Cambodian citizens implicated in murder of Thai protester in Bang-na

[spirit47]

Suthep is showing classical signs of someone who is deranged and mentally ill .

Good we have some experts here, you doctor or stakeholder?

[Emptyset]

I don't know, if that murder was done by Cambodian or Thai killers, but Sutheps intelligence network might be superior to my simple knowledge.

But what I know is, that the Thai police can't be trusted one millimetre, even if there are some good people in between. They are rated the second most corrupt group, second only to the customs department. They are known to lie, to tamper with evidence, to extortion and even to killing. So if need be, I would not entrust them with my safety.

As for Khun Suthin's killer, I suspect(ed) that were Red Shirts from Samut Prakarn, who were wipped into a frenzy by agitators, who told them to make an example of the protesters. Reminds me very much of Navaphon and Krating Daeng youngsters from upcountry, who were brought in for the 1976 killing of the Thammasat students...

Red Gaur ... Red Shirts .... hmmmm makes one wonder doesn't it .... then there is/was Sae Daeng ... perhaps a lot of "red" (of various hues) related skeletons in the Thai political closet. Interesting topic for research if anyone dares and I guess they don't.

I don't know what specifically you think should be researched but if you're talking about the red shirts and their relation to the events of the 70s, then there are probably ordinary people of both sides whose parents may have been involved with the village scouts or red gaur. Certainly the village scouts because they had at least a couple of million members in the 70s IIRC. Only a small % of whom were involved in the Thammasat event. Navaphon were an elite organization - upper to middle class and more intellectual. They were not "upcountry youths" like the kratin daeng (assuming they were from upcountry - they were mostly high school drop outs, pool hall toughs, technical school kids, not necessarily from rural areas).

Ironically, the 70s mix would be close to the NSPRT itself, the technical students and southern youth plus a few middle class intellectual types like Suthin. Especially if one considers the mix of royalist-nationalism they espouse which is very similar to that of the 70s right-wing groups. They even play the same songs, "We Fight" is often played by the anti-govt side as is "Scum of the earth", a 70s anti-communist tune.

Alessio Fratticcioli ‏@fratticcioli Dec 9

MT @PravitR: Cold War anti-Communist songs are being played by Black-Yellow Shirts through loud speakers not far from Govt House! 14.05

However, there are people who were on the student side on both sides now, e.g. Thirayuth & Suriyasai on the anti-govt side, with the likes of Chaturon, Prommin, Somsak Jeam, Kasien etc more on the red side, the first two directly involved with the govdernment. Thaksin's closest advisor, Dr Pansak, was also a left-wing journalist in the 70s.

I do agree with Sam that there is some unfortunate, often abhorrent, rhetoric used by irresponsible red leaders and that some of the more "lumpen" working class members of the red shirts are violence prone, certainly more so than the middle class "good people" who hand 1000 baht notes to Suthep. I just disagree with him when he intimates it's one sided. Listening to the anti-govt stuff about red shirts being buffalo (often red shirts are described as not even human, not being Thai, not loving the King etc - v. similar to the anti-communist stuff in the 70s), being stupid, not worthy of a vote etc - a potent cocktail, often mixed with a jigger of class snobbery when the more well heeled members are involved. It's hardly surprising that there are violent reactions to this stuff.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Emptyset

[LevelHead]

I do believe in 1973 something similar happened, the "establishment/elite" tried to say most of the students were Vietnamese and this was the justification to put the students down.......

So are they just trying to do the same again ?

Funny how the Men In Black in 2010 were assumed to be red shirts - without any question, even though the army never managed to catch a single one.

And now in 2014 with the roles reversed they are all Cambodian is the suggestion.............

Laughable.

All in my opinion.

[bigbamboo]

With Hun Sen facing a similar uprising in Cambodia I would imagine he'd like to see the anti government movement in Thailand shot down (metaphorically speaking of course) as soon as possible.so they don't become an inspiration for the Cambodian people.

[londonthai]

... Or was it an average voter p,seed off with the closing of his voting station

[Siripon]

I do believe in 1973 something similar happened, the "establishment/elite" tried to say most of the students were Vietnamese and this was the justification to put the students down.......

So are they just trying to do the same again ?

Funny how the Men In Black in 2010 were assumed to be red shirts - without any question, even though the army never managed to catch a single one.

And now in 2014 with the roles reversed they are all Cambodian is the suggestion.............

Laughable.

All in my opinion.

Perhaps that's why they couldn't catch them in 2010 and now- they're Cambodian, off they go back across the border.

There was, and is, a lot of speculation about this, hopefully one day the truth will come out. It could well make for fascinating reading.

[Pikeybkk]

Does anyone else not think it is time that Khun Suthep started using his mouth instead of his ass for making press statements!

[kimamey]

Alice in Wonderland more believable than anything from this guy's mouth...

It's certainly possible but from the report he doesn't seem to have given any reason for his thinking so it's difficult to treat it as anything other than speculation based on no facts. Mind you that's pretty common here from what I've seen.

[GreenSnapper]

I'm happy he didn't say it was a farang on retirement visa.

[Dogmatix]

So Suthep says it may be a Cambodian and this rates a news story? At least he can supply a credible source for such an inflammatory story, can't he? No? Then please don't repeat more of his outrageous statements as "news." Propaganda should be left in the streets where it originated.

The point is that the police clearly had an opportunity to arrest the murderers but failed to do so. There were police nearby who let them escape. In most countries a shooting by a group of gunmen would have resulted a manhunt with roadblocks in place immediately. Here nothing. Since the police and CaMPO apparently let the shooters slip through their fingers, they should not complain about a great deal of speculation about who they were. They could quite easily have prevented the speculation by arresting them at or close to the spot.

[Dogmatix]

I'm happy he didn't say it was a farang on retirement visa.

But there are probably people looking for the farang with an Irish accent who videoed the murder.

[curious0one]

something going down at/near the cambo/arunyapratet border. as in fifteen minutes ago.

rescue trucks galore, sirens, speeding vehicles, and motos all with lights shining in the middle of the day. not sure what . maybe related . may be a bus accident. dont know other than it is something.

Edited January 27, 2014 by curious0one

[SamMunich]

I don't know what specifically you think should be researched but if you're talking about the red shirts and their relation to the events of the 70s, then there are probably ordinary people of both sides whose parents may have been involved with the village scouts or red gaur. Certainly the village scouts because they had at least a couple of million members in the 70s IIRC. Only a small % of whom were involved in the Thammasat event. Navaphon were an elite organization - upper to middle class and more intellectual. They were not "upcountry youths" like the kratin daeng (assuming they were from upcountry - they were mostly high school drop outs, pool hall toughs, technical school kids, not necessarily from rural areas).

Ironically, the 70s mix would be close to the NSPRT itself, the technical students and southern youth plus a few middle class intellectual types like Suthin. Especially if one considers the mix of royalist-nationalism they espouse which is very similar to that of the 70s right-wing groups. They even play the same songs, "We Fight" is often played by the anti-govt side as is "Scum of the earth", a 70s anti-communist tune.

...

However, there are people who were on the student side on both sides now, e.g. Thirayuth & Suriyasai on the anti-govt side, with the likes of Chaturon, Prommin, Somsak Jeam, Kasien etc more on the red side, the first two directly involved with the govdernment. Thaksin's closest advisor, Dr Pansak, was also a left-wing journalist in the 70s.

...

I do agree with Sam that there is some unfortunate, often abhorrent, rhetoric used by irresponsible red leaders and that some of the more "lumpen" working class members of the red shirts are violence prone, certainly more so than the middle class "good people" who hand 1000 baht notes to Suthep. I just disagree with him when he intimates it's one sided. Listening to the anti-govt stuff about red shirts being buffalo (often red shirts are described as not even human, not being Thai, not loving the King etc - v. similar to the anti-communist stuff in the 70s), being stupid, not worthy of a vote etc - a potent cocktail, often mixed with a jigger of class snobbery when the more well heeled members are involved. It's hardly surprising that there are violent reactions to this stuff.

Obviously "emptyset" is not so empty, as his name could imply. Good to know!

My point is, that it is right-wing people again and again, who are more prone to use violence. And "Lumpen-Proletariat" has always been a good canon-fodder for whoever pays them a few dimes. Just ask the Nazis.

The red color I would not over-emphasize, it is simple the auspicious color of Chinese and Thais with Chinese origin. Mao used it, Taksin used it, and they're on opposite ends.

And emptyset and I are on the same side, when it comes to objecting to the rhetorics turned into propaganda of both sides. I never felt comfortable in a crowd, that acts, shouts or sings in unisono. Gives me the "Reichsparteitags"-Feeling.

BUT in Asia things are different. Where in the Western culture brain beats numbers (of people), here numbers always beats brains. We are more, so we are right (or have the right to act in whatever way we do).

Maybe this mono-dimensional understanding of democracy is also part of the problem. We won the election, the red-shirts claim, so we can do as it pleases us.

[Siripon]

something going down at/near the cambo/arunyapratet border. as in fifteen minutes ago.

rescue trucks galore, sirens, speeding vehicles, and motos all with lights shining in the middle of the day. not sure what . maybe related . may be a bus accident. dont know other than it is something.

No doubt the Cambodian soldiers referred to speeding back across the border!

[AloisAmrein]

How Suthep can ask police protection for his illegal blocking of election sides? This man is really crazy.

[kingstonkid]

At least he only mentioned Cambodians and didn't try to involve the Americans or any other foreign power.

555 good point.

We want police protection yet we surround the police HQ and call you all incompetent cowards. Now i'm no expert however...

Not much different from the UDD and PTP charging the military as murderers in 2010 and then asking them to get involved with the protest now.

Let's face it in the best of times there are not many people Thai or Farang that trust the police.

[tomyummer]

Everyone knew that Suthin was the biggest thorn in Thaksin's involvement in PTT. He was the one bringing all the dirt to the surface of the shady company and dealings. This opportunity to take him out was just a matter of convenience so it could look like it was protest related when it actually was not.

[aaacorp]

The title of this news is a statement while the news itself speak of a possibility without any proof. This is not a professional way to deal with this kind of possible implication.

Edited January 27, 2014 by aaacorp

[plachon]

This is the oldest trick in the book in Thai politics, when the leaders want to deflect blame from a 100 % Thai problem, just blame foreigners from a handy neighbouring country that have no hope of defending themselves against this calumny. In October 1976, it was blaming the original troubles and then the subsequent deaths on Vietnamese stirring up things at Thammasat University. All very convenient and even though there is zero proof to back it up, the Thai sense of history is so weak and rampant nationalism is so strong, it allows a prime minister (Samak Sundaravej - who at the time was one of the chief instigators of the violence in fact) to say in an ABC interview that only two people died (as opposed to at least 45, probably many more as many people just disappeared) and they were just Vietnamese, thus somehow washing the entire massacre away as if it never happened. History has a nasty habit of repeating itself in Thailand, which is probably because its lessons are never learned and "truth" is a fungible concept for whoever happens to be in power. Always, though, blame homegrown problems on foreigners - it's the default response!

[kurtgruen]

Fact is, a peaceful man, who was not afraid to speak the truth and expose Thaksin's wrongdoings, is now dead.

In this case, we can definitely see, who benefited the most, from this murder.

[siampolee]

We might do well to remember who was and still is one of Hun Sens closest buddies within the Thai influential political banned or otherwise circle.

That buddy remember was appointed as an adviser to the Hun Sen regime if we cast your minds back.

Perchance no smoke without fire?

[spermwhale]

So Suthep says it may be a Cambodian and this rates a news story? At least he can supply a credible source for such an inflammatory story, can't he? No? Then please don't repeat more of his outrageous statements as "news." Propaganda should be left in the streets where it originated.

He's in lockstep with his allies in the military who presaged his announcement a few days earlier with an announcement that hired Muslim thugs were entering Thailand en masse.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Cambodians-smuggled-in-for-violent-attacks-Navy-30224877.html

[rickirs]

Well it could be any of a list of viable suspects, including this version.

Clearly there is no longer any compunction not to shoot protest leaders.

Who benefits from their deaths is also a unclear and flexible concept.

Factions in BOTH sides can use it to their benefit, the main losers are of course the deceased,

and the silent majority of Thais wishing to get on with their lives and have this political war close down.

Elite vs elite is only partly the story, it is also about the will of the people

to not be trampled by the winning side any more than for their side to go trampling others.

That would be the majorities position if one can be stated.

Fairness for ALL and no one takes undue advantage.

But that doesn't fit in the feudal Kow Tow mindset of politicians

"the main losers are of course the deceased"

Understatement of the century??

The deceased are the winners. They won't have to hear about this BS anymore.

[falangadang]

Its all starting to get very murky!

[rickirs]

What Suthep says is news ...

He's managed to neutralize the Government .... or haven't you noticed.

Suthep really hasn't nuetralized the Government except where his supporters have directly occupied government facilities and interferred with utilities to interrupt government workers doing their jobs. But he has seemed to intimidate both the police and the EC, both of whom are indepedent of the Government, into cowering before his protestors to the extent that they will not out of fear and recrimination do their jobs.

[fab4]

"tyrants who are ready to kill others to stay in power."

[wprime]

So Suthep says it may be a Cambodian and this rates a news story? At least he can supply a credible source for such an inflammatory story, can't he? No? Then please don't repeat more of his outrageous statements as "news." Propaganda should be left in the streets where it originated.

My thoughts concur, when I read the title I was hoping they might actually have some concrete instead it was just the random musings of a madman.

[fab4]

We might do well to remember who was and still is one of Hun Sens closest buddies within the Thai influential political banned or otherwise circle.

That buddy remember was appointed as an adviser to the Hun Sen regime if we cast your minds back.

Perchance no smoke without fire?

"Perchance no smoke without fire?"

Or the ramblings of madmen?

[rickirs]

So Suthep says it may be a Cambodian and this rates a news story? At least he can supply a credible source for such an inflammatory story, can't he? No? Then please don't repeat more of his outrageous statements as "news." Propaganda should be left in the streets where it originated.

The point is that the police clearly had an opportunity to arrest the murderers but failed to do so. There were police nearby who let them escape. In most countries a shooting by a group of gunmen would have resulted a manhunt with roadblocks in place immediately. Here nothing. Since the police and CaMPO apparently let the shooters slip through their fingers, they should not complain about a great deal of speculation about who they were. They could quite easily have prevented the speculation by arresting them at or close to the spot.

In the same vain the police could have enforced the State of Emergency and got the crowd of protestors down to at least a small group instead of a large, bunched upo group of targets.

[SOTIRIOS]

.......duh.....when does it become treason.....this is out of control....

...whether foreign or local assassins.....

....cruel....???

....criminal.....by any standards...