Thai Army strongly slams Thaksin’s lawyer, Robert Amsterdam

[Skywalker69]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

Just for the record he was voted in by winning the majority of the voters, sort of thing that happens in Europe and USA, now an example of what a dictator is take a look at North Korea.

Can really never be the place of the army to take this role. Obviously paving the way for a true dictator.

noun

• a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.

Just for the record. Buying your way to become PM has nothing to do with democracy.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

Why is it that people think Thaksin is the only corrupt politician in Thailand?

Just for the record. Buying your way to become PM has nothing to do with democracy.

Did you bother to watch the video?

[geriatrickid]

I'd say he's a realist and doesn't look at Thai politics through the lens of western governments.

Well, if one looks at it through the lens of an oppressive totalitarian state such as Zimbabwe or Belarus, then yes, I can see your point.

Nice try. Even you know that comparison is laughable.

Really? Have you considered the current case of a RTN captain pursuing the editor and journalist of Phuketwan for their use of an AFP article on the Rohingya crisis? Please tell me of another civilized country where the armed forces launch a legal attack on journalists in this manner? There was no threat to national security involved. The navy captain in this case simply disapproved of the information printed. This event speaks volumes about the Thai military's respect for basic human rights. Mistakes can happen and people can over step their authority, but no one from the military command has intervened and instead the threats and intimidation continue. It seems no one in the military consulted with the civilian government in this matter. So tell me now why the comparison is laughable, because the major journalism bodies and human rights groups are not laughing.

Edited January 11, 2014 by geriatrickid

[daboyz1]

The police report to Thaksin's clones. That's why they stood by and did nothing in 2010. That's why it took the army to clean up that mess. I agree the army shouldn't be involved in those types of situations, but what can you do when the police refuse to do their job?

Really? Have you considered that the police have never received the training necessary to do what you would want. They do not have the equipment either. There is a reason why some parties wish to keep the police as unprofessional as possible. A functioning and reliable civilian law enforcement body would present a trheat to the military who have always used the excuse that only the military can keep order.

Yes, really. Would some of those parties include Thaksin? Being a former policeman himself, I'd think in all those years running the country he'd make the police one of his priorities. Maybe training them that suspected drug dealers deserve their day in court, rather than simply killing them without due process.

[GentlemanJim]

The colonel said this lawyer will be considered an undesirable person for the country, he said.

Since when is it the decision of an army to consider someone an undesirable person?

Since they have larger guns than he does.

The one with the biggest gun can decide whoever they want is undesirable

Edited January 11, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[daboyz1]

Really? Have you considered the current case of a RTN captain pursuing the editor and journalist of Phuketwan for their use of an AFP article on the Rohingya crisis? Please tell me of another civilized country where the armed forces launch a legal attack on journalists in this manner? There was no threat to national security involved. The navy captain in this case simply disapproved of the information printed. This event speaks volumes about the Thai military's respect for basic human rights. Mistakes can happen and people can over step their authority, but no one from the military command has intervened and instead the threats and intimidation continue. It seems no one in the military consulted with the civilian government in this matter. So tell me now why the comparison is laughable, because the major journalism bodies and human rights groups are not laughing.

So based on that one case you're willing to compare Thailand to Zimbabwe or Belarus? Thailand has a long way to go before being put in the same class as those two countries.

[daboyz1]

In fact, I would thank the military for not allowing Thaksin to become a dictator like Mugabe or Lukashenko. Without the military Thailand would've surely become a dictatorship run by Thaksin the great. Not that he hasn't tried at every chance he got.

[Roadman]

Prayuth says jump and YS say how high. That's: what matters here. Ignore what this Amsterdam says. Is that really his surname?, must be a Yank.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Correct. That's the way it is and will be until these scummy politicians and criminal fugitives like Thaksin and his equally scummy brought mouth piece lawyer can learn to abide by democratic law and the constitution.

[tilac2]

This phrase in Amsterdam's article is very perceptive: "The result of this military-inspired process of coups, massacres and inaction is that Thai democracy remains on thin, ill-formed ice, ready to crack and unable to sustain the struggles and debates associated with a healthy body politic."

It's worth adding that this process has been going on for about 80 years - election, coup, election, coup - with a cycle of around 4 or 5 years. Thailand's 'democracy' is thus only a partial democracy, because if a government is elected and does too much that THEY don't want to be done, that government will get booted out.

This has had a corrosive effect on both sides of the political divide. For the Right it means that their parties don't have to try too hard to get elected because they know that if the leftish elected government does anything unpopular with THEM, that government will not be around for long. For the Left it means that, when elected, they tend to take hasty action (in their brief window of opportunity!), action that might not have gone through the process of parliamentary discussion and scrutiny that a serious opposition should provide. Thus both sides lose, and there is little sense of responsibility (because MPs are literally not ultimately responsible for ruling), and long-term progress suffers.

Will this change? Maybe not. There seems to be a feeling that Thai people and their elected representatives must "always keep a hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse" (as Hilaire Belloc wrote). But maybe if you always keep a hold of nurse, you'll never grow up.

[473geo]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

Please highlight what part of Amsterdams article was factually incorrect so we can all discuss

difficult, just like highlighting what is factual correct. Clever lawyers are like that. Some can even make you wonder whether you really saw what you saw.

I guess for confirmation and peace of mind, check for sawdust

Edited January 11, 2014 by 473geo

[stickyrice2000]

The army deserves to be criticized. They do very little to help calm the situation. Keep staying in the cave and avoid your duty.

[daboyz1]

Prayuth says jump and YS say how high. That's: what matters here. Ignore what this Amsterdam says. Is that really his surname?, must be a Yank.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Correct. That's the way it is and will be until these scummy politicians and criminal fugitives like Thaksin and his equally scummy brought mouth piece lawyer can learn to abide by democratic law and the constitution.

I consider the coup in 2006 different from previous coups in the sense that the guy running the country wasn't legally elected. So in reality they weren't overthrowing some elected govt. They had elections, the opposition boycotted them. Alot of the seats were won with minority votes when the "No" votes outnumbered the TRT votes. The election results were never royally endorsed etc. etc. Thaksin knew he was going to get found guilty in the upcoming months/years of corruption.

[Roadman]

The army deserves to be criticized. They do very little to help calm the situation. Keep staying in the cave and avoid your duty.

Correct. The Army does deserve to be criticised. But here's the stupidity of all the criticism. Its coming from and being supported by people who are equally or more worthy of criticism. The Army are not above criticism but it is rich when it is coming from those who think the only requirement for democracy is an election and then beyond that screw over the law, the constitution and all their checks and balances. And that applies equally to all politicians in Thailand including the gutless criminal convicted ones hiding in Dubai.

[seajae]

Just goes to show what they say about lawyers is true, they are full of shit and will do and say anything if you pay them enough. Guess thaksins retainer is pretty big................

[phantomfiddler]

I have a feeling that in the very near future everyone will be glad that there is an army who can step in and restore whatever peace is possible while the man from Dubai still seeks to be emperor.

[Tywais]

Flame removed. Keep it civil guys.

[Cnxforever]

It is not Amsterdam who is narrow minded with a hidden agenda - it is the Thai armed forces who are the biggest hindrance for real democracy in Thailand. The army chief should have been removed a long time ago and replaced by a professional soldier - if there is such a thing in Thailand.

No one is actually surprised that you are wholeheartedly endorsing a proven liar and accept lies and propaganda as truth. That speaks volumes about your own character.

Anyway it appears that you don't understand how Thai political system works. It's a constitutional monarchy. So the priorities are different. When soldiers take oath they swear to protect the independence and the sovereignty of the state, the security of the monarchy, national interests, and government administration under a democratic regime with the King as Head of State. So you'd better pay more attention to wording of the oath and the order of priorities.

yes sure hahaha....but you are surely not talking about the Thai army here!

Or better their leadership!

The single most corrupt entity in this country - they have been robbing the country blind since they exist! The leadership has only two priorities - to fill their deep pockets and protect the way of life for the corrupt elite.

You must be new to Thailand - you know what an oath means in this country? It is not worth the paper it is written on!

They are a business enterprise using tax payers money for personal gain - not accountable to anybody.Or why do you think they have billions in "secret military funds" which can not be scrutinized?

Why not have the armed forces leadership personal wealth declared - oh I forgot they will not do that - because nobody will force them to!

The glorious army with the most generals in the world - has been fighting mostly their own people in the last 50 years! If they encounter an enemy who fights back they don't look so good!

Nothing annoys the Thaksin cheerleader club more than the army not putting themselves in Thaksin's pocket as per the police. The judiciary as well won't bend over.

what has this got to do with Thaksin? - The army was as corrupt as it is - long before - during - and after Thaksin. They killed Thai people since the 30s - during the 70s, 80 s 90 s and until recently - it does not matter who is in government.

I would love to see any civilized country where the army kills almost 90 protestors by suffocating them - and NOBODY is held accountable! The officer in charge was later promoted!

The larger part of the armed forces leadership is arrogant, power hungry and corrupt - a waste of tax payers money.

Any laws passed after a coup by them should be void and their self proclaimed amnesties canceled - they should be arrested and tried for treason - already having their replacements ready to take over the reign immediately during their arrest.

The Thai armed forces should be reduced to 1/3 of their size and turned into a modern professional army with professional leadership.

As long as this bunch of children is around playing their games this country can never progress!

[Mackie]

Cnxforever, on 11 Jan 2014 - 21:24, said:

what has this got to do with Thaksin? - The army was as corrupt as it is - long before - during - and after Thaksin. They killed Thai people since the 30s - during the 70s, 80 s 90 s and until recently - it does not matter who is in government.

I would love to see any civilized country where the army kills almost 90 protestors by suffocating them - and NOBODY is held accountable! The officer in charge was later promoted!

The larger part of the armed forces leadership is arrogant, power hungry and corrupt - a waste of tax payers money.

Any laws passed after a coup by them should be void and their self proclaimed amnesties canceled - they should be arrested and tried for treason - already having their replacements ready to take over the reign immediately during their arrest.

The Thai armed forces should be reduced to 1/3 of their size and turned into a modern professional army with professional leadership.

As long as this bunch of children is around playing their games this country can never progress!

That's outright silly. Only Thais can decide about their own army. As things stand, and you repeatedly fail to understand that, their first duty is to secure and protect the institution we cannot discuss here. I fully support them in doing so. It's Thai tradition, it's Thai cultural heritage and it is up to them how they are going to go about it. Anyone in Thailand knows that the most corrupted organization in the country is Thai Police. Even school kids know that. Thai Army lags far behind.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Mackie

[LiveInHope]

It's irrelevant what Amsterdam said. The creepy thing about this story is that army asserts the power to label people as undesirable person based on their speech.

They could easily apply that power to this forum in that case ...... !!!

[englishoak]

Dos'nt matter who the guy is, we all know he is 100% spot on about the army, roll on true freedom and true democracy.... when all the sad outdated old guard are eventually dead, perhaps then.

Until then i dont care who exposes this place for what it really is, truth hurts and it dosnt matter who tells it, the point is it is 100% accurate

[dukebowling]

Just for the record. Buying your way to become PM has nothing to do with democracy.

Why is it that people think Thaksin is the only corrupt politician in Thailand?

Just for the record. Buying your way to become PM has nothing to do with democracy.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

Did you bother to watch the video?

Good video, but nothing illegal shown there. Paying for an audience is not a crime. Typical Politician.

As long as it does legally within the framework of the government, then it is democratic.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. If you don't like the rules, then push to have them changed.

[dukebowling]

@ianf

Chee Soon Juan? Surely a worthy client? You really do side with the lunatic rightist fringe

The evidence is there for all to see my dear boy. I have only posted facts. Facts. Not guesswork.

Another example of lunacy from Amsterdam:

He Tweets:

"General Prayuth - if any coup is staged Thai Army Chiefs will be held personally responsible under international law."

He does not state which "international laws" stop a nation's military from intervening in violence carried out by an illegitimate regime which is openly run by a convicted criminal hiding abroad.

Running a regime in this way is Right Wing - if there ever was a definition of Right Wing, this is it.

If you see my previous posts you will note that I have quoted Hitler's Mein Kamp to show just how much of Hitler's ideology is used by Thaksin, Amsterdam et al.

But I do realise that you cannot argue with ideologists even when the truth stares them in the face.

The military are not competent to govern a nation state. The purpose of the military is to pursue the objectives of the nation state as determined by its government. In Thailand the government is elected by the people in accordance to the constitution. Where in the constitution does it state that the military has the right to conduct a military mutiny, i.e., a coup d'état? Where in the UN Charter or in any document or convention of International Law does it state that a military mutiny is a lawful and a justifiable action?

A Putsch is a sudden and decisive change of government illegally or by force and that is what Suthep and his mobs unlawfully demand.

Where in the constitution does is state that the military is obliged to stand by whilst a corrupt government strips the nation of all its assets?

Section 68.

No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of the State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution.

[charmonman]

Rather than being "neutral", Mr. Amsterdam would prefer that the army intervene on the side of his corrupt and autocratic client. He is nothing but a hypocrite.

[peecee]

The colonel said this lawyer will be considered an undesirable person for the country, he said.

Since when is it the decision of an army to consider someone an undesirable person?

Since @ the 1930's!

[peecee]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

Just for the record he was voted in by winning the majority of the voters, sort of thing that happens in Europe and USA, now an example of what a dictator is take a look at North Korea.

Can really never be the place of the army to take this role. Obviously paving the way for a true dictator.

noun

• a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.

Just for the record. Buying your way to become PM has nothing to do with democracy.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

I often wonder how people know who voted for who in a secret ballot?

I'd take the money and still make my own decision.

Is that too simplistic?

[Skywalker69]

Since when was it amsterdams place to blast the Thai army.

Oh yes, he is Thaksins mouthpiece so he is talking for the convicted crim.

How dare the army attempt to prevent the chosen one from returning to claim his rightful place as the dictator.

Just for the record he was voted in by winning the majority of the voters, sort of thing that happens in Europe and USA, now an example of what a dictator is take a look at North Korea.

Can really never be the place of the army to take this role. Obviously paving the way for a true dictator.

noun

• 
  a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.
  

Just for the record. Buying your way to become PM has nothing to do with democracy.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power.

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

I often wonder how people know who voted for who in a secret ballot?

I'd take the money and still make my own decision.

Is that too simplistic?

Yes, look att the video from 06,24.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[peecee]

In fact, I would thank the military for not allowing Thaksin to become a dictator like Mugabe or Lukashenko. Without the military Thailand would've surely become a dictatorship run by Thaksin the great. Not that he hasn't tried at every chance he got.

If he had lost an election & refused to relinquish power one might have to believe you.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the reply to it, plus a post violating copyright.

[daboyz1]

In fact, I would thank the military for not allowing Thaksin to become a dictator like Mugabe or Lukashenko. Without the military Thailand would've surely become a dictatorship run by Thaksin the great. Not that he hasn't tried at every chance he got.

If he had lost an election & refused to relinquish power one might have to believe you.

Glad you brought that up. He didn't lose an election, but he wasn't elected either. He dissolved parliament in 2006 and then the subsequent election was ruled invalid. Also, the 2006 election never received royal endorsement. So Thaksin figured he'd call another election later. All the while remaining in the PMs office as an illegitimate PM refusing to relinquish power. The army had a coup and then called elections a year later. The party he controlled (PPP) won those elections. So Thaksin isn't this shining light of democracy that some around here would have you believe. People that have clean hands don't get their surrogates to pass amnesty bills that benefit themselves at 4 AM while everyone is sleeping.

[michaeljordan]

Thank You Webfact for this story.

I went onto read it from the source but your post was completely accurate as always.

"In response to call by democratically-elected Thai government for help, he said, the Thai Army routinely go missing.

On the Army’s neutral role to the current political crisis, Amsterdam said “Of course, “neutral” in the Thai context, means that you tacitly and explicitly accept anti-democratic forces as a given, natural part of the political discourse. Neutrality in this instance is a non-existent opportunistic chimera created purely to divert a proper analysis of the real conditions within which the Thai Army operate.”

He went on saying “what is clear is that until the Thai Army is brought under lawful, accountable, democratic and civilian control it will act as a force hindering Thailand’s struggling – yet burgeoning – democracy;

I have this to add myself

The only question is when will the international community and the west in particularly, hit Thailand ruling class with trade sanctions that will unfortunately hurt all of Thailand. The President of the USA is being pressed by the PM of the UK to support these trade sanctions. I am afraid that life here for people from the west or for that matter, any other nation, will not be livable in Bangkok should sanctions occur. Thailand would go into a strong anti fa rang mode. Yet, Live in the North and Northeast would still be alright for Fa rang.

We know what happened in Myanmar when the military refused to allow democracy.

PS---the media to the north is completely different than in Bangkok. The nation has split.

[mikemac]

I presume you are from New Zealand. Setting aside the obvious lack of balance in your post here, I wonder: would you be happy if the NZ army considered itself unaccountable to the government in your home country? Would you consider NZ a democracy if the army could pick and choose which government it took orders from, according to its political colour?

If this doesn't help you to acquire more perspective, here are some tips:

1. Take a deep breath (perhaps meditate for a while)

2. Forget the demon Thaksin and the (possibly in your eyes) saintly Suthep for a moment.

3. Remember 2010, when the army felt free to take orders from the then-coalition government (with saintly Suthep as deputy PM) and subsequent evidence showed it as close to certain that their bullets killed many of the 90 protesters.

4. Imagine how the families of the 2010 dead will feel if the current protests turn ugly and the army stages a coup (it didn't in 2010, did it?)

4. Open your eyes and ask: have I acquired more perspective? Have I begun to see that there are indeed two sides to this?

Failing that, have another rant and stay amongst the rank and file red/yellow, whose stance appears to be: 'la la la la la not listening I'm right and you're wrong la la la la'.

Time to wind up the cuckoo clock !............................cuckoo...cuckoo...cuckoo...........

If Thailand had not been affected by ruthless, self serving, corrupt and criminal regimes like the Shinawatras, there would be no coups to speak of over the years. In recent times the Shin gang has been the common denominator in all Thailand's major problems, the Army are protecting and serving the Thai people by eradicating these "undesirables". If there is another coup I only hope they do the job properly this time and banish the lot of them to Dubai. Perhaps then the country will have a fair chance of rebuilding an honest and fair democracy.