To Barack Obama: Mr President, some facts you should know about the Thai political crisis

[wwest5829]

Thank you for your input. I am pretty sure that President Obama has some folks outlining events in Thailand. So, we are both U.S. Citizens? Then you understand my vote is equal to your vote and I stand opposed to the suspension of democracy in Thailand (with all it's flaws - plenty in the U.S., as well). Not my business? Hmm, yes, for the Thai electorate to decide but I will maintain and interest because I care about the country and culture I have chosen to become a part.

So, the majority decides. It's a tough slog...educating the electorate, proposing political agendas that gain the support of the majority of the voting public. I am quite sympathetic to Thai frustrations with the newly felt political power of those who had, in the past, deferred to the more powerful. The needed changes will be hard faught by those with a threatened lose of power (on all sides). Still, I would hope that it could be done within a democratic system rather than a ruling elite of whatever ilk.

[TallPalm]

So handing absolute power to a scorned, arrogant, woefully corrupt, cunning and manipulative ex-politician is the answer to the current turmoil? Suthep has not brought nor offered anything productive to Thailand, he has only fueled a dream for his own personal ambitions to the detriment of normal everyday people that are affected by his protests.

[brewsterbudgen]

To the OP, save your stamps, there is no way in the world that President Obama or any other western democracy will back a mob to unseat the duly elected government, They could offer Thailand international poll watchers, that could report any vote buying or intimidation to keep the people from voting.

The only way to unseat the will of the majority of voters in Thailand, is to vote Yingluck out of office, That sir, is the way a democracy works!

Cheers

They are in the Ukraine!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No one is proposing the cancellation of elections in the Ukraine.

[Emster23]

"Thaksin's current government attempted to amend the Senate structure and bar appointed senators." That sounds pro democracy to me. Surprised did not say "You understand that letting people decide who serves is undemocratic, because people can't be trusted as much as the rich and powerful. Is not 30% of your senate appointed and not elected?"

"The Thaksin authoritarian government, elected through vote-rigging, proved to be the most corrupt and the gravest human rights violator." As shown time and again, both sides did vote rigging. Not unique to Thaksin. Is his argument based on idea that the less corrupt governments (his friends) are somehow more democratic?

"n In 2004, Thaksin's security forces shot, suffocated or crushed to death 85 southern protesters in what is known as the Tak Bai massacre" Yes that was the army doing that. And we have seen that the army responds to every request and order from the leftist governments and never interferes with elected governments (sarcastic remark, fyi), unless you count coups, telling police to not police, etc as they have done recently, and in the past.

"Thaksin abused his power and robbed this country for his personal gain." Yes, that is part of standard Thai politics, regardless of party, from top to bottom, from teacher in smallest village to the top.

Perhaps if those protesting would present a detailed, concrete plan of how they would ensure democracy rather than the vague "people's council" which would decide what is best, they might have a leg to stand on. Others have posted suggestions along those lines which at a minimum would include freedom of speech and the press, transparency in budgeting, full disclosure of financial assets and tax returns of those in elected office, and independent judiciary, armed forces and police being under control of elected officials, etc etc

Why won't they spell out the details of reform? My guess is they want to re-form, that is bring in the good old boys, but not implement democracy.

[I knew this would happen]

I think the democratic system has failed pretty much everywhere.

Switzerland?

[thhMan]

What was left out is...

n The Thai people , democratically elected his sister, so anything I have said previously is now moot

[Emster23]

hmm seemed to double post. Oh, forgot.... why is he whining to Obama? Obama has enough poo that he is stepping in presently, without stepping into this. Keep it simple: Current government was elected in democratically (well, enough to not matter) run election. Duh.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Emster23

[Thaiready]

Obama don't give a flying Flunk about the USA let along Thailand.....

[devaram]

The sins of Thaksin have been told million times and its frankly boring as too boring to read in fact.

If you have a problem with Thaksin use the law and the civilized voting process to deal with him but dont try to legitimize a mob who holds a city hostage just so they can get their fair share of the corruption!

[Snig27]

As a US practicing international lawyer and a US and Thai citizen I respect Khun Vanina's views, but respectfully disagree.

I reject the view that the best way to achieve democracy is to suspend democracy pending the 're-education' of the poor and those living outside of Bangkok so that they will vote 'the right way' (i.e. not for Phua Thai). There is no lawful process that I am aware of under the circumstances to require that the PM step down and some non elected panel be appointed to oversee 'reform' so that full and effective democratic elections can then take place sometime in the future. The only 'process' that can achieve this as a practical matter is another 'coup' another revised Constitution and then another election when sufficient 're-education' has taken place. That process is 'extrajudicial'.

The anti government protesters always list the 'parade of horrors' of Taksin, and paint Yingluck with the same brush and THAT is the reason she must step down. IF there was sufficient evidence to support an impeachment of Yingluck then the case should be brought - but frankly, overall, she has done a reasonable job in my view over the last two years given the insanity of Thai politics. Saying she is the 'puppet' of Taksin is hardly new or a basis for demanding her immediate resignation. Saying that she supports 'populist' policies, is not a reason to demand she resign. Show me and the other Thai people the proof and follow the legal process of impeachment and/or winning an election.

The Democrats are no better than Puea Thai - corruption allegations can easily be laid on both sides. Remember Abisit and the on line lottery? How Abisit citing how the on line lottery is not consistent with Thai culture and morals so he cancelled the contract AFTER it was approved and the system deployed (the same system that is operating fine in Malaysia to bring in significant monies into the Malaysian treasury) - without any reference to the real reason - that the UNDERGROUND lottery brings in over USD 1 BIllion a year (and a significant amount of this being siphoned off by unnamed Thai officers) and that by deploying the on line system that cash would be going directly into the Thai treasury lawfully and for the benefit of Thailand. How about the underground casinos in Bangkok? What about the Democrats going into the provinces and giving 'Things' (not money) to the rural folks (where the Puea Thai purportedly give money - but the aim is the same). My point is not to assert anything more than this - both parties are just as guilty/dirty so it is pointless to say that only Puea Thai is 'corrupt'.

I accept that democratic processes have lawfully elected dictators (Hilter, Rajapaksa in Sri Lanka, et al), but I reject that the voice of the Thai people should be silenced by not holding elections in February. If the Democrats want to be elected, then let them go win an election. To put a US spin on this, currently Obama has an approval rating of under 40% - and I am sure that rallies of millions could be staged across the USA demanding that he resign NOW well before the 2016 elections. But that is not how it works, and the only way to get rid of Obama mid term is to impeach him - and the only lawful way to get rid of Yingluck is to impeach her (and prove the case against her and Puea Thai).

As a Thai citizen I want to be able to exercise my right to vote in February - I do not want to be told that I am too stupid to vote 'correctly' nor do I want to see another coup, another appointed PM, and then after I and others are re-educated, another election years down the road.

A great post, thank you.

It's incredible that so many seem to repeat by rote over and over the chanted claims of vote rigging, Thaksin's puppet, heinous populist policies (I've yet to hear why popular policies are bad) and so on until the half-baked memes become entrenched as fact in nodding heads. Anyone that disagrees with the lore of Suthep and his mob is "red", a "red ghost", or now "scarlett".

I said something similar a few days back and somebody immediately came back at me "red troll!" which rather made my point. I've also been accused to taking money from "Dubai". And so it goes.

If somebody feels so strongly about Thaksin and Yingluck., there is a mechanism called The Vote which allows you to express that in a way that the whole civilized world will regard as valid. It ain't a hard concept to come to terms with surely.

The scariest thing right now though is the massive flight of capital from Thailand. Thailand's economy in the last few years has bucked the international crisis and under the "reds" the economy has boomed, but that's about to end with these protests. The wealthy may quickly find they are no longer quite as affluent. Suthep has quietly done them over as they blew their whistles and chanted inanely.

[Publicus]

This is a great letter, please help it to be disseminated to all other foreign media and also can the US Government stop minding its own business and get its own country properly first especially its own economic policies. The people of US should start a demonstration against this garbage congressman Michael Turner and his family and croynies as he does not seem to be serving his own American People and their welfare but getting his nose involved in the butts of other people's <deleted> which is not his problem or issue. They should ousts this garbage and also check on all of his finances and businesses and even his families, I am sure that they will find something from a garbage like this.

Congressman Turner is a member of the House Armed Services Committee which is the body in the House of Representatives that has direct jurisdiction over the Pentagon, to include its budget, policies, strategies. He was chairman of the Subcommittee on Strategic Forces which has jurisdiction of the entire nuclear arsenal of the United States, primarily in the Strategic Air Command and in the North American Aerospace Defense Command (with Canada).

Rep Turner's record in the Congress is one of highly sensitive, far-reaching and responsible leadership, which is pretty good for a guy who started out being elected mayor of his home city in Ohio and has been thoroughly vetted. Cong Turner is all over North Korea's nuclear program and is a well-known and recurring nightmare to Kim Jong Un.

Thailand is a US defense treaty ally, the US's oldest treaty ally in Asia so now chairman Turner is becoming known to Suthep, Abhisit and the Democrat Party, all of which directly represent Beijing in Thailand ahead of the interests of the United States.

Chairman Turner is respected in the White House so you can bet the ranch and the farm Prez Obama is composing his response to Chairman Turner's letter.

This therefore is my response to your garbage post.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Publicus

[tx22cb]

Oh no, I'm too late - I can't access the "https://twitter.com/princessvanina" twitter account.

I'm not well versed with Thaksin (before my time), so perhaps her letter makes some valid points, but I can't help thinking that the letter is a publicity stunt, aimed at the English-reading Thai public rather than at US policy makers.

As someone practiced in international affairs, she would know that POTUS seldom reads letters from individuals (unlike Apple CEOs).

She knows that the Administration will get its input on Thailand from the US Ambassador.

=> So if Ms Vanina truly wants to influence Barry, she should lobby the Ambassador, preferably behind the scenes (like true diplomats).

At least she prefers to use the pen rather than the sword.

[Balance]

Simply a bunch of self-serving crap. Thaksin got poor people to vote; he told them that they could vote and that if they voted for him then he would improve their lives. They did and he did improve their lives. Basic democracy. The right wing simply cannot stand the fact that there are major social and economic changes coming to Thailand. The policy of the elites for 600 years has been to convince poor people that if they were born in a buffalo cart then it was expected that their great grandchildren should also be happy to be born in one also. The entire social policy of the country has been to keep poor people poor and on the farm growing really cheap food for the people in BKK. The structure of the Thai language itself reinforced this cast system and helped keep people where the ones in power want them.

This is not new. The author is familiar with the history of the U.S.A. where it was done in a formalized slave trade and where people were bought and sold as chattel. It is going on now; in 15 years white people will no longer be the majority in America. Now, poor white people are waking up to the fact that their interests are different from what they are told they should be. This is exactly what is behind the war against President Obama's health care reforms. If poor white people get health care then they become invested in keeping it. This motivates them to vote, and this simple scares the shit out of the power structure.

This is the 21st century, not the 17th. Thailand will never be the same. If there are any enlightened members of the ruling families, perhaps it is time for them to speak up. It is certainly true that now is the time that Thailand needs leadership from them to help forge a path of greater equality of opportunity for all of Thai people.

[diehard60]

Many of you agree with all or part of this and that is fine. But suthep does not want a democracy he wants a dictatorship with him as dictator. When are you going to wake up and smell the roses?

[gamini]

I'm curious about the answers of some of the simplistic anti-Suthep pro Thaksin TV members

probably very young or showing off , trying to be clever, living abroad, new to Thailand and just plain ignorant

[TechnikaIII]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

On the contrary, I think he knows exactly what democracy is.... It is people who come out with statements like this who do not know what democracy is.

The self described "princess" is trying to survive as a Franco-Thai American girl in Bangkok. Let's give the poor dearie a break.

"The self described "princess" is trying to survive as a Franco-Thai American girl in Bangkok. Let's give the poor dearie a break."

Most sexist, shit-for-brain, male chauvinist comment ever to appear here. I pity the females who encounter you, let alone accommodate you, simply to support their families. Sickening.

[shiok]

Well written and 100% true. Good to educate some of the westerners who talk a lot about 'democracy' but don't seem to know the crimes which include the murders done under the Shinawatras.

And yes, the democratic system here has failed miserably.

Well said, TVGerry!

[shiok]

Many of you agree with all or part of this and that is fine. But suthep does not want a democracy he wants a dictatorship with him as dictator. When are you going to wake up and smell the roses?

perhaps we are smelling fresh roses and yours are wilted and decaying.

[tonneke breda]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

And you do?? And the Shin's did??? come on get an education…..

[wprime]

The fact that he's friendlier to the US than the old world elite are should be enough to counter all of those points.

[samjaidee]

It might be interesting to see the text, of the Congressman's original letter to President Obama, which the permanent secretary of defence Nipat Thnglek (who works for caretaker-DM Yingluck) reportedly showed to reporters yesterday, and which resulted in the reply in the OP ?

What has the Congressman been saying, about Thailand and the current situation, to which some Thais might take exception ?

I'd link to confirm that story, but it's in the BP, so can't.

Here's the content of the letter, word for word.

Dear Mr. President,

I am writing you today to voice my deep concerns over a strong U.S. ally that plays a pivotal role in democratic stability throughout Asia. As you may know, a close economic and military ally, Thailand, is being threatened. The U.S. must remain a strong voice for stability by ensuring Thailand's democratic principles are upheld.

In recent years, we have seen far too many democracies fail. Today's Washington Post editorial Turning Point in Thailand, highlights yet another democracy that is being threatened by an antidemocratic uprising. Continued violence between groups that support democracy and who oppose, have perpetuated political instability.

Please join me in publically (sic) voicing opposition to this current situation by supporting the democratic process as the February 2, 2014 general election approaches. I look forward to hearing your response.

Sincerely,

Michael R. Turner

Member of Congress

[mdmayes]

Thanks for the education on why the protests are happening. I have one question on this...why is the nation split between the poor rural peoples and the mid to upper class. What is that about?

[MrSlatersParrot]

"while prime minister, Thaksin sold his stake in telecoms giant Shin Corp to Temasek, evading taxes worth $16.3 million."

Apologies if this has already been covered.

I don't recall how much thaksin sold his stake in shin corp but let's say it was 1.6 billion dollars (that's what was taken from him by the un-biased court)

1.6 billion = 1600 million divided by 16 million

He evaded 1% tax.

I think CGT is 2.5% in thailand on house sales. So are former landlord told us and i have to pay 28% cgt on sale of my own property!

[JAG]

Perhaps Mr Obama would like to study the thread entitled " Protesters detain official for refusing to join protests" after he has read this letter.

[Thai at Heart]

"while prime minister, Thaksin sold his stake in telecoms giant Shin Corp to Temasek, evading taxes worth $16.3 million."

Apologies if this has already been covered.

I don't recall how much thaksin sold his stake in shin corp but let's say it was 1.6 billion dollars (that's what was taken from him by the un-biased court)

1.6 billion = 1600 million divided by 16 million

He evaded 1% tax.

I think CGT is 2.5% in thailand on house sales. So are former landlord told us and i have to pay 28% cgt on sale of my own property!

It's got to be wrong. If this is the reason that this whole mess has started, my lord.

[jackrich]

A true democracy requires transparency, accountability and proper balance of power.

If Suthep and his followers are so BIG on transparency, maybe he can explain as to why he gave 592 plots of land to RICH families instead of the POOR people they were intended for?

As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation. The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate. In subsequent elections, Thai Nation Party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

Wikileaks diplomatic cables from the US embassy revealed that many members of his own party have long complained of his corrupt and unethical behavior.

Edited January 20, 2014 by jackrich

[englishoak]

The letter will go straight in the bin

[darren84310]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

These are all facts that he's quoting.... so please enlighten us what you think should be done.

[Sayonarax]

Why on earth would you ask for Obama's help? If you want democracy, you wont find it with an agenda 21 puppet.

[Robby nz]

As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation. The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate. In subsequent elections, Thai Nation Party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

Can you not understand your own quote Suthep basher ?

Out of 592 plots that were given to 489 farmers only 11 were wealthy families.

Meaning that the other 478 farmers were not wealthy.

This land was given to those who had a history of occupation of the land, in some cases for generations.

Why should any segment who had that history be left out just because of their financial status ?