Thaksin Returns As Pm

[tettyan]

Those allegations against the Democrats are still just that - allegations. I have seen nothing out there put out by anyone to back it up.

Just because you haven't seen anything doesn't mean that the allegations have been ignored.

There was a report in todays Nation, that at least one case involving the democrat party has been forwarded to the OAG from the EC.

I'm having difficulty locating that article as described. Do you have a link to that story?

The only report I found was the Attorney General is considering an appeal, not from the EC, but from TRT-government supporter Surapong Towijakchaikul, leader of something called the "Network of People's Power for Democracy" to disband the Democrat Party on a totally unrelated manner.

That article, coincidentally, is certainly more damaging to TRT than it is to the Democrats:

Attorney-General faults EC for double standards

Commission accused of failing to record its conclusion

The Office of the Attorney General (OAG) and critics yesterday blamed the Election Commission (EC) for failing to indicate if the Thai Rak Thai Party had violated the law and if it should be dissolved when it passed on the evidence to the OAG.

Continued here:

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/06/08/pol...cs_30006045.php

-------------------------------------------------------

however, if there's another article as you describe, I'd be very happy to read it.

I think this is what Slimdog is referring to. I suggest he read it again. Here is the relevant section:

In the meantime, an OAG panel had been considering an appeal filed by politician Surapong Towijakchaikul, seeking the dissolution of the Democrat Party, Atthaphol said.

The appeal claimed the Democrats illegally invoked Article 7 of the Constitution to ask for a "royally-sponsored prime minister" to replace caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, which is an offence punishable by party dissolution.

Where is the reference to the EC here?

Well Jesus, if that kind of "offense" is punishable by party dissolution, then so should promising not to help constituencies that don't vote for your party. I strongly disagreed with the Dems' call for invoking Article 7, but please tell me exactly how just proposing such an idea in itself violates the constitution? And don't just say a very highly respected figure ridiculed the idea himself - if everyone he criticised in that speech should be banned from politics, there would be no one left to run the country.

[slimdog]

As you stated, the original case was thrown out on the grounds that the plaintiff didn't have the authority to loge the complaint.

I was under the understanding that it was then passed onto the EC as the matter was related to a political party, who then forwarded it onto the OAG to decide whether the case had merit.

[sriracha john]

It's a go-nowhere claim... cluttering up an already clogged judicial and prosecutorial system.

[Old Man River]

Those allegations against the Democrats are still just that - allegations. I have seen nothing out there put out by anyone to back it up.

Just because you haven't seen anything doesn't mean that the allegations have been ignored.

There was a report in todays Nation, that at least one case involving the democrat party has been forwarded to the OAG from the EC.

I'm having difficulty locating that article as described. Do you have a link to that story?

The only report I found was the Attorney General is considering an appeal, not from the EC, but from TRT-government supporter Surapong Towijakchaikul, leader of something called the "Network of People's Power for Democracy" to disband the Democrat Party on a totally unrelated manner.

That article, coincidentally, is certainly more damaging to TRT than it is to the Democrats:

Attorney-General faults EC for double standards

Commission accused of failing to record its conclusion

The Office of the Attorney General (OAG) and critics yesterday blamed the Election Commission (EC) for failing to indicate if the Thai Rak Thai Party had violated the law and if it should be dissolved when it passed on the evidence to the OAG.

Continued here:

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/06/08/pol...cs_30006045.php

-------------------------------------------------------

however, if there's another article as you describe, I'd be very happy to read it.

I think this is what Slimdog is referring to. I suggest he read it again. Here is the relevant section:

In the meantime, an OAG panel had been considering an appeal filed by politician Surapong Towijakchaikul, seeking the dissolution of the Democrat Party, Atthaphol said.

The appeal claimed the Democrats illegally invoked Article 7 of the Constitution to ask for a "royally-sponsored prime minister" to replace caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, which is an offence punishable by party dissolution.

Where is the reference to the EC here?

Well Jesus, if that kind of "offense" is punishable by party dissolution, then so should promising not to help constituencies that don't vote for your party. I strongly disagreed with the Dems' call for invoking Article 7, but please tell me exactly how just proposing such an idea in itself violates the constitution? And don't just say a very highly respected figure ridiculed the idea himself - if everyone he criticised in that speech should be banned from politics, there would be no one left to run the country.

Don't strongly disagree with the Dems calling for the invocation of Article 7 too hastily. Remember when the PAD gave the PM 48 hours to resign? A lot was going on behind the scenes, and the Democrates were disagreeing with the PAD on a number of issues. On the Friday evening when the 48 hours expired, the Democrates had a rally of their own. It was publicly reported that their view was contra to that of the PAD and they didn't support calling on HM The King to remove the PM, but rather they called on the PM to approach HM The King and resign on his own accord. Unless the Dems changed their minds over that weekend and it was not publicly reported, then they were not part of the request for the invocation of Article 7.

[ovenman]

It's a go-nowhere claim... cluttering up an already clogged judicial and prosecutorial system

But then, isn't bury 'em with paperwork the whole point?

[slimdog]

The irony is that there is a fairly good chance that the constitutional court will have to invoke article 7 of the constitution if/when they dissolve the TRT party.

tettyan

To answer your question, No I don't think the Democrat party should be dissolved for trying to invoke article 7. What I was trying to point out, was that the EC gets hundreds of cases every election, for the vast majority nothing is ever written until a verdict has been reached, this doesn't mean that the EC are not looking at allegations, by law they have to investigate every allegation made.

Any way it would appear the EC have a few more problems as the criminal case against them has just beeen accepted by the courts

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30006055

[ando]

The date has already been decided, October 15th. Today is the last day for MPs to switch parties before the 90 day rule comes into effect. The EC doesn't need a quorum, it didn't have one at the last election either. Thai Rak Thai has said the date may change if a new EC replaces the current one. It can't issue the royal decree until at least 60 days prior to the election, which gives the EC another 10 weeks to hang on and then they can claim immunity when the new election is called.

Its all a bit fuzzy, but it does appear from what I can find out on the net that fresh elections should be held on the 15 October. Strange that the courts should think the EC has authority to act on some matters but not others without a quorum. It appears that there are times when expediency does have some advantages over consistency, especially if you are in a position to make up the rules as you go.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6051600709.html

[Plus]

15 October date was set by the Cabinet. The Royal decree hasn't been issued yet. Unless something extraordinary happens, like if TRT is dissolved, everyone will stick by that date. The courts haven't considered the legality of the new date yet.

[ando]

I believe the courts are doing the best they can within the framework of the law as it currently stands. The EC is the one "missing the point" by turning a deaf ear to practically everyone's call for them to vacate.

Well practically everyone who favours the Democrats anyway,-- but certainly not the vast majority of voting public in Thailand.

[sriracha john]

I believe the courts are doing the best they can within the framework of the law as it currently stands. The EC is the one "missing the point" by turning a deaf ear to practically everyone's call for them to vacate.

Well practically everyone who favours the Democrats anyway,-- but certainly not the vast majority of voting public in Thailand.

I think at this point it's impossible to gauge just what the voting public in Thailand would want. It's been 17 months since a legitimate election.

For all the reasons the Supreme Court has encouraged them to resign, not the least of which is squandering huge amounts precious taxpayer's baht on a nullified election, it's a prudent and quite reasonable step for them to take responsibility for their actions.

Every coherent and learned opinion I've read asks for the same thing for the EC to step down. Other than a few close and vested interests to the EC who are saying they should stick to their guns and go against the Supreme Court; are there any others that are saying this?

[ando]

The courts have been charged with getting Thailand's political system back on track ASAP and within the law. Something that has a very "future tense" connotation to it. But what do they do but put the countries future on hold while they go back in time and look at the possible wrongs committed at the LAST nullified election.

The "law" is what preventing the courts from just out-right dumping the EC. They are not empowered to do so.

Perhaps it is not a good idea to let the courts venture into politics? The courts expertise is in the area of law. Once the judiciary venture into the political arena it opens up a whole new sphere of vested interested and other agendas. Most modern democracies have accepted the principal of "the separation of powers". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

It is becoming more apparent as the days go by that the Thai courts have their own agendas for political reform rather than the task of expediting new fair and democratic elections. The courts strategic maneuvering to oust the EC is a pretty typical example of their foray into politics. They have no power to dismiss the EC so they are using their position to harass the EC through public comment. This is really not the task the courts have been asked to do.

The courts have been charged with getting the country back on track within the law. Unfortunately this opens up a wedge where certain individuals a selectively enforce the law for political reasons. Such is the reason why most advanced democracies adhere to the concept of "the separation of powers".

But as we know, Thailand is but a juvenile democracy in transition. It will take some time to get the rules right to fit their particular political culture.

I hope the judiciary can do a better job than the military in overseeing democracy.

[ando]

Well practically everyone who favours the Democrats anyway,-- but certainly not the vast majority of voting public in Thailand.

I think at this point it's impossible to gauger just what the voting public in Thailand would want. It's been 17 months since a legitimate election.

For all the reasons the Supreme Court has encouraged them to resign, not the least of which is squandering huge amounts precious taxpayer's baht on a nullified election, it's a prudent and quite reasonable step for them to take responsibility for their actions.

Every coherent and learned opinion I've read asks for the same thing for the EC to step down. Other than a few close and vested interests to the EC who are saying they should stick to their guns and go against the Supreme Court; are there any others that are saying this?

I dont mean this to be personal, but I think you are talking BS and the views of your " learned and coherent" friends do not reflect the views of the vast majority of Thais.

And I dont think its impossible at all to to gague what the vast majority of Thais want . Everyone with half a brain knows that Thaksin and TRT is what the majority of Thai voters want ! The intellectuals and academics in the cities however appear to have a very different view.

Talk about prudent, responsible and reasonable. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to call it anything they want. But the fact remains that a minority of educated individuals are trying to wrestle power from the democratically elected government elected by the majority. Now, it may well be better for the country in the short term if these educated elete get into political power and reform things for now. But TIT and the culture of corruption and nepotism would soon turn such utopia into hel_l without the checks and balances of democracy. The long hard slog of making true democracy work is going to be the best way to get long term prosperity and happiness for everyone

Without getting into the pros and cons of who should govern Thailand, I have to say that I am one of those people who believe the fundamental rule of democracy is majority rule at he ballot box. I know its not always the best thing for the country (any country), but its the best system available to to stop the minority exploiting the majority.

[sriracha john]

I think at this point it's impossible to gauger just what the voting public in Thailand would want. It's been 17 months since a legitimate election.

For all the reasons the Supreme Court has encouraged them to resign, not the least of which is squandering huge amounts precious taxpayer's baht on a nullified election, it's a prudent and quite reasonable step for them to take responsibility for their actions.

Every coherent and learned opinion I've read asks for the same thing for the EC to step down. Other than a few close and vested interests to the EC who are saying they should stick to their guns and go against the Supreme Court; are there any others that are saying this?

I dont mean this to be personal, but I think you are talking BS and the views of your " learned and coherent" friends do not reflect the views of the vast majority of Thais.

And I dont think its impossible at all to to gague what the vast majority of Thais want . Everyone with half a brain knows that Thaksin and TRT is what the majority of Thai voters want !

How do we know that? By one of those inaccurate ABAC polls? Word of mouth? Nothing too accurate about that on a national level, either.

As said, the only gauge was done back in Jan. 2005. Since then we have had nothing but a discarded election which thus nullifies it as any valid gauge of what the voting public wants.

The intellectuals and academics in the cities however appear to have a very different view.

Talk about prudent, responsible and reasonable. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to call it anything they want. But the fact remains that a minority of educated individuals are trying to wrestle power from the democratically elected government elected by the majority.

I see it as the government themselves gave that power up when Parliament was dissolved. Now there is no real power in the government and we will all have to wait and see what happens in the next true election.

Now, it may well be better for the country in the short term if these educated elete get into political power and reform things for now. But TIT and the culture of corruption and nepotism would soon turn such utopia into hel_l without the checks and balances of democracy. The long hard slog of making true democracy work is going to be the best way to get long term prosperity and happiness for everyone.

I agree. That's why I applaude all the democratic principles that have been employed thus far to effect change. Thaksin making the bonehead decision to remove his government from power by dissolving Parliament and then later on to resign his post have just been side benefits and something that he can only blame on himself as he is the one that took both actions.

Without getting into the pros and cons of who should govern Thailand, I have to say that I am one of those people who believe the fundamental rule of democracy is majority rule at he ballot box. I know its not always the best thing for the country (any country), but its the best system available to to stop the minority exploiting the majority.

Once again, I agree that real democracy will come about from the ballot box. Hopefully, for the next true election those things will come to pass.

[Plus]

It is becoming more apparent as the days go by that the Thai courts have their own agendas for political reform rather than the task of expediting new fair and democratic elections. The courts strategic maneuvering to oust the EC is a pretty typical example of their foray into politics. They have no power to dismiss the EC so they are using their position to harass the EC through public comment. This is really not the task the courts have been asked to do.

I don't see any political reform agenda in courts actions. All they do is to ensure that fair and democratic elections can take place. They feel that the EC is not qualified to supervise the elections and they advised so. EC refused to step down. Courts hinted than the EC will be dealt with the hard way - courts can't dismiss the EC right away, but it's their responsibility to rule on all those lawsuits filed against the EC for dereliction of duty. They'll do it as fast as possible. If EC commissioners resigned now it would save the country a lot of time.

How can you not see that it's the EC that is delaying the process? They stand no chance in court - one charge or another will bring them down.

About separation of powers - where exactly do you see the problem? The courts are not making any executive decisions, they just rule on legality of others actions - the EC, TRT, Thaksin himself.

About "judges should resign, not politicians" - you took that quote out of contest, which was this: hundreds of thousands of people where holding daily rallies, appealing to the King to interfere because they lost all trust in judicial system. The King then addressed this exact problem - the judiciary - if they enforce all the laws, rules, and regualtions, people won't have a reason to take to streets. And that's what the courts have been doing since.

If they fail to ensure justice, they should resign. You, on the other hand, advocate that they should forget the justice for the sake of expediency - exactly opposite of what the King said, and exactly what brought as here in the first place.

[lukamar]

Once again, I agree that real democracy will come about from the ballot box. Hopefully, for the next true election those things will come to pass.

This is just a general comment. If the TRT is dissolved you will be back to a one party (the 3 opposition parties are basically a coalition or have been for many months) and HM specifically said that a one party system was NOT democratic. So if another election is called and run without the TRT could it also be annulled under similar constitutional issues? I think a good lawyer could make that case.

What I see is a Thailand that is becoming polarized, the South, the Bangkok area and the North. This geographical separation into groups all wanting something different and feeling left out of the loop could well cause worsening problems for generations. If the north goes the way of the south with even a few violent groups as the southern insurgents have, it could very well bring an end to Thailand as we know it.

The courts rather than fixing the situation are using it, as ando said, to cement their position as the most powerful group in Thailand. Personally I don't think that is what was meant by fix the problem.

I think at this point it's impossible to gauger just what the voting public in Thailand would want. It's been 17 months since a legitimate election.

Sorry but you can figure that out without a poll. The North is still very pro Thaksin & TRT, the South still anti Thaksin & TRT and Bangkok is a crap-shoot, it could go any way depending on how they feel at the time.

If the TRT is dissolved they could just use the same tactics as the PAD, and run a huge" Vote NO Vote" campaign and maybe just landslide the others. 16 million plus No Votes. Then What?

[John K]

System support message:

Case number: 100.30.45E13.45.46N

Start date: January 2001

System Name: Thailand

Problem description:

In January 2001 the program thaksin.exe was installed. At first thaksin.exe seemed to be working properly as systems that were functioning poorly began to perform better. After about 6 months some of the supporting programs in the democratic sub routines started to show signs of inconsistency in their output. Some of the output was being directed through thaksin.exe. Over time more and more systems began to show signs of corruption and failure. When a system upgrade was attempted in 2005, many of the subsystems rejected the upgrade. It is believed buyvote.dll was largely responsible for the rejections. Thaksin.exe was beginning to write some subroutines of its own. Thaksin.exe set up filters in the I/O system that filtered out any programs, data, and other input that could disable thaksin.exe. The I/O filters began to spread to several systems of input including, print.exe, blog.dll, webjrnl.exe, tv.exe, radio.exe. The I/O filters used the legalattack subroutine, harass.dll, and arrest.exe to protect thaksin.exe. Several more programs on the democratic subroutines began to fail as thaksin.exe began to consume more system resources. Late last year the system59 platform issued an indirect command to disable thaksin.exe from using the legalattack subroutine. The command however only worked for less than 6 months before the legalattack subroutine was once again being used by thaksin.exe. Then skim.dll and crony.exe began to overwhelm the system. This cause the democratic system to launch pad.exe and streetprotest.exe to overwhelm thaksin.exe. This cause thaksin.exe to launch trashlowhouse.exe. That caused the program ec.exe to launch. This was countered by novote.dll. When that happened it was discovered that ec.exe had been corrupted by thaksin.exe or trt.exe. Then thaksin.exe initiated falsequit.dll and appeared to enter hibernation mode. However thaksin.exe was still fully operational and came back on line shortly after. At this point the system59 platform initiated the cleaning program courts.exe as it became apparent that thaksin.exe may no longer be responding to the system59 platform. There were also indications that thaksin.exe was trying to install the finland platform over the system59 platform. Courts.exe discovered that ec.exe could no longer process properly as several of the supporting dll files were damaged or missing thus sending a disable command to stop ec.exe. However ec.exe rejected the comand and continued to work on several processes in cache. Prior to that cctv.dll discovered trt.exe was allocating resources to smaller programs with payoff.dll to override novote.dll. This was verified by pi.exe and a txt file was compiled and sent to ec.exe to process. However by that time ec.exe was already malfunctioning and would not process the file. After about a week after that the malfunctioning ec.exe sent a incomplete const63 trt command to attygen.exe. However thaksin.exe and trt.exe where trying to disable the command with stall.dll before it could be properly compiled and sent to courts.exe. If the properly compiled command reaches courts.exe then there is a strong possibility that const63 trt would delete trt.exe. However there is a concern that thaksin.exe has damaged the system supporting programs to such an extent that it would no longer function. This would force courts.exe to initiate the reboot command const7 and reload from ROM. At the moment all system resources are being used with the change of platform from system59 to system60. The installation is expected to take 5 days. However there is a concern that thaksin.exe is still processing during the upgrade when all programs should be down.

[penzman]

Sorry but you can figure that out without a poll. The North is still very pro Thaksin & TRT, the South still anti Thaksin & TRT and Bangkok is a crap-shoot, it could go any way depending on how they feel at the time.

If the TRT is dissolved they could just use the same tactics as the PAD, and run a huge" Vote NO Vote" campaign and maybe just landslide the others. 16 million plus No Votes. Then What?

Until they are FULLY exposed to what really went on (within TRT along with Thaksin and others plus the consequences of their acts) and figure out they've been used. More will surface that WE weren't even aware of.

Edited June 8, 2006 by penzman

[John K]

Sorry but you can figure that out without a poll. The North is still very pro Thaksin & TRT, the South still anti Thaksin & TRT and Bangkok is a crap-shoot, it could go any way depending on how they feel at the time.

If the TRT is dissolved they could just use the same tactics as the PAD, and run a huge" Vote NO Vote" campaign and maybe just landslide the others. 16 million plus No Votes. Then What?

Until they are exposed to what really went on (within TRT along with Thaksin and others plus the consequences of their acts) and figure out they've been used. More will surface that WE weren't even aware of.

I don’t think so. From a few friends here that have visited their families in Isaan and they say that the people there are very short sited. Its day to day living there. Thaksin knows this and he exploits it to no end. Don’t forget there is a big lack of education there. It may be over their heads to see this. They may only react if Thaksin is seen to be showing no respect to the King. How they would interoperate that I have no clue.

[lukamar]

Don’t forget there is a big lack of education there. It may be over their heads to see this.

Yes.. We all know that they are all stupid uneducated rice farmers and that everything goes way over their heads. Problem is they are the voting majority in Thailand and stupid, uneducated or uniformed they will remain the voting majority for some time to come and have the power to swing a government any way they like and at the moment they still like the TRT and Thaksin. Even if TRT is dissolved this then mythical entity will hold enormous power in the North. If they have the people vote "No Vote" and it's an overwhelming majority, unlike the last no vote, there are a lot of people who will have to rethink their stance and the election could well be annulled again or brought to another halt while everyone regroups. Just something to think about.

[John K]

Stupid I would say no. uneducated yes. They are wise and humble people. What this thread is about is truly not part of their world, however it does effect them. I greatly respect the people of Isaan so please don’t get me wrong on that. However I do feel sad that they are just pawns in Thaksin’s game.

Edited June 8, 2006 by john Krukowski

[ColPyat]

Stupid I would say no. uneducated yes. They are wise and humble people. What this thread is about is truly not part of their world, however it does effect them. I greatly respect the people of Isaan so please don’t get me wrong on that. However I do feel sad that they are just pawns in Thaksin’s game.

It's not just the people in Isaarn, it's also the people in the at least equally impoverished North.

They have enough education to remember that under the Democrat government they had no help or assistence whatsoever. The only thing that counts for them is that at least under Thaksin they get some share of the cake.

They are aware of Thaksin's corruption, but for them it is a choice between a corrupt prime minister that gives them something, and a slightly less corrupt party under whose governments they got nothing.

As long as the Democrats cannot formulate any policy that takes those rural poor into account, and can't get themselves to communicate these so far non-existant policies to these people, these people will choose Thaksin as it is in their interest to have Thaksin as PM.

The Democrats are unfortunately so far the only alternative for TRT, but to be a viable alternative they have to start functioning as a national political party, and not a party representing one region (the south) and one class (urban based middle and upper classes).

[lukamar]

However I do feel sad that they are just pawns in Thaksin’s game.

They have been pawns in the Siam/Thai power struggle for hundreds of years, there is nothing new there, and it's not just Thaksin that has used the northern people for his gains. The thing they see is only Thaksin and his party have actually provided help, or help as they perceive it, even if most of us see it as otherwise. As for the Democrats, Pyat said it all, they never helped the north while in power and are not looked upon as a group that would start any time soon. no mater what the Democrats promised them for the future.

[John K]

So then we should send some workable ideas to the Democrats. I am sure they wont mind too much if we help them past their problems.

[lukamar]

So then we should send some workable ideas to the Democrats. I am sure they wont mind too much if we help them past their problems.

Yes feel free to send your ideas to them they need the help but it's going to take more than a month or two of campaigning and some ideas before an election to win over the Northerners. The problem is, or as i have been told, that the Democrats arrive for campaigning promise all sorts of things and then as soon as the election is over return to the city never to be heard from again until the next election, win or loose. Maybe TS did use the Northerners to get the TRT elected but THEY, not me, see the TRT and Thaksin as a group finally listening to their problems and to some extent dealing with it. After all Thaksin is looked at as one of them, he speaks their language. Maybe those TRT handouts doesn't really help them in the long run, maybe it actually puts them behind but they see it as progress and they see their vote finally meaning something. Until the Demo's are willing to be there in the villages 24/7/365 they will be seen as trying to rule the North from the South and the City. Northerners have finally tasted the forbidden fruit and they will not go back to the way it was.

[lukamar]

Until they are FULLY exposed to what really went on (within TRT along with Thaksin and others plus the consequences of their acts) and figure out they've been used.

Pez Northerners are aware that Thaksin is making a bundle off Thailand and that he is corrupt as h_ll. The fact of the matter is - They don't care. They don't care because they have no alternative. Before the North will vote for someone else they will have to show that they will continue to help the North and that isn't happening with any other party at the moment and it doesn't look like anyone is working toward that end other than TRT.

The opposition parties all know there is going to be an election, where are they campaigning? Nowhere is Where.... They are in court trying to get rid of their opposition any way they can because they can't beat them in a fair or fixed election and they know it. They may have the TRT dissolved and be in a worse loose loose situation with the North because the North would see the Democrats also as using trickery to try and gain power.

[ando]

It would be a sad day for democracy in Thailand if government were virtually handed to the Democrats via the courts decision to disband the TRT. And of course that is exactly what the Democrats election strategy consists of, -- getting into power through the back door without the support of the majority of voters. Government by default and against the wishes of the majority is not democracy.

The people of Issarn are spread over a wide area and dont have the ability to form large protests in the countries capital like the city elite do. However they do have the ability to boycott an election where their only real chance of proper representation has been taken away from them. The country could well end up going round in circles.

[sriracha john]

Once again, I agree that real democracy will come about from the ballot box. Hopefully, for the next true election those things will come to pass.

This is just a general comment. If the TRT is dissolved you will be back to a one party (the 3 opposition parties are basically a coalition or have been for many months) and HM specifically said that a one party system was NOT democratic. So if another election is called and run without the TRT could it also be annulled under similar constitutional issues? I think a good lawyer could make that case.

Sorry, but at the point when His Majesty the King made that speech, Parliament had ALL TRT and only ONE mp from a different party. That IS a one party system. If TRT is dissolved and the Thirty-eight political parties divide up Parliament, that IS NOT a one party system. His Majesty DID NOT say coalitions are not undemocratic.

What I see is a Thailand that is becoming polarized, the South, the Bangkok area and the North. This geographical separation into groups all wanting something different and feeling left out of the loop could well cause worsening problems for generations. If the north goes the way of the south with even a few violent groups as the southern insurgents have, it could very well bring an end to Thailand as we know it.

The courts rather than fixing the situation are using it, as ando said, to cement their position as the most powerful group in Thailand. Personally I don't think that is what was meant by fix the problem.

The courts clearly are not the MOST powerful group. Yes, they are in the spotlight right now, but what was heard from them three months ago? Nothing.

As long as the executive branch along with the legislative branch remain the groups that select and approve judges the balance remains intact.

I think at this point it's impossible to gauger just what the voting public in Thailand would want. It's been 17 months since a legitimate election.

Sorry but you can figure that out without a poll. The North is still very pro Thaksin & TRT, the South still anti Thaksin & TRT and Bangkok is a crap-shoot, it could go any way depending on how they feel at the time.

If the TRT is dissolved they could just use the same tactics as the PAD, and run a huge" Vote NO Vote" campaign and maybe just landslide the others. 16 million plus No Votes. Then What?

With the number of parties running... and thus the 20% rule not applicable... then we have a good chance of a completed election. If TRT is dissolved, I don't see the people who voted previously for them as so die-hard TRT supporters that they "no vote." That's a very crucial difference between the last election.... the opposition parties were not dissolved parties from wrong-doing.

[sriracha john]

Additionally, if the TRT is dissolved there's no reason to believe that between the 38 parties, many of them that are very regional and local in nature, voters won't have alternatives to the Democrats. The void left by TRT leaving CAN be filled. Given these alternatives and having seen the negative results of having a drawn-out caretaker government has, I think any Issan, Northern, Eastern, Central, and Southern voter would join in and complete this democratic process.

Edited June 9, 2006 by sriracha john

[John K]

Don’t get me wrong about Thaksin. Some of the things he did were positive. However his negatives greatly outweigh his positives. He shows respect to only what he sees in the mirror. The fact that he seems to have forgotten completely a speech given in early December last year suggests his disrespect for others has no upper limit. If Thaksin shows this much disrespect to others now when he is somewhat vulnerable, I shudder to imagine what it would be like if in fact the Finland plan was complete.

I have said the before, he only bites if you hit a nerve of reality. The fact that the Finland plan is such a tender subject with him leaves no doubt in my mind that in fact it is being implemented.

This is simply much too high a price to pay. Venting in this thread is great for the people who post here and read it. However it does little to enlighten the voting Thais in the north. Enlightening them is part of what is needed to close the noose on Thaksin. Unfortunately that is a difficult task from within the borders of Bangkok.

I can remember when I was in Cebu city in September 1988. The Filipinos had just dumped Marcos. I was amazed that they asked me what I though about their new president. My answer was simple and honest. I said “She is not the answer, but she is a step in the right direction.” I think the same situation will be true once Thaksin is out of the picture in that almost anyone would be a step in the right direction.

[penzman]

Thaksin was a "spaceman" today at the celebrations. What's bothering him?

Hundreds of thousands bow at once and he doesn't.