Is Thainess a good or bad thing? What does it mean to you?

[laobali]

it's what makes thailand different from other countries(?)

Well if it is, then it's stating the obvious, such as "I like (or hate) something for its "somethingness".

Edited January 18, 2014 by laobali

[laobali]

Thainess is where you think 2+2=4 then find out its 4 and a little bit!

Or 3.5.

[Thai at Heart]

When someone uses the word, what immediately flashes through your mind?

The first thing that comes to mind when hearing that word is: "Oh, no, now some bored, tedious Thai Visa poster will manage to turn this into another excuse to ask ridiculous questions that are really a thinly veiled excuse to bash Thailand and turn an insignificant molehill into some bloated mountain."

The second thing that comes to mind is that Thainess conjures up the image of someone who would never waste his/her time asking people what they thought of "farangness."

Because it shouldn't exist as a concept. I am sure however that 100% of thais would be able to give me a run down on stereotypes associated with farangs in double quick time.

[fifthcolumn]

To this American, it means belonging to and being a subject to the royal family. Belonging to that greater family. History that is uniquely Thai. Buddhist historical legacy. Buddhist Theravada traditions. Traditions that are uniquely Thai but also to a greater extent, Asian. An antiquated notion and subservence to parents and nuclear family. A sense of Thai caste and place in greater society. The ability to both decry corruption and use it as one sees fit.

Jai yen sabai sabai

A really shitty education

Naampiik Meng-da

Coconut ice cream

[I knew this would happen]

Thainess is where you think 2+2=4 then find out its 4 and a little bit!

Or 3.5.

But Thai 4 not same same as Farang 4, you no understand Thai 4.

Good about Thainess, to see everything in a relaxed way

Bad about Thainess, to see everything in a relaxed way

Somedays I like it, somedays it drives me crazy.

[fifthcolumn]

To this American, it means belonging to and being a subject to the royal family. Belonging to that greater family. History that is uniquely Thai. Buddhist historical legacy. Buddhist Theravada traditions. Traditions that are uniquely Thai but also to a greater extent, Asian. An antiquated notion and subservence to parents and nuclear family. A sense of Thai caste and place in greater society. The ability to both decry corruption and use it as one sees fit.

Jai yen sabai sabai

A really shitty education

Naampiik Meng-da

Coconut ice cream

[fifthcolumn]

To this American, it means belonging to and being a subject to the royal family. Belonging to that greater family. History that is uniquely Thai. Buddhist historical legacy. Buddhist Theravada traditions. Traditions that are uniquely Thai but also to a greater extent, Asian. An antiquated notion and subservence to parents and nuclear family. A sense of Thai caste and place in greater society. The ability to both decry corruption and use it as one sees fit.

Jai yen sabai sabai

A really shitty education

Naampiik Meng-da

Coconut ice cream

[mancub]

The Thainess that TAT heralds is that of the long lost ideal of a friendly ,smiling ,carefree nation.

Rapid development ,greed ,and the head-long rush for all things materialistic have undermined the "old values" .

Thainess nowadays ,to those who see through the veneer of the "land of smiles" and witness the endemic corruption often means quite the opposite.

Sorry to be that guy, and not casting aspersions on your language ability, but the space comes after the comma not before.

Consider myself suitably humbled ......but I won't lose any sleep over it !

[Somsrisonphimai]

Thainess = Consideration

[mancub]

Thainess = Consideration

..But not normally applicable to politicians, road users or anyone who possesses a loud stereo system. !

[ravip]

A question that has been responded by extremely educative & intelligent answers. Why not try another question with another ????ness.

This way we can learn about different cultures from experienced travellers!

[Thai at Heart]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[wym]

Thainess = Consideration

I think this is very much true, but for many Thais only applies to those others within their family/friend/business network.

I only wish people were as considerate for others feelings and needs that way in my own culture, would make it a much nicer place to live, Thais do still have a very strong sense of community that is largely lacking in modern western consumer/capitalist culture.

HOWEVER once you get outside of that "inner circle", Thais will very often show complete disregard for others, to such a degree that we foreigners, as total outsiders as you can get, experience Thais as not only inconsiderate, but immoral and dishonest.

To some extent I think this is due to modern times' focus on consumerism and capitalism, but Thailand has adopted these so strongly I don't think it's true to see them as foreign imports anymore.

[Gaccha]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

au contraire, it is precisely that which is lacking that is narrated to represent the nation. This is because its rarity makes it distinct. Hence the trope of the 'gentleman' for that land of drunken Friday nights, merry gin-soaked England, and the insistence of Canadians of their exciting differences with the USA.

[benalibina]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Hence the hierarchical structure of society. Proper education with critical thinking and expressing it to be allowed.....well generations it will take.

[Thai at Heart]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Hence the hierarchical structure of society. Proper education with critical thinking and expressing it to be allowed.....well generations it will take.

Breaking it down is going to be very hard when do many have a vested interest in keeping the system.

Dare anyone ask, "why?"

[Somsrisonphimai]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Thai people have chosen the word "Thainess" to describe their country. It could be many things to many people, but to me, Thainess = consideration. At first I thought Thainess= unity since the country has been divided political as of late. But the word "unity" won't be appropriated to describe the country as a whole, just my opinion.

I would say 99.9% of Thai people are considered people. How do you describe your mother country in one word then?

[benalibina]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Hence the hierarchical structure of society. Proper education with critical thinking and expressing it to be allowed.....well generations it will take.

Breaking it down is going to be very hard when do many have a vested interest in keeping the system.

Dare anyone ask, "why?"

There education must come in. To understand big one has to understand small first.

Education must teach morals 2. Of what i have seen within my FIL education is been left to the schools/teachers. Their vision is paramount. It was a shocker for me to learn about that. I always tried, how young they still were, to learn my kids to think about the shades of grey. Thai culture is about good and bad. Nothing in between. Thinking.....why...yes...why...well at the end of the day it is for the benefit of the whole nation.

[Thai at Heart]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Thai people have chosen the word "Thainess" to describe their country. It could be many things to many people, but to me, Thainess = consideration. At first I thought Thainess= unity since the country has been divided political as of late. But the word "unity" won't be appropriated to describe the country as a whole, just my opinion.

I would say 99.9% of Thai people are considered people. How do you describe your mother country in one word then?

I think you will find that a bunch of marketing people came up with the phrase in only recent years.

It takes more than one word to describe a country and I wouldn't be so arrogant to say ........ness and then say no one else in the world could possibly get it because we are so unique.

Funny you should ask this because my country has what many would describe as a distinct national identity. It can be something to be quietly proud of but I believe also can stand for a certain parochial backwardness if taken too seriously.

A bit like thainess.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[samuiwonder]

Thai ness means never ever admitting they were wrong.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bgrassboy]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Thai people have chosen the word "Thainess" to describe their country. It could be many things to many people, but to me, Thainess = consideration. How do you describe your mother country in one word then?

USA= melting pot. Not really one word but i think a compound noun is as close as I can come to one word that descibres my mother country.

[Somsrisonphimai]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Thai people have chosen the word "Thainess" to describe their country. It could be many things to many people, but to me, Thainess = consideration. How do you describe your mother country in one word then?

USA= melting pot. Not really one word but i think a compound noun is as close as I can come to one word that descibres my mother country.

Somehow when I think of the USA I think power, so USA=Power.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[montrii]

The concept of "Thainess" has been around for a long time. It came about within the Thai culture as a way of identifying themselves as different from people of other cultures, in particular with reference to the West and to other Asian countries, and stresses the differences Thais are most proud of. In his magnificent book, Siam Mapped (1994), Thongchai Winichakul writes,

"In Thailand today there is a widespread assumption that there is such a thing as a common Thai nature or identity: khwamphenthai (Thainess). It is believed to have existed for a long time, and all Thai are supposed to be well aware of its virtue. The essence of Thainess has been well preserved up to the present time despite the fact that Siam has been transformed greatly toward modernization in the past hundred years. Like other nationalist discourse, it presumes that the great leaders (in this case monarchs) selectively adopted only good things from the West for the country while preserving the traditional values at their best. Although a skeptic might doubt the validity of such a view, the notion prevails even among scholars."

Thongchai points out a lot of flaws with the concept. A lot. He goes on at great length, and it's a really worthwhile read.

Maybe because I paid so much attention to what he wrote all those years ago, I've not had a very good feeling about "Thainess." It seems to me to be more about nationalism and an artificial sense of pride based on a lot of ill-defined concepts than a list of the qualities that endear the Thai people and culture to me.

I like Thailand very much, and am very fond of the Thai people in general, and do see there are common threads running through the culture which are responsible for these feelings. They are hard to define, but most of us experience a different kind of warmth, openness, hospitality, and a relaxed atmosphere than we've found anywhere else, and it draws us to the place and keeps many of us here. But I have seen the concept of "Thainess" used by Thai friends and acquaintances to justify or excuse all sorts of things I think most of us would say were negative, including a tendency to avoid critical thinking and to make excuses for inexcusable things, racial prejudice and governmental corruption among them.

So, no, I don't like "Thainess," though when it's used to describe certain things in advertisements, well, I like some of those all right. But that limited nationalistic concept has nothing to do with my love for this place and the people I have found here.

[Thai at Heart]

The concept of "Thainess" has been around for a long time. It came about within the Thai culture as a way of identifying themselves as different from people of other cultures, in particular with reference to the West and to other Asian countries, and stresses the differences Thais are most proud of. In his magnificent book, Siam Mapped (1994), Thongchai Winichakul writes,

"In Thailand today there is a widespread assumption that there is such a thing as a common Thai nature or identity: khwamphenthai (Thainess). It is believed to have existed for a long time, and all Thai are supposed to be well aware of its virtue. The essence of Thainess has been well preserved up to the present time despite the fact that Siam has been transformed greatly toward modernization in the past hundred years. Like other nationalist discourse, it presumes that the great leaders (in this case monarchs) selectively adopted only good things from the West for the country while preserving the traditional values at their best. Although a skeptic might doubt the validity of such a view, the notion prevails even among scholars."

Thongchai points out a lot of flaws with the concept. A lot. He goes on at great length, and it's a really worthwhile read.

Maybe because I paid so much attention to what he wrote all those years ago, I've not had a very good feeling about "Thainess." It seems to me to be more about nationalism and an artificial sense of pride based on a lot of ill-defined concepts than a list of the qualities that endear the Thai people and culture to me.

I like Thailand very much, and am very fond of the Thai people in general, and do see there are common threads running through the culture which are responsible for these feelings. They are hard to define, but most of us experience a different kind of warmth, openness, hospitality, and a relaxed atmosphere than we've found anywhere else, and it draws us to the place and keeps many of us here. But I have seen the concept of "Thainess" used by Thai friends and acquaintances to justify or excuse all sorts of things I think most of us would say were negative, including a tendency to avoid critical thinking and to make excuses for inexcusable things, racial prejudice and governmental corruption among them.

So, no, I don't like "Thainess," though when it's used to describe certain things in advertisements, well, I like some of those all right. But that limited nationalistic concept has nothing to do with my love for this place and the people I have found here.

Depends at which point it becomes a hindrance.

If there are 5 positive traits and 6 predominant negative ones in thai culture then at what point does the concept become ill advised and essentially detrimental?

[Berkshire]

Thainess = Consideration

You mean graeng jai? Ah yes the most useless of words. Spoken more in hope than practice. The only country to have a word to express this supposedly national trait where it is completely lacking.

Graengjai translates "I will do what a pooyai tells me and will tell those beneath me what to do. I will exercise this with zero consideration for whether it is appropriate, it is the way the world is". It is not consideration it is obedience.

Thai people have chosen the word "Thainess" to describe their country. It could be many things to many people, but to me, Thainess = consideration. At first I thought Thainess= unity since the country has been divided political as of late. But the word "unity" won't be appropriated to describe the country as a whole, just my opinion.

I would say 99.9% of Thai people are considered people. How do you describe your mother country in one word then?

Good point(s). I think Thainess also means respect of elders/traditions, love of family, devotion to parents, etc. People who can only think of negative stuff clearly shows their generally negative attitudes towards Thailand. The usual suspects.

As for the mother country (USA), the first word that comes to my mind is "freedom." Of course, many would say that America is anything but free anymore. But that's the basic precept. Whether in practice or not, debatable.

[bemate4u]

It is funny that my friend used to call me Thainese. It comes from Thai combine with Chinese so it is Thainese. It is a joke. Anyway it is not relating to the topic. :-)

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand