Thai politics: Vote buying scandals...

[JeffreyWitty]

I have wonder about this for some time, hopefully someone can answer my questions.

1) If a voter were asked to vote for "PERSON A" and would be paid "X AMOUNT" of baht - couldn't that voter just vote for whomever he/she wanted (like "PERSON B") and take the money?

2) In the USA all votes are private, there is no way to check to see if any specific voter voted for any specific politician. Is this NOT the case here in Thailand?

3) I always hear stories of voters selling their vote - was this ever PROVEN this past election? (It's one thing to claim it is ongoing, its another to show that it is actually happening.)

Edited January 17, 2014 by JeffreyWitty

[rijb]

I asked the same question. I was told that #2 is the issue.

[h90]

often it is demanded to make a photo of the vote.

often it is relative difficult: You can buy before the election on credit. If the PTP person wins all the credit is canceled. If not you must pay it back.

Back in the old times you got one shoe (flip flop) before the election and the second only after the win of the right party....Now it is the same, just way more complicated system.

[wym]

Crazy asking for proof of this phenomenon, like asking for proof that Bangkok traffic is bad.

Just get out among the people and talk to them.

This isn't a "scandal" in any sense, any more than the statement "western politicians act more in the interest of those that financially support their campaigns than the common people".

Totally obvious and IMO hardly even interesting.

[Sceptict11]

In at least one Western country "vote buying" is known as "pork barrel" politics !

[Theoutsider]

Apparently they know who you vote for.

[rijb]

Apparently they know who you vote for.

...they know who you (will) vote for. No sense leaving it to chance.

[tingtong]

Say, you meet someone who want to buy your vote...

Jackpot for many, for example elderly, no real income village folk, especially...

Wouldnt one then in turn go ahead and vote this person to the inner circle, in hope that next election the same occurs?

At least this person already "proved" to be generous.

That what seem to work in the countryside here, around us, anyway.

[jgm005]

This is not an answer to the OP's question but a comment. It is election time in the village we live in on 19 February .

Six different groups of people vying for whatever the positions are. They come around in teams to solicit her vote. Team A swept our

street. Team B cut the grass on our Soi. Team C and Team D offered 500 bt for her vote and the other 1500 bt for her vote. None of which

is guaranteed for she will probably not vote or vote depending which way the wind is blowing.

If I could vote it would be the team who would actually fix the Soi as it meets the main road. There is a 15m gap and it is like driving over the moon's landscape but no one

pays any attention to the farang.

[Northwindhermit]

Votes are bought in many ways. As a good example, you are a rice farmer or involved in the rice industry. The politicians who want your vote promise that they will “guarantee” or “pledge” you a government-paid price for your rice that is (insanely) above the market price. Why wouldn’t you vote them into office? (Unless you know something about economics and the vast history of government corruption everywhere.)

You “win,” as do the politicians whom you just voted into office. But do you really win? Pretending that you can both wish real-world market economic realities away, you run up against cold hard facts: You and your elected government cannot sell rice at above market prices (who the hell would buy it?).

You have been conned. But the politicians who have just bought your votes in this well-pitched scheme are now in power – and as short-range thinkers, they don’t give a dam_n about your plight.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Rooo
Font

[Mudcrab]

my missus takes the money from whomever is offering it then votes how she likes...and it isn't red. We are in a village in issaan

[manarak]

This isn't a "scandal" in any sense, any more than the statement "western politicians act more in the interest of those that financially support their campaigns than the common people".

my thoughts exactly, except about the West. Many countries have now become so "clean" that it became very difficult for politicians to collect finance from sponsors, so the consequence is that all those countries are leaning more and more to socialist vote buying, i.e. promise money to the poor and play on jealousy to get votes and fund it through debt and taxes, ruining a country's economy in the process... *juck*

Edited January 18, 2014 by manarak

[inzman]

My family received 500 baht to vote for a particular Kanman, as did many other villagers. He lost. No big deal, no repercussions. But he is a <deleted>, haha.

[HOOD Robin]

in Thailand such questions dont make ANY sense....

[drand11]

The bid buying was limited, investigatef, and people went jail. Yingluk won 60% to 35% !! She won by 5 milliion votes. UN also confirmed that though tjerd were dime irregularities, it was a legit vote. Dems judt use this to jystify tjeir 25 yrs of failure!!

[dao16]

I never got this aspect of people on TV saying that votes were "bought." I have seen it several times in my wife's village. The people know when the representatives from the different parties are coming and they take money from ALL of them...to the point of hiding in a back room as they take the money. When you ask them who they are going to vote for, they already have their minds made up--but money from all sides can be used at the market! Don't think the payments ever swayed any of the people I talked to....they just liked getting visits from all sides and getting money. It seems that NOT getting money from a particular party would make a difference, though.

Amazing Thailand.

[Maybole]

In my country vote are paid for by building new or improving existing hospitals, schools and roads etc. only in the areas where the ruling party's known suporters live.

[Bosse137]

I think the impact of "votebuying" is overstated.First,as others already have said,many people take the money and vote their own way. Secondly,how do anyone know how many of the votes the paying party would have got ANYWAY! I mean,if somebody intends to vote for party X and they are offered money to do so,well.... Then there are a few,who get angry and vote for the other side.And finally,since all (?) sides do the same,it kind of even thing out a bit. Okey,if the winning margin is very small,then I guess it could have some impact,otherwise not. Whatever,it is a bad habit,but Thai people seems to find it o.k. like all kinds of coruption as long as it benefits them self.(According to several polls and from my own observations) BTW,that`s why I am somewhat surprised over the outcry about "Thaksin being corupt",as if that is something unik in this country.Who is NOT corupt??? Does not make his case better,of course,but why is it so chocking,when most other politicians try their best to cheat!? PS,I am not a Thaksin fan.save your angry comments....

Edited January 18, 2014 by Bosse137

[HOOD Robin]

I think the impact of "votebuying" is overstated.First,as others already have said,many people take the money and vote their own way. Secondly,how do anyone know how many of the votes the paying party would have got ANYWAY! I mean,if somebody intends to vote for party X and they are offered money to do so,well.... Then there are a few,who get angry and vote for the other side.And finally,since all (?) sides do the same,it kind of even thing out a bit. Okey,if the winning margin is very small,then I guess it could have some impact,otherwise not. Whatever,it is a bad habit,but Thai people seems to find it o.k. like all kinds of coruption as long as it benefits them self.(According to several polls and from my own observations) BTW,that`s why I am somewhat surprised over the outcry about "Thaksin being corupt",as if that is something unik in this country.Who is NOT corupt??? Does not make his case better,of course,but why is it so chocking,when most other politicians try their best to cheat!? PS,I am not a Thaksin fan.save your angry comments....

you think the impact of votebuying is overstated ??? Well watch this, they dont even hide it when they go upcountry and buy the votes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

[dao16]

I think the impact of "votebuying" is overstated.First,as others already have said,many people take the money and vote their own way. Secondly,how do anyone know how many of the votes the paying party would have got ANYWAY! I mean,if somebody intends to vote for party X and they are offered money to do so,well.... Then there are a few,who get angry and vote for the other side.And finally,since all (?) sides do the same,it kind of even thing out a bit. Okey,if the winning margin is very small,then I guess it could have some impact,otherwise not. Whatever,it is a bad habit,but Thai people seems to find it o.k. like all kinds of coruption as long as it benefits them self.(According to several polls and from my own observations) BTW,that`s why I am somewhat surprised over the outcry about "Thaksin being corupt",as if that is something unik in this country.Who is NOT corupt??? Does not make his case better,of course,but why is it so chocking,when most other politicians try their best to cheat!? PS,I am not a Thaksin fan.save your angry comments....

you think the impact of votebuying is overstated ??? Well watch this, they dont even hide it when they go upcountry and buy the votes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

Yeah, but it just seems like he did what they all have done and continue to do. Not saying that guy is good....he just had more money to play the game with. People don't come home to vote. They come home to get money from all sides, Mr. T's included.

[stoli]

I think you are taking this too literal. Vote buying is also.

Rice Scheme - Promise the farmers more money than their crops are worth.

Minimum Wage - Promise that if elected the minimum wage will be increased for everyone.

Establish a 30 baht medical program.

Design a Social Security System for the elderly.

Offer a 100,000 rebate if you buy a new car.

I am not saying these are all bad programs for the Thai's, but they sure do get you to vote for them. More money for you in the future if you put us in office. It has always worked in the U.S.

[thailiketoo]

Before I take the time to respond has the following Thai Visa policy changed?

As a result of the great increase in posts about politics in Thailand, we are requesting that members keep political discussion confined to threads already open in the Thailand News Forum.

[crazydrummerpauly]

I think you are taking this too literal. Vote buying is also.

Rice Scheme - Promise the farmers more money than their crops are worth.

Minimum Wage - Promise that if elected the minimum wage will be increased for everyone.

Establish a 30 baht medical program.

Design a Social Security System for the elderly.

Offer a 100,000 rebate if you buy a new car.

I am not saying these are all bad programs for the Thai's, but they sure do get you to vote for them. More money for you in the future if you put us in office. It has always worked in the U.S.

It's not really being too 'literal' to see a difference between 'Vote winning' (which is what your list amounts to), which is the public gaining of support for a particular political philosophy; and 'Vote buying' which is a more or less secretive gaining of support against the law of the land.

[wym]

I think you are taking this too literal. Vote buying is also.

Rice Scheme - Promise the farmers more money than their crops are worth.

Minimum Wage - Promise that if elected the minimum wage will be increased for everyone.

Establish a 30 baht medical program.

Design a Social Security System for the elderly.

Offer a 100,000 rebate if you buy a new car.

I am not saying these are all bad programs for the Thai's, but they sure do get you to vote for them. More money for you in the future if you put us in office. It has always worked in the U.S.

Absolutely, populist policies are of course necessary in any system claiming to be a democracy.

The result is a government that at least devotes some resources to helping the common people rather than only working for the rich.

To be a true democracy there needs to be a lot more of what you're talking about and much less pandering to the rich and corporate special interests.

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

― Winston Churchill

[Ulic]

I have been told all parties pay for votes, many people take money from multiple parties and then

vote there desire anyway. All the politicians are corrupt so why not take a page from there book

and get as much as you can. As for taking a picture of you ballot as proof, not sure all those

farmers have smart phones

[Satcommlee]

It's not so much about the actual individual vote.

Maybe it is more to do with the benefit the voter receives should the candidate win the election.

Such as Grandiose victory parties with (I think this may be why Alchohol is banned during elections), followed by hand-outs or as mentioned write-off of debts relating specifically to the group to be influenced (Ie: Rice farmers)

[drx13]

But aren't the voters effectively being bought with their own money ?

[Rooo]

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