Selling a motorcycle -- Test drives: What do you do?

[connda]

I've sold personal cars before and the buyer has the right to expect to be able to test drive the car. No problem. I get in the car with the potential buyer an off we go. I'm with the buyer so he isn't going to steal the car, and the test drive was in a Western country where traffic is relatively predicable and the chances of an accident were negligible and the vehicles were fully insured.

I've never sold a motorcycle. A buyer should still have the right to expect a test drive. But! First we're in Thailand. Traffic is completely chaos and serious accidents happen disproportionately to motorcycles. I don't know the skill level of the driver and coupled with the accident rate, there is always a chance the the buyer will wreak the motorcycle during the test drive. I mean, how do you protect yourself here. Have the buyer sign a waiver assuming full responsibility for the bike including theft? Ask for a passport for collateral? To me it seems you need to do essentially the same thing as a motorcycle rental shop. The bike has 3rd class liability coverage, not full coverage, so I need to be assured that if the bike is damaged or stolen the buyer will assume responsibility, and have leverage to make it happen. What do ya do?

Any advice from TV members who have sold motorcycles in the past?

[DILLIGAD]

I'd take a deposit prior to ride and return it if he changes his mind after the ride.

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[Lancelot]

Bought two used bikes, one I gave the owner no ID, the second I gave him my passport.

Sold two bike in Thailand. One buyer rode the bike in the soi with me watching; the other time the buyer left his Thai driver's license with me.

Sorta depends on the value of the bike and your personal gut feeling of the integrity of the prospective buyer IMHO

Good luck!

[MadMac]

Depends on the person. Or luck. Best is to take some form of ID as deposit. Not really a hard one, rather a token of trust exchanged. If you would not trust the seller or buyer, you'd not give the bike away nor sell it. Chemistry counts.

[stedyedy]

What about filming them than putting phone or camera on bike and driving it yourself going over a couple of bumps and going through all the gears on road,you could probably get them to say date aswell so if they dont buy you can show next person that way you dont have to fork out for gas if it dont sell they can see shocks and springs tyres are ok while stationary,be more the issue of engine and drivetrain are going good shown.

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[RubberSideDown]

This is what I posted on an earlier thread- there was a lot of disagreement, but it's the only way for a seller to be 100% sure of not losing anything- even if someone's leaves an ID card or passport it's not a guarantee- cash-in-hand solves all the issues.

The smartest thing a potential buyer can do is bring a friend to stay behind with the seller while the test-ride is going on.

Leave me payment-in-full (if you don't have it with you, you weren't serious about the bike in the first place)- you have ten minutes to bring me the bike back in the same condition I gave it to you if you want your money back.

'Test-rides' are (to me) the period of time during which I'll refund your money- bring it back dented or bruised and I'll express remorse that you just damaged your new bike.

[yankee99]

Every bike i have purchased here and abroad the seller always gave me a test drive. My one exception was my z1k...They never asked for id or a deposit that doesnt mean you shouldnt at least get id.

[ll2]

passport/id and signed agreement - you can create and print one at home!

[BlackArtemis]

I bought my ninja second hand and gave 50k and my passport. When i sell it, Cash is king. Give me 100%. I'll give it right back upon return. Or keep it if you want the bike.

[connda]

I bought my ninja second hand and gave 50k and my passport. When i sell it, Cash is king. Give me 100%. I'll give it right back upon return. Or keep it if you want the bike.

You're the third person to say that. I'm thinking that's the way to go. I'm in no hurry to sell the bike, so if a buyer can't temporarily exchange the cash value of the bike to cover potential damage during a test ride, than I can really rule them out as a serious buyer. If they can't trust me to hold their money, I sure can't trust them to take the bike for a solo spin.

If all you do is take a passport and have the potential buyer sign an agreement, if they wreck the bike you end up with the hassle of getting the police and courts involve. I don't want that sort of hassle.

Thanks all for the input!

Edited January 9, 2014 by connda

[BlackArtemis]

I bought my ninja second hand and gave 50k and my passport. When i sell it, Cash is king. Give me 100%. I'll give it right back upon return. Or keep it if you want the bike.

You're the third person to say that. I'm thinking that's the way to go. I'm in no hurry to sell the bike, so if a buyer can't temporarily exchange the cash value of the bike to cover potential damage during a test ride, than I can really rule them out as a serious buyer.

Thanks all for the input!

That's how I feel, if they really want it, they have the $. PLus, I just don't want to press my luck and be sitting with 50k and a fake ID or something

[RubberSideDown]

If you're a thief, you're probably also a liar- if you leave me only documentation or less than the sale price of the bike, you can say or do anything after a test ride- the police won't be too eager to get involved or sort things out in LOS, and at the least you can cause me a lot of grief trying to collect or set things right.

If you take my XXX,XXX baht bike for a spin, I think it's fair that you leave me the cash value of it if you're a serious buyer. Especially if it's a powerful, heavy, large-displacement bike, I have no way of judging someone's skill level or the likelihood they might drop it if they tell me a good story about their prior experience.

I've been doing business for a long time in Thailand- if you give someone the opportunity to screw you over, they often will due to the frequent lack of consequences, especially when it's an altercation between foreigners- it might turn some prospective buyers off, but it prefer to be cautious with strangers here, especially when it comes to money.

Edited January 9, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[Shurup]

This is what I posted on an earlier thread- there was a lot of disagreement, but it's the only way for a seller to be 100% sure of not losing anything- even if someone's leaves an ID card or passport it's not a guarantee- cash-in-hand solves all the issues.

The smartest thing a potential buyer can do is bring a friend to stay behind with the seller while the test-ride is going on.

Leave me payment-in-full (if you don't have it with you, you weren't serious about the bike in the first place)- you have ten minutes to bring me the bike back in the same condition I gave it to you if you want your money back.

'Test-rides' are (to me) the period of time during which I'll refund your money- bring it back dented or bruised and I'll express remorse that you just damaged your new bike.

Staying with buyer's friend is not a good enough guarantee that the buyer with a bike are coming back. Are you gonna hold their hand if they start walking away? Money is the only way.

[ll2]

If i am a buyer, i never hand my money to seller's hands as no proof. What if the seller claims lime he never received any money from me?

If seller does not allow me to test ride while holding my id, i just pass that deal.

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[robblok]

I am the dumb trusting type so far have not ran into any trouble buying and selling. Though when i bought this ninja and the seller got much of my money before i had the green book (he had to pay finance company) it was exciting. But i had a good feeling with it and i got the bike cheap as most did not like the deal.

But because how slow the finance company was i did get worried in the end. But snowflake was a great seller and I am really happy with the bike.

Sometimes you need to trust someone. I know sooner or later im going to get screwed over but i hate being so negative.

[funcat]

Well,it's always a judgment call...but with expensive and fast bikes it is a necessity to get some kind of credible deposit and maybe start on the secure parking lot to see the skills of the new owner-to-be....

I did some small bike deals and most of the time they come with some kind of transportation,so ID and the car/bike keys will have to do....IMO

[connda]

If i am a buyer, i never hand my money to seller's hands as no proof. What if the seller claims lime he never received any money from me?

If seller does not allow me to test ride while holding my id, i just pass that deal.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You don't. You have a signed written agreement indicating that the buyer has taken possession of your bike with collateral of xx,xxx ฿ given to you, i.e., the agree fair value of the bike. Stipulate in the agreement that the bike collateral is forfeited and the buyer becomes the owner in case of an accident or damage to the bike.

Really. How else do you protect your investment?

[connda]

If i am a buyer, i never hand my money to seller's hands as no proof. What if the seller claims lime he never received any money from me?

If seller does not allow me to test ride while holding my id, i just pass that deal.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The seller gives you a bike worth, say, 100K baht. You hand him an ID. Who is assuming the risk?

In my case, I don't have to sell the bike. The reasons I had to purchase the bike have changed, and I simply don't use it as much as I had planned to. But. I have no need to sell it either.

I give you a bike worth 100K and you give me 100K, our risks are even when we both have copies of a written agreement stipulating the 'temporary' terms of the exchange. If I give you the bike and you give me an ID, if you wreck or steal my bike, I have to take you into the Thai justice system, and I don't want to go there.

If you damage the bike, then the burden shifts to you to take me to court to argue the contract you sign is valid. I'd rather put the burden on the buyer. From my perspective, if the buyer is really interested and legitimate, equal asset exchange with a written agreement is a no-brainier.

Bottom line: When selling my bike, it's by my rule. Don't like my rules? Don't buy my bike. No problem.

I'm not a retailer. I have no monthly sale quotas or goals to meet. I'm not a farang that needs to sell all their hard assets because they need to return to their country in six weeks. And I don't need the money.

So if the buyer can meet my terms, we may have a sale. If not, I personally don't care. It's that simple.

Edited January 11, 2014 by connda

[yankee99]

If i am a buyer, i never hand my money to seller's hands as no proof. What if the seller claims lime he never received any money from me?

If seller does not allow me to test ride while holding my id, i just pass that deal.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The seller gives you a bike worth, say, 100K baht. You hand him an ID. Who is assuming the risk?

In my case, I don't have to sell the bike. The reasons I had to purchase the bike have changed, and I simply don't use it as much as I had planned to. But. I have no need to sell it either.

I give you a bike worth 100K and you give me 100K, our risks are even when we both have copies of a written agreement stipulating the 'temporary' terms of the exchange. If I give you the bike and you give me an ID, if you wreck or steal my bike, I have to take you into the Thai justice system, and I don't want to go there.

If you damage the bike, then the burden shifts to you to take me to court to argue the contract you sign is valid. I'd rather put the burden on the buyer. From my perspective, if the buyer is really interested and legitimate, equal asset exchange with a written agreement is a no-brainier.

Bottom line: When selling my bike, it's by my rule. Don't like my rules? Don't buy my bike. No problem.

I'm not a retailer. I have no monthly sale quotas or goals to meet. I'm not a farang that needs to sell all their hard assets because they need to return to their country in six weeks. And I don't need the money.

So if the buyer can meet my terms, we may have a sale. If not, I personally don't care. It's that simple.

Did i miss it in this thread what is the value of your bike?

[speedtripler]

if theyre serious about a solo test drive ,100% of the money would stay with me

if he crashes i would consider that a sale and give him the green book and spare key

[VocalNeal]

If you live in Pattaya it is easier. "I'll meet you at Bira for a test ride".

There is only one road in and out.

[B1ade]

either leave the cash in full before testing or leave a person behind, only either of those circumstances would I allow a test ride. Had a buddy back in the UK with a CBR1000, guy turned up for a viewing, went on a test ride leaving the keys to his BMW behind, guy never came back, he reported it, turns out the car was stolen so he lost that and the bike. Gotta be careful!

[ll2]

If i am a buyer, i never hand my money to seller's hands as no proof. What if the seller claims lime he never received any money from me?

If seller does not allow me to test ride while holding my id, i just pass that deal.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The seller gives you a bike worth, say, 100K baht. You hand him an ID. Who is assuming the risk?

In my case, I don't have to sell the bike. The reasons I had to purchase the bike have changed, and I simply don't use it as much as I had planned to. But. I have no need to sell it either.

I give you a bike worth 100K and you give me 100K, our risks are even when we both have copies of a written agreement stipulating the 'temporary' terms of the exchange. If I give you the bike and you give me an ID, if you wreck or steal my bike, I have to take you into the Thai justice system, and I don't want to go there.

If you damage the bike, then the burden shifts to you to take me to court to argue the contract you sign is valid. I'd rather put the burden on the buyer. From my perspective, if the buyer is really interested and legitimate, equal asset exchange with a written agreement is a no-brainier.

Bottom line: When selling my bike, it's by my rule. Don't like my rules? Don't buy my bike. No problem.

I'm not a retailer. I have no monthly sale quotas or goals to meet. I'm not a farang that needs to sell all their hard assets because they need to return to their country in six weeks. And I don't need the money.

So if the buyer can meet my terms, we may have a sale. If not, I personally don't care. It's that simple.

so, according to what uyu say, if i want to buy a 1.5 million ducati panigale, do i need to meet you with 1.5 million thb on my pockets and hand you that just for a test ride?

c'mon man, please be reasonable!

The agreement we signed together might not be accepted as an evidence in the court as well with no stamps etc.

of course your rules are your rules but i dont think so anyone accepts that!

Instead of asking money, you can check if the buyer has a helmet and gear while doing the test ride. Or you can find a closed space for the test ride like a gated condo parking etc

Edited January 14, 2014 by ll2

[RubberSideDown]

^

You wouldn't get a test-ride if that were my bike- what you would get is a ten-minute return policy after making payment- if you're not happy, I'll refund your money if you bring it back in the same condition that you took it- if you can't live with those terms, I guess I'd have to find another buyer.

Why should I, as the seller, assume the greater financial risk by giving you my 1.5mil asset with anything less than full payment? Your passport, license, or whatever guarantee you're willing to leave will mean little or nothing without serious expense and time in my end to take you to court if you decide to do a runner or argue that you don't have the cash to pay.

[inzman]

Most bike sales are cheapo scooters, if it starts it sells. Never had anyone ask to go for a ride. Sold many this way and never had a problem.

[ll2]

If you're a thief, you're probably also a liar- if you leave me only documentation or less than the sale price of the bike, you can say or do anything after a test ride- the police won't be too eager to get involved or sort things out in LOS, and at the least you can cause me a lot of grief trying to collect or set things right.

If you take my XXX,XXX baht bike for a spin, I think it's fair that you leave me the cash value of it if you're a serious buyer. Especially if it's a powerful, heavy, large-displacement bike, I have no way of judging someone's skill level or the likelihood they might drop it if they tell me a good story about their prior experience.

I've been doing business for a long time in Thailand- if you give someone the opportunity to screw you over, they often will due to the frequent lack of consequences, especially when it's an altercation between foreigners- it might turn some prospective buyers off, but it prefer to be cautious with strangers here, especially when it comes to money.

you are a hard seller rubber! your bike your rules of course but i dont think so you will see someone coming to see your bike with 1.5 million baht in the pocket, nowhere in this world.

expensive bikes have to be sold back to the official dealer. yes they pay less 5 - 10 percent less but no test run paranoia no hassle.

i sell my bikes to friends mostly or trade them.

Edited January 14, 2014 by ll2

[RubberSideDown]

^

It's not necessary to bring the money. You could come and look at it- you could hear it run, and follow me on your own bike if you have one. If you decide to buy it, you'll have a short but reasonable time to ask for a refund (and if you can't trust me to refund you, how can you expect me trust you to take my bike for a test-ride?) You wouldn't have to show up with 1.5mil in cash in your pocket to check the bike out.

Selling to a friend or someone I have some prior relationship with (even some people from this board that I haven't met in person) would be a different story- I've let friends try out my bikes (as long as I know they can handle them) without selling being an issue- this thread is about dealing with a complete stranger (at least that's what my posts have been about).

[Briggsy]

Another option is giving a test ride in an area from which there is only one exit and you block it. e.g. a cul-de-sac, a condo car park, a sports ground.

ID is a must. Taking a photo is a good idea. Bring your mate or mates along to the sale along with your intuition for people who are out to cheat to you.

[RubberSideDown]

^

What will you do if the bike is dropped in this closed area and the guy refuses to pay for it? Call the cops? They'll say to contact your insurance company. Beat him up? That might give you a measure of satisfaction, but it won't help you at all. Sue him in court? He could say the brakes failed or some other excuse, and then it's your word against his, but you're the one with the damaged bike, and even if you win it's a gigantic hassle.

This isn't a likely scenario, but it's not inconceivable either (you could easily be dealing with some jerk who won't pay for his error)- I always think of the worst-case scenario, and then proceed in a way that will avoid it. I've seen too much shady crap and too many untrustworthy people in LOS (and elsewhere) to leave myself exposed to that kind of problem.

[Briggsy]

Another suggestion is to publish your test ride policy on the advertisement for the bike.

I reckon less than half of buyers actually turn up with the cash these days even in cash-economy Thailand. You can transfer money by smartphone or others will go to the bank after they have seen the bike.

If you don't say in advance and then refuse to allow a test ride for those potential buyers who are not prepared to hand over the cash in full, the buyer may decline to buy. That may be an inconvenience to the seller or not.

There is no perfect solution.