I'll tell you why

[wym]

Yes, all these factors also contribute to the poor quality of education, there isn't one magic bullet for improving things.

Unfortunately for Thailand, the bare minimum starting point is people in charge that have a clue or even care.

[wym]

Coincidentally just came across this apropos differences in educational culture.

Not making any claims about how good US education is (often stinks) but just pointing out that it's pretty inconceivable that school administrators would or even could take such a stand.

Allanbrook says that her decision to speak out was motivated in part by thinking about the fifth-grade social-justice curriculum at the school, in which children who are about to graduate are asked to consider the question “What are we willing to stand up for?” “As parents and educators, this is the very question that we could be asking ourselves,” Allanbrook wrote in a letter to parents this week.

Can anyone here even imagine a Thai school with a Social Justice curriculum in fifth grade?

[nakhonandy]

Wow, great! All except the last paragraph. Sounds to me like you have found a subservient, house servant rather than a wife. So I can only gather she is the exact opposite of your previous spouse. Thus you enjoy living here?

Maybe I am reading too much into this but you have less a marriage, but more a owner/servant relationship. But if it works for you excellent, and I fully agree it is a good reason to be living here.

Cheers.

Who are you to judge...?

Some Thai women...WANT...to treat their men special...everyday...and are happy to do so...

That does not necessarily equate them to being hired servants...

Post is so full of BS...

Have to agree.

My wife is always doing things for me, sometimes I have to ask her to stop.

That said I do a lot of things for her also.

Sounds like a normal marraige here to me.

[Nemesis7]

Yourauntbob.....nice post. Happy for you mate.

Thanks.

[yourauntbob]

The educational theories of students questioning teachers are all good in theory, and work great in classrooms with the proper resources

and is usually made by those who have little or no practical experience in the subject

In a classroom of 30 students where a teacher has to work through a particular curriculum, with in a limited time schedule , If students were allowed to constantly disrupt the teacher, nothing will ever get done. It will not be long before the students catch on and that teacher is toast.

perfect example of what i dont like about the Thai education system. thanks for helping me out on that one

[sirineou]

The educational theories of students questioning teachers are all good in theory, and work great in classrooms with the proper resources

and is usually made by those who have little or no practical experience in the subject

In a classroom of 30 students where a teacher has to work through a particular curriculum, with in a limited time schedule , If students were allowed to constantly disrupt the teacher, nothing will ever get done. It will not be long before the students catch on and that teacher is toast.

perfect example of what i dont like about the Thai education system. thanks for helping me out on that one

I don't like it either,but what I don't like more is high taxes.

Here the US local schools are funded by property taxes, In my NY property I pay about $7,000 a year,, that comes to about $600 usd a month,

In Other countries I am sure they have different schemes of funding education, but the bottom line is it is the tax payer who pays it.

Some of the things that make Thailand attractive to as , are also the same things that we find disagreeable.

I happen to think that every penny spend on education is returned to the community tenfold, but given the state of the economy in Thailand do you think a large increase in tax rates to improve infrastructure would go over well in this country?

We hear expats complain about schools, police, government services and in general "infrastructure"

I wonder what a 200,000 bht a year tax , or even a 90,000 bht a year tax increase, to improve local infrastructure, would do to the desirability of expats to live here?

we all need to watch what we wish for, we just might get it.

[wolfmanjack]

The educational theories of students questioning teachers are all good in theory, and work great in classrooms with the proper resources

and is usually made by those who have little or no practical experience in the subject

In a classroom of 30 students where a teacher has to work through a particular curriculum, with in a limited time schedule , If students were allowed to constantly disrupt the teacher, nothing will ever get done. It will not be long before the students catch on and that teacher is toast.

perfect example of what i dont like about the Thai education system. thanks for helping me out on that one

I don't like it either,but what I don't like more is high taxes.

Here the US local schools are funded by property taxes, In my NY property I pay about $7,000 a year,, that comes to about $600 usd a month,

In Other countries I am sure they have different schemes of funding education, but the bottom line is it is the tax payer who pays it.

Some of the things that make Thailand attractive to as , are also the same things that we find disagreeable.

I happen to think that every penny spend on education is returned to the community tenfold, but given the state of the economy in Thailand do you think a large increase in tax rates to improve infrastructure would go over well in this country?

We hear expats complain about schools, police, government services and in general "infrastructure"

I wonder what a 200,000 bht a year tax , or even a 90,000 bht a year tax increase, to improve local infrastructure, would do to the desirability of expats to live here?

we all need to watch what we wish for, we just might get it.

Taxes would not have to be increased. All that needs to be done is for the money allocated to go for what it is intended instead of into someones pocket.

[sirineou]

The educational theories of students questioning teachers are all good in theory, and work great in classrooms with the proper resources

and is usually made by those who have little or no practical experience in the subject

In a classroom of 30 students where a teacher has to work through a particular curriculum, with in a limited time schedule , If students were allowed to constantly disrupt the teacher, nothing will ever get done. It will not be long before the students catch on and that teacher is toast.

perfect example of what i dont like about the Thai education system. thanks for helping me out on that one

I don't like it either,but what I don't like more is high taxes.

Here the US local schools are funded by property taxes, In my NY property I pay about $7,000 a year,, that comes to about $600 usd a month,

In Other countries I am sure they have different schemes of funding education, but the bottom line is it is the tax payer who pays it.

Some of the things that make Thailand attractive to as , are also the same things that we find disagreeable.

I happen to think that every penny spend on education is returned to the community tenfold, but given the state of the economy in Thailand do you think a large increase in tax rates to improve infrastructure would go over well in this country?

We hear expats complain about schools, police, government services and in general "infrastructure"

I wonder what a 200,000 bht a year tax , or even a 90,000 bht a year tax increase, to improve local infrastructure, would do to the desirability of expats to live here?

we all need to watch what we wish for, we just might get it.

Taxes would not have to be increased. All that needs to be done is for the money allocated to go for what it is intended instead of into someones pocket.

No doubt

I don't think there is anyone. including me who would argue against reform in Thailand,

There was some one who in this forum who once said that if corruption was eliminated in Thailand the economy would stop dead in it's tracks

I disagree I think corruption is a drag in the economy.

No doubt money going where they are intended rather to line some ones pockets will help improve things, but I don't know to what degree

The point I was trying to make is that most of us left the west to escape certain things, Then we complain why Thailand is not more like the west.

It is my opinion that we cant have our cake and eat it too.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

Asking questions and questioning the teacher are two different things entirely. My students are always asking me things.

I agree the school system is deeply flawed, but there are many students who ask tons of stuff and genuinely want to learn.

As for the OP and the people who seem to feel the same way? Having total disdain and dislike for a country and its' people, but staying because it's cheap and you have a live-in cook/sex slave (wife) seems totally sexist and inappropriate.

And I submit that you're getting a lot more interaction in your classes than 99% of the Thai teachers out there.

At my international school, we've found it takes a long time - certainly terms, sometimes years - to get the kids coming out of the Thai school system to start contributing. They do get there eventually, but sometimes it really is like pulling teeth.

In secondary it is critical that they do also start questioning the teacher, as in challenging statements and seeking the truth independently. Otherwise when it's time for them to go to uni in the west (which 80% of them do) they're just not going to make the grade. . .

Could you give me an example of when questioning the teacher would be appropriate. Not in philosophical terms or in general but just one specific example of the positive aspect of questioning what the instructor is teaching.

I keep thinking about 2 +2 =4. Why would I want a student to question that?

I have one. A student might ask a teacher. "Teacher, do you think it is appropriate to paint a picture of Adolf Hitler and a Nazi swastika outsided our university?" like they did last year here in Chiang Mai. Do you recall that? Had a student thought to ask that it might have stopped an international condemnation of Thailand. The teacher said the students didn't know who Hitler was. Really? Then may I assume history classes are non existant in the land of scams?

Edited January 24, 2014 by SCARLETIBIS1

[Bung]

My secret is to have a nice home to enjoy, eat quality food and don't drive anywhere between 4 and 8 pm.

[socksy01]

Great post. Never truer (is that a word?) words spoken written.

[thailiketoo]

You're being ridiculous and you know it. You were given perfectly reasonable examples of when a teacher should be questions and you ignored them. Please act like an adult, most people commenting on this thread are (a nice change for TV!).

It's because I've heard the same old blarney on Thaivisa over and over again about Thai education. Specifically that no one teaches critical thinking in the primary and secondary grades.

Well flash, no where else in the world does either as a general rule.

The Socratic method of teaching may work for PHD students at small universities but I'm hard pressed to think of where else because this is 2014 and not 469BC. There is a little more information to cover.

I have had some great teachers in classes of 5000 or more. The teachers wanted to take questions but class size wouldn't allow it. Same with a class size of 50 in Thailand.

Second there is just too much information now. The worlds information is doubling every two years. Teaching methods will have to change.

From what I see about cat pictures being associated with words that might be a better method of learning and forget the teacher for most of it except classroom management.

9 out of 10 Thai people will end up in menial jobs and Thailand is graduating 400,000 college graduates a year who expect to stand around and tell people what to do and it's not gonna happen.

Yes the Thai education system is messed up but it's from too much at the end (college) and not enough at the beginning (3 R's). Rote learning with graphics works fine for the basics but the basics are not being taught well. They need more rote learning not less.

They need to learn to speak, read and write English because not enough is written in Thai. Rote learning does fine for language skills. Clown pictures and cat pictures are nice so the kids don't go to sleep in English class.

[Sigurris]

Asking questions and questioning the teacher are two different things entirely. My students are always asking me things.

I agree the school system is deeply flawed, but there are many students who ask tons of stuff and genuinely want to learn.

As for the OP and the people who seem to feel the same way? Having total disdain and dislike for a country and its' people, but staying because it's cheap and you have a live-in cook/sex slave (wife) seems totally sexist and inappropriate.

And I submit that you're getting a lot more interaction in your classes than 99% of the Thai teachers out there.

At my international school, we've found it takes a long time - certainly terms, sometimes years - to get the kids coming out of the Thai school system to start contributing. They do get there eventually, but sometimes it really is like pulling teeth.

In secondary it is critical that they do also start questioning the teacher, as in challenging statements and seeking the truth independently. Otherwise when it's time for them to go to uni in the west (which 80% of them do) they're just not going to make the grade. . .

Could you give me an example of when questioning the teacher would be appropriate. Not in philosophical terms or in general but just one specific example of the positive aspect of questioning what the instructor is teaching.

I keep thinking about 2 +2 =4. Why would I want a student to question that?

I will give you a perfect example. I used to be a teacher and was watching a Thai English teacher at work. She wrote on the board, "I no go Big C". I was horrifed. The pupils wrote it down. My friends son, at 9 years old is fluent in English and would see that as incorrect. Could he question the teacher? Absolutely not for he would be marked out and that is something you do not want at an early age or any age in Thai schools. And her lack of grasp of spoken English was mirrored in 75% of Thai English teachers I have met over the years.

I had a student, a pharmacist, who told me that he spent 6 years at University keeping his head down for fear of being seen as different in any way. He told me that to question any teacher was tantamount to kissing your career away. This is not my opinion but the words of a 26 year old qualified Thai pharmacist.

[cup-O-coffee]

Wow, great! All except the last paragraph. Sounds to me like you have found a subservient, house servant rather than a wife. So I can only gather she is the exact opposite of your previous spouse. Thus you enjoy living here?

Maybe I am reading too much into this but you have less a marriage, but more a owner/servant relationship. But if it works for you excellent, and I fully agree it is a good reason to be living here.

Cheers.

I, too, caught that one and enjoy your different view of this, rct99q. I often wonder about people's interpretations of love -vs- loyalty, trust, etc. I am not convinced that people's behaviors towards each other can always be defined as love, since I am convinced that the definition of love is like providing the answer to a happy life.

In this case, I think that there is a copacetic relationship going on here, but as far as being kindred spirits and being able to sit and chat about heart-felt things and really having someone who knows your deepest, darkest secrets and being able to connect with you no matter what mood you are in, and to do so without ia beat, is... well... I simply have not been able to find anyone like that in my life.

So, if ti works, it works, but the downside is getting one's physical needs met whilst foregoing the spiritual and emotional needs. Maybe that is why mates like to meet up for beers and banter and crack until the wee hours of the morning. There's nothing like it. It's refreshing and good therapy.

[cup-O-coffee]

Well done, Yourauntbob. Points well made.

Although you've left out what the true source of problems is in this country, which is that men aren't taught to act responsibly and women are taught to live with it. A lot of men in their 30's and 40's behave like teenagers and that is the main reason why this country is going nowhere.

What you have mentioned is true, but they are merely charming cultural quirks to me.

Couldn't disagree more. This country is full of enablers and co-dependents. You figure out who is who. These men you accuse (and I am agreeing that they are a problem) are the products of an upbringing which is almost entirely performed by women. Do not overlook the forest for the one, single tree.

[thailiketoo]

Could you give me an example of when questioning the teacher would be appropriate. Not in philosophical terms or in general but just one specific example of the positive aspect of questioning what the instructor is teaching.

I keep thinking about 2 +2 =4. Why would I want a student to question that?

I will give you a perfect example. I used to be a teacher and was watching a Thai English teacher at work. She wrote on the board, "I no go Big C". I was horrifed. The pupils wrote it down. My friends son, at 9 years old is fluent in English and would see that as incorrect. Could he question the teacher? Absolutely not for he would be marked out and that is something you do not want at an early age or any age in Thai schools. And her lack of grasp of spoken English was mirrored in 75% of Thai English teachers I have met over the years.

I had a student, a pharmacist, who told me that he spent 6 years at University keeping his head down for fear of being seen as different in any way. He told me that to question any teacher was tantamount to kissing your career away. This is not my opinion but the words of a 26 year old qualified Thai pharmacist.

Yes, I see what you are saying. Lets follow it through. I am teaching English and I write on the board, "I will not go to Big C." The student is allowed to question me and stands and says, "not correct. It should be, "I no go Big C." How has this helped Thai education?

[GOLDBUGGY]

The educational theories of students questioning teachers are all good in theory, and work great in classrooms with the proper resources

and is usually made by those who have little or no practical experience in the subject

In a classroom of 30 students where a teacher has to work through a particular curriculum, with in a limited time schedule , If students were allowed to constantly disrupt the teacher, nothing will ever get done. It will not be long before the students catch on and that teacher is toast.

For God's Sakes Teachers! Stay on the Subject Matter! This Original Post had nothing to do with Teaching! Start your own Link!

Geese! No wonder why English Teachers here get such a low grade. They can't even stick to the subject they are supposed to teach!

[wym]

You're being ridiculous and you know it. You were given perfectly reasonable examples of when a teacher should be questions and you ignored them. Please act like an adult, most people commenting on this thread are (a nice change for TV!).

It's because I've heard the same old blarney on Thaivisa over and over again about Thai education. Specifically that no one teaches critical thinking in the primary and secondary grades.

Well flash, no where else in the world does either as a general rule.

The Socratic method of teaching may work for PHD students at small universities but I'm hard pressed to think of where else because this is 2014 and not 469BC. There is a little more information to cover.

I have had some great teachers in classes of 5000 or more. The teachers wanted to take questions but class size wouldn't allow it. Same with a class size of 50 in Thailand.

Second there is just too much information now. The worlds information is doubling every two years. Teaching methods will have to change.

From what I see about cat pictures being associated with words that might be a better method of learning and forget the teacher for most of it except classroom management.

9 out of 10 Thai people will end up in menial jobs and Thailand is graduating 400,000 college graduates a year who expect to stand around and tell people what to do and it's not gonna happen.

Yes the Thai education system is messed up but it's from too much at the end (college) and not enough at the beginning (3 R's). Rote learning with graphics works fine for the basics but the basics are not being taught well. They need more rote learning not less.

They need to learn to speak, read and write English because not enough is written in Thai. Rote learning does fine for language skills. Clown pictures and cat pictures are nice so the kids don't go to sleep in English class.

No, facts and information are not the problem, thinking skills are. Proper education is not targeted toward the work place, but in enabling kids to grow up to be responsible citizens capable of creating a proper democracy. As in willing to stand up to authority, challenging society's mainstream mores, ready to step up and help society change for the better.

And as long as it's impossible for a teacher to admit that their actual skills in English are not even close to a three-year-old NES, they're going to keep teaching the language WRONG, don't even know themselves how poor they are becauase everyone's always telling them how wonderful they are.

The people HIRING the teachers don't have a clue, totally unqualified to judge a good one from bad, the people putting the curriculum together, incompetence right up to the top and face, pride prevents anyone from ever admitting they need help, whether it's from Finland, Singapore, Shanghai/Macau/Hong Kong VIETNAM or even Romania, Bulgaria and Kazakhstan, all are doing much better than Thailand, many investing a much smaller proportion of GDP in education.

[cup-O-coffee]

My thanks goes to the OP for putting into words how I feel about Thailand (when I'm not pissed off).

Wow, great! All except the last paragraph. Sounds to me like you have found a subservient, house servant rather than a wife. So I can only gather she is the exact opposite of your previous spouse. Thus you enjoy living here?

Maybe I am reading too much into this but you have less a marriage, but more a owner/servant relationship. But if it works for you excellent, and I fully agree it is a good reason to be living here.

Cheers.

I might regret posting this but ...

A women who loves and cares about her husband is in no way a servant. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen in Asia, but I do believe that many in the west have lost the plot.

I'm western, as is my husband. We've been married over 20 years so this is not the 'first flush' of young love. This is a longtime lifestyle. I don't know the OP but if asked he just might agree that his relationship is nowhere near one-sided. Same as mine.

When the hubby comes home from work I have his pot of tea ready. On the weekends it's whisky and water. Dinner is delivered to him because he prefers to watch the news while eating. When he's presented with a problem I try to see how I can play my part in helping out. The toughest job I have is where I deal (using much kindness), with his extremely difficult mother.

If I get a craving (chocolate, wine, pumpkin seeds, whatever) without a word he jumps in the car and gets them for me. If I'm out of something for dinner he'll grab stuff on the way home from work. And because we live in Asia, he pays for a part-time maid who does a lot of the boring stuff.

He knows my likes and dislikes, as I do his, so we both manoeuvre to try and make sure there aren't major conflicts. Between the two of us, we have a lot in common so we are constantly talking about the news, new inventions, history, politics, whatever. His thirst for knowledge keeps my brain active. Alive.

I agree that some in the west (men and women) have forgotten (?) how a good marriage can work but please don't blame the men who come to Thailand to find someone to care about them in what is now known as the 'Asian way'.

And as for Thai women being 'submissive'. Hah! Dream on. My Thai girlfriends kick ass.

Good post. Good points. The thing I wonder about the OP is if all of his needs are being met. It is clear that he is getting his physical needs met, but I wonder about his spiritual and emotional needs met.

I hate to put it this way, but having a dog is great. I had a dog growing up. Always there. Always ready to play, and when he saw me he would run up to me and jump on me and wag his tail and be ready to go for a good romp or journey. You get the point.

The thing is, looking back, is that when I was in distress, or wanted to be alone, he would always lie with his head on my knee, but I knew deep down that even though I could talk out all my problems and concerns into his ear, he did not understand me. He seemed to know I was down, and his nuzzling and little whines would confirm that... but at the end of the day I had to sort out my own problems.

My dog simply wanted me to be happy, and when I was down he was down.

My point being; going through life without having another human being, who can reach out and find me at any level of emotion of spirituality, leaves a deep deep void in my life.

I have gotten to the point that I feel I will continue through life without ever having that kind of need met. Sure, the other needs being met are great, but still shallow.

Desi, I think you and your husband are two very blessed people to have found each other and to be able to reach out and touch each other on the inside as well. I fear yourauntbob does not have this, and that perhaps he and I both share that void.

Going out to have a few beers with the mates does help, but it is still not the real McCoy.

[thailiketoo]

The educational theories of students questioning teachers are all good in theory, and work great in classrooms with the proper resources

and is usually made by those who have little or no practical experience in the subject

In a classroom of 30 students where a teacher has to work through a particular curriculum, with in a limited time schedule , If students were allowed to constantly disrupt the teacher, nothing will ever get done. It will not be long before the students catch on and that teacher is toast.

For God's Sakes Teachers! Stay on the Subject Matter! This Original Post had nothing to do with Teaching! Start your own Link!

Geese! No wonder why English Teachers here get such a low grade. They can't even stick to the subject they are supposed to teach!

Gold buggy you get an F for reading and comprehension.

This is from the OP

This brings me to another thing about Thai culture that drives me up a wall, the school system.

Actually, don’t ask the teacher any questions because that means you’re a) dumb, not listening. Talk about setting up a person to fail later in life. This cultural aspect leads a large amount of the population to be mindless drones walking through their job incapable of even the slightest amount of in-depth though. They were taught not to question anything in school, why start now?

No need for hard work, or critical thinking, just smile and show up (late mind you) and we will move you right along.

End of Quote OP.

You will notice a substantial part of the OP is about teaching and education in Thailand.

Edited January 24, 2014 by thailiketoo

[cup-O-coffee]

The OP has found and stays with a beautiful wife,and he is very lucky.There are real "gems" out there just waiting to be found and it can make all the difference to being happy or unhappy here.

Thai culture is here to be "understood" not changed.When we come to live here we should accept this and mold ourselves around this.This way can help us be happy here.

On the other hand if we have landed ourselves in an unhappy relationship this can sour our view of everything else here in thailand.

Just my 2 bobs worth.

i realize i cant change it, this is why i post about it. to vent, to get it off my chest, to keep myself from getting to the point i overflow with rage. that was the whole point of this post, "why do people stay in thailand if they like to complain so much"

You go right ahead and rant and rave and vent. Personally, I enjoy reading about how other people are feeling about living here. It allows me to see that I'm not the only guy that gets frustrated with the Thais, and I have observed that all of us Westerners generally complain about the same things.

When I first came here nearly 4 years ago I began to participate on another internet forum, and I gained a reputation for being the guy who never had anything good to say about the Thais. It was good therapy for me and helped me to transition, but now I have gotten to the point where I see it as just a total waste of time. Not one single Thai has changed anything to accommodate me in any way, and I have come to realize that nothing I can say or do is going to change that. I am finally at peace with having my world revolve around my wife and her two adult children, so now I just try my best to pretend that no one else exists outside of my own family. That's exactly the way the Thais have treated me...as if I don't exist, so in that sense I guess you could say that I have blended into the culture to some degree.

For most of my adult life I have been a leader and am used to being totally in control of my life and surroundings, so living in Thailand in no way suits my personality. So now I have my own little castle and I control everything within my 4 walls, and I have come to understand that when I step outside those walls I am at the mercy of a society that could care less that I am here. I have one farang friend outside my own family, and I'm content with that. He always says "it is what it is, so get used to it"! I will never understand the Thais, I will never get used to the culture and I will never accept their kind of behavior. Thank God I have a wife that makes it all worthwhile!

A very well crafted sentiment. So true on many levels. You are not alone.

[thailiketoo]

No, facts and information are not the problem, thinking skills are. Proper education is not targeted toward the work place, but in enabling kids to grow up to be responsible citizens capable of creating a proper democracy. As in willing to stand up to authority, challenging society's mainstream mores, ready to step up and help society change for the better.

And as long as it's impossible for a teacher to admit that their actual skills in English are not even close to a three-year-old NES, they're going to keep teaching the language WRONG, don't even know themselves how poor they are becauase everyone's always telling them how wonderful they are.

The people HIRING the teachers don't have a clue, totally unqualified to judge a good one from bad, the people putting the curriculum together, incompetence right up to the top and face, pride prevents anyone from ever admitting they need help, whether it's from Finland, Singapore, Shanghai/Macau/Hong Kong VIETNAM or even Romania, Bulgaria and Kazakhstan, all are doing much better than Thailand, many investing a much smaller proportion of GDP in education.

You wrote, "As in willing to stand up to authority, challenging society's mainstream mores, ready to step up and help society change for the better."

How do you reconcile this with the current reality in the streets of Bangkok now and for the past few years?

[Sam Gold]

Well done, Yourauntbob. Points well made.

Although you've left out what the true source of problems is in this country, which is that men aren't taught to act responsibly and women are taught to live with it. A lot of men in their 30's and 40's behave like teenagers and that is the main reason why this country is going nowhere.

What you have mentioned is true, but they are merely charming cultural quirks to me.

Couldn't disagree more. This country is full of enablers and co-dependents. You figure out who is who. These men you accuse (and I am agreeing that they are a problem) are the products of an upbringing which is almost entirely performed by women. Do not overlook the forest for the one, single tree.

This wasn't an attempt to categorize all Thai men in the same way, as I also know some absolute top blokes here.

That's why I said a lot of Thai men, implying they're not all like that, thankfully.

However, regarding your metaphor, I'm afraid it's more than just one tree we're dealing with here.

[cup-O-coffee]

Firstly, if I can call you Bob, I did read all of Your Post and I did enjoy it. It was truthful from the heart and I honestly don't think too many people who have lived here any length of time can disagree with the things that you talked about, that could normally frustrate anyone. But even though it is easy for me to see you are an intelligent man, I can also see you are a confused man about something's.

I normally throw in my two cents worth here, so consider this worth that much, I guess before you would even take me seriously, I need to tell you a little about myself. I am 59 Years Old and have been living Over-seas for over 20 years in many, many, different countries. Perhaps some of the worst places in the world. I honestly can't find on a map too many places I have not been to. So there you have it.

You already know what your problem is Bob, although you do not know it is a problem for you. You said "You know it is not the Thais fault, but you can't help that this drives you nuts!". I can understand that. You also know that only you can change that Bob. But why should you? Then you told us about your Lovely Thai Wife who treats you like Gold. This is why you need to change Bob! Why you probably came here to live in the first place, which in my view was not a mistake. Being unhappy here is!

So this is where my advice comes in. Stop and correct me anytime you think I am wrong, or a Liar, but not for my spelling mistakes, as English Teachers like to do. You came to Thailand to start a "New Life". For reasons unknown! Perhaps your Lovely Thai Woman, that made you take this giant step. Perhaps life back home for you was not so bad. Maybe even good in some ways.

But something very important was missing in your life that prevented you from being happy, and you knew that. Perhaps it was a Woman, as you were lonely, which would be normal for any Man without a Woman. Well for Gays to! But You Guys (Gal's) get my meaning for everyone! Lonely from a recent Divorce maybe, Separation, Break-up with your Girl Friend, or whatever!.There is no crime in that Bob! Being Lonely is Terrible! Adam proved that in the Bible, by almost dying until Eve showed up. After spending a thousand years with her, sleeping with her every night, and a couple of kids, he probable wished he committed suicide then instead. But that is another story!

I don't know you Bob, but I am sure you thought long and hard before coming over here to Thailand to live in your new life. Happy and excited about the new adventure in front of you. Probably planned everything well ahead of time, before your left, knowing you could get a job here, Kissed your mom good-bye. promised to see her soon, and loaded up with all your excess baggage.

That would be again normal for most of us. But did you do a Baggage Check on your "Excess Baggage" before you left Bob? I am not talking about the 2 or 3 bags you brought, but the invisible ones you brought. The 2 or 3 Box Car Loads from your Home Land! Might not know that, but you did, by your post.

You expected things to be different here Bob, but not so much. You are upset because you brought your culture with you, and expected it to fit into theirs. Like a Big Brand New Refrigerator that you brought, but discovered the Plug Ins are different, so you are frustrated and upset about that. Why don't they Fit!!!??? It is because this is not supposed to fit Bob. You are supposed to fit! Your Fridge comes from your Home Land, and their Fridge belongs here. Get My Point!

You hate driving here! I can understand that. I do to! So I don't! I find other ways! Don't put yourself doing things you did back home but hate here! Change that! Move if you need to get closer to work! Take a Baht Bus earlier and have a good time talking to strangers. Get a 100cc Motor Bike and have the Wife Drive you around. I discovered all Thai Women are now born with that in there hands! Do you feel foolish doing that? Who Cares Here! This is part of why you came here! Or go to Amsterdam and watch the Professors going to work on a Bicycle.

As I said, I have worked Over-seas a greater part of my life. I was taught early, and listened to what one Old Expat told me, which I still hold high today. He told me that there was 3 Golden "C" to working Over-seas to being happy. So I will share this with you.

1) Don't Compare! (to you home country)

2) Don't Criticize!

3) Don't Complain!

Honestly Bob, how many of those did you pass? Zero maybe? Oh Ya! I forgo!. No Fail Rate in Thailand!

So Sorry! I am still learning to!

Bob! It is You that has to change and not Thailand, or it's Beautiful People. Understand that! Stop doing the things you hate here, but did back home, and change! Come to work late to by Baht Bus to work! You have this impression they want you for your great knowledge, and culture. But what they really want is your English Language Skills, and knowledge, and hope you will adapt to their Culture, in their Country!

Which if you were in my country, you get a Big F so far. Which we still Fail Students like You!

Okay?

Couldn't disagree more.

This is the kind of "willing against one's will" that will drive a man to madness.

This is the kind of "denying one's individuality and respect towards that individuality" that will turn a man into a obsequious eunuch, with a nose ring.

This is the kind of advice which presumes that yourauntbob is incapable of exercising human decency and the other, higher levels of consciousness, which his OP and follow-up posts make it emphatically clear he has.

yourauntbob gets an A- from COC for finding a level of contentment which does not include the baggage that you are whispering into his ear.

[wym]

You wrote, "As in willing to stand up to authority, challenging society's mainstream mores, ready to step up and help society change for the better."

How do you reconcile this with the current reality in the streets of Bangkok now and for the past few years?

I think the grass roots people on both sides are gullible sheep, and their leaders on both sides are cynically corrupt wolves vying for wealth and power.

I think very very few people in any position of real power care about the welfare of the country as a whole - in other words the welfare of the common people. They'd rather keep their big pieces of the pie than grow the whole pie.

Those that genuinely do get it beaten out of them long before they get anywhere they can actually have any influence.

And I think that the education system is so poor because the elite send their kids to the international schools or overseas, therefore have no reason to fix it.

Some go so far as to say they don't want the commoners to get a good education, just want them trained to fit into their worker slots and not question or challenge anything.

And of course they've got very strong vested interests to keep the traditional culture of corruption, since they're the ones that benefit from it the most.

[thailiketoo]

You wrote, "As in willing to stand up to authority, challenging society's mainstream mores, ready to step up and help society change for the better."

How do you reconcile this with the current reality in the streets of Bangkok now and for the past few years?

I think the grass roots people on both sides are gullible sheep, and their leaders on both sides are cynically corrupt wolves vying for wealth and power.

I think very very few people in any position of real power care about the welfare of the country as a whole - in other words the welfare of the common people. They'd rather keep their big pieces of the pie than grow the whole pie.

Those that genuinely do get it beaten out of them long before they get anywhere they can actually have any influence.

And I think that the education system is so poor because the elite send their kids to the international schools or overseas, therefore have no reason to fix it.

Some go so far as to say they don't want the commoners to get a good education, just want them trained to fit into their worker slots and not question or challenge anything.

And of course they've got very strong vested interests to keep the traditional culture of corruption, since they're the ones that benefit from it the most.

You just completely ignored my question.

You wrote, "As in willing to stand up to authority, challenging society's mainstream mores, ready to step up and help society change for the better."

It's obvious isn't it? Red shirts and Yellow shirts don't agree. When the Yellow shirts are the government the Red shirts don't agree and hit the streets and protest. When the Red shirts are the government the Yellow shirts hit the streets and protest.

So both sides are willing to stand up to authority and challenge the prevailing government and make a change. So your are wrong. Even though you try and evade my question.

The latest news also reports that Cambodia has hundreds of thousands of unemployed graduates. The Economic Institute of Cambodia (EIC) reported that in 2007, only 1 graduate in 10 could find a job.

Higher education in public and private institutes in Thailand; 197. Of these, 76 are public (excluding universities for the religious training of monks). These 76 institutes can be categorized as 16 well established public universities, 2 open universities, 41 rajabhat universities, 9 universities of technology, 8 antonomous universities, 58 university extension campuses, 32 private universities, and 31 private colleges that offer bachelor programs. I also anticipate that more institutes of higher education will open in the future.

The Education Council estimated that the number of new students enrolled in bachelors programs between 2007 and 2016 will be approximately 500,000 each year, resulting in between 300,000 to 400,000 new graduates per annum.

The Thailand Development Research Institute ... estimated that in the next 5 years (between 2007 and 2011), 161,140 Bachelor graduates would be needed for all sectors of the economy – including the agricultural industrial, and service sectors – each year. During the subsequent 5 years (between 2012 and 2016), 145,348 bachelor graduates would be needed each year.

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=2435

That's 400,000 graduates and Thailand only needs 145,000. The rest will be clerking at 7/11.

SEA as a whole is over educated not undereducated.

Edited January 24, 2014 by thailiketoo

[wym]

No, you're ignoring my points. I keep telling you that a good education helps build the country, should have as little connection as possible to economic/career issues. I have no problem with PhDs driving taxis, happens all the time back home.

WRT to the political strife, once again, they're just two elite mafia groups fighting for control over the money and power that flows via corruption.

The actual common people aren't going to rise up and challenge those above them in the social/economic hierarchy until education has empowered them to throw of their society's feudal attitudes.

[thailiketoo]

No, you're ignoring my points. I keep telling you that a good education helps build the country, should have as little connection as possible to economic/career issues. I have no problem with PhDs driving taxis, happens all the time back home.

WRT to the political strife, once again, they're just two elite mafia groups fighting for control over the money and power that flows via corruption.

The actual common people aren't going to rise up and challenge those above them in the social/economic hierarchy until education has empowered them to throw of their society's feudal attitudes.

OK I'll ignore you're ignore and ask again.

You wrote. "The actual common people aren't going to rise up and challenge those above them in the social/economic hierarchy until education has empowered them to throw of their society's feudal attitudes."

So who are those people in the streets now and a few years ago. Now Yellow shirts; before Red shirts. It's not the rich folk who are camping out in streets and malls and airports.

[cashpower]

the international schools need to vet their falang teachers more carefully to weed out the sickos, perverts, weirdos and pedos (SPWP's) and also the Weirdo Youth Molesters

[Showbags]

the international schools need to vet their falang teachers more carefully to weed out the sickos, perverts, weirdos and pedos (SPWP's) and also the Weirdo Youth Molesters

That's touching....