Thaksin Returns As Pm

[ColPyat]

I have said the before, he only bites if you hit a nerve of reality. The fact that the Finland plan is such a tender subject with him leaves no doubt in my mind that in fact it is being implemented.

It is very worrying that utter lunacy such as the "Finland Plan", or "Royal Powers" are even part of earnest conversation not only by some weirdos, but by very powerful people in this country. These theories show in what sort of trouble Thai society actually finds itself.

Similar accusations and demands have in the not too distant past roused the emotions and caused the death of uncounted people.

Personally, i am extremely concerned about what might be happening after the 60 year celebrations are over.

[John K]

So are we all. But worrying solves nothing. This is a Thai matter. Our level of involvement is that of a front row spectator if you are in Bangkok. All we can do is watch history happen and provide advise if we are asked.

Penzman, am I reading this right. Did Thaksin not bow or just out of Que?

Edited June 9, 2006 by john Krukowski

[Martin]

Up here in Isaan, I have been struck today by how united the Thai people are in loyalty to their king.

I was woken before 06:00, because we 'had' to go to the District Offices to attend the ceremonies. (And there were rice-farmer families and monks there who had travelled in 30km along largely-unpaved roads, so what time had THEY got up?).

Then the word flashed round that, for 100 baht, there was a commemorative note available at the bank. They sold out quickly---and that is to people who only get 120 bahts for a day's hard and dirty work in the Chinaman's sugar plantations.

And then, on tv, we saw the immense crowds in Bangkok, all in their yellow shirts and waving their flags.

Yet, when it comes to politics (which is the deciding of what the country/nation should do) it is a dis-united kingdom. TRT/Thaksin got the votes here, because he is not from the South, but that is all. There is no deep involvement in what political parties would do with their power if they were voted in.

And it will be a long time before there is.

When I look at how young people in Western countries arrive at voting age aware that politics is important, I see the influence of parents, teachers and the memories of strongly-contested elections at work. All that is only in its infancy here, as yet.

And it has little chance of growing, so long as the metropolitan region keeps a virtual monopoly on attractively-waged employment and bleeds the rural areas of its bright youngsters.

It won't be till they can commute to good jobs in the provincial towns and cities, rather than having to migrate to Central Thailand that this country will get some strength of unity.

At the beginning of this crisis, some commentator in Bangkok explained: "In Thailand, the Government is put in by the people in the provinces, and put out by the people in Bangkok".

He could have added: "It is both fortunate and unfortunate that the people in the provinces aren't miffed by this, as to them it is no big deal".

The pessimist in me fears that we are in for a right mess, but the optimist in me thinks Thailand will muddle through.

Who was it who observed: "The evil in Man makes Democracy necessary. Fortunately the good in Man makes Democracy possible!"?

[jdinasia]

Not sure I agree with that analysis ..... having the youth of Thailand moving to where the work is is no different than any other country/state etc. Plus it ties BKK etc more closely to the provinces!

[Old Man River]

I have said the before, he only bites if you hit a nerve of reality. The fact that the Finland plan is such a tender subject with him leaves no doubt in my mind that in fact it is being implemented.

It is very worrying that utter lunacy such as the "Finland Plan", or "Royal Powers" are even part of earnest conversation not only by some weirdos, but by very powerful people in this country. These theories show in what sort of trouble Thai society actually finds itself.

Similar accusations and demands have in the not too distant past roused the emotions and caused the death of uncounted people.

Personally, i am extremely concerned about what might be happening after the 60 year celebrations are over.

Colpyat, the Finland pact as reported is not real, but there is something out there that has people concerned.

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, the Finland pact as reported is not real, but there is something out there that has people concerned.

I doubt that it could be real.

What is real though is that certain vested interests do attempt to rouse the rabble by playing up to their fears by propagating this lunatic conspiracy theory.

[penzman]

Penzman, am I reading this right. Did Thaksin not bow or just out of Que?

I did not see him bow but I suspect he was distracted by nervousness and other personal matters.

[John K]

Penzman, am I reading this right. Did Thaksin not bow or just out of Que?

I did not see him bow but I suspect he was distracted by nervousness and other personal matters.

I am sure that is a possibility. If the people of Isaan see that it is possible they could see it as disrespect to the King.

On another note something totally amazing happened to me tonight. I stopped to get a bite to eat on Sukhumvit 23. After I finished eating I cut through Soi Cowboy at about 7:30 as a shortcut to the subway underpass. All the bars had momentarily closes and all the bar girls were out in the soi holding candles and singing. It was a sight to behold, yellow shirts from soi 23 to Asok. At that moment it occurred to me it was not just what was in eye sight but the entire country singing in unison phrasing the King. Needless to say I was deeply moved. It made me forget for those few minutes the problems of politics as I saw the entire country of Thailand unite behind the banner of the King. Add to that the images on tv of hundreds of thousands of people singing at the official ceremony across town at the same time, and it was a moment in world history I was experiencing first hand. I must say I am very proud to be in Thailand and experiencing this moment. The King of Thailand is not only a shining jewel in Thailand, he is a bright spot if not the brightest spot in the world. The sea of yellow I saw today combined with the smiling faces of the people wearing the shirts reaffirmed my belief that Thailand is truly a wonderful place and that it should be preserved from people who seek to take advantage of the kind and loving nature of Thailand’s people. I too was wearing a yellow shirt that had the crest of the King on the pocket. The smiles and compliments given to me were truly heart felt from the Thais giving them as I was receiving them. I sincerely hope the King’s reign will last many years to come. Long live the King. I hope his example with be the template for the world.

[ColPyat]

The sea of yellow I saw today combined with the smiling faces of the people wearing the shirts reaffirmed my belief that Thailand is truly a wonderful place and that it should be preserved from people who seek to take advantage of the kind and loving nature of Thailand’s people.

"Kind" and "loving" nature ...

...to be "preserved" - pathetic!

When you come down from your romantic trip, have a look at the murder statistics of Thailand, please...

[Martin]

Maybe the above two posts can be reconciled.

In my better moments, I am kind and loving.

And in my worse ones, I am a grumpy old git.

Without the parenting that I had, and various other influences, I might well be a reprehensible villain.

Isn't it all a struggle between good and evil?

So let us be thankful for (and praise) the good traits we see, and curse (and work against) the evil that crops up.

[ando]

Jai Yen, Jai Lawn can sometimes mean Jeckle and Hyde!

[John K]

Maybe the above two posts can be reconciled.

In my better moments, I am kind and loving.

And in my worse ones, I am a grumpy old git.

Without the parenting that I had, and various other influences, I might well be a reprehensible villain.

Isn't it all a struggle between good and evil?

So let us be thankful for (and praise) the good traits we see, and curse (and work against) the evil that crops up.

Yes Martin good point, we all get up on the wrong side of the bed from time to time.

It seems so natural to see the Thais unite behind the banner of the King. Yet we see some also unite behind the banner of greed and corruption. It seems hard to think that both could exist at the same time. The ones behind the banner of greed and corruption seem less comfortable and more uncertain about their choice. That is particularly true in recent days.

I was just so taken by the moment. It was not something I would expect to see taking a shortcut through soi cowboy.

Edited June 9, 2006 by john Krukowski

[John K]

Maybe the above two posts can be reconciled.

In my better moments, I am kind and loving.

And in my worse ones, I am a grumpy old git.

Without the parenting that I had, and various other influences, I might well be a reprehensible villain.

Isn't it all a struggle between good and evil?

So let us be thankful for (and praise) the good traits we see, and curse (and work against) the evil that crops up.

It does leave me wondering about what my place is in all of this mess. Perhaps eyes for the blind.

Edited June 10, 2006 by john Krukowski

[sriracha john]

Thaksin.

Hundreds of thousands bow at once and he doesn't.

He doesn't feel obligated to do so.....

btw, a photo of that scene is sellable...

[ando]

Not sure I agree with that analysis ..... having the youth of Thailand moving to where the work is is no different than any other country/state etc. Plus it ties BKK etc more closely to the provinces!

True, but just to put things in a bit clearer perspective,--

50% of Thais are employed in agriculture and produce 9% of GDP.

In USA its less than 1% in agriculture producing 1% of GDP.

In Australia its 4% producing around 4% of GDP.

Source-- http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...os/th.html#Econ

Its pretty easy to figure out that there is not much future in traditional types of farming for the young ones if they are given a choice.

Edited June 10, 2006 by ando

[Martin]

Re post #375:

I am optimistic about Thailand because I think the message is getting through that GDP does not measure 'quality of life' for any society.

We grow our own rice here in the village. So our meals add nothing to GDP.

If I worked in the city and we used my income to buy California rice, then Thailand's GDP would be bigger. And America's, and Greece's (presuming the rice came on a Greek-owned ship).

But the 'quality of life' of my family would be less as I would leave in a morning as a grumpy old git who had an hour's drive on ever-more-expensive fuel ahead of him and would come back as a grumpy old git who was pisssed off with the traffic on the highway.

[John K]

Thaksin.

Hundreds of thousands bow at once and he doesn't.

He doesn't feel obligated to do so.....

btw, a photo of that scene is sellable...

Sellable yes, flood copies of it around northern Thailand and inside a week you may just find him floating face down in the river heading for the prawns.

[sriracha john]

Deputy PM sidesteps question whether he would resign

Caretaker Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Kreangam Friday refused to comment over a rumour that he and other two other ministers would resign after His Majesty the King's celebration.

"Would you allow me not to answer your question?" Wissanu asked reporters when asked if Education Minister Chaturon Chaisang, deputy premier Surakiart Sathirathai and he would resign after the events.

"I do not even know if I will resign, so how can other people know?

Continued here:

http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30006164

-------------------------------------------------------------------

side-stepping at it's finest... a definitive "NO!" is how most people squash a rumor...

well, I guess we've had a glimpse of next week's news... The loss of 2 Deputy Prime Ministers and the Education Minister...

The sinking SS Thai Rak Thai's lifeboats are over-flowing...

[Martin]

Ships have the right to desert sinking rats.

[John K]

Four officers to face punishment related to CCTV picture leak

Two military officers have been targeted for criminal proceedings and other two for disciplinary punishment for their involvement in leaking CCTV pictures that linked caretaker Defence Minister Thamarak Isarangura to the funding of small parties.

The investigation concluded that four officers in charge of Defence Ministry security were responsible for the pictures leak, Defence permanent secretary General Sirichai Thanyasiri said Thursday.

"Evidence showed nine CCTV pictures were transmitted without authorisation via e-mails," Sirichai said.

Based on the investigative report, Sergeant Major Supoj Phanphet was in charge of monitoring the CCTV and responsible for retrieving the pictures. He confessed to the crime

Evidence showed Supoj's supervisor Lieutenant Narongsak Premsuk transmitting the pictures. He has yet to enter his plea.

Sirichai said Supoj and Narongsak would be tried on charges relating to the disclosure of classified information.

The two will be suspended from duty pending the outcome of litigation, he said.

Lieutenant Colonel Kuru Sensiriwattana, head of security guards and Colonel Arvuth Saengtawan, chief of security for Defence Ministry building, will be on probation for one year as disciplinary punishment for lapse of supervision, he said.

The Nation

[ando]

Re post #375:

I am optimistic about Thailand because I think the message is getting through that GDP does not measure 'quality of life' for any society.

We grow our own rice here in the village. So our meals add nothing to GDP.

If I worked in the city and we used my income to buy California rice, then Thailand's GDP would be bigger. And America's, and Greece's (presuming the rice came on a Greek-owned ship).

But the 'quality of life' of my family would be less as I would leave in a morning as a grumpy old git who had an hour's drive on ever-more-expensive fuel ahead of him and would come back as a grumpy old git who was pisssed off with the traffic on the highway.

Hello Martin,

A large part of my Thai family also live up in the north and they too grow their own rice. All the basics are available locally and at a lot less than city prices. Life is peacefull and relatively cheap. Though not exactly easy for the locals who work 12 hours a day 7 days a week in the markets or on the farm. My Thai family up in the north are among the lucky ones in the village. They live in substantial wooden houses and the family group which comprises about 20 individuals including kids. The family group owns 2 pick-ups and a couple of motorbikes between them. But thats only been made possible because at any given time about half the adults are away in Bangkok working.

Living IS cheap up country, but wages for farm work are a lot less than in the city factories.

Quality of life is a hard thing to gague as it means different things to different people. For a farang living up country the quality of life might be good when he can afford to go to Bangkok for proper medical and dental care. I doubt the local farmers would complain much about having to drive one hour down the highway to buy rice if they had ten times the income, owned a pick up and didnt have to work 12 hours a day for a living. Still, even though they have a pretty tough life with a life expectancy much less than ours, we dont hear them complaining much. But does that mean they are happy with their lot in life up in rural Issarn? I think the exodus to the cities for those who can speaks for itself.

[John K]

I think we just found the next PM and 3 of his top advisors.

[ando]

It does leave me wondering about what my place is in all of this mess. Perhaps eyes for the blind.

Or perhaps a little excessive in the self admiration stakes?

[John K]

I’m just along for the ride, forgive me for posting an inner though.

[ando]

I’m just along for the ride, forgive me for posting an inner though.

OK, your figiven :-) Sometimes the written word doesnt truely express exactly what we mean.

[penzman]

Thaksin.

Hundreds of thousands bow at once and he doesn't.

He doesn't feel obligated to do so.....

btw, a photo of that scene is sellable...

I'm surprised that moment hasn't caught anyone's attention... or maybe we'll hear about it later on, out of respect during these celebrations. If yesterday's ceremonies are available on DVD, I'll come up with a picture of it.

[ColPyat]

Hello Martin,

A large part of my Thai family also live up in the north and they too grow their own rice. All the basics are available locally and at a lot less than city prices. Life is peacefull and relatively cheap. Though not exactly easy for the locals who work 12 hours a day 7 days a week in the markets or on the farm. My Thai family up in the north are among the lucky ones in the village. They live in substantial wooden houses and the family group which comprises about 20 individuals including kids. The family group owns 2 pick-ups and a couple of motorbikes between them. But thats only been made possible because at any given time about half the adults are away in Bangkok working.

Living IS cheap up country, but wages for farm work are a lot less than in the city factories.

Quality of life is a hard thing to gague as it means different things to different people. For a farang living up country the quality of life might be good when he can afford to go to Bangkok for proper medical and dental care. I doubt the local farmers would complain much about having to drive one hour down the highway to buy rice if they had ten times the income, owned a pick up and didnt have to work 12 hours a day for a living. Still, even though they have a pretty tough life with a life expectancy much less than ours, we dont hear them complaining much. But does that mean they are happy with their lot in life up in rural Issarn? I think the exodus to the cities for those who can speaks for itself.

Excellent post!

My wifes family was one of unlucky ones up north. Formerly no land, not even their own houses. Barely surviving - in a constant flux between the village and the suburban industrial zones of Bangkok. They laughed and smiled a lot, but happy they were not.

And this exodus to the cities, especially to the parts of the cities they have to live, is a timebomb. These zones, hidden away in the industrial suburbs, are nightmares of crime, drugs and violence.

Not much to see of the 'Land of Smile' there anymore. Spending some time in those areas does relativise a lot regarding today's Thailand.

[hammered]

Re post #375:

I am optimistic about Thailand because I think the message is getting through that GDP does not measure 'quality of life' for any society.

We grow our own rice here in the village. So our meals add nothing to GDP.

If I worked in the city and we used my income to buy California rice, then Thailand's GDP would be bigger. And America's, and Greece's (presuming the rice came on a Greek-owned ship).

But the 'quality of life' of my family would be less as I would leave in a morning as a grumpy old git who had an hour's drive on ever-more-expensive fuel ahead of him and would come back as a grumpy old git who was pisssed off with the traffic on the highway.

Hello Martin,

A large part of my Thai family also live up in the north and they too grow their own rice. All the basics are available locally and at a lot less than city prices. Life is peacefull and relatively cheap. Though not exactly easy for the locals who work 12 hours a day 7 days a week in the markets or on the farm. My Thai family up in the north are among the lucky ones in the village. They live in substantial wooden houses and the family group which comprises about 20 individuals including kids. The family group owns 2 pick-ups and a couple of motorbikes between them. But thats only been made possible because at any given time about half the adults are away in Bangkok working.

Living IS cheap up country, but wages for farm work are a lot less than in the city factories.

Quality of life is a hard thing to gague as it means different things to different people. For a farang living up country the quality of life might be good when he can afford to go to Bangkok for proper medical and dental care. I doubt the local farmers would complain much about having to drive one hour down the highway to buy rice if they had ten times the income, owned a pick up and didnt have to work 12 hours a day for a living. Still, even though they have a pretty tough life with a life expectancy much less than ours, we dont hear them complaining much. But does that mean they are happy with their lot in life up in rural Issarn? I think the exodus to the cities for those who can speaks for itself.

An interesting mini debate. I'll pitch in with the example of my Thai family. The entire family over the age of 35 are farmers in the northern region. Everyone under this age works in salaried employment in Lampang, Ayuthaya, Bangkok, or Chonburi, or are at school, college or university. As one relative put it: We try to make sure our kids get an education so that they dont have to be farmers and suffer like us. Just to be in the village where most of the family live is weird. There are just no young adults. There are only kids and the middle aged up. The young adults when we meet them are usually happy with what they do and do not intend a return to farming although quite a number miss the community of the village.

[Martin]

Hello, 'ando'. In #381, you said:

"Quality of life is a hard thing to gague as it means different things to different people."

I agree. And would add "and at different times of their lives".

No way am I starry-eyed about village life, as it is at present in Isaan.

It is not luxurious, nor mentally stimulating, nor greatly entertaining.

But it is stable and sustainable.

The point I have been making is that Thailand would be well served by making provincial life stronger through all new industrial development going elsewhere than Greater Bangkok/ Eastern Seaboard, so that there was less migration.

Villages that had some of their 'brighter' sons and daughters staying on, or coming back to them, to live as commuters to higher-paying jobs in nearby towns and cities would be better ones.

And the provinces and the country/nation would benefit.

But it can't happen without (or until there is) the political will to make it happen.

[ColPyat]

But it can't happen without (or until there is) the political will to make it happen.

Absolutely.

Personally, i believe that this whole debate on Thaksin is somewhat moot, as there is no political party who has a feasable plan or policy regarding the problems of those sectors. The problems of a eroding countryside, migration and collapse of family structures is the far more pressing problem than the corruption of one party and its leader in a political landscape where almost everyone is corrupt, and the ones who are not, are mostly religious fanatics with dangerous and unrealistic ideas of social engineering.