UK Family visa - the frequent and successive visits rule

[neilscolt]

My wife is about to apply for a family visit visa to the UK, she was successful in obtaining a family visit visa in 2007, 08, 09, 10 and 2013, each time she stayed for six months. In 2013 we left Thailand 1st April and returned Sept 18th, effectively we both did 6 months in the UK and six months in Thailand. Having just read the family visa information on the UKBA website, i am beginning to wonder whether we will fall foul of the following rule which is a bit vague and seems open to interpretation, how do yo show that you do not intend to do the below?

You must also be able to show that, during your visit, you do not intend to:

live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits;

Are the above visits counted as extended or frequent, even though there was at least a 6 month break and a two year gap between 2010 and 2013. On all occasions my wife returned to Thailand before her visa expired, my wife has no interest in getting a settlement visa, as she has family resident in Thailand and even if she wanted we do not meet the financial requirements.

Any constructive comments great fully received.

Neil

[7by7]

There is no rule saying how long a visitor may and may not spend in the UK; other than that which says they cannot spend more than 6 months per visit (with some exceptions).

However, the convention is that a visitor should not spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK.

As your wife left the UK in September 2013 after spending 6 months there, my feeling is that any application by her made before April 2014, 6 months after she left, is likely to fall foul of this convention and be refused.

Particularly as the ECOs, in Bangkok at least, seem to be strict, too strict at times, in applying it of late. UK visa "6 in 12" rule. Have the goalposts moved ?

As your wife has a record of successful UK visit applications where she has complied with the conditions going back to 2007 and as you and she live together in Thailand and make regular trips to the UK, have you considered a longer term visit visa? She could still only spend a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit and would still be subject to the '6 in 12' convention; but it would save applying for a new visa every time.

VAT1.4 Visa validity - What period for a multiple entry visit visa?

[theoldgit]

Assuming you and your wife both live together in Thailand, it really shouldn't be an issue.

If you live in the UK and your wife in Thailand and she visits you for six months every year or so, she is acting within the rules but the ECO might argue that she is using a visit visa to circumnavigate the settlement route.

[Tony M]

As said by 7x7 above, there is an earlier thread on this. I am now aware of 3 family visit visa refusals, all for applicants who have done exactly what you intend to do. In 2 of those refusals, the ECO's decisions were overturned. It seems that ECOs are trying to refuse applications which would have been issued before the last changes to the immigration rules, and this is not really within the spirit of the rules. It certainly isn't within the legal boundaries of the rules.

If your application is refused, then please feel free to contact me by PM.

[neilscolt]

Many thanks for the prompt replies and others which will no doubt come, still no clearer, think we will give it try and see what happens. She did think of giving the UK a miss this year anyway, maybe someone else will make that decision for us now, I will keep you all posted.

Would a visa refusal, effect future applications?

[7by7]

Only if the reasons for the refusal still applied when she made that future application.

[Hugh Jarse]

As said by 7x7 above, there is an earlier thread on this. I am now aware of 3 family visit visa refusals, all for applicants who have done exactly what you intend to do. In 2 of those refusals, the ECO's decisions were overturned. It seems that ECOs are trying to refuse applications which would have been issued before the last changes to the immigration rules, and this is not really within the spirit of the rules. It certainly isn't within the legal boundaries of the rules.

If your application is refused, then please feel free to contact me by PM.

A major problem is seemingly that ECO's in Bangkok since at least the 1990's have an elementary understanding of Immigration law and the new regulations. How many ECO's are top class graduates, I wonder and how many have law degrees which would help them understand this complex area of law. Could it be that many of their decisions are wrong because they recieve poor supervision from their line managers who are themselves also inundated with the problem of meeting targets for entry into the UK. Wrong decisions by ECO's have a detrimental and sometimes ruinous effect on peoples lives; people who do not always have influence nor money to pay for and fight injustice . People holding EEC passports do not have to go through this monkey business, as the basic human right of family unity is paramount.

[7by7]

I do not know the level of education required to become an ECO, nor the training they receive, but there are at least three members of this forum who are ex ECOs and devote a great deal of their time offering free advice to members. I'm sure that they appreciate your comments about them and their competence!

Whilst this current government has set an overall target to reduce net immigration, there are no targets or quotas for any visa category except some applications under Tier 1 of the PBS.

EEC? What's that? European Economic Community? That hasn't existed since 1993, and even when it did exist it didn't issue passports.

The European Union, which replaced the EEC, doesn't issue passports.

Ditto for the European Economic Area.

The EEA freedom of movement regulations do not apply when the non EEA family member of an EEA national wants to enter the country of which the EEA national is a citizen. Which means, for example, the Thai wife of a Frenchman can use these regulations to enter the UK, but to enter France would have to apply under and satisfy the requirements of the French immigration rules.

As this topic is about visit visas, I fail to see what human rights have to do with it.

Apart from all that; good post!

[ThaiVisaExpress]

My recent experience is you may have issues with your application, but keeps us informed.

[neilscolt]

The wife collected her passport yesterday, and despite feeling pessimistic about her chances of getting a family visit visa due to the frequent and successive rule/guidelines, we were pleasantly surprised to find her application was successful. It may be that the 6 in 12 rule/guidelines were applied and she just sneaked under it by 7 days.

A few things which may help others when submitting applications;

The application form must be filled in online and paid for online before an appointment can be made

We did not get any documents translated into Thai

We submitted originals for everything at VFS which were returned to us when the application was submitted

We were very tight on the paperwork and kept things to a the essentials

We were honest in the application and kept no secrets

The photos we had taken at the local photo shop were fine, the embassy even returned the submitted photo

The embassy kept a sponsor letter from me, copy of my passport ID page, letter from my employee with accommodation details (as accommodation is included with my job), copy of wedding certificate and copies of my wifes bank books, my bank statements and payslips were returned despite saying on the application that i would pay for everything. All other copies of documents were returned to us with the passport.

You can only book an appointment at regents house, up to five days in advance

You will receive an email from the embassy telling you the application has been processed, but not the outcome. They will tell you that you can collect the passport after two working days from VFS, but if you contact VFS after 11am the next day it will probably be ready for collection within 24 hours

The application took 7 working days to process

VFS seemed to have really improved their services, professional, promptly answering phone and email queries.

Hope the above helps others going through this process, if any one needs any more info feel free to PM me