Too many dogs on Samui

[pokerspiv]

Buddhist principles only prohibit practicing buddhists from taking life. They don't say anything about getting others to do it on their behalf, hence why most buddhists are not vegetarians.

It wouldn't be too hard for Dog Rescue to hire a farang to administer injections to stray dogs.

[evadgib]

Our dog is vaccinated & never allowed to roam.

All the others in our vicinity are the other way around, meaning we can't walk the dog.

Feral packs rule exercise at the beach out too. How many times have you had the "what's your dog doing on my dog's beach?" look from beachfront owners who get irate when their dogs are chastised yet flatly deny ownership if someone was bitten or knocked off a bike?

Culpability & responsibility spring to mind.

As a child I recall a bounty for squirrels tails @ the local Police station in UK. There was also money to be had by returning bottles to an off-licence. For this to go full circle the people that were my age when I collected on both should be offered an incentive to present a live Dog or Cat to a vet to be speyed or neutered. The problem would be under control in as little as 5 years.

Once the system is up & running an age ceiling would ensure all animals are presented at the optimum age of say 6 months to 1 year-sexually mature but not yet had the chance to reproduce.

Just my 2p...

Edited January 24, 2014 by evadgib

[Tropicalevo]

I am with you evadgib.

Luckily there are no feral dogs where I live - just feral cats.

However, when we walk our 'well behaved and properly trained' dog along nearby Samrong Beach - I always carry a BIG stick.

On that beach are 3 'adopted' dogs. Adopted by the part time residents in the resort. The dogs are well fed by their part time owners.

When we walk our retriever, the beach dogs usually attack her. That is until they receive a sharp tap from said BIG stick. They then cry as if I had beaten them near to death and slink off back to their part time owners - who usually give me threatening/black looks.Tough. As if I care.

One person actually complained to me once and I just pointed out that when he took his dog back to his home country when he left Samui - then the problem would be solved.

Sadly - it does not solve the problem of what to do with all of these little beasties.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Tropicalevo

[Noi657]

I've got a solution.. Move back to England! If not, xxxxx moaning!! Personally I commend these so called do-gooders from these animal charity's that only do it to make themselves feel better! They do what they can do with the resources and funds available. But so long as your ok jack,xxxxxxx everyone else eh!

Just the kind of pathetic comment I was expecting... there is always someone with the 'move back to England' response. Wonder if you will feel the same after you hit a dog on your bike and end up in hospital? If you have nothing to constructive or worthwhile to add to the conversation, go back to sitting outside 7/11 with a Chang eh. Jeez... sounds like the moaning is coming from you not me Have a lovely day.

You too! Be careful out there...

[justanotheroldhippy]

I've got a solution.. Move back to England! If not, xxxxx moaning!! Personally I commend these so called do-gooders from these animal charity's that only do it to make themselves feel better! They do what they can do with the resources and funds available. But so long as your ok jack,xxxxxxx everyone else eh!

Just the kind of pathetic comment I was expecting... there is always someone with the 'move back to England' response. Wonder if you will feel the same after you hit a dog on your bike and end up in hospital? If you have nothing to constructive or worthwhile to add to the conversation, go back to sitting outside 7/11 with a Chang eh. Jeez... sounds like the moaning is coming from you not me Have a lovely day.

You too! Be careful out there...

Well thank you for your consideration... and I am ALWAYS careful 'out there'... too many toss*rs about, wouldn't you agree? Now then... do you actually have anything constructive to add to the topic?

[Noi657]

No.... I'm still waiting on your solution

[Noi657]

Your solution so far is to round them all up and put them down or open your garden up as a sanctuary..

[Noi657]

Shame the Thais can't adopt the UK model like the RSPCA... Bring them in, try and adopt them and if not, unfortunately the have to be put to sleep. Thai religion won't allow you to do this though, however it's ok to brutally attack it! So while you take the mick out of these dog rescue centres at least they're trying to do something. Mass neuturing would help in the long term, I know PAC. Are trying to achieve this on Koh Phangan.. Dig deep into your pockets my friend if you want to help in the long term!

[John 1]

I've got a solution.. Move back to England! If not, xxxxx moaning!! Personally I commend these so called do-gooders from these animal charity's that only do it to make themselves feel better! They do what they can do with the resources and funds available. But so long as your ok jack,xxxxxxx everyone else eh!

Just the kind of pathetic comment I was expecting... there is always someone with the 'move back to England' response. Wonder if you will feel the same after you hit a dog on your bike and end up in hospital? If you have nothing to constructive or worthwhile to add to the conversation, go back to sitting outside 7/11 with a Chang eh. Jeez... sounds like the moaning is coming from you not me Have a lovely day.

You too! Be careful out there...

Well thank you for your consideration... and I am ALWAYS careful 'out there'... too many toss*rs about, wouldn't you agree? Now then... do you actually have anything constructive to add to the topic?

What the F with you are you just trying to stir people up if they don't have your solution. This is a open forum. A smiley doesn't cut it.

[notmyself]

Our dog is vaccinated & never allowed to roam.

All the others in our vicinity are the other way around, meaning we can't walk the dog.

Feral packs rule exercise at the beach out too. How many times have you had the "what's your dog doing on my dog's beach?" look from beachfront owners who get irate when their dogs are chastised yet flatly deny ownership if someone was bitten or knocked off a bike?

Culpability & responsibility spring to mind.

As a child I recall a bounty for squirrels tails @ the local Police station in UK. There was also money to be had by returning bottles to an off-licence. For this to go full circle the people that were my age when I collected on both should be offered an incentive to present a live Dog or Cat to a vet to be speyed or neutered. The problem would be under control in as little as 5 years.

Once the system is up & running an age ceiling would ensure all animals are presented at the optimum age of say 6 months to 1 year-sexually mature but not yet had the chance to reproduce.

Just my 2p...

People would start shipping dogs over from the mainland in order to make money.

[justanotheroldhippy]

Your solution so far is to round them all up and put them down or open your garden up as a sanctuary..

It is difficult to understand how you could misinterpret what I said so badly. Maybe you need to read the post again? I don't think I ever mentioned 'rounding them all up and putting them down as a solution', and opening up my garden as a dog sanctuary was what they call 'sarcasm', and not offered as a solution. Right, no more responses from me... I was told I was wasting my time posting anything on here, because of people/responses like yours, so well done... you proved my friend 100% correct. But I will still wish you a lovely day, and a smiley!

[notmyself]

It's going to get worse as the protests in BKK continue, Tourist numbers from China and Korea will drop.

[Noi657]

Hippy... I've posted your original question/concern for samui rescue and PAC on koh phangan, hopefully they can come up with the answers you seek. I'm off to the 7/11 for a chang!

[Noi657]

TREATMENT FREE OF CHARGE

Treatment free of charge for all dogs and cats on Samui island

With your help we are still able to desex 6 animals per day. Within the past 12 years we desexed more than 15000 cats and dogs and organized an uncountable number of vaccinations and treatments.

We offer medical treatments for all cats and dogs with pick-up service even outside our business hours - and it doesn't matter if the animals have an owner or not.

As soon as we would ask the more or less poor Thais for a payment a lot of them wouldn't bring their animals to the vet anymore because they would fear that the treatment is not affordable for them.

Dr. Sith works 6 days a week at our shelter in Baan Taling Ngam.

He desexes 6 animals per day and has to face a lot of emergency cases.

During the whole day there is a brisk visitor-traffic at the shelter.

A lot of Thais and foreign residents bring their cats and dogs for treatments and vaccinations.

The shelter is opened monday till sunday from 9 am to 5:30 pm. Saturdays Dr. Sith works at the shelter from 9 am to 2 pm. If Dr. Sith is not available at the shelter some of our helpers can do the vaccinations and emergency treatments.

Dr. Sith has his consultation hours at our house in Chaweng mondays, wednesdays and fridays from 4 pm till 6 pm.

As our house is located in the middle of Chaweng near a huge marketplace a lot of Thais live there with their "pets". A lot of the Thais feed a dog once a day for years and still say that this dog doesn't belong to them. The dog has a different opinion for sure and so do I.

When they bring their dog for a medical treatment they tell us that it doesn't belong to them to save the payment.

But for us it doesn't matter at all if the dog has an owner or not - medical treatments and vaccinations are free of charge for ALL animals.

Of course we are happy about donations.

Meanwhile a lot of Thais admit to their animals and the consultation hours are well accepted and much frequented.

[Noi657]

SPAY AND NEUTER PROGRAM

THE DRCS CLINIC FOR DOGS AND CATS

Since April 1999, thanks for DRCS, there has been a vet on Koh Samui to help all stray, injured and sick dogs and cats. This was only achieved with the help of animal friends as the basic equipment and running expenses for a clinic are very high. Dr Somsak and two helpers were employed by the DRCS in April 1999.Seit April

Dr Somsak worked for the DRCS until the end of 1999. In January 2000 he opened his own practice in Chaweng. In March 2000, we employed Dr Sarawoot and Dr Boy but they wanted to pursue more independent work and I was not unhappy when they quit in September 2000. From October 2000 until June 2003, all stray and ill dogs were taken to Dr Somsak. We had to pay the same price for treatments as everyone else on the island. This was a good idea at the time as we only paid for actual work carried out on the dogs and were spared the overheads of the full-time salary of a vet. Dr Somsak spayed two dogs and many cats every day for us and we had a good working relationship with him. Dr Somsak sold us the medication and vaccines at a good price and explained to us in great detail about the different illnesses and provided good advice on the treatment of our animals. DRCS has always paid for the castration and medication for the Thai people who could not afford it.

In April 2003, we finished work on the shelter at Baan Taling Ngam with its own operating room. It made sense, therefore, to employ a full-time vet again so full use could be made of our new facilities. Of course we first needed to provide shelter places/boxes for the operated dogs before employing a new vet.

All dogs and cats stay at least one week at the DRCS shelter for medical treatment after being spayed/castrated.

Many animal welfare groups in Thailand and other parts of the World throw the animals back out to the street after one day. This means for many of them a slow and painful death! Dogs and cats are unaware that they will die for sure if they remove their stitches themselves.

Since 13 July 2003, we have had our own vet.

Dr. Joe is 29 years old and worked 3 years in a clinic in Bangkok. Dr. Joe castrated 5 to 6 dogs or cats daily and provides medical treatment to all sick and abandoned dogs and cats. He is now no longer working for the DRCS.

For more Info about vets, please see: Our vets and staff

Since the 8. November 2005, Dr. Sith (Teesith Pengvithaya) works for us. We are very pleased with his work and hope that he will stay with the DRCS for a long time.

PREVENTION

To control the breeding of dogs and the population on the island, Dr Sith spays every day at least 6 dogs or cats for the DRCS.

Here you can view a list of all operations!

We printed fliers in Thai and English to inform the locals about our 'special offer' to spay stray dogs and cats for free. We continue to rely on the locals to help us catch as many stray dogs and cats as possible. Castrations and sterilizations are the only effective method to control the number of dogs and cats. One pair of dogs will produce 16 puppies in one year, and if these also have offspring, the number rises to more than 500 puppies over three years. The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) estimates that a pair of breeding cats and their offspring can exponentially produce over 400,000 cats in 7 years. The street dogs in Thailand are called Soi Dogs. The name comes from soi = street.

[Noi657]

OUR VACCIANTION-PROGRAM

At the shelters in Baan Taling Ngam and Chaweng all dogs receive vaccinations against rabies, hepatitis, parvovirus, distemper, parainfluenza and leptospirosis once a year.

Cats receive vaccinations against rabies, feline panleukopenia, cat flu, chlamydia, herpes and leukemia.

We also try to vaccinate and deworm as much dogs as we can at the big beaches once a year.

Here you can find some pictures of several activities at the beaches.

February 2010

Vaccinations at CHAWENG and LAMAI-BEACH

February 2011

Vaccinations at CHOENG MON BEACH

March 2011

Vaccinations at LAMAI-BEACH

We also rely on your help - please help us to vaccinate and deworm all cats and dogs.

Whenever you've made friends with the animals straying around at the beach or your hotel please call us and we will come and vaccinate and deworm the cats and dogs.

Of course we also look for animals which aren't castrated yet. Whenever you find a green tattoo in the dog's ear this dog is castrated already.

Every day we castrate 6 animals at the selter and have to face 3 to 6 emergency cases.

Those animals often bring bacteria or virus with them. We try not to bring any animals to the shelter which aren't vaccinated - but in emergency or sickness cases this isn't possible...

All animals that need to be desexed at our shelter will be vaccinated 3 weeks prior the surgery.

After the sterilisation all animals have to stay 1 one more week with us for medical control.

Unfortunately a lot of dogs die of the parvovirus. Puppies are especially at risk.

When a dog got infected the chances for healing are nearly zero. Parvovirus causes serious diarrhea and the dogs die balefully.

Distemper is also very common and caused by a virus. The only protection is a vaccination. Distemper damages brain nerves which causes various symptoms. Puppies are especially at risk. When a dog got infected we can only euthanise it to release it from it's neural pain.

As puppies are especially at risk we try to find a foster home for them until they have been vaccinated twice. After that we bring them to our puppy house and try to find a new home for them.

In april 2001 the government declared Samui to be the first rabies-free region.

Within the last years they announced that several times.

HERE you can find the report and some pictures of the health minister's visit.

Within the past 12 years we did about 60000 rabies vaccinations.

I haven't seen any rabies case within the past 20 years.

If you were bitten by a cat or dog I recommend to go to the doctor and ask for a vaccination. After that you are protected for 5 years and can pet animals all over the world without any fear.

[Mole]

Most of the notable things written in that copypasta is over 10 years old.

Since then, their passion in this has been long gone years ago.

[justanotheroldhippy]

Hippy... I've posted your original question/concern for samui rescue and PAC on koh phangan, hopefully they can come up with the answers you seek. I'm off to the 7/11 for a chang!

Thanks for that, good idea. I've met a couple of the Phangan rescue guys- good people they are too.

Enjoy your Chang, but wrap up, coz it's cold(ish) out there tonight!

[Noi657]

Appreciate your concern...

[Jose]

I don't see a dog problem here.

Like most "problems" in this modern world, the "dog problem" is just another symptom of a human-created clusterXXXXXXX - what we really see here are the results of a maladjusted society.

Was there really a "dog problem" when Samui was an isolated self-sufficient community in the early 70's?

So yes, there are too many in Samui - people, that is.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Rooo
Link & word.

[impulse]

I don't see a dog problem here.

Like most "problems" in this modern world, the "dog problem" is just another symptom of a human-created clusterxxxx - what we really see here are the results of a maladjusted society.

Was there really a "dog problem" when Samui was an isolated self-sufficient community in the early 70's?

So yes, there are too many in Samui - people, that is.

And with the increase in the number of people, things have to change. Like traffic habits, housing arrangements, sewage capacity, garbage disposal and others.

Because the people who arrived on this planet (and on Samui) last month have the same rights to a share of the pie that I have. That means that my share of the pie is changing, whether I like it or not.

Kind of sucks, but that's the way it will be as long as the population keeps growing... Makes solving the dog problem look pretty simple.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Rooo
quote

[PoorSucker]

The solution is to move to Koh Taen 20 min south of Samui.

No dogs on that Island.

[Mole]

Also, PhiPhi has no dogs. But there's more than enough of cats though...

[Rooo]

off topic posts removed.

[Tropicalevo]

I don't see a dog problem here.

Like most "problems" in this modern world, the "dog problem" is just another symptom of a human-created clusterXXXXXXX - what we really see here are the results of a maladjusted society.

Was there really a "dog problem" when Samui was an isolated self-sufficient community in the early 70's?

So yes, there are too many in Samui - people, that is.

I think that your logic is a little flawed Jose.

Mathematically, if there were two dogs on KS in the 70's (one of each sex) and there were no predators with an abundance of food, (probable) then there could be more dogs than coconut trees on the island.

It has nothing to do with people. It's all to do with mating seasons and litter size.

Personally speaking, I have reduced the number of dogs on Samui - by one. (The poor little buugger that threw itself under the wheels of my bike.) The two dogs that I have looked after were dogs whose owners were no longer here.

So much for the theory.

However, I do agree with your comment that there are too many people on Samui. Mostly on the ring road!

[AngThong]

I don't think there would be that many dogs unless there were people to feed them. I doubt particularly many of them would be able to feed off whatever they can catch in the jungle. The big problem with the Thai approach to dogs is that they give them just enough food (including scraps & waste) to keep them alive & breeding but don't take good enough care of them to give them a life worth having. Like rats, dogs multiply when humans do because we feed them, whether directly or indirectly. (Unless, of course, there is an effective dog control policy as in many Western countries.)

In fact, I doubt there would be any dogs (of the common canis lupus familiaris type - dholes are a different story) in tropics if people didn't bring them there & feed them. Cats are better adapted to this climate.

[Jose]

I don't think there would be that many dogs unless there were people to feed them. I doubt particularly many of them would be able to feed off whatever they can catch in the jungle. The big problem with the Thai approach to dogs is that they give them just enough food (including scraps & waste) to keep them alive & breeding but don't take good enough care of them to give them a life worth having. Like rats, dogs multiply when humans do because we feed them, whether directly or indirectly. (Unless, of course, there is an effective dog control policy as in many Western countries.)

In fact, I doubt there would be any dogs (of the common canis lupus familiaris type - dholes are a different story) in tropics if people didn't bring them there & feed them. Cats are better adapted to this climate.

+1

Yes, it's all about the balance of nature, which has evolved in all natural ecosystems over eons to a fine equilibrium - and which the current (temporary) top predators with opposable thumbs tend to screw up within two or three generations.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Jose

[Crazy chef 1]

interesting but unfortunately sad topic.the solution have to be a long term one.

1.as harsh as it sounds- put 'em down.( i see no other solution with the current population)

thereafter

2. if somebody want to have a dog they have to pay taxes

3. laws if your dog harm somebody you are responsible( and enforce the law)

4.collar and leash is a must in public

5.mandatory insurance

yeah sound's like nanny state but some dogs are comperable with weapons and they are also controlled.and pls no reply comparing to trafic laws,this topic is about stray dogs.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Crazy chef 1

[notmyself]

interesting but unfortunately sad topic.the solution have to be a long term one.

1.as harsh as it sounds- put 'em down.( i see no other solution with the current population)

2. if somebody want to have a dog they have to pay taxes

3. laws if your dog harm somebody you are responsible( and enforce the law)

4.collar and leash is a must in public

5.mandatory insurance

yeah sound's like nanny state but some dogs are comperable with weapons and they are also controlled.and pls no reply comparing to trafic laws,this topic is about stray dogs.

Putting the dogs down was tried 2005-6 but was stopped because of huge outcry for it being against the teachings of Buddha. I don't think it is, in a general sense, but I really cannot see it being tried again for a very long time.

2,3,4 & 5 sound reasonable but because it does sound reasonable it will simply not happen.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread. The situation with feral semi-feral dogs was much worse before 2005-6 (not sure of the year but around then). After the 'cull' the population drop was significant. Just around the area where I live the population has doubled, easily double, in the last 3-4 years.

As mentioned by another member above. There is not enough food around so they are on little more than starvation rations which just about allow them to breed. Once the individuals start falling down the pecking order because age, disease or injury it is only a matter of time before they starve to death. The people have spoken (2005-6), the Thai way is rather leave a dog to starve to death than put it out of it's misery.

[Crazy chef 1]

interesting but unfortunately sad topic.the solution have to be a long term one.

1.as harsh as it sounds- put 'em down.( i see no other solution with the current population)

2. if somebody want to have a dog they have to pay taxes

3. laws if your dog harm somebody you are responsible( and enforce the law)

4.collar and leash is a must in public

5.mandatory insurance

yeah sound's like nanny state but some dogs are comperable with weapons and they are also controlled.and pls no reply comparing to trafic laws,this topic is about stray dogs.

Putting the dogs down was tried 2005-6 but was stopped because of huge outcry for it being against the teachings of Buddha. I don't think it is, in a general sense, but I really cannot see it being tried again for a very long time.

2,3,4 & 5 sound reasonable but because it does sound reasonable it will simply not happen.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread. The situation with feral semi-feral dogs was much worse before 2005-6 (not sure of the year but around then). After the 'cull' the population drop was significant. Just around the area where I live the population has doubled, easily double, in the last 3-4 years.

As mentioned by another member above. There is not enough food around so they are on little more than starvation rations which just about allow them to breed. Once the individuals start falling down the pecking order because age, disease or injury it is only a matter of time before they starve to death. The people have spoken (2005-6), the Thai way is rather leave a dog to starve to death than put it out of it's misery.

sad but true my friend.different kind of logic.