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Thaksin Returns As Pm


John K

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Chownah;

My post is neutral not pro or con. I am simply saying that it would be difficult to say that they forced everyone to do what they did.

Actually I agree with Hammered in that there are just too many things going on to easily predict what will happen. The only thing that is certain is the King told the judges to fix it or quit. On that note deep inside the judges do know what is right and what is wrong for the country. So I suspect there is some additional pressure on the judges to do what is right, or risk what the wrong decision would do to them personally by risking being seen as going against the King. That factor each judge must weigh before ruling. Thaksin will fall eventually and when he does the people who’s strings he is pulling will follow shortly after. So it all comes back to if you want to dance with the devil or not.

I think a few days must pass before the confusion will pass. I am beginning to wonder if it could be called “the fog of war.”

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"....... Boycotting an election that was later invalidated (ruled illegal) is also illegal? Where does the constitution say that?

.............."

I don't know if the Democrats are guilty of anything....but....it seems to me to make sense that telling people to boycott an election would be against the law regardless of whether the election was legal, was ruled illegal, or was canceled and never held at all. Conspiring to bomb a building is illegal reagardless of whether you actually bomb the building or not. Robbing a bank is illegal whether you get any money or not. I believe that the constitution says that it is illegal to encourage people to boycott an election....it does not qualify this depending on any characteristic of the election...or even if the election is even held.

That's my view....it could be wrong.

Chownah

Yes, encouraging voters NOT to go to the polls (which is required by the constitution - voting is compulsory) would be a violation of election laws and the constitution. The problem is that the Democrats did no such thing. They encouraged people to go vote - but to tick the "no vote" box while in the booth. They were very explicit about that. The "no vote" option is a constitutional right for voters - last time I checked, in civilised countries, encouraging people to exercise their constitutional rights is not a crime. But then again, we're talking about Thailand here...

Edited by tettyan
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Exactly.

The "NO VOTE" option was clearly printed, although smaller than the other options, bottom right corner" on the ballots...

I have not seen or heard the dems telling people NOT to vote but rather to opt for "No VOTE".

I also think emperor T. has made it clear that if he goes down, others must follow, EC listens and acts as he wishes. The charges against the dems and others that are facing dissolution are probably quite shaky (any recommendations from the EC's subcommittee weighing this?) and have somehow been presented in record time compared to those against TRT. The court will not play this fixed game.

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Things get more interesting all the time!

Besides not being a Thai Constitutional Lawyer ... I am also just not privy to the minds of those in power either inthe courts or the political parties ..

I am stumped!

If a valid reason can be shown for dissolving more than TRT so be it! TRT seems to be done though.I'd rather see just the bosses sone (and done well ... banned from politics for life!) but that doesn't sem to be an option. Oh well!

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If a valid reason can be shown for dissolving more than TRT so be it! TRT seems to be done though.

You all may be supprised... The Demos and the other small parties may well go and when the smoke settles the TRT may well still be there but with some sanctions. There was some evidence that was presented to the EC some months ago regarding the Demos conspiring with some small parties to setup the TRT, if that has been proven TRT may have been let off the hook rather than caught in the trap.

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If a valid reason can be shown for dissolving more than TRT so be it! TRT seems to be done though.

You all may be supprised... The Demos and the other small parties may well go and when the smoke settles the TRT may well still be there but with some sanctions. There was some evidence that was presented to the EC some months ago regarding the Demos conspiring with some small parties to setup the TRT, if that has been proven TRT may have been let off the hook rather than caught in the trap.

Nothing became of those ridiculously obvious tit-for-tat charges ("oh no, we didn't bribe the small parties, it was them") against the Democrats.

They were so ridiculous that they aren't included in the ridiculous charges now facing the Democrats. They were so stupid and far-fetched they decided not to pursue them with the current stupid and far-fetched charges.

They were crazier than the crazy charges laid down.

They were more fantastic than the fantasy accusations placed by TRT.

So that you can see what they were actually charged with:

The Democrat party was accused by TRT of undermining democracy by requesting that Article 7 of the Constitution – for His Majesty the King to appoint a prime minister – be invoked and for boycotting the April 2 election.

http://www.ihtthaiday.com/IHT/ViewNews.asp...D=9490000083312

The above charges are baseless, and clearly nothing more than retribution for the charges against TRT. Are they really sure they want to say that encourarging the implication of a Constitutional Article is unconstitutional???

I feel the Democrats future is quite secure contingent upon one thing...

and that is, if true and fair justice can be found in the Courts..

*edit*... I'd just like add that is VERY refreshing not to have a topic dragged to far-corners of the world in off-topic nonsense AND not have this thread closed down.

The benefits of Colpyat's resignation are truly remarkable.

:o

Edited by sriracha john
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Thaksin maintains that TRT has done no wrong

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra remained confident yesterday that the Thai Rak Thai (TRT) party under his leadership will not be dissolved.

“I don’t know about other parties, but, as far as TRT is concerned, I’m certain that it will not be dissolved,” Thaksin told the media yesterday. “Our party is a juristic entity that has done nothing wrong.”

Thaksin’s emphasis on the juristic nature of the party has prompted political analysts to assume that he is trying to distance the party from individual members who have been accused of being involved in bankrolling small parties to contest in the (subsequently nullified) April 2 election.

Two party stalwarts – caretaker Defense Minister Gen Thammarak Isarangura Na Ayutthaya and Transport Minister Pongsak Raktapongpaisal – are accused of paying off the small parties, which forms the basis of the Election Commission’s recommendation that TRT be disbanded.

Since printouts of CCTV footage that purportedly showed the small-party leaders visiting Gen Thammarak’s office were made public last month, senior TRT executives have tried to distance the party from the controversy, saying that the party was neither aware of, nor complicit in, the personal actions of individual party members.

Informed sources say that TRT’s legal experts are formulating strategies to defend the party’s cause in the Constitutional Court on grounds that the party leader, Thaksin, has never been summoned by the Election Commission to hear the formal charges.

- TD

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If a valid reason can be shown for dissolving more than TRT so be it! TRT seems to be done though.

You all may be supprised... The Demos and the other small parties may well go and when the smoke settles the TRT may well still be there but with some sanctions. There was some evidence that was presented to the EC some months ago regarding the Demos conspiring with some small parties to setup the TRT, if that has been proven TRT may have been let off the hook rather than caught in the trap.

Nothing became of those ridiculously obvious tit-for-tat charges ("oh no, we didn't bribe the small parties, it was them") against the Democrats.

They were so ridiculous that they aren't included in the ridiculous charges now facing the Democrats. They were so stupid and far-fetched they decided not to pursue them with the current stupid and far-fetched charges.

They were crazier than the crazy charges laid down.

They were more fantastic than the fantasy accusations placed by TRT.

So that you can see what they were actually charged with:

The Democrat party was accused by TRT of undermining democracy by requesting that Article 7 of the Constitution – for His Majesty the King to appoint a prime minister – be invoked and for boycotting the April 2 election.

http://www.ihtthaiday.com/IHT/ViewNews.asp...D=9490000083312

The above charges are baseless, and clearly nothing more than retribution for the charges against TRT. Are they really sure they want to say that encourarging the implication of a Constitutional Article is unconstitutional???

I feel the Democrats future is quite secure contingent upon one thing...

and that is, if true and fair justice can be found in the Courts..

*edit*... I'd just like add that is VERY refreshing not to have a topic dragged to far-corners of the world in off-topic nonsense AND not have this thread closed down.

The benefits of Colpyat's resignation are truly remarkable.

:o

I agree with this 100%. I seem to recall Thaksin saying some time back that he would destroy the others or something along those words. I think he may have just indited himself in tampering because this has Thaksin written all over it. It is amazing what one news story can do to lift the fog.

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From the Financial Times:

In Tuesday's indictment, senior Thai Rak Thai (Thais love Thais) leaders have been charged with hiring fake opposition candidates to contest the controversial and now invalidated April 2 elections, after the major opposition parties decided to boycott.

For their part, the Democrats have been charged by the Election Commission with attempting to subvert democracy by boycotting the elections, and participating in anti-government demonstrations – charges the Democrats, and some constitutional experts, reject as spurious.

----------------------

so now we know the other charge the Democrats face... participating in Constitutionally-guranteed free speech demonstrations..

..

"Spurious" is to kindly a word to use to describe this garbage.

==================================

More insight from the Financial Times:

Responding to the charges against the Democrat party, Suchit Boonbongkarn, a former Constitutional Court judge and constitutional drafter, said it was “absurd” to say that declining to participate in polls undermined democracy. “It is the right of political parties to run, or not to run in the elections,” he said.

ching frickin' ching

:o

Korn Chatikavanij, a deputy leader of the Democrat party, suggested that by simultaneously prosecuting the main opposition and ruling parties, authorities aimed to generate anxious fears of imminent chaos in Thai society, as a way of protecting Thai Rak Thai given the strong evidence of the party’s wrongdoing.

that's a very plausible explanation...

“Once they have created that general feeling, it would pave the way to a compromise solution, whereby individuals are punished but not parties,” Mr Korn said, calling such an outcome “a best case scenario” for Thai Rak Thai.

Edited by sriracha john
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Several factors pointing out just how much the OAG is yet another of Thaksin's puppets.

The OAG received the report against the Democrats from the EC only on Monday. On Tuesday, less than 24 hours after having received the 1,500-page report, they made their recommendation to the Courts....

given they undoubtedly had not enough time to simply read, let alone analyse, discuss and properly review the contents thoroughly before making their own recommendation. (read the BP)

Furthermore, not much faith can be put into the entire OAG office as the decision to send on the request to dissolve the Democrat Party was by all 11 members. The whole OAG is under Thaksin's thumb...as not one member was confident and independent enough to cast a disapproving vote. This should show people how extensive his level of control is after 5 years of consolidation.

It's not to say I say the OAG panel members are bad and fault them for their actions. They have families, obligations, and responsibilities.

From any point in the last 5 years, Thaksin has shown time and again that it's dangerous for their very lives for them or anyone else to go against him. Murder will be his legacy after he's thrown out of office.

In 50 years, the history books on these times will have revealed much more about this despot and his ways of dealing with dissent.

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Several factors pointing out just how much the OAG is yet another of Thaksin's puppets.

The OAG received the report against the Democrats from the EC only on Monday. On Tuesday, less than 24 hours after having received the 1,500-page report, they made their recommendation to the Courts....

given they undoubtedly had not enough time to simply read, let alone analyse, discuss and properly review the contents thoroughly before making their own recommendation. (read the BP)

Furthermore, not much faith can be put into the entire OAG office as the decision to send on the request to dissolve the Democrat Party was by all 11 members. The whole OAG is under Thaksin's thumb...as not one member was confident and independent enough to cast a disapproving vote. This should show people how extensive his level of control is after 5 years of consolidation.

It's not to say I say the OAG panel members are bad and fault them for their actions. They have families, obligations, and responsibilities.

From any point in the last 5 years, Thaksin has shown time and again that it's dangerous for their very lives for them or anyone else to go against him. Murder will be his legacy after he's thrown out of office.

In 50 years, the history books on these times will have revealed much more about this despot and his ways of dealing with dissent.

Who knows ... could be "throw them against the wall and see who sticks"

Or just "Look guys ... if we don't look like we are WILLING to screw with them all ... then..."

but hey ... it makes for interesting times here :o

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Last Songkran, I left on an lengthy trip to remote parts of Satun and Trang. It was right after Thaksin had "resigned" and I left feeling very good about Thailand's future.

Since April, Thaksin has broken his promise and shown his real plans and is back to fight.

Today, I leave on a month-long sojourn to the remote parts of the North and I'm feeling good once again for Thailand's future. The reason being I'm getting the vibes that the Courts will be put an end to him, once and for all.

It's pie-in-the-sky optimism perhaps, but then so was his "resignation" in April and the Courts rendering invalidating the results of the election. They are showing themselves to be vastly improved from the time when they accepted his "honest mistake" claims of putting billions of baht in stock in the name of his gardener's wife's som tam seller.

In a fitting tribute marking his 60th glorious year of rule, I get the feeling His Majesty The King's speech to their group has made a tremendously powerful impact upon them.

LONG LIVE THE KING

I bid the forum thread a fond farewell for now.

Good luck to you, Thailand.

...It'll be the sporadic Internet cafes for awhile. :o

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5555 strangely (or not so strange) I move tmw morning and am packing up electronics tonight ... so will not be online for a short while too.

(and seeing that Britmav fellow on the 4th to wish him a happy independence day!

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As I said a chess game. Post #939 is looking several moves ahead and it is a very possible scenario that well may play into the Thai way of thinking.

On the other note if the Thais do what is right and Thaksin does go down, someone should be standing ready with some paper for a judge to sign to freeze/ seize or whatever Thaksin’s assets. I feel that should be done seconds after the goes down before he has a chance to make any phone calls.

What is needed right now is some serious press in Thai so the Thais don’t play into his mind game.

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A former charter writer predicts the dissolution of political parties

Former charter writer Khanin Boonsuwan (คณิณ บุญสุวรรณ) predicts that the dissolution of political parties will lead to a big change in Thai politics once again.

Five parties, including Thai Rak Thai and Democrat, are facing threats of being disbanded for allegedly violating the Political Parties Act in connection with the April election. The Constitution Court should decide on their fate soon and any that is found to have really broken the law will be dissolved.

Mr. Khanin said he believes some among these five will certainly be dissolved, and this will create a political vacuum and special political measures will be needed.

He said the election on October 15th may not be held if parties were ordered dissolved by the Constitution Court.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 June 2006

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I have a feeling that Thaksin struck a deal with friendly Constitution Court judges, perhaps very very recently - that would explain his unusual bravado, just days after he was reported as being demoralised after fighting a proxy war against a "charismatic person".

That's a brilliant move - people can't legally protest against CC rulings, and it's nearly impossible to unseat judges, far more difficult than EC.

So, if CC issues pro-Thaksin ruling, even if it goes against common sense and is percieved as going agaisnt HM's wishes - there's nothing people can do about it, legally.

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So, if CC issues pro-Thaksin ruling, even if it goes against common sense and is percieved as going agaisnt HM's wishes - there's nothing people can do about it, legally.

What do you mean by a "pro-Thaksin ruling". Dissolve the Democrats and let TRT off the hook? That seems like a most unlikely scenario, but I guess it can't be discounted. In any case, if that comes to pass, people will take to the streets again, and you'll likely see a renewed push to impeach the Constitutional Court judges. The chaos would be unimaginable...

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Thai prosecutors seek to disband PM's party

Prosecutors deepened Thailand's political crisis on Tuesday by recommending Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's ruling party and the opposition Democrat Party be disbanded for violating election laws.

"The Attorney-General Office's board of 11 members agreed unanimously" Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais), the Democrats and three small parties were guilty of violations, spokesman Attapol Yaisawang told reporters.

Attorney-General Pachara Yutidhammadamrong was expected to approve the board's decision and forward the case to the Constitutional Court this week, Attapol said after a five-hour meeting to study thousands of pages of allegations.

The Election Commission accused the parties of violations in a snap April 2 general election Thaksin called to counter street protests against him but later declared unlawful by the courts.

The law says a party faces dissolution if it breaks election rules that threaten national security, peace and order, or the constitutional monarchy.

Constitutional Court President Pan Chantarapan told Reuters it would take the court about a month from deciding to hear the cases to delivering a verdict.

The case against Thai Rak Thai stems from an Election Commission probe into a complaint by the Democrats and found two Thai Rak Thai leaders gave two fringe parties money to run against the ruling party.

Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai deny the charges.

"Thai Rak Thai are confident of our innocence. The party is a legal entity that never does anything illegally," Thaksin told reporters at the party's headquarters.

"We will continue to work for the people. We work under democracy, not demo crazy," he said in English, taking a swipe at organizers of mass protests that led to the April 2 poll.

That poll included many constituencies where Thai Rak Thai candidates ran uncontested due to a boycott by the three main opposition parties. They failed to win because they did not get the required 20 percent of the eligible vote.

The Democrats accused the two Thai Rak Thai leaders of paying fringe parties to run so ruling party candidates could avoid the 20 percent rule.

But with seats left unfilled, parliament could not meet to elect a new prime minister, leaving Thailand with a caretaker government that cannot take major policy decisions and no functioning legislature.

In a tit-for-tat, Thai Rak Thai alleged the Democrats had paid fringe parties to accuse it falsely and that its election boycott was unconstitutional.

The Election Commission said on Monday it believed the Democrats were guilty of the allegations against them.

A re-run of the election has been set for October 15, but it is far from certain the political mess will be sorted out by then.

However, Thaksin said "everything would proceed as planned."

Source: China Post (Reuters) - 2006/6/28

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TRT leader believes the party is innocent

Thai Rak Thai party leader Thaksin Shinawatra is confident that his party is at no fault and is willing to inform the facts to the Constitutional Court over hiring small political parties to run the previous general election.

TRT leader Thaksin insisted that party members are not worried about the decision of the Office of the Attorney-General in proposing the matter of dissolving Thai Rak Thai Party to the Constitutional Court. He said TRT has no resolution for anyone to violate the laws and that the party respects the decision of every organization.

He said the party will perform its duties according to advises of His Majesty the King. He added that it depends on the consideration of the Constitutional Court whether he would have to inform the facts to the court. He confirmed that TRT party will follow the rules and regulations.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 June 2006

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TRT party unshaken by verdict of the Attorney General's Office

Thai Rak Thai Deputy Secretary-General Phongsak Raktaphongphaisan (พงษ์ศักดิ์ รักตพงษ์ไพศาล) says he is not being troubled by the decision of the Office of the Attorney-General in proposing the matter of dissolving Thai Rak Thai Party to the Constitutional Court.

Mr. Phongsak spoke on the Attorney General's Office's preparations to send the legal filings on the dissolution of Thai Rak Thai party to the Constitutional Court judges, arising from allegations of the party having hired smaller parties to run in the previous general election. He is confident the party has no part in such scheme. Mr. Phongsak says he is ready to provide explainations should the Constitutional Court require more information.

In the meantime Deputy Thai Rak Thai leader Thammarak Issarangkoon Na Ayutthaya (ธรรมรักษ์ อิศรางกูร ณ อยุธยา) has declined to comment on the verdict by the Attorney General's Office, and said he has already given away all information on this matter.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 June 2006

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Banharn says Thai politics are chaotic, with the 5-party dissolution matter lingering

Chart Thai Party Leader Banharn Silpa_archa (บรรหาร ศิลปอาชา) has indicated that Thai politics are at the most chaotic at the moment and the future is difficult to predict.

Mr. Banharn said he is worried about the current situation in politics, especially the Attorney-General having sent the matter of dissolving five political parties to the Constitutional Court for final verdict, as this would be difficult to make expectations on the future direction of Thai politics. He said he hopes for the best for every party, especially those that have been established for a long time.

He also questioned why the matter of dissolving the Democrat Party was able to be passed into consideration so quickly. However, he said his conscience lets him to believe that no dissolution would occur for now.

As for some parties' concern over how the Constitutional Court may use double standard for the Thai Rak Thai and the Democrat, the Chart Thai Leader said this should not be the case because the society is paying a lot of attention on this matter.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 June 2006

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Last Songkran, I left on an lengthy trip to remote parts of Satun and Trang. It was right after Thaksin had "resigned" and I left feeling very good about Thailand's future.

Since April, Thaksin has broken his promise and shown his real plans and is back to fight.

Today, I leave on a month-long sojourn to the remote parts of the North and I'm feeling good once again for Thailand's future. The reason being I'm getting the vibes that the Courts will be put an end to him, once and for all.

It's pie-in-the-sky optimism perhaps, but then so was his "resignation" in April and the Courts rendering invalidating the results of the election. They are showing themselves to be vastly improved from the time when they accepted his "honest mistake" claims of putting billions of baht in stock in the name of his gardener's wife's som tam seller.

In a fitting tribute marking his 60th glorious year of rule, I get the feeling His Majesty The King's speech to their group has made a tremendously powerful impact upon them.

LONG LIVE THE KING

I bid the forum thread a fond farewell for now.

Good luck to you, Thailand.

...It'll be the sporadic Internet cafes for awhile. :o

Have a good one SJ. Looking forward to reading your input when you get back...

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Yeah, SJ, have a good trip. Hope there will be no blood spilled on this pages in your absense.

What do you mean by a "pro-Thaksin ruling".

Right now Thaksin's strategy seems to create fear of total political collapse (both TRT and Democrats dissolved) and then offer a solution - nobody should be punished at all, which, of course, IS a pro-Thaksin ruling.

If CC goes along with this strategy, there will be mass demonstrations and outrage. Good news is that Democrats already mentioned it, and Nation's editors put it in their "burning issue" article, so the public might be prepared and CC will be warned.

CC is the main court believed to be staffed with pro-Thaksin judges.

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Reading Thaksin is getting to be like reading a book....well a bad book. He was dead quiet because he was busy pulling strings. Now that you can see what he has been doing he is all over the news. Expect him to spend a lot of time in and around court officials during this stage. You know talking about the south. This is nothing more than garbage because he really does not have much to go on. This is looking more and more like a mafia movie with Thaksin as the godfather. Well I think now would be a good time to start the street protests again. That will help remind the courts of their duty. The protests have been put out of people's minds and they will soon forget them.

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So, if CC issues pro-Thaksin ruling, even if it goes against common sense and is percieved as going agaisnt HM's wishes - there's nothing people can do about it, legally.

What do you mean by a "pro-Thaksin ruling". Dissolve the Democrats and let TRT off the hook? That seems like a most unlikely scenario, but I guess it can't be discounted. In any case, if that comes to pass, people will take to the streets again, and you'll likely see a renewed push to impeach the Constitutional Court judges. The chaos would be unimaginable...

A pro-Thaksin decision would be any that would allow him to conduct business as usual. There are several scenarios that would lead to this and with the Constitutional Court's past voting record, that is what will happen. A compromise decision will be rendered, in whatever form, and then back to business as usual.

As for demonstrations, if they re-occur, they will fizzle out fairly quickly. Dr. Thaksin will claim that HM The King requested the courts sort the issues out, and once decisions are rendered, that will have been the case. Really, the only thing left to demonstrate about will be allegations of friendly judges, but since proof will not be forthcoming, it will be on with business as usual.

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As someone stated Thaksin said before he would take everyone down with him. Well it seems this is the strategy. If TRT goes the five go. lets be honest three of thenm are gone anyway because they are nothing. Dr. T has used his vast power well to insure the state bodies quickly added the Dems to the dissolution list. I guess the manouvre is the compomise of dont disolve the two but maybe throw a few execs to the wolves. The interesting wildcard is the criminal cases particularly those against TRT. These could end up with the supreme court, and if they find against TRT it would very dificult for the constitutional court to not dissolve the TRT. We are back to courts having to talk to each other again. They havent done this for a while, and this may nullify the effect of the political appointees in the Constitutional court. It is even more complicated than it looks on the surface.

It is not easy to take down the most powerful politician ever in Thailand.

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Dr. Thaksin told TRT members not to be worried about the resolution on dissolving TRT Party

The Thai Rak Thai Party Leader, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, has told his party members not to be worried about the resolution of the Office of the Attorney-General, following the proposal to dissolve five political parties yesterday. He has instructed them to perform their duties under the constitutional law. He has assigned them to visit different areas to solicit votes for the next general election on October 15th.

Mr. Yongyut Tiyapairat (ยงยุทธ ติยะไพรัช), the Thai Rak Thai Administrator, said that the current political rift has caused negative impacts on people. However, Dr. Thaksin has reinstructed his party members to continue their roles, adding that the October 15th election will not be cancelled.

Mr. Yongyut has declined to criticize the decision of the Office of the Attorney-General as he said that the process goes in line with the law. However, he is confident that this matter will not lessen his party’s popularity.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 June 2006

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PAD leader says Thai Rak Thai dissolution not affect Thaksin regime

Nakhonratchasima - Somkiat Pongpaiboon, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, said Wednesday that the Thaksin regime would not be affected by the likely dissolution of the Thai Rak Thai Party.

He said although the Constitution Court might order the party to be dissolved, Thai Rak Thai politicians would not be banned from politics but they could remain in politics by joining other parties.

Somkiat said the Thai Rak Thai politicians would join "nominal parties" or surrogate-mother parties.

He said the Chat Thai would become the most popular surrogate-mother party.

Somkiat said since the Thai Rak Thai politicians would remain in politics, the Thaksin regime would stay to cause damages to the country.

Source: The Nation - 28 June 2006

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