Suthep rejects proposed talk on election postponement

[spidermike007]

First of all it appears he has a limited amount of intellectual capability and power to work with. Secondarily, he does not appear to be a creative man. So, he has backed himself into a corner with his win or nothing rhetoric. Nowhere to go from there. And the democrats have not won an election in 20 years of so, so they have zero chances of winning should an election be held. So, he feels his only option is a fascist takeover, without an election, and he will then appoint his personal (peoples) council to run the country, with of course him as the de facto ruler.

[ggold]

I was only pointing out that if the protests were successful they would not be throwing an elected government out of office, even though they were elected prior to dissolution! I did notice how they got elected, I also noticed what they have done as a government, and what lead to the dissolution of government.

It also interesting to note that a peaceful demonstration is characterised as a mob, rather than a group of people practising their democratic right to protest. And yes I had noticed why they are protesting!

Of course demonstrating isn't the only democratic rights people can practice. Another one is voting, and yet another one is running for office. Yet the protestors seemed hell bent on denying people the right to run for office. That isn't peaceful by any stretch of the imagination. These people seem to believe their democratic rights are more important than those of others. That is something any true democrat could never support.

While Suthep is calling for an interim peoples council to replace Yingluck. It is to allow time for all parties to debate and amend the constitution so that corrupt politicians cannot control government without the checks and balances that PTP tried to remove. Once that is achieved Elections would be held. Suthep is even on record as saying he will not stand for re election!

So all this BS about peoples rights being usurped by others is pathetic. Because if PTP had their way no one would have any rights once they had complete control.

Are you denying the protestors did try to prevent people from registering for the upcoming elections ? It isn't BS, but verifiable facts.

Why does Suthep holds the government accountable for an alleged breach of the constitution, yet his plans are a clear violation of the same constitution. Suddenly the constitution doesn't apply to his actions. If he wants reform, he needs to run for office and gather enough electoral support, nothing more and nothing less.

If he wants reform, he needs to run for office and gather enough electoral support, nothing more and nothing less.

and if the 45% of the population want reform should they stand for election as well?

Why does Suthep holds the government accountable for an alleged breach of the constitution, yet his plans are a clear violation of the same constitution.

Maybe because PTP have already been unconstitutional, and that the constitution if it is re written is better done through national consensus rather than PTP trying to run roughshod over the constitution and legal processes for their own ends.

Democracy for democracy's sake is not democracy. Both sides claim to be democratic yet it is obviously not true! Suthep if he is being honest with the people, may actually be in a position of changing the way politics is conducted here in Thailand. Rather than this cycle of coups every few years.

he isn't putting himself in line for the caretaker PM should Yingluck be kicked out. IMO what he is trying to do is more democratic than what this caretaker government is doing or has done while in office!

[JHenry]

The protest numbers are small. The crowds are just not large enough. Look at the pictures, visit the protest sites (if you do not sit under the blanket with the stock of food for 2 months). I do not see how Suthep is going to achieve what he wants. Actually, the postponed elections was a good chance to save face.

Henry, numbers don't matter, Suthep has already achieved his objectives, he has shut down Bangkok without incident. While the military provide security, BMA provides logistics and the government remains paralysed he can keep it closed with a skeleton crew til the election.

Well being here in central Bangkok I can tell you that the city is not shutdown, shops are open, traffic is still flowing and the vast majority of businesses continue to trade.

According to Suthep he has yet to achieve his objectives of removing Yingluck from her premiership and installing a "peoples council"

The military and police are both conspicuous by their absence.

The caretaker Governments policy of non confrontation and continuing offers of dialogue present them as moderate, conciliatory and will only increase their legitimacy in the eyes of many.

I fear that Sutheps may have missed an opportunity to join negotiations.

His constant refusal to negotiate and compromise maybe seen in a similar light as the red shirts rebuttal of Abisihts offer to dissolve parliament and hold elections back in 2010 by the vast majority.

Well its certainly closed for Yingluck and her government.

What exactly is closed for Yingluck and her government?

[kingstonkid]

Eventually both sides will have to talk. Nothing wrong in setting a new election date later. The dems then have to work hard. They must beat the reds on their home ground, in the north. Suthep should go meet the other side and negotiate an election date. Then step back and let others make strategy.

When they do the job well it should be easy for the voters in the north to see what the shinaclan really is about: pillaging and plundering on a scale comparable with the old war with the burmese, when Ayutthaya was burnt.

You're absolutely right but I'm afraid that the voters in the North have been aware for years how the Bangkok elite has been plundering the resources of the country. Now that they want their piece of the cake, Bangkok isn't happy and wants to pretend that it is Thailand. Unfortunately, although the high rise hairdos and stiff-necked Dems will tell you of the poor education in the provinces (which in the past has benefitted them by providing them with a passive populous who voted against their own interests) the rural populous to the north and north east are not as stupid as Bangkok thinks. Because now they understand the power of their vote, they will never again give it to the patronising bigots who are still deluded enough to think they can keep things firmly stuck in the 1960s.

This is why getting rid of the Shinawatras (however nice that will be) will make no difference to the Dems & their ilk long term. Though Thaksin courted the rural vote for selfish purposes, he has changed the country and there's no going back.

The future of this country will no longer be decided by the minority in Bangkok.

Thank you! Could not have said it better!

I concur you have stated it well. My only addition would be that any talks have t include the military generals as the convener as well as the chair. The people that are protesting in the country including doctors and farmers as wel as those protesting adn fighting int he south should all be given a chance to be heard by a group that include equal representation by all people not just the PT/UDD and DEMS/PDRC

[northernjohn]

No surrender you can't negotiate withl a scorpion or snake

Well done Suphet. Notice difference between red shirt thugs in 2010 and this protest. So fat totally peaceful no burnings no guns with protestors just a very large group of determined people who are totally sick and tired of Taksin and his lot just doing whatever they want.

I never thought Suphet it stood a chance but whatever Taksin supporters here say just going by crowds he obviously has massive support. And before we get a barrage of BS about elected government democracy elections and rest it is obvious to anyone not blind that Taksin and his vile government are not wanted by a very large section of Thais of all walks of life.

To hold an election on 2^nd feb is pointless and will achieve nothing. It would not even result in a government even if Taksin got 100% of vote since os many wont vote and their cant be enough MPs anyway. Even if Taksin managed to disregard rules again and try ot form a parliament it simply would not be accepted by so many it oculd not function and Army will not intervene.

So only way pout is for Yingluk to resign and a interim new caretaker government not linked to Taksin take over for a few months while reforms are put in place. Then have an election without Taksin (or it simply wont work) and most would accept a voted government even one most red shirts would want provided Taksin was not involved.

The only other way out is an army coup or Taksin pays enough to start a real civil war which in his desperation he could well try however I dont think that will work and I cant see cowardly reds supporting in enough numbers and so hell have to rely on paid mercenaries.

Before Taksin tries to turn Thailand into a sort of Syria he should but wont do decent thing for sake of Thailand. Being vile coward he is and fact all he cares for is his own then that is not going to happen.

The only real solution to this is a coup. suthep does not want that either as he could not then start his dictatorship. suthep has lied too many times to all of you and you can not see it. When he was in the government he was just as corrupted as them all. You all need to wake up. If you want a dictatorship stay with him. If you want a democracy go else where.

In order for him to become a dictator he would need the backing of the army. He hasn't got that. In order for him to be Democratically elected he would need to be heading a party there is no such party.

He is just one man followed by millions of other single individuals with as is to be expected a number of them physically being able to support him. The cause he is leading is a desire to take a corrupt Democratically elected government out of power [if you can call a corrupt government democratic] and replace it with a democratically led government that is for the people not just one family.

In a Democracy is not the governments job to serve the people? Not one family.

What Thailand has now is a Democratic dictatorship. That is not what the constitution calls for. Granted there needs to be some changes in the constitution but changes to allow a democratically elected dictator are not one of them. Thailand is not some backward banana operated country. It is a country with a tremendous future provided it deals with the corruption that is its present guidelines. The changes must start with a completely non political review of the election laws. Only then will the people have a chance for an honest Democratically elected government.

I see no honest reason to oppose that idea. To oppose it means to continue to allow vote buying access to many votes in order to replace them with other votes. Also to continue to allow promises that are unattainable. Why would any one oppose these goals.

[SICHONSTEVE]

No surrender you can't negotiate withl a scorpion or snake

Well done Suphet. Notice difference between red shirt thugs in 2010 and this protest. So fat totally peaceful no burnings no guns with protestors just a very large group of determined people who are totally sick and tired of Taksin and his lot just doing whatever they want.

I never thought Suphet it stood a chance but whatever Taksin supporters here say just going by crowds he obviously has massive support. And before we get a barrage of BS about elected government democracy elections and rest it is obvious to anyone not blind that Taksin and his vile government are not wanted by a very large section of Thais of all walks of life.

To hold an election on 2^nd feb is pointless and will achieve nothing. It would not even result in a government even if Taksin got 100% of vote since os many wont vote and their cant be enough MPs anyway. Even if Taksin managed to disregard rules again and try ot form a parliament it simply would not be accepted by so many it oculd not function and Army will not intervene.

So only way pout is for Yingluk to resign and a interim new caretaker government not linked to Taksin take over for a few months while reforms are put in place. Then have an election without Taksin (or it simply wont work) and most would accept a voted government even one most red shirts would want provided Taksin was not involved.

The only other way out is an army coup or Taksin pays enough to start a real civil war which in his desperation he could well try however I dont think that will work and I cant see cowardly reds supporting in enough numbers and so hell have to rely on paid mercenaries.

Before Taksin tries to turn Thailand into a sort of Syria he should but wont do decent thing for sake of Thailand. Being vile coward he is and fact all he cares for is his own then that is not going to happen.

I hope they do hold the election as it will be meaningless and Yingluck will waste another 3.8 billion baht that could have gone towards paying the farmers for their rice!!

Edited January 14, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[aimbc]

The protest numbers are small. The crowds are just not large enough. Look at the pictures, visit the protest sites (if you do not sit under the blanket with the stock of food for 2 months). I do not see how Suthep is going to achieve what he wants. Actually, the postponed elections was a good chance to save face.

Henry, numbers don't matter, Suthep has already achieved his objectives, he has shut down Bangkok without incident. While the military provide security, BMA provides logistics and the government remains paralysed he can keep it closed with a skeleton crew til the election.

Numbers matter and he knows it. Otherwise it means that anybody with 20,000 supporters can do whatever he/she wants in the capital of Thailand. This applies to Suthep if he comes to power. And by the way he did not shut down Bangkok. Life goes on. There will be routes around the 7 sites and lots of traffic that is about it.

He sure did accomplish is objective. To be in 7 major points at once is unheard of. And you are right, 20,000 won't be able to achieve what the protesters have done. But more than a million made it happen!

Edited January 14, 2014 by aimbc

[aimbc]

Let me remind all you farang posters. Some of us are here for several reasons. We all came from a country far away. We also have an option to go back as well. So what ever may happen to Thailand, we all still have a home elsewhere.

But for most Thais, do not have that option. Nor do they wish to go to another country. They want to make this home a home. Everyone here sees the corruption that this government has done and the blatant abuse that is going on. They see that the country is borrowing at an alarming rate. They see corruption as coming worst and worst. I am not saying it only happens with this government, but others as well. I think corruption has reached a point where corrupt people are stealing from corrupt people. And this will hurt future generations. The younger generations who are innocent and have no voice in the matter. Corruption has gotten so bad, that the govt. need a budget for corruption. Because if we allow the government to keep borrowing and not try to keep budget under control, we have just doomed the next generation. We are the caretaker of the next generation. No one in their right mind, knowing what this government has done can just stand idle so that the future generation will suffer because of our uncaring stance about protecting democracy for them. We enjoy today because others have protected us, now it's our turn to protect the future.

[bkksteviejai]

I would recommend that YS resign. At least she will have some dignity left. The more this government try to strong arm the citizens, the more they are hated. Remember, this movement is not about party lines. it is going to be something that most countries facing a corrupt government can never do, but want to do. The world is definitely watching.

Don't you think their is a reason the police aren't anywhere near the protest sites, this lot are being babied around town.....strong arm the citizens?....very far from it. The ball is very firmly in K Sutheps court.

I'm really hoping this will be a turning point in Thai politics, with thai people saying a big NO to corruption in government and big F@*K off to Mobocracy as perpertrated by BOTH sides.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kimamey]

"....... but if there is an election then he will be in charge again undemocratically.

Why? Any decent political campaign manager would be wetting his pants at the thought of running a campaign against PTP with all the ammunition they'd given him. Why is the DP so cowardly and lazy that it prefers to throw its weight behind a thinly disguised coup rather than fight a winnable democratic election against a corrupt and incompetent administration?

In effectively spitting in the faces of the people whose votes they would need to win an any future election, the DP are basically signaling that they have no interest in winning fairly at the ballot box - ever. They're doing far more harm to the development of an adult democracy in Thailand than Thaksin ever has.

A good point but I don't think it's that simple.

In any country where voting takes place the majority of people will vote the same every time. It's the floating that make the difference. I get the feeling that in Thailand the number of floating voters is very small so you tend to get the same result with slightly differing numbers. Thailand is very polarised politically and there are accusations going around on both sides and with little chance of substantiating them. Those who dislike Thaksin seem to believe that he's running the country. There's no proof of this but it comes from so many sources including in the government and then there's visits by PTP members to him that there would seem to be some truth in it. I'm guessing that most pro government supporters either don't believe it and think its all lies from the Dems or don't care so they won't change their vote. They may well believe that Abhisit and Suthep ordered the army to go and kill protesters. That isn't the case but given that many posters on here don't seem aware of the ROE at the time a and continue to say they ordered the killings I'm assuming that many PTP voters are either not aware of what the rules were or even know what ROE are.

I was wondering whether here as in the UK members of the main parties sometimes vote against their own party either in government or in opposition. If they don't then it looks like they are just being controlled. I get the impression that it's very different here. My wife was very confused when I asked her if she could go to see her MP if she had a problem regardless of whether she voted for them. The impression I got was it was only possible if she were important and/or well connected.

I think you need to separate the apparent views of Suthep from those of many of the protesters. They want elections to vote for who represents them and not to have someone who wasn't elected running the country with an obsession with an amnesty.

Suthep seems to me to be good at getting people on the street. He can fire them up but don't think his plans from what I've seen will do achieve what's needed. I don't think anyone can do this in one go but hopefully these protest might start something moving amongst the more moderate people in parliament and the country.

As for the coup, Suthep may or may not want one and the same goes for the Democrats in general but I know Abhisit spoke out against the last one.

[JHenry]

Let me remind all you farang posters. Some of us are here for several reasons. We all came from a country far away. We also have an option to go back as well. So what ever may happen to Thailand, we all still have a home elsewhere.

But for most Thais, do not have that option. Nor do they wish to go to another country. They want to make this home a home. Everyone here sees the corruption that this government has done and the blatant abuse that is going on. They see that the country is borrowing at an alarming rate. They see corruption as coming worst and worst. I am not saying it only happens with this government, but others as well. I think corruption has reached a point where corrupt people are stealing from corrupt people. And this will hurt future generations. The younger generations who are innocent and have no voice in the matter. Corruption has gotten so bad, that the govt. need a budget for corruption. Because if we allow the government to keep borrowing and not try to keep budget under control, we have just doomed the next generation. We are the caretaker of the next generation. No one in their right mind, knowing what this government has done can just stand idle so that the future generation will suffer because of our uncaring stance about protecting democracy for them. We enjoy today because others have protected us, now it's our turn to protect the future.

Corruption is a pyramide. It does not matter who is on the top of the pyramide Taksin, Suthep or anybody else. You can not destroy this pyramide by sitting at the Victory monument and waving flags. Poor people see it and that is why they vote for Taksin. If you want to change it, you have to educate them and give them economic freedom and wealth. It is a very hard task which may take several generations. Perhaps Suthep is one small step to that but he has to come to his senses and start talking to the opposite side. You can not just ignore the North. Imagine that Suthep wins and Reds send another 30,000 to Bangkok and shut it down. What is he going to do? He just did the same thing himself, right ?

Edited January 14, 2014 by JHenry

[northernjohn]

"....... but if there is an election then he will be in charge again undemocratically.

Why? Any decent political campaign manager would be wetting his pants at the thought of running a campaign against PTP with all the ammunition they'd given him. Why is the DP so cowardly and lazy that it prefers to throw its weight behind a thinly disguised coup rather than fight a winnable democratic election against a corrupt and incompetent administration?

In effectively spitting in the faces of the people whose votes they would need to win an any future election, the DP are basically signaling that they have no interest in winning fairly at the ballot box - ever. They're doing far more harm to the development of an adult democracy in Thailand than Thaksin ever has.

A good point but I don't think it's that simple.

In any country where voting takes place the majority of people will vote the same every time. It's the floating that make the difference. I get the feeling that in Thailand the number of floating voters is very small so you tend to get the same result with slightly differing numbers. Thailand is very polarised politically and there are accusations going around on both sides and with little chance of substantiating them. Those who dislike Thaksin seem to believe that he's running the country. There's no proof of this but it comes from so many sources including in the government and then there's visits by PTP members to him that there would seem to be some truth in it. I'm guessing that most pro government supporters either don't believe it and think its all lies from the Dems or don't care so they won't change their vote. They may well believe that Abhisit and Suthep ordered the army to go and kill protesters. That isn't the case but given that many posters on here don't seem aware of the ROE at the time a and continue to say they ordered the killings I'm assuming that many PTP voters are either not aware of what the rules were or even know what ROE are.

I was wondering whether here as in the UK members of the main parties sometimes vote against their own party either in government or in opposition. If they don't then it looks like they are just being controlled. I get the impression that it's very different here. My wife was very confused when I asked her if she could go to see her MP if she had a problem regardless of whether she voted for them. The impression I got was it was only possible if she were important and/or well connected.

I think you need to separate the apparent views of Suthep from those of many of the protesters. They want elections to vote for who represents them and not to have someone who wasn't elected running the country with an obsession with an amnesty.

Suthep seems to me to be good at getting people on the street. He can fire them up but don't think his plans from what I've seen will do achieve what's needed. I don't think anyone can do this in one go but hopefully these protest might start something moving amongst the more moderate people in parliament and the country.

As for the coup, Suthep may or may not want one and the same goes for the Democrats in general but I know Abhisit spoke out against the last one.

Over all I tend to agree with you. I am a little less sure on the polarization as the red shirts have not done so well in by elections. I think there are more loose votes out there than in previous elections. Also take into account that out of the last 10 years Thaksin has run the government and the people who support him are still dirt poor no change in their living conditions. Well the house hold debt is higher. I believe that is a direct result of making credit available who did not have the ability to pay it back. that is not a good thing to do. plus the cost of living is getting much higher.

I have spent a little time in a village in Issan two years ago. There was no Satellite dishes as the people could not afford them. The rice scheme is crumbling around them with rice farmers not receiving the money owed them. The family operated rice farms have been quiet about the price as with a raise in their payment for the rice every thing else went up and they are facing a time when there will be no place to store the rice they grow as the government can not sell it for the price they paid for it much less even break even on the cost per ton.

I for one would like to hear from the little farmers how they are doing. I hear the government loud and clear but I don't believe them.

If they can not make public the price they are getting for the rice I for one believe it is because of the loss they are taking on it.

Suthep seems to me to be good at getting people on the street. He can fire them up but don't think his plans from what I've seen will do achieve what's needed. I don't think anyone can do this in one go but hopefully these protest might start something moving amongst the more moderate people in parliament and the country.

I agree Suthep is getting the people out and firing them up. I also agree that it is not all going to happen in just one attempt. But it is a start that was very badly needed. It may take years but it will come about as a direct result of Suthep taking the first step where no one else dared speak out. It is not my belief that he will be a part of the final step. But for sure when all is over and done with Thailand will owe him a great deal of honor. My guess is one generation.

His past like every one on Thai Visa has parts that we will never talk about. He is no different than us for the past. It is what he is doing today against the conditions that prevail in Thailand today that counts.

Edited January 14, 2014 by northernjohn

[northernjohn]

Let me remind all you farang posters. Some of us are here for several reasons. We all came from a country far away. We also have an option to go back as well. So what ever may happen to Thailand, we all still have a home elsewhere.

But for most Thais, do not have that option. Nor do they wish to go to another country. They want to make this home a home. Everyone here sees the corruption that this government has done and the blatant abuse that is going on. They see that the country is borrowing at an alarming rate. They see corruption as coming worst and worst. I am not saying it only happens with this government, but others as well. I think corruption has reached a point where corrupt people are stealing from corrupt people. And this will hurt future generations. The younger generations who are innocent and have no voice in the matter. Corruption has gotten so bad, that the govt. need a budget for corruption. Because if we allow the government to keep borrowing and not try to keep budget under control, we have just doomed the next generation. We are the caretaker of the next generation. No one in their right mind, knowing what this government has done can just stand idle so that the future generation will suffer because of our uncaring stance about protecting democracy for them. We enjoy today because others have protected us, now it's our turn to protect the future.

Corruption is a pyramide. It does not matter who is on the top of the pyramide Taksin, Suthep or anybody else. You can not destroy this pyramide by sitting at the Victory monument and waving flags. Poor people see it and that is why they vote for Taksin. If you want to change it, you have to educate them and give them economic freedom and wealth. It is a very hard task which may take several generations. Perhaps Suthep is one small step to that but he has to come to his senses and start talking to the opposite side. You can not just ignore the North. Imagine that Suthep wins and Reds send another 30,000 to Bangkok and shut it down. What is he going to do? He just did the same thing himself, right ?

I agree that Suthep must talk to the opposition.

What every one who says that is conveniently overlooking the fact that he is willing to and in fact has. He has how ever set a condition that must be met before he will talk with them again. If the opposition had a counter proposal other than let us win an election first I would love to hear it. I am quite sure well maybe a medium amount of sure that Suthep would agree to talk with them if they would allow for a election reform to be put in place before the next election.

I could be wrong on that but it would make a lot of sense to me. Then the commission or council putting the reforming propositions together would have a more clear idea of what the people want. Not that the people always want what is best for them. But it would be some guidelines that the people would have a voice in.

[bkksteviejai]

He's a busted flush. Sycophantic middle-aged "high hair-do's" thrusting 1000 baht notes into his mit does not a revolution make. He might well of started something out of which some good can come (i'd like to think so) but someone needs to reign him in. Dialogue is the ONLY way out that will avoid violence. Who wants to see more bloodshed?, surely no one who loves the country and it's figure head.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wave]

Let me remind all you farang posters. Some of us are here for several reasons. We all came from a country far away. We also have an option to go back as well. So what ever may happen to Thailand, we all still have a home elsewhere.

But for most Thais, do not have that option. Nor do they wish to go to another country. They want to make this home a home. Everyone here sees the corruption that this government has done and the blatant abuse that is going on. They see that the country is borrowing at an alarming rate. They see corruption as coming worst and worst. I am not saying it only happens with this government, but others as well. I think corruption has reached a point where corrupt people are stealing from corrupt people. And this will hurt future generations. The younger generations who are innocent and have no voice in the matter. Corruption has gotten so bad, that the govt. need a budget for corruption. Because if we allow the government to keep borrowing and not try to keep budget under control, we have just doomed the next generation. We are the caretaker of the next generation. No one in their right mind, knowing what this government has done can just stand idle so that the future generation will suffer because of our uncaring stance about protecting democracy for them. We enjoy today because others have protected us, now it's our turn to protect the future.

Corruption is a pyramide. It does not matter who is on the top of the pyramide Taksin, Suthep or anybody else. You can not destroy this pyramide by sitting at the Victory monument and waving flags. Poor people see it and that is why they vote for Taksin. If you want to change it, you have to educate them and give them economic freedom and wealth. It is a very hard task which may take several generations. Perhaps Suthep is one small step to that but he has to come to his senses and start talking to the opposite side. You can not just ignore the North. Imagine that Suthep wins and Reds send another 30,000 to Bangkok and shut it down. What is he going to do? He just did the same thing himself, right ?

I agree that Suthep must talk to the opposition.

What every one who says that is conveniently overlooking the fact that he is willing to and in fact has. He has how ever set a condition that must be met before he will talk with them again. If the opposition had a counter proposal other than let us win an election first I would love to hear it. I am quite sure well maybe a medium amount of sure that Suthep would agree to talk with them if they would allow for a election reform to be put in place before the next election.

I could be wrong on that but it would make a lot of sense to me. Then the commission or council putting the reforming propositions together would have a more clear idea of what the people want. Not that the people always want what is best for them. But it would be some guidelines that the people would have a voice in.

I think that Suthep has to show that he is willing to compromise if he is going to have any legitimacy beyond his core supporters.

So far he has made no moves to adjust his position and it's a position that's unlikely to be shared by the majority of the people.

Additionally his intransigence will increasingly turn people against him, the drop off in numbers today is maybe an indication that this is happening already.

Yingluck has come this far and I very much doubt that she will resign. I would imagine that the PTP camp are feeling cautiously optimistic at present.

PTP continue to hold out an Olive branch and unless this is matched by some shift in Sutheps demands his options will become increasingly limited.

He needs a get out plan if it goes all wrong and at the moment it would appear he has none.

[aimbc]

Let me remind all you farang posters. Some of us are here for several reasons. We all came from a country far away. We also have an option to go back as well. So what ever may happen to Thailand, we all still have a home elsewhere.

But for most Thais, do not have that option. Nor do they wish to go to another country. They want to make this home a home. Everyone here sees the corruption that this government has done and the blatant abuse that is going on. They see that the country is borrowing at an alarming rate. They see corruption as coming worst and worst. I am not saying it only happens with this government, but others as well. I think corruption has reached a point where corrupt people are stealing from corrupt people. And this will hurt future generations. The younger generations who are innocent and have no voice in the matter. Corruption has gotten so bad, that the govt. need a budget for corruption. Because if we allow the government to keep borrowing and not try to keep budget under control, we have just doomed the next generation. We are the caretaker of the next generation. No one in their right mind, knowing what this government has done can just stand idle so that the future generation will suffer because of our uncaring stance about protecting democracy for them. We enjoy today because others have protected us, now it's our turn to protect the future.

Corruption is a pyramide. It does not matter who is on the top of the pyramide Taksin, Suthep or anybody else. You can not destroy this pyramide by sitting at the Victory monument and waving flags. Poor people see it and that is why they vote for Taksin. If you want to change it, you have to educate them and give them economic freedom and wealth. It is a very hard task which may take several generations. Perhaps Suthep is one small step to that but he has to come to his senses and start talking to the opposite side. You can not just ignore the North. Imagine that Suthep wins and Reds send another 30,000 to Bangkok and shut it down. What is he going to do? He just did the same thing himself, right ?

I don't think there is an argument that corruption is at the core of the problem. Every party has an objective to fulfill their party objective. We won't go into party philosophy as it's very confusing. I am no politician. I do hope that each party is doing their best to serve the people and not serve themselves. But when the very people they claim that they help are not getting the money that the taxpayers have contributed, then that is corruption. It's not about who has the best policy. It's about where the money is going to? To its citizens or to the politician's greedy pockets.

Because who ultimately makes the laws. The government. So your argument about educating and economic freedom is good, but will you see government with corruption as their main objective wanting to educate the people. Also the way Thailand is structured today, the government has all the power. The law enforcement are all grouped into one and are controlled by one person. Leaving no room for check and balance even among themselves. Even media are controlled by the government. Every international reporter I have seen and heard always talk about the demonstrator not wanting election. But yet they never say that this government has been alleged to be corrupted, abuse of power and breaking the law. Maybe the headline should read at all times, the protesters are here boycotting the election "because of alleged misconducted by the current government". Something of that sort. Then that will bring in the question what are the claims. Then we can have a dialog.

Why then do you think sitting protesting and waving flags will change? What else can people do but demonstrate their frustration with the government in a non-violent way as possible. But it did bring to light to the world and Thailand of the abuse that is committed by the government. This decision to go on is not easy. It is a hard stance against the government not to negotiate. Because if the election goes on, all the corruption will just continue business as usual. Then it can never change.

I think you will see a lot of pressure by the judicial system to bring to justice all the corrupt MP and the PM. No more using political clout to get out of jail. I am sure some will still have a big clout though. But as you say, its a slow process. But the idea that government making the changes themselves, you have that much faith? We already know what PT is capable of doing. I don't think I need to remind anyone. I have more faith with Suthep people council than PT motivation to change and stamp out corruption. Also, I would not underestimate these protesters. They support Suthep and if Suthep misstep, they will bring him down quickly as they propped him up. This has awoken the nation. Uncharted territory for sure. But why not? Why can't it work. No one thought the American Revolution would work. But it produced a better governance at the end. Blind faith or foolish faith, I guess we have to weight the consequences.

A Bloodless Revolution.

[binjalin]

he wants government to call an election - they do

he wants a postponement - they,eventually, do that

he wants reform - they offer talks to find a way

he offers? - an unelected council, no dialogue, whistles and rhetoric

Thailand get's? - more pain, more inconvenience and more sniggers from the rest of the world that Democracy is something people fight FOR not fight against

everyone hates corruption - does Suthep? really? he's 'clean' right? he was deputy PM for how many years? what did HE DO??? <deleted> all but now he's lost power he's the 'Saviour of Thailand'? come on folks

the cold, harsh truth is that he knows he cannot win an election so seeks to take power by disruption and chaos and fortunately for him his old party seeks to get back through this 'backdoor' route rather than through POLICIES and convincing the electorate that they have a BETTER way

they had that chance and Suthep was deputy PM - that was THE opportunity - they dropped the ball now want to take it back as 'it's not fair they keep losing elections'

[Mackie]

he wants government to call an election - they do

he wants a postponement - they,eventually, do that

he wants reform - they offer talks to find a way

he offers? - an unelected council, no dialogue, whistles and rhetoric

Thailand get's? - more pain, more inconvenience and more sniggers from the rest of the world that Democracy is something people fight FOR not fight against

everyone hates corruption - does Suthep? really? he's 'clean' right? he was deputy PM for how many years? what did HE DO??? <deleted> all but now he's lost power he's the 'Saviour of Thailand'? come on folks

the cold, harsh truth is that he knows he cannot win an election so seeks to take power by disruption and chaos and fortunately for him his old party seeks to get back through this 'backdoor' route rather than through POLICIES and convincing the electorate that they have a BETTER way

they had that chance and Suthep was deputy PM - that was THE opportunity - they dropped the ball now want to take it back as 'it's not fair they keep losing elections'

Suthep is just another marionette. You give him too much credit. As for this government wanting a postponement, you're being dishonest. The ball is in their court. If they really are honest about their intentions and want a peaceful solution, they would postpone the election until late May or later which would definitely kill the amnesty bill. Both Bangkokians and the majority of democrats would be off the streets, back to normalcy. Thaksin is not coming home. Many of you fail to understand on this forum, that the majority of people do not support Suthep, they are out because they don't want the nasty bastard from Dubai back. How difficult is to understand that?