Diplomat: India withdraws privileges for US embassy

[gchurch259]

The US really needs India, if they all go home there will be no taxi drivers, laundries, motels and people to answer troubleshooting phone calls for half of the service industry.

But, some are very good hard working people who obey the law and do not abuse the lower class.

[ravip]

I say start shutting down those call centers putting millions out if work until India takes responsibility for those who do wrong, no matter what their status. The US can not stand by and let other countries dictate its laws. Screw these people. Shut them down !!!

Let's wait patiently without singing hosannas...

Eventually someone's gonna get screwed and shut down!

The writing's on the wall.

[F430murci]

Perhaps there is some kind of domestic political benefit to be gained in India by drumming up this conflict. I suspect it will pass. The India-USA relationship is just too important for both countries.

As far as the USA preaching to other countries on morality issues, that's fine within limits I suppose. I wish more countries would lecture the USA on things like the massive inequality (worse than Thailand) and the ridiculously high rates of incarceration especially among minority men. Wouldn't the USA preaching carry more weight coming form a country with MORE morality?

If minorities didn't commit so many crimes and such a high percentage if the crimes, minorities would not be incarcerated. Shocking concept to some apparently. Inequality in US is a perception and excuse used by those that fall short for other reasons. US actually gives minorities more opportunities and assistance than non minorities.

[GinBoy2]

Looks like she is on her way home following formal indictment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/world/asia/indian-diplomat-flies-home-after-indictment-in-us.html

Yes, the US conceded that she had full diplomatic immunity and both sides worked out a face saving solution. But US side came out poorly in this issue.

I think the one you came out the worst of all of this was the maid. She somehow, seems to have been forgotten

[F430murci]

The US really needs India, if they all go home there will be no taxi drivers, laundries, motels and people to answer troubleshooting phone calls for half of the service industry.

But, some are very good hard working people who obey the law and do not abuse the lower class.

Most from India I know in the US have highly skilled jobs such as doctors and engineers. Have to say they typically still have a screw lose and chip in their shoulders, but they are typically hard workers. I have issues with the cheap labor and call centers located in India utilized by US companies. We need to show those down. I think we get less than what we pay for there.

[F430murci]

Goog riddance. Get the whole family out of here if they cannot respect our laws and don't let them come back. Cut corners, break the law - you go back to India and enjoy that wonderful lifestyle there.

-----

A federal grand jury charged Devyani Khobragade with visa fraud and making a false statement for allegedly providing bogus information to get papers for a housekeeper . . .

In reality, the grand jury found, Khobragade had negotiated a secret deal with the maid to pay her just $3.33 an hour and ended up paying her less than $2 an hour by making her work 90-plus hours a week with no days off, including sick time.

. . .

The U.S. asked for a waiver of that immunity so Khobragade could face the charges against her. India denied the waiver, so the U.S. issued a note requesting Khobragade leave the country immediately.

Her husband and two children were left behind in the U.S. but were expected to follow her to India soon, her father said, according to Reuters.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/10/22245097-indian-diplomat-charged-with-visa-fraud-ordered-to-leave-us?lite

[simple1]

The US really needs India, if they all go home there will be no taxi drivers, laundries, motels and people to answer troubleshooting phone calls for half of the service industry.

But, some are very good hard working people who obey the law and do not abuse the lower class.

Some people have little knowledge of the importance of BPO and software services by Indian nationals for the US and other economies. As an example IBM, in 2012, employed more people in India than in the US. Many Indian nationals have sucessfully built hi tech companies in the US, their expertise & contributions have been reasonably critical in the US & elsewhere.

Besides China, don't overlook the important Indian efforts to counter Pakistani proxy war by elements in the Pakistani security forces and government to support the Taliban in Afghistan and Islamic extremism in some areas of India.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/26/nato-taliban-india-pakistan

[geriatrickid]

Yeah, that's an important detail.

Doesn't change my opinion that this wasn't worth it.

Prosecutors aren't legally obligated to pursue convictions on all cases, you know?

Probably didn't predict the blowback on this. Maybe they SHOULD have?

I see. The respect of basic employment law and human rights should be put aside when it comes to lowly domestic staff and an "important", wealthy person. Nice.

India professes to be a country of law and frequently yammers on about human rights and the protection of women and the poor. Who would have expected India, the loudmouth, to reverse its position and take on the defense of a well connected person? The Indians are duplicitous in this matter.

The only reason the Indian government is whipping up a furor on this is that the governing party has been losing seats and power to ultra nationalists. Nothing like playing to the lowest common denominator. India needs the USA more that the USA needs India. It is India that has a hostile Pakistan and land grabbing China on its border. It is India that needs the Persian Gulf oil shipping lanes secure and it is India that needs the USN to continue a presence off the coast Somali coast to protect its cargo ships against pirates. It is India that relies on trade with the USA.

If India keeps it up it is India that will suffer a backlash. Yes, some international companies have invested in the cheap labour of India, but they have seen a resulting deterioration of quality and service. Yes, many Indian entrepreneurs have been active in foreign economies. They are the people at risk, not the foreign economies. Frankly, I would be more than happy to have some of the call centers repatriated back to North America.

[F430murci]

The US really needs India, if they all go home there will be no taxi drivers, laundries, motels and people to answer troubleshooting phone calls for half of the service industry.

But, some are very good hard working people who obey the law and do not abuse the lower class.

It appears you have no knowledge of the importance of BPO and software services by Indian nationals for the US and other economies. As an example IBM, in 2012, employed more people in India than in the US. Many Indian nationals have sucessfully built hi tech companies in the US, their expertise & contributions have been resonably critical in the US & elsewhere.

Besides China, don't overlook the important Indian efforts to counter Pakistani proxy war by elements in the Pakistani security forces and government to support the Taliban in Afghistan and Islamic extremism in some areas of India.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/26/nato-taliban-india-pakistan

US could handle easily. India is used because its cheap. Perhaps it's time for US to focus on US's best interests as opposed to corporate America's best interests. Increasing profit margins at expense of US jobs and economy is misplaced priorities.

So it is not US that stands to lose, it is corporate greed that stands to lose. India got nothing that we cannot do on our own.

[geriatrickid]

Looks like she is on her way home following formal indictment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/world/asia/indian-diplomat-flies-home-after-indictment-in-us.html

Yes, the US conceded that she had full diplomatic immunity and both sides worked out a face saving solution. But US side came out poorly in this issue.

Really? So you consider the protection of the poor and the abused a poor outcome?

On the contrary, the USA showed that there are still some people in the USA with compassion, and a respect for basic human rights.

It is India that has been shown to be a corrupt and deceitful country. I think Americans should be proud of themselves on this one. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't popular. The USA protected someone in need of help and that's a good thing.

[saakura]

Looks like she is on her way home following formal indictment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/world/asia/indian-diplomat-flies-home-after-indictment-in-us.html

Yes, the US conceded that she had full diplomatic immunity and both sides worked out a face saving solution. But US side came out poorly in this issue.

I think the one you came out the worst of all of this was the maid. She somehow, seems to have been forgotten

May not be true. She had asked for asylum. The US govt granted it and also gave her family back in india a special visa on a top urgent basis and at their cost brought them to the US just 2 days prior to the diplomat's arrest. As per media reports, she and her husband had been trying for a while to get to the US and hence the indian govt's contention that the only victim here was the diplomat.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[F430murci]

Looks like she is on her way home following formal indictment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/world/asia/indian-diplomat-flies-home-after-indictment-in-us.html

Yes, the US conceded that she had full diplomatic immunity and both sides worked out a face saving solution. But US side came out poorly in this issue.

Really? So you consider the protection of the poor and the abused a poor outcome?

On the contrary, the USA showed that there are still some people in the USA with compassion, and a respect for basic human rights.

It is India that has been shown to be a corrupt and deceitful country. I think Americans should be proud of themselves on this one. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't popular. The USA protected someone in need of help and that's a good thing.

Ironic isn't it. Poster cares little about slave labor 90 hours a week with no time off for $2.00 an hour. Poster focuses on and condemns US without a care in the world for what that Indian family illegally did to that poor maid. This reflects Poster is just venting personal issues with the US that has little to do with the right or wrong of this situation.

Jingthing whines about inequality, but apparently ignores that US went to bat for a helpless minority that was subjected to salve labor in this situation.

[simple1]

The US really needs India, if they all go home there will be no taxi drivers, laundries, motels and people to answer troubleshooting phone calls for half of the service industry.

But, some are very good hard working people who obey the law and do not abuse the lower class.

It appears you have no knowledge of the importance of BPO and software services by Indian nationals for the US and other economies. As an example IBM, in 2012, employed more people in India than in the US. Many Indian nationals have sucessfully built hi tech companies in the US, their expertise & contributions have been resonably critical in the US & elsewhere.

Besides China, don't overlook the important Indian efforts to counter Pakistani proxy war by elements in the Pakistani security forces and government to support the Taliban in Afghistan and Islamic extremism in some areas of India.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/26/nato-taliban-india-pakistan

US could handle easily. India is used because its cheap. Perhaps it's time for US to focus on US's best interests as opposed to corporate America's best interests. Increasing profit margins at expense of US jobs and economy is misplaced priorities.

So it is not US that stands to lose, it is corporate greed that stands to lose. India got nothing that we cannot do on our own.

Besides cost factors India has a major investment in large numbers of quality technically educated people. How long to rebuild sufficient numbers in the US for qualified staff? Aside from the rhetoric, how many US citizens would willingly pay higher prices, let alone the detrimental factor of US MNCs being able to compete in the international marketplace with higher costs.

[saakura]

Looks like she is on her way home following formal indictment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/world/asia/indian-diplomat-flies-home-after-indictment-in-us.html

Yes, the US conceded that she had full diplomatic immunity and both sides worked out a face saving solution. But US side came out poorly in this issue.

Really? So you consider the protection of the poor and the abused a poor outcome?

On the contrary, the USA showed that there are still some people in the USA with compassion, and a respect for basic human rights.

It is India that has been shown to be a corrupt and deceitful country. I think Americans should be proud of themselves on this one. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't popular. The USA protected someone in need of help and that's a good thing.

You misunderstood. I did not mean that the US move was wrong or the maid did not deserve to be paid. Of course she must be paid as per the law of the land. In fact i would even oppose any diplomatic immunity anywhere for any diplomats except in very obvious political cases. And from my reading of the indian press, many indians too feel the same way. The crux of the dispute was regarding the manner of the arrest and subsequent posturing by the NY Federal Prosecutor. Many grand statements were made by both sides. The indian foreign minister announced in parliment that he would resign from politics if he did not get her back. The federal prosecutor made equally bold statements that she would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law etc. In this verbal duel, the US had to backtrack. I was in india during that time and the matter was very widely reported in the media there. India, corrupt inefficient and streets overflowing with sewage etc all very true and more, but no bearing on this case.

[ravip]

I don't know all the details of this case, but personally I think the U.S. government should have pursued a more "diplomatic" behind the scenes solution to the offending Indian diplomat, regardless of her actions. The relationship with India is too important. Was all this worth it?

i dont know the details either, but i am tired of people getting away wiith anything and everything just because they have the title "diplomate"

Agree 100% - Same as the "super-power" status.

Whatever they do, they do it right.

[ttthailand]

People always knock America and sometimes with reason but I am proud to be an American. Land of the free and home of the brave. Trying to do the right thing to help the weak and defenseless. That's what makes us great !

[ravip]

Looks like she is on her way home following formal indictment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/world/asia/indian-diplomat-flies-home-after-indictment-in-us.html

Yes, the US conceded that she had full diplomatic immunity and both sides worked out a face saving solution. But US side came out poorly in this issue.

Really? So you consider the protection of the poor and the abused a poor outcome?

On the contrary, the USA showed that there are still some people in the USA with compassion, and a respect for basic human rights.

It is India that has been shown to be a corrupt and deceitful country. I think Americans should be proud of themselves on this one. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't popular. The USA protected someone in need of help and that's a good thing.

You misunderstood. I did not mean that the US move was wrong or the maid did not deserve to be paid. Of course she must be paid as per the law of the land. In fact i would even oppose any diplomatic immunity anywhere for any diplomats except in very obvious political cases. And from my reading of the indian press, many indians too feel the same way. The crux of the dispute was regarding the manner of the arrest and subsequent posturing by the NY Federal Prosecutor. Many grand statements were made by both sides. The indian foreign minister announced in parliment that he would resign from politics if he did not get her back. The federal prosecutor made equally bold statements that she would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law etc. In this verbal duel, the US had to backtrack. I was in india during that time and the matter was very widely reported in the media there. India, corrupt inefficient and streets overflowing with sewage etc all very true and more, but no bearing on this case.

Are all nationalities paid the same wages in the USA?

e.g. Comparing a US & an Indian surgeon with equal qualifications & experience paid the same salary, same opportunities etc etc???

[F430murci]

Yes, the US conceded that she had full diplomatic immunity and both sides worked out a face saving solution. But US side came out poorly in this issue.

Really? So you consider the protection of the poor and the abused a poor outcome?

On the contrary, the USA showed that there are still some people in the USA with compassion, and a respect for basic human rights.

It is India that has been shown to be a corrupt and deceitful country. I think Americans should be proud of themselves on this one. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't popular. The USA protected someone in need of help and that's a good thing.

You misunderstood. I did not mean that the US move was wrong or the maid did not deserve to be paid. Of course she must be paid as per the law of the land. In fact i would even oppose any diplomatic immunity anywhere for any diplomats except in very obvious political cases. And from my reading of the indian press, many indians too feel the same way. The crux of the dispute was regarding the manner of the arrest and subsequent posturing by the NY Federal Prosecutor. Many grand statements were made by both sides. The indian foreign minister announced in parliment that he would resign from politics if he did not get her back. The federal prosecutor made equally bold statements that she would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law etc. In this verbal duel, the US had to backtrack. I was in india during that time and the matter was very widely reported in the media there. India, corrupt inefficient and streets overflowing with sewage etc all very true and more, but no bearing on this case.

Are all nationalities paid the same wages in the USA?

e.g. Comparing a US & an Indian surgeon with equal qualifications & experience paid the same salary, same opportunities etc etc???

Yes as to surgeons. My firms drafts employment contracts for surgeons and doctors having privileges at our hospitals.

[jimmybcool]

Are all nationalities paid the same wages in the USA?

e.g. Comparing a US & an Indian surgeon with equal qualifications & experience paid the same salary, same opportunities etc etc???

An Indian surgeon will be paid the same as any doctor for medical services rendered. Currently those rates are set by Medicare and Insurance companies and the individual can elect to choose a provider that charges more and make up the difference. But Medicare/Medicaid and Insurance companies have a set limit for specific procedures that have nothing to do with the doctor performing them.

Will Indian doctors get hired into all the same hospitals? Maybe not. Perhaps Indian medical schools aren't deemed as rigorous as US medical schools. For that matter will the doctor from a State University have the same opportunities as the one from Harvard? I think not.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[Jay Sata]

There is no place in the USA for a woman like this trying to exploit the serfdom of India.

[Bluespunk]

India has from the start to finish of this incident acted like a spoilt child, or rather the parent who's offspring can do no wrong. The woman broke the law, allegedly anyway. They have made themselves look ridiculous and childish with their behaviour in defending this alleged fraudster and skinflint. She didn't pay the maids wages and lied about it. If she is innocent she should go to trial. I wouldn't want to be the maid right now, she's made india and this woman lose face. India may be an economic power these days but they have a lot to learn about facing up to the consequences of wrong doing.

[Jay Sata]

In the great scheme of life I'd ask was the few dollars she saved on the maid worth it?

The expulsion from the USA will always haunt her and more so as her husband is a US citizen.

You can't buy lost of face in places like Asia or indeed France where the Hollande is mad angry about press revealing

the truth.

[simple1]

[if the americans feel outraged by this, then how can you fault indians who felt angered by the public arrest and handcuffing of their diplomat in front of her very young children, subjecting her to so called 'strip cavity searches', confining her in a cell with drug addicts and the NY Federal Prosecutor (himself of indian origin) trying to gain mileage out of it by making grand statements to the media. It was a matter of a maid not being paid minimum mandated wages, there was a dialogue ongoing between the two govts on this issue and should have been handled more tactfully. The maid had just arrived and been working for 5 months, there were no allegations of confinement or being ovrrworked or underfed etc.

As has been repeatedly stated within this topic the aggrieved, at the time of arrest, was a consulate representative they are not covered by diplomatic immunity. The rights of Consular staff are clearly articulated in the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations and they are subject to arrest and detention.

According to US media the women, upon arrest, was treated to the same process as any other detainee. Why would exceptions be permitted if not covered by diplomatic immunity.

In any case as mentioned above it would appear that the outrage expressed by Indian representatives was based upon pandering to nationalism for the upcoming elections in India.

[JoeThePoster]

Bloody foreigners, always making trouble in the US. Ask any Indian.

[Scott]

Post removed.

[Naam]

Are all nationalities paid the same wages in the USA?

e.g. Comparing a US & an Indian surgeon with equal qualifications & experience paid the same salary, same opportunities etc etc???

An Indian surgeon will be paid the same as any doctor for medical services rendered. Currently those rates are set by Medicare and Insurance companies and the individual can elect to choose a provider that charges more and make up the difference. But Medicare/Medicaid and Insurance companies have a set limit for specific procedures that have nothing to do with the doctor performing them.

Will Indian doctors get hired into all the same hospitals? Maybe not. Perhaps Indian medical schools aren't deemed as rigorous as US medical schools. For that matter will the doctor from a State University have the same opportunities as the one from Harvard? I think not.

whether Indian medical schools are rigorous or not is irrelevant. no Indian (or any foreign) doctor qualifies to practice in the U.S. without successfully completing rigorous exams in the U.S. the same applies to pharmacists, registered nurses or specialised medical personnel.

[geriatrickid]

Really? So you consider the protection of the poor and the abused a poor outcome?

On the contrary, the USA showed that there are still some people in the USA with compassion, and a respect for basic human rights.

It is India that has been shown to be a corrupt and deceitful country. I think Americans should be proud of themselves on this one. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't popular. The USA protected someone in need of help and that's a good thing.You misunderstood. I did not mean that the US move was wrong or the maid did not deserve to be paid. Of course she must be paid as per the law of the land. In fact i would even oppose any diplomatic immunity anywhere for any diplomats except in very obvious political cases. And from my reading of the indian press, many indians too feel the same way. The crux of the dispute was regarding the manner of the arrest and subsequent posturing by the NY Federal Prosecutor. Many grand statements were made by both sides. The indian foreign minister announced in parliment that he would resign from politics if he did not get her back. The federal prosecutor made equally bold statements that she would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law etc. In this verbal duel, the US had to backtrack. I was in india during that time and the matter was very widely reported in the media there. India, corrupt inefficient and streets overflowing with sewage etc all very true and more, but no bearing on this case.

Fair enough.

U.S. Attorney Preetinder Singh "Preet" Bharara has been quite aggressive of late. He was once considered the darling of the Indian community as he was born in the Punjab and rose to success in the USA. This is the attorney that took on Wall street and has been successful at prosecuting political corruption and gang crimes. He's a rather accomplished and brilliant chap, with a c.v. that is top notch. A graduate of Harvard and then the Columbia law school. He's no taxi driver. I think he lost his position of the Indian communiy's adulation when he successfully prosecuted the Galleon Group's insider trading. obtaining convictions of prominent members of the community Raj Rajaratnam, Anil Kumar and Raj Gupta.

The man has been considered as a possible candidate for U.S. Senator or possibly a cabinet position in a Hilary Clinton presidency. His career will interesting to watch now.

[jackr]

People always knock America and sometimes with reason but I am proud to be an American. Land of the free and home of the brave. Trying to do the right thing to help the weak and defenseless. That's what makes us great !

Dear me.

To be fair, though, India does tend to go off tangent. UK still gives it something like 2 billion a year and all they do is whine.

[indyuk]

I don't know all the details of this case

She wasn't a diplomat at the time of arrest, she was a consulate employee. Therefore no diplomatic immunity at the time of arrest.

India gave her diplomatic status after the arrest hoping to retroactively shield her from prosecution.

Yeah, that's an important detail.

Doesn't change my opinion that this wasn't worth it.

Prosecutors aren't legally obligated to pursue convictions on all cases, you know?

Probably didn't predict the blowback on this. Maybe they SHOULD have?

India is misbehaving. They are acting like spoilt brats instead of stating their diplomat or whatever should abide by laws.

Then they would look more reasonable and official and then they could go behind the scenes to quash this if needed.

Now all they look is stupid and foolish on the world stage.

Its a case of ..we will do what we want or we will throw a tantrum.

I think India needs the USA more than the USA needs india

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That's what Russia thought until India kicked them out lock stock and barrel.