

What if i told you that in one study only 4% answered that they would change they're vote when offered money? Most people are not as stupid as you think, and are clever enough to take the money and vote for what they originally intended. Some people even only accepts bribery from the party they originally intended to vote for.

I can add link if you are interested in reading the article, but is it allowed to post links from Asiancorrespondant.com? Don't understad all the rules on this page.

Politicians are little more than sales people, much like your average shop assistant. Every day around the world, shop assistants are getting millions of people to buy things they might not have bought, getting them to buy something more expensive than they planned to. It's not because customers are stupid, it's because selling is a well practiced art, and the "artists" know full well which buttons to press.

Politicians are just the same, and handing out "donations" is one of their buttons. Doesn't work on everyone of course, but works on enough to make it worth the outlay. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

[marcusd]

Great idea because the Shin dynasty have more money than the opposition with which to buy votes. Without any reform, the election is simply a financial transaction as it is sold to the highest bidder. The number of posts I have seen banging on about a democratically elected government is heartbreaking. How is buying an election democratic?

name JUST ONE place in Asia with a TRUE DEMOCRACY. Just one and I will show you there is NONE. And this woman says all the right muses but practices total corruption

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

[Rich teacher]

Vote buying is an excuse. By all accounts,all of the major parties have & continue to use this tactic. Thaksin Shinawatra & family are only the 10th richest in Thailand, according to Forbes (2013), so how is it they they have such overwhelming finances to dominate the political landscape? Newin Chitchob was used by the Dem coalition to outbid PT in the north & north-east, but was spectacularly unsuccessful. The reds/PT called for international observers for the last election, but they were denied by the Dems, who of course don't respect 'farang'.

This is just one of a few choice excuses used by the opposition to try & explain the simple fact that they are not well enough supported to win a general election.

The Reds DID NOT call for observers for the last election... who told you this...Your wife no doubt... whatever, its a complete fallacy... at no time in history has Thailand asked for international observers... Get your facts right ..

Thailand rejects foreign election monitors

"I am surprised that Red Shirts do not respect our country's sovereignty... I don't understand why they constantly call for foreign involvement, it is inappropriate," Suthep told reporters.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/454183-thailand-rejects-foreign-election-monitors/

[chooka]

Someone may not understand why Millions of people protesting since over 2 months.

Reform before Election...very easy to understand...

But Ms. Stubborn and the rest of the gang, include their credulous followers think, they can sit it out...

This is the Taksin democracy, thers no place for other meanings, and by the way, this Government is the bankrupt of Thailand.

Elections dont solve the problems, it make them worse...

Millions protesting are you sure?

Yes and we have seen the millions outside of Bangkok protesting too... Ahh is something missing here? oh yes, the majority of Thailand, not just people from Bangkok and southern or central regions. Oh, does one really know what democracy really is. Just a question to ponder....

I can show you someone who doesn't know what democracy means.

YOU!

de·moc·ra·cy

[ di mókrəssee ]

1. free and equal representation of people: the free and equal right of every person to participate in a system of government, often practiced by electing representatives of the people by the majority of the people
2. democratic nation: a country with a government that has been elected freely and equally by all its citizens
3. democratic system of government: a system of government based on the principle of majority decision-making

Suthep and his band of idiots do not represent the Majority.

An Election is the only way that will prove if he has the Majority. Overthrowing a government by a small band of the minority at the expense of the Majority wishes does not define a democracy

[Mrgk]

Thailand rejects foreign election monitors

"I am surprised that Red Shirts do not respect our country's sovereignty... I don't understand why they constantly call for foreign involvement, it is inappropriate," Suthep told reporters.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/454183-thailand-rejects-foreign-election-monitors/

Yet another reason to support the "Reform movement"! After the "reforms" to stamp out "corruption" have been implemented, Thailand will be spared the perils of election monitoring once and for all!

[ginjag]

2011 general election result. The inconvenient truth that the anti democracy conspirators refuse to face.

WAS THEN. so with this amazing 48% have they ruled with complete transparency ???? have they achieved what they promised ??? Having the mandate to govern does not give them freedom to dictate and pillage. Now the country is Bankrupt Your all happy with democracy ??? it don't mean much here, so don't use it, the government overlooked the word, so why do you use it ???

[Mrgk]

name JUST ONE place in Asia with a TRUE DEMOCRACY. Just one and I will show you there is NONE. And this woman says all the right muses but practices total corruption

As far as I can tell there is little evidence that Democracy leads to less corruption with any degree of certainty. The point of Democracy is achieving legitimacy, I.e. deciding who gets to rule without having to resort to killing one another.

There is (by necessity) no guarantee of efficient, non-corrupt government inherent in Democracy, especially as "efficient" and "corrupt" are both highly flexible concepts.

[DiamondKing]

Someone may not understand why Millions of people protesting since over 2 months.

Reform before Election...very easy to understand...

But Ms. Stubborn and the rest of the gang, include their credulous followers think, they can sit it out...

This is the Taksin democracy, thers no place for other meanings, and by the way, this Government is the bankrupt of Thailand.

Elections dont solve the problems, it make them worse...

Millions protesting are you sure?

Yes and we have seen the millions outside of Bangkok protesting too... Ahh is something missing here? oh yes, the majority of Thailand, not just people from Bangkok and southern or central regions. Oh, does one really know what democracy really is. Just a question to ponder....

I dont think these people know what a million people look like

[marcusd]

What is the point of an election when the likely winner will be an autocratic government taking orders from an unelected criminal?

.

Ha Ha Ha! Classic example of the idiotic double think spouted by the anti democracy gang. The point of having an election is......so that we don't get an UNELECTED autocratic government taking orders from an unelected criminal. Thaksin is wanted for corruption. Suthep is wanted for murder and treason, in addition to his record of corruption in Phuket.

With an election you can see exactly who you are voting for or against. Who exactly are Sutheps shadowy 'Good People'? Anyone know? Let's have a look at their records. If they are all that 'Good' why don't they step out of the shadows and put their names forward in an open election?

vent your spleen! Take up arms! Get to the head of the line to defend this democracy!

What bloody democracy are YOU supporting?

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[ginjag]

Yes and we have seen the millions outside of Bangkok protesting too... Ahh is something missing here? oh yes, the majority of Thailand, not just people from Bangkok and southern or central regions. Oh, does one really know what democracy really is. Just a question to ponder....

I can show you someone who doesn't know what democracy means.

YOU!

de·moc·ra·cy

[ di mókrəssee ]

1. free and equal representation of people: the free and equal right of every person to participate in a system of government, often practiced by electing representatives of the people by the majority of the people
2. democratic nation: a country with a government that has been elected freely and equally by all its citizens
3. democratic system of government: a system of government based on the principle of majority decision-making

Suthep and his band of idiots do not represent the Majority.

An Election is the only way that will prove if he has the Majority. Overthrowing a government by a small band of the minority at the expense of the Majority wishes does not define a democracy

I thought PTP was a minority with 48%. they only govern with others at the trough, without them they could not govern they need these leaches to help them push though dubious legislation.

[marcusd]

The ballot box does NOT give you democracy, democracy is how you govern.

.

.

We seem to have struck a rich vein of idiocy today. Why bother with all that pesky voting nonsense when you can have 'democracy' without it? Any names yet for Sutheps 'Good People'?

any names for PTP'S GOOD PEOPLE?

let me think...mmmmm...nup. I don't think there are any on either side

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[Mrgk]

WAS THEN. so with this amazing 48% have they ruled with complete transparency ???? have they achieved what they promised ??? Having the mandate to govern does not give them freedom to dictate and pillage. Now the country is Bankrupt Your all happy with democracy ??? it don't mean much here, so don't use it, the government overlooked the word, so why do you use it ???

Democracy does not guarantee you that people "rule with complete transparency" (has this happened anywhere at any time?), that they achieve all that they promise (again, an unusual occurance in any democracy), that they do not "dictate" (indeed, to "dictate" is the job of government), nor that the government does not drive the country into bankruptcy (a common occurance, again).

Democracy is mainly about deciding who gets to rule without having to go through the usual (often unpleasant and expensive) coup-assassinate-civil war cycle that is the primary alternative for changing the government.

This is why Democracy is also brittle - it is akin to a cease-fire agreement. All it takes is that one major side walks away from the table for it to fail, as Thailand has seen in the last decade. And once a cease-fire is broken, it is hard to get it going again, as it relies on mutual trust.

[Smokemachine]

if as some claim, elections are invalid due to vote buying, for the cost of 1 to 2 months' rice scheme, the opposition could pay the bribes (500-1000 baht/vote) for the required swing vote... they will probably spend more on rent-a-mobs (and suthep's compensation scheme for those who die for him)

the reality is they don't lose elections because of vote buying (even the more sensible members of the "democrats" such as korn accept this is not a major factor), rather they lose elections because they are less popular than the government

the "democrats" should address their own shortcomings and take power democratically through positive and non-divisive campaigning, combined with a manifesto of policies that offer a prosperous and fair future for all thais (basically cut the hate speech, ask the people what they want, then offer it to them)

but this is too much hassle so instead they will take power by terror again, and as history tells us this will only be temporary as the government's supporters will fight for a return to democracy... and political instability will continue with no hope for peace... very sad

You mean the democrats feel more hassle paying the bribes (500-1000 baht/vote) for the required swing vote??

It is more easy for them to take power by terror.

I need to have a deeper thought now.

[Mrgk]

I thought PTP was a minority with 48%. they only govern with others at the trough, without them they could not govern they need these leaches to help them push though dubious legislation.

What is hilarious here is that supporters of Suthep with great regularity claim not only that the Thai electoral system is unfair in favor of the PTP, but then use that as an argument for their current coup plotting.

In fact the current system was entirely designed under the last post-Coup government (in the 2007 constitution) and the last Democrat administration (when they changed the number of seats in the house to 500 before the 2011 election. Deliciously perverse.

[antimedia]

Great idea because the Shin dynasty have more money than the opposition with which to buy votes. Without any reform, the election is simply a financial transaction as it is sold to the highest bidder. The number of posts I have seen banging on about a democratically elected government is heartbreaking. How is buying an election democratic?

paying people doesn't guarantee they will vote for you. The dems paid my wife's family last time and they voted for Yingluk. Took the money and thought suckers.

People will still vote for whoever they want

Around my way, (mid North East) you register your name at a rally and only get paid if the politician you support wins.

[ginjag]

WAS THEN. so with this amazing 48% have they ruled with complete transparency ???? have they achieved what they promised ??? Having the mandate to govern does not give them freedom to dictate and pillage. Now the country is Bankrupt Your all happy with democracy ??? it don't mean much here, so don't use it, the government overlooked the word, so why do you use it ???

Democracy does not guarantee you that people "rule with complete transparency" (has this happened anywhere at any time?), that they achieve all that they promise (again, an unusual occurance in any democracy), that they do not "dictate" (indeed, to "dictate" is the job of government), nor that the government does not drive the country into bankruptcy (a common occurance, again).

Democracy is mainly about deciding who gets to rule without having to go through the usual (often unpleasant and expensive) coup-assassinate-civil war cycle that is the primary alternative for changing the government.

This is why Democracy is also brittle - it is akin to a cease-fire agreement. All it takes is that one major side walks away from the table for it to fail, as Thailand has seen in the last decade. And once a cease-fire is broken, it is hard to get it going again, as it relies on mutual trust.

I don't disagree with most of what you post. It is this governments record (all documented) that has caused this trauma. whether it is technically democratically elected or not it cannot carry on, it is bankrupt and ??? impossible situ with PM in complete denial. Running a country from another land and is convicted of crimes here, your democracy together with all other irregularities is thrown out the window --they did it only themselves to blame NOT the nutter Suthep who they are attacking.

[HerIndoors]

I once listened to Thai accademic who said that 'We have a good democracy in Thailand, we gave them the vote but they keep voting for the wrong people'. If the democrats truly believed in democracy then they would have a long hard think about their poicies, why they can't win an election and make changes.......this is what most political parties do in the west. However here, they have dogedly stuck to the same old same old and refused to engage the vast majority of the population in the political discourse. It really is a very arrogant attitude.

Personally I'm not convinced that a democracy is the best solution for Thailand..... but hey.... I'm just a barley tollerated guest....their country....their problem....up to them to find their own solution.

[ginjag]

I thought PTP was a minority with 48%. they only govern with others at the trough, without them they could not govern they need these leaches to help them push though dubious legislation.

What is hilarious here is that supporters of Suthep with great regularity claim not only that the Thai electoral system is unfair in favor of the PTP, but then use that as an argument for their current coup plotting.

In fact the current system was entirely designed under the last post-Coup government (in the 2007 constitution) and the last Democrat administration (when they changed the number of seats in the house to 500 before the 2011 election. Deliciously perverse.

Ha Ha I never said the system was unfair.

I am answering the minority on TVF who say that it won the election with a landslide B/S I know how they are in control and not wrong--the demo's would have done the same BUT posters saying they are the government elected--NO they are in power because without the hangers on they could not rule.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[Dualeck]

Yes and we have seen the millions outside of Bangkok protesting too... Ahh is something missing here? oh yes, the majority of Thailand, not just people from Bangkok and southern or central regions. Oh, does one really know what democracy really is. Just a question to ponder....

I can show you someone who doesn't know what democracy means.

YOU!

de·moc·ra·cy

[ di mókrəssee ]

1. free and equal representation of people: the free and equal right of every person to participate in a system of government, often practiced by electing representatives of the people by the majority of the people
2. democratic nation: a country with a government that has been elected freely and equally by all its citizens
3. democratic system of government: a system of government based on the principle of majority decision-making

Suthep and his band of idiots do not represent the Majority.

An Election is the only way that will prove if he has the Majority. Overthrowing a government by a small band of the minority at the expense of the Majority wishes does not define a democracy

I thought PTP was a minority with 48%. they only govern with others at the trough, without them they could not govern they need these leaches to help them push though dubious legislation.

Oh my. Can i ask where you are from? Because it seems to me you don't have any knowledge about coalition government.

[Rich teacher]

2011 general election result. The inconvenient truth that the anti democracy conspirators refuse to face.

WAS THEN. so with this amazing 48% have they ruled with complete transparency ???? have they achieved what they promised ??? Having the mandate to govern does not give them freedom to dictate and pillage. Now the country is Bankrupt Your all happy with democracy ??? it don't mean much here, so don't use it, the government overlooked the word, so why do you use it ???

Constantly I read anti- govt posts claiming "pillage" ," massive corruption", "pigs feeding at the trough, etc. Can we have some evidence of such please? Please inform us of which govt MPs are under investigation for corruption, as with Apirak in the last govt.

In fact the Yingluck govt have fulfilled most of their election promises, with bringing Thaksin home being one that they haven't been able to deliver on. But they have pushed through tablets, rice pledging, Infrastructure spending,...

I agree that some of their policies are very misguided, in particular the rice pledging and first car scheme, but I can't see how they have committed any major offences as is claimed by Suthep and his followers. If their policies are not liked simply vote them out. Don't go around blowing a lot of hot air, making false accusations and causing mayhem.

[icare999]

paying people doesn't guarantee they will vote for you. The dems paid my wife's family last time and they voted for Yingluk. Took the money and thought suckers.

People will still vote for whoever they want

You keep saying this... not everyone is like your wife's family, many will vote for who paid them...

he keeps saying it because it is true but you choose to believe the hype about vote buying

they vote for who they want (and take anyones money) stop spinning the silly lie that someone knows how they vote - they don't

correct but point is people at least here believe head of village and others somehow do know how they vote and so since they believe that for them it is the truth. So ops wife is simply dishonest taking money for a service she does not give. Hardy moral is it to take money for your vote or id ops wife so poor she needs to lie and take money. Some I know do take money and vote whatever but many many more in some perverse way believe it would be wrong to take money for their vote and then not give it. THis is not a western democracy it is still largely a feudal system and what head of village or local big win says is accepted by most poor thais in country. In cities they are a bit more sophisticated but not a lot.

Wake up and stop telling lies which claim their is no intimidation or threats made to force people to vote for who head of village says and Taksin has been very clever and successful in buying those people. Even if some would prefer to not play Taksins's game they could not do anything or they would be turfed pout smartly and replaced by a more sympathetic head of village.

It will hopefully change for new generation but for old ones and most above say 30 years of age or so the old feudal system prevails and Taksin is a master at playing that card.

It is also pointless trying to explain to most thais that Taksin and his clan , cronies are robbing the country blind since they simply think its not their money and have no understanding of fact that they pay taxes. Vast majority think since they are poor its costing them nothing and in fact many/most believe the government have their own money and even that taksin uses his own money to fund the country.

Go and talk live amongst these people and while not really their fault you will begin to understand how different it is from western democracies.

Simply look at this TV all controlled by government and not a meant ion on main channels of any protests or discussion. Its vert very sad really even peasants in UK hundreds of years ago understood who was taking their money but Thailand's equivalent seem to think robber barons like Taksin care one bit about them.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[Dualeck]

correct but point is people at least here believe head of village and others somehow do know how they vote and so since they believe that for them it is the truth.

This is just completely wrong. As I mentioned earlier in this thread a study during the 2011 election showed that only 4% said they would change they're vote due to bribery. This shows that most Thai People is in fact not as stupid as you think, and can think logically and understand that there is no way the head of village (etc..) can know what they vote. What you are referring to was the case for 20-30 years ago. And that would be the time the Democrats still was winning elections. People is not that stupid anymore, although that is what the ignorant Bangkok elite (and you) believe of people from Isan and the North.

The article can be found on the Asian Correspondant's website. Not sure about what newspapers i am allowed to post links to here.

And as for you you're conspiracy about TV being controlled by the current government. That is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, i do read commentaries about Thai politics on Bangkok post, The Nation, Reddit and much more. But there is no place i can read so many disgusting characterisations as what people in this forum writes about Yingluck.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Dualeck

[tx22cb]

Vote against me if you want me out

So full of confidence... or has her vote buying handout all ready...

PTP would be idiots to resort to buying votes after all this kerfuffle about corruption.

And with the Dems out, PTP can just waltz it. From memory, the number of election posters in BKK this year is very low compared to 2 years ago.

[Cricketnut]

Great idea because the Shin dynasty have more money than the opposition with which to buy votes. Without any reform, the election is simply a financial transaction as it is sold to the highest bidder. The number of posts I have seen banging on about a democratically elected government is heartbreaking. How is buying an election democratic?

As both International Moderators and Thai moderators of the last election have already stated that the election of Yingluck was legitimate and fair. As stated before, in any western society, in an unpopular area for the current government in power all they do is promise infrastructure, better roads, schools, hospitals etc and deliver on these. Simply another form of vote buying, one tangible and beneficial, the other type, being cash payments less so; but obtaining the same effects. Wake up people we live in Thailand.

Will the next government be less corrupt then this one? Did anyone complain when Thaksin built the Skytrain, upgraded motorways, new airport, and other infrastructure in the east and north east? Noooo.... So before you answer BTS users, he did do some good to the country. And what politicians dont line their pockets?? Ahh American ones for sure, with all Obama's deals going to firms where nearly all the polies have shares in.

People, where not living in a dream land, here or in the west. Stop expecting one and get on with life as best as one can. There is no perfect form of government either in the east of the west, they, in my mind are all just as bad as each other. The only difference is that one is more transparent. Heartbreaking indeed!!

In this kingdom you cannot use the word transparent, it is near non existent . it is free for all, from the top to the farm. Pity for the others who want clean government. Here the cancer is malignant and terminal.

Ahh, I knew that I would have to explain that transparent is referring to the west and not Thailand, I guess I was not "clear" enough.

[ikke]

paying people doesn't guarantee they will vote for you. The dems paid my wife's family last time and they voted for Yingluk. Took the money and thought suckers.

People will still vote for whoever they want

You keep saying this... not everyone is like your wife's family, many will vote for who paid them...

Maybe, but we all know that both sides pay for votes, so why only post about the reds....they pay both and get votes, problem is that more people don't want yellow money, because after they get nothing back....