I'll tell you why

[thailiketoo]

The OP wrote,"Here in Thailand, school is meant to be fun! No need for hard work, or critical thinking, just smile and show up (late mind you) and we will move you right along."

Another poster wrote, "Some go so far as to say they don't want the commoners to get a good education, just want them trained to fit into their worker slots and not question or challenge anything.

And of course they've got very strong vested interests to keep the traditional culture of corruption, since they're the ones that benefit from it the most." And, "For all employees of the MoE and school administrators to have a fundamental change of heart and both renounce corruption and admit they need help from overseas.

Without that - at least to some degree - I don't think there's any hope of solutions no matter how much extra money is thrown at the problem."

In recent PISA tests China scores number one above Western schools and Thai schools.

What is China doing that Thailand is not doing that results in such an improvement in Education?

[wym]

I'd like to find out myself, let me know if you do.

I am sure that the education administrators and teachers in those three Chinese cities started out by admitting they didn't know it all and were open to change, most likely from outside their own circle. They worked hard at improving their competence because they cared about getting good results above preserving their face.

[thailiketoo]

I'd like to find out myself, let me know if you do.

I am sure that the education administrators and teachers in those three Chinese cities started out by admitting they didn't know it all and were open to change, most likely from outside their own circle. They worked hard at improving their competence because they cared about getting good results above preserving their face.

And you are an expert high ranking Asian educator? You gotta be kidding me. Any Chines kid can tell you the answer. It's a Chinese mother. What ethnic group gets all the grades in the USA?

Why? Same reason. Chinese mother.

No, sir, corruption is not important. Socratic method is not important (you demonstrated that when I had the temerity to disagree with you). The Chinese mother is the reason Chinese kids get good grades.

Do those grades have anything to do with success or wealth or being smart or inventing things?

[wym]

bizarre

[thailiketoo]

bizarre

That is an answer a Thai teacher would give when asked to think outside of the box or when a student asked a question.

Mind, like parachute, only function when open.

Hidden tigers: why do Chinese children do so well at school?

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/feb/07/chinese-children-school-do-well

Edited January 26, 2014 by thailiketoo

[wym]

Then all those Chinese mothers that make up the majority in the elite Thai schools should be home schooling.

Of course parents make a critical difference.

But the PISA scores of those three cities were relatively low in the past.

Did those schools suddenly get an influx of students with Chinese mothers, where before they were some other nationality?

I understood the topic under discussion to be quality in school systems. Parents are another issue.

Edited January 26, 2014 by wym

[bundoi]

PISA...

- has been running only every 3 years only since 2000 (so don't take it as gospel)

- its methodology is considered to be fundamentally flawed by some educators in the UK (and probably other countries - see The Guardian, a liberal newspaper that would normally support things like PISA)

- in 2012 half a million 15 year old students worldwide were tested (not the millions as posted by someone earlier)

- 65 countries participated in 2012 (the 34 OECD nations plus 31 others)

- in some categories the USA performed under the OECD average

- it's important to assess Thailand's performance as a developing nation, not as a developed nation

I'm not trying to poohpooh PISA or to gloss over Thailand's results, but just trying to encourage honesty and accuracy.

If I were trying to draw big picture conclusions from the report I would bewail the declining performance of the UK and the USA before I started worrying about developing nations.

Also one needs to assess educational performance against labour needs. In Thailand agriculture still claims the largest % of the workforce; in Singapore it's services: they have different educational needs.

[thailiketoo]

Then all those Chinese mothers that make up the majority in the elite Thai schools should be home schooling.

Of course parents make a critical difference.

But the PISA scores of those three cities were relatively low in the past.

Did those schools suddenly get an influx of students with Chinese mothers, where before they were some other nationality?

I understood the topic under discussion to be quality in school systems. Parents are another issue.

You wrote, "Then all those Chinese mothers that make up the majority in the elite Thai schools should be home schooling."

I don't understand? Do you really not know it is the function of the Chinese mothers to pressure the offspring to do good and take advantage of opportunities the mothers didn't have (not to teach)?

I don't understand what Chinese mothers are in Thailand? Unless you want to launch into a discussion of Thai genetics? Do you?

For the purposes of our discussion I think we should assume Thais live in Thailand and Chinese live in China or the loonies will start coming out of the woodwork again.

From your past posts I'm assuming you have at least an MA in education. Am I wrong? Because you are talking like one of those alphabet guys (the TE something guys).

[thailiketoo]

PISA...

- has been running only every 3 years only since 2000 (so don't take it as gospel)

- its methodology is considered to be fundamentally flawed by some educators in the UK (and probably other countries - see The Guardian, a liberal newspaper that would normally support things like PISA)

- in 2012 half a million 15 year old students worldwide were tested (not the millions as posted by someone earlier)

- 65 countries participated in 2012 (the 34 OECD nations plus 31 others)

- in some categories the USA performed under the OECD average

- it's important to assess Thailand's performance as a developing nation, not as a developed nation

I'm not trying to poohpooh PISA or to gloss over Thailand's results, but just trying to encourage honesty and accuracy.

If I were trying to draw big picture conclusions from the report I would bewail the declining performance of the UK and the USA before I started worrying about developing nations.

Also one needs to assess educational performance against labour needs. In Thailand agriculture still claims the largest % of the workforce; in Singapore it's services: they have different educational needs.

I can go either way on PISA wym brought it up as an indicator of excellence in Education but I would imagine he'll start backtracking soon.

[wym]

Quote: "This brings me to another thing about Thai culture that drives me up a wall, the school system. Here in Thailand, school is meant to be fun! No need for hard work, or critical thinking, just smile and show up (late mind you) and we will move you right along. Actually, don’t ask the teacher any questions because that means you’re a) dumb, not listening. Talk about setting up a person to fail later in life."

I've always believed (and still do) that the reason questions usually are not asked or in some cases even allowed in class is that it would cause the teacher--not the student--to lose face. If questioned, it means that the teacher is not doing her or his job properly. She is the elder, the one to be respected, of course, and she has gone to a university. To ask a question that the teacher may be unprepared to answer would be embarrassing for all.

But the result is the same, i.e., the student is not allowed to live up to his or her potential, which is a disservice to society.