Shots, blasts as protest rivals clash on Thai election eve

[BlueNoseCodger]

If you overlay that Tavor assault rifle 3D rotated into position. It does look explain his hand and the bulge at the top where the sight would be. Even the crease in the bag.

I see Thailand's army has 58000 of them.

We do need to catch that gunman and find where he got this rifle from, and more importantly where his orders came from.

Are you asking us to believe that the red shirts don't have soldiers or ex-soldiers supporting them? What happened to "watermelon soldiers", or all the statements pointing out that a lot of soldiers come from the North East? What of the late Seh-Daeng's "Ronin warriors"?

I'm not familiar with your soundbites, and not clear why a catch phrase is evidence of anything. I can see from the PDRC shooter, that the overlay gun fits the Tavor, which is a Thai army rifle, so I want to know how he got it and who gave him orders to shoot people.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Some footage from the pro-election side yesterday

They are at the IT Mall shopping mall running from the bullets.

well, that's conclusive evidence... of what? actually from the sound of the shots it would seem that several are coming from inside the area (hence the echo).

I've found some footage of the gunmen shooting into IT Square that's causing all this panic. 15 minutes or so.

and do any of these videos DEFINITIVELY prove who fired first? because i think that is the most pertinent question that no one has been able to answer as of yet. no one (ok, no one with any sense) is denying that the PDRC were firing, but who were they firing at and why? you can post all the videos you want, but until that question is answered we are all just pissing in the wind

I think its a positive thing, that you yellows no longer deny your PDRC people did the shooting, and now fall back to the 'well you can't prove our guy shot first definitely'.

Added, if you can locate some video of a red shooter at IT Square, I'd like to see it. So far though, both the shooters and bombers are PDRC.

Edited February 2, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[dharmabm]

I think its a positive thing, that you yellows no longer deny your PDRC people did the shooting, and now fall back to the 'well you can't prove our guy shot first definitely'.

hehehe, you crack me up... i'm not a 'yellow' and it is not 'my PDRC' i am just another falang who is a relatively impartial observer getting fed up with other falangs trying to judge who is right and who is wrong in a political situation that none of us has any real understanding of or influence over. i have been here long enough to know that we will NEVER truly understand the culture here and cannot in any way shape or form try to impose our 'western' standards upon the actions of the native population and governance any more than the british could in shanghai or hong kong 200-300 years ago.

[pbeukelm]

Alll debate here follows the same lines: try to prove that the others are thugs and started the violence and that your side is just about self defense. The initiation of force is bad and self defense is good.

The problem is that if you support government, you are a thug that initiates violence. You support the idea that if your neighbor does not obey your governments laws, they should be fined if they refuse to pay, they should be clubbed and if they defend themselves they should be shot.

Your problem is not with violent thugs, but with the wrong violent thugs.

[DGIE]

We have mr Bomberman too, also with PDRC side.

He was visible on TNN24's news video feed. I'll try to find the original footage TNN got the video from, it appears to be an amateur quality video.

Here he is throwing (I've grabbed 3 frames)

bomb-thrower-frame1.jpg

bomb-thrower-frame2.jpg

bomb-thrower-frame3.jpg

Here is his face shortly after throwing the bomb:

bomb-thrower-face.jpg

Here he is with the green bag man, so you're clear he is a PDRC man

bomb-with-bag-man.jpg

And here his is following bag man, a shot of his face again

bomb-thrower-face-again.jpg

I cannot see the bomb you are talking about.

It is not clear if he is a PDRC man.

[DGIE]

I think its a positive thing, that you yellows no longer deny your PDRC people did the shooting, and now fall back to the 'well you can't prove our guy shot first definitely'.

hehehe, you crack me up... i'm not a 'yellow' and it is not 'my PDRC' i am just another falang who is a relatively impartial observer getting fed up with other falangs trying to judge who is right and who is wrong in a political situation that none of us has any real understanding of or influence over. i have been here long enough to know that we will NEVER truly understand the culture here and cannot in any way shape or form try to impose our 'western' standards upon the actions of the native population and governance any more than the british could in shanghai or hong kong 200-300 years ago.

But me, I am sometimes yellow or PDRC and sometimes red-shirt.

I don't know where I was favoring more. I think it was red when I was irritated of non-stop rally.

But I was also PDRC when I read about the poor farmers not getting paid.

Never mind. Whatever side I am supporting, my support is not considered here in Thailand. Just making fun here in Thaivisa.

Everytime I am fed up reading and joining comments, I shift to watching youtube.

[sammyD]

in a normal country this would be enough to nail people on dozens of charges ... i bet half have been named already

In this country, violence is enough to promote people to become Pheu Thai Members of Parliament.

[Gweiloman]

I think its a positive thing, that you yellows no longer deny your PDRC people did the shooting, and now fall back to the 'well you can't prove our guy shot first definitely'.

hehehe, you crack me up... i'm not a 'yellow' and it is not 'my PDRC' i am just another falang who is a relatively impartial observer getting fed up with other falangs trying to judge who is right and who is wrong in a political situation that none of us has any real understanding of or influence over. i have been here long enough to know that we will NEVER truly understand the culture here and cannot in any way shape or form try to impose our 'western' standards upon the actions of the native population and governance any more than the british could in shanghai or hong kong 200-300 years ago.

Why bother reading, posting and getting worked up then?

[dharmabm]

Why bother reading, posting and getting worked up then?

just a bit bored tonight, i guess

[englishoak]

in a normal country this would be enough to nail people on dozens of charges ... i bet half have been named already

In this country, violence is enough to promote people to become Pheu Thai Members of Parliament.

sure sure and if they join the democrats they turn to jesus.

[sammyD]

in a normal country this would be enough to nail people on dozens of charges ... i bet half have been named already

In this country, violence is enough to promote people to become Pheu Thai Members of Parliament.

sure sure and if they join the democrats they turn to jesus.

Difficult to differentiate between the reality you quote and fantasy you reply with, eh?

[smedly]

I find it interesting that the reds/Thaksin finds the need to have representation here on TV - I honestly don't see the need for it at all, the posters here have absolutely no influence on what goes on in Thailand, it's a load of old codgers with opinions and comments, the only reason I can think of is that Thaksin thinks that opinions here may be a threat on an international level but I somehow doubt that, even still he has his paid posters coming on here with the Pro Thaksin propaganda

[Bluespunk]

If you overlay that Tavor assault rifle 3D rotated into position. It does look explain his hand and the bulge at the top where the sight would be. Even the crease in the bag.

overlaid-gun.jpg

I see Thailand's army has 58000 of them.

We do need to catch that gunman and find where he got this rifle from, and more importantly where his orders came from.

We?

Edited February 2, 2014 by Bluespunk

[sundrenched]

I find it interesting that the reds/Thaksin finds the need to have representation here on TV - I honestly don't see the need for it at all, the posters here have absolutely no influence on what goes on in Thailand, it's a load of old codgers with opinions and comments, the only reason I can think of is that Thaksin thinks that opinions here may be a threat on an international level but I somehow doubt that, even still he has his paid posters coming on here with the Pro Thaksin propaganda

How much did Suthep pay you for that troll post?

But at least you guys are consistent. If you lose elections, it's not because of you but because people sold their votes. If your comments on the Bangkok Post get a lot of dislikes, you whine about the click brigade from Dubai. And you're doing the same here. No one who dislikes the Yellows and their antics could possibly be sincere, ever. Right?

The simplest explanations are usually true: most people are fed up with that hypocrit windbag Suthep and his whiny Democrats who won't come up with an electable platform.

Edited February 2, 2014 by sundrenched

[smedly]

I find it interesting that the reds/Thaksin finds the need to have representation here on TV - I honestly don't see the need for it at all, the posters here have absolutely no influence on what goes on in Thailand, it's a load of old codgers with opinions and comments, the only reason I can think of is that Thaksin thinks that opinions here may be a threat on an international level but I somehow doubt that, even still he has his paid posters coming on here with the Pro Thaksin propaganda

How much did Suthep pay you for that troll post?

But at least you guys are consistent. If you lose elections, it's not because of you but because people sold their votes. If your comments on the Bangkok Post get a lot of dislikes, you whine about the click brigade from Dubai. And you're doing the same here. No one who dislikes the Yellows and their antics could possibly be sincere, ever. Right?

The simplest explanations are usually true: most people are fed up with that hypocrit windbag Suthep and his whiny Democrats who won't come up with an electable platform.

I am not pro Suthep or pro yellow - I am pro Thai and I do know enough that an election will fix nothing here and neither will PTP, I also know that a lot of money has been stolen from the Thai people in the last 2.5 years

I'll set you a task, count up how many people are involved in politics that have already been banned for 5 years or are waiting for court judgments or have already been convicted or are under investigation by the authorities, that should help you understand were I'm at

[Ulysses G.]

I am not pro Suthep or pro yellow

Then why are you posting stupid accusations that members are being paid to post by the other side? The truth is that both sides are as bad as each other.

[Bluespunk]

I find it interesting that the reds/Thaksin finds the need to have representation here on TV - I honestly don't see the need for it at all, the posters here have absolutely no influence on what goes on in Thailand, it's a load of old codgers with opinions and comments, the only reason I can think of is that Thaksin thinks that opinions here may be a threat on an international level but I somehow doubt that, even still he has his paid posters coming on here with the Pro Thaksin propaganda

How much did Suthep pay you for that troll post?

But at least you guys are consistent. If you lose elections, it's not because of you but because people sold their votes. If your comments on the Bangkok Post get a lot of dislikes, you whine about the click brigade from Dubai. And you're doing the same here. No one who dislikes the Yellows and their antics could possibly be sincere, ever. Right?

The simplest explanations are usually true: most people are fed up with that hypocrit windbag Suthep and his whiny Democrats who won't come up with an electable platform.

suthep isn't a member of the Democrat party.

[casualbiker]

If you overlay that Tavor assault rifle 3D rotated into position. It does look explain his hand and the bulge at the top where the sight would be. Even the crease in the bag.

I see Thailand's army has 58000 of them.

We do need to catch that gunman and find where he got this rifle from, and more importantly where his orders came from.

Are you asking us to believe that the red shirts don't have soldiers or ex-soldiers supporting them? What happened to "watermelon soldiers", or all the statements pointing out that a lot of soldiers come from the North East? What of the late Seh-Daeng's "Ronin warriors"?

I'm not familiar with your soundbites, and not clear why a catch phrase is evidence of anything. I can see from the PDRC shooter, that the overlay gun fits the Tavor, which is a Thai army rifle, so I want to know how he got it and who gave him orders to shoot people.

There are still the 26 Tavor's stolen / misappropriated in 2010 to consider. Supposedly handed to the police by the red shirts BUT not given back to the Army.

Not sure if the police have access to Tavor's. I know they have M16's.

Everyone says that the gunmen looked Army trained .. it also looked like SWAT style.

Has anyone else noticed that the white van looks like it was broken into. Look at the drivers door!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited February 3, 2014 by casualbiker

[sundrenched]

suthep isn't a member of the Democrat party.

And Thaksin isn't a politician.

[Bluespunk]

suthep isn't a member of the Democrat party.

And Thaksin isn't a politician.

No he's not. He's fugitive criminal.

In addition, I repeat, suthep is not a member of the Democrat party.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Bluespunk

[sundrenched]

suthep isn't a member of the Democrat party.

And Thaksin isn't a politician.

No he's not. He's fugitive criminal.

In addition, I repeat, suthep is not a member of the Democrat party.

Jeez, do I need to explain? Just because he resigned from the Democrats for show doesn't mean he's not completely embedded in the Democrat camp. To imply that Suthep is independent of the Democrats is no more credible than to say Thaksin hasn't had anything to do with Thai politics since 2006. I see Suthep handing in his party badge as another slick move: If there's a backlash against the PDRC, the Democrats can wash their hands off it saying they had nothing to do with it. If the protests succeed, they reap all the benefit. (To save you a reply, I don't buy the crap about the council of "good people" either.)

PS: I'll add the obligatory "I'm not a Thaksin fan either" here. Way I see it, both camps are rotten to the core, so I see no point disenfranchising the majority (again), rewarding lawlessness, backroom scheming, and tearing up the constitution, to shift power from one set of bastards to the other. The only good thing I see in this situation is that now the ground is being laid for a third party to come in and offer cleaner politics. But the current lot of politicians (none more than AV and Suthep) are dinosaurs and finished.

Edited February 3, 2014 by sundrenched

[Bluespunk]

suthep isn't a member of the Democrat party.

And Thaksin isn't a politician.

No he's not. He's fugitive criminal.

In addition, I repeat, suthep is not a member of the Democrat party.

Jeez, do I need to explain? Just because he resigned from the Democrats for show doesn't mean he's not completely embedded in the Democrat camp. To imply that Suthep is independent of the Democrats is no more credible than to say Thaksin hasn't had anything to do with Thai politics since 2006. I see Suthep handing in his party badge as another slick move: If there's a backlash against the PDRC, the Democrats can wash their hands off it saying they had nothing to do with it. If the protests succeed, they reap all the benefit. (To save you a reply, I don't buy the crap about the council of "good people" either.)

PS: I'll add the obligatory "I'm not a Thaksin fan either" here. Way I see it, both camps are rotten to the core, so I see no point disenfranchising the majority (again), rewarding lawlessness, backroom scheming, and tearing up the constitution, to shift power from one set of bastards to the other. The only good thing I see in this situation is that now the ground is being laid for a third party to come in and offer cleaner politics. But the current lot of politicians (none more than AV and Suthep) are dinosaurs and finished.

Jeez, do I need to explain again. He is NOT a democrat, not matter how much you want to include suthep's fascism as Dem policy you are wrong. He left and went his own megalomaniac way. I have nothing but contempt for the man but he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy.

[Publicus]

I find it interesting that the reds/Thaksin finds the need to have representation here on TV - I honestly don't see the need for it at all, the posters here have absolutely no influence on what goes on in Thailand, it's a load of old codgers with opinions and comments, the only reason I can think of is that Thaksin thinks that opinions here may be a threat on an international level but I somehow doubt that, even still he has his paid posters coming on here with the Pro Thaksin propaganda

You are wrong, especially in misinterpreting and misunderstanding fahlang that post here in their understanding of the socioeconomic dynamics occurring in contemporary Thailand.

A number of Thais I've come to know well over many years discuss these matters with me willingly and at their own initiative, albeit in certain limited ways, consistently asking me over time why there are fahlang that don't like Thaksin, what exactly fahlang think and believe concerning conflicts in Thai society, what makes fahlang so interested in Thai society, politics, government, education and other issues specific to Thailand (fahlang come from open democracies).

Thai friends want to know why fahlang come to Thailand, which is an involved matter for any one of us to discuss given the diversity of fahlang here and the variety of reasons and motives fahlang come here and, moreover, that so many fahlang become long term residents and even citizens, a matter I several years ago considered (dual citizenship) and dismissed.

Thais, mostly young, that pursue these matters are impacted by consideration of them and by the responses they get from the fahlang they solicit in their inquiries. They communicate the information and knowledge they acquire from us to their peers and elders, thus impacting the larger Thai society.

Indeed, the Thai establishment has the platforms of two major English language newspapers that communicate Thai society to fahlang in specific ways in the stories they choose to present and in the manner they choose to write the articles, opinion pieces, analyses offered to fahlang to consider. Fahlang have and participate in other platforms of communication and interaction in the many online forums run by either fahlang or by Thais themselves, among other platforms of communication.

I have noticed a clearly significant difference between Thai men or women in these respects, with these certain few Thai men more curious and open, whereas Thai women distance themselves from fahlang in these matters and definitely are more likely to lecture fahlang in our noseiness while also taking pains to explain Thai society, culture, developments, as if fahlang were aliens that just arrived on planet earth and by happenstance smashed down right here in Thailand.

I'd say that no matter how long fahlang can be here, it remains a strange existence and experience, one from which you are distant in significant and substantial ways and which you just don't appreciate because you dwell only on the remote surface of it, pretty much in standoffish ways.

[Gweiloman]

No he's not. He's fugitive criminal.

In addition, I repeat, suthep is not a member of the Democrat party.

Jeez, do I need to explain? Just because he resigned from the Democrats for show doesn't mean he's not completely embedded in the Democrat camp. To imply that Suthep is independent of the Democrats is no more credible than to say Thaksin hasn't had anything to do with Thai politics since 2006. I see Suthep handing in his party badge as another slick move: If there's a backlash against the PDRC, the Democrats can wash their hands off it saying they had nothing to do with it. If the protests succeed, they reap all the benefit. (To save you a reply, I don't buy the crap about the council of "good people" either.)

PS: I'll add the obligatory "I'm not a Thaksin fan either" here. Way I see it, both camps are rotten to the core, so I see no point disenfranchising the majority (again), rewarding lawlessness, backroom scheming, and tearing up the constitution, to shift power from one set of bastards to the other. The only good thing I see in this situation is that now the ground is being laid for a third party to come in and offer cleaner politics. But the current lot of politicians (none more than AV and Suthep) are dinosaurs and finished.

Jeez, do I need to explain again. He is NOT a democrat, not matter how much you want to include suthep's fascism as Dem policy you are wrong. He left and went his own megalomaniac way. I have nothing but contempt for the man but he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy.

"he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy"

He says to the people, do not vote, and the leader of the Dems acts accordingly. Coincidence?

[Bluespunk]

No he's not. He's fugitive criminal.

In addition, I repeat, suthep is not a member of the Democrat party.

Jeez, do I need to explain? Just because he resigned from the Democrats for show doesn't mean he's not completely embedded in the Democrat camp. To imply that Suthep is independent of the Democrats is no more credible than to say Thaksin hasn't had anything to do with Thai politics since 2006. I see Suthep handing in his party badge as another slick move: If there's a backlash against the PDRC, the Democrats can wash their hands off it saying they had nothing to do with it. If the protests succeed, they reap all the benefit. (To save you a reply, I don't buy the crap about the council of "good people" either.)

PS: I'll add the obligatory "I'm not a Thaksin fan either" here. Way I see it, both camps are rotten to the core, so I see no point disenfranchising the majority (again), rewarding lawlessness, backroom scheming, and tearing up the constitution, to shift power from one set of bastards to the other. The only good thing I see in this situation is that now the ground is being laid for a third party to come in and offer cleaner politics. But the current lot of politicians (none more than AV and Suthep) are dinosaurs and finished.

Jeez, do I need to explain again. He is NOT a democrat, not matter how much you want to include suthep's fascism as Dem policy you are wrong. He left and went his own megalomaniac way. I have nothing but contempt for the man but he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy.

"he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy"

He says to the people, do not vote, and the leader of the Dems acts accordingly. Coincidence?

No that was stupidity and I said so at the time. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend' idiotic thinking on their part.

Does not change the fact that suthep and his fascist megalomania is not Dem policy. It does not change the fact he is not a Dem.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Bluespunk

[englishoak]

Im sure you know blue that Suthep spent decades as part of the Democrats even to the point of deputy PM, caused the collapse of PAD. This man is a democrat through and through, more so even than Mark, the ideals and policy he has is conducive with PAD before and many times voice by the Democrats... the only thing that really is different is the name democrat in the thai party and the meaning of a democrat.

Someone does not suddenly just leave a party and go off like Suthep has done, they are tied at the hip in both policy aims and thinking... He may be more radical and thinks he can be as not being part of the dems any longer but the truth is he was part of them for so long and deputy PM to Mark the fruit dosnt fall far from the tree. He didnt just wake up one day and have an epiphany.

The dems are very much linked to Suthep and visa verse i cant see how they can be considered as much different apart from in an electoral basis, same as the UDD is without doubt linked to any Thaksin based party, Many political parties in the world have radical or strong arm affiliated groups that they deny being linked to. Im sorry but it is what it is.. PRDC and Dems are practically one and the same bar the political party status the Dems have.

Edited February 3, 2014 by englishoak

[HD 205]

Jeez, do I need to explain again. He is NOT a democrat, not matter how much you want to include suthep's fascism as Dem policy you are wrong. He left and went his own megalomaniac way. I have nothing but contempt for the man but he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy.

"he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy"

He says to the people, do not vote, and the leader of the Dems acts accordingly. Coincidence?

No that was stupidity and I said so at the time. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend' idiotic thinking on their part.

Does not change the fact that suthep and his fascist megalomania is not Dem policy. It does not change the fact he is not a Dem.

It seems that you have been fooled into believing such an obvious untruth.

Abhisit at the rallies should be enough alone to convince you - But there's plenty of other over-obvious links.

However, I won't go into any greater detail as I can tell your mind is already made up on this - as is mine, so it's counterproductive for both of us to debate it.

[Bluespunk]

Im sure you know blue that Suthep spent decades as part of the Democrats even to the point of deputy PM, caused the collapse of PAD. This man is a democrat through and through, more so even than Mark, the ideals and policy he has is conducive with PAD before and many times voice by the Democrats... the only thing that really is different is the name democrat in the thai party and the meaning of a democrat.

Someone does not suddenly just leave a party and go off like Suthep has done, they are tied at the hip in both policy aims and thinking... He may be more radical and thinks he can be as not being part of the dems any longer but the truth is he was part of them for so long and deputy PM to Mark the fruit dosnt fall far from the tree. He didnt just wake up one day and have an epiphany.

The dems are very much linked to Suthep and visa verse i cant see how they can be considered as much different apart from in an electoral basis, same as the UDD is without doubt linked to any Thaksin based party, Many political parties in the world have radical or strong arm affiliated groups that they deny being linked to. Im sorry but it is what it is.. PRDC and Dems are practically one and the same bar the political party status the Dems have.

Just because you want something to be true, it doesn't mean it is. Dems and pdrc are not the same. Never were, never will be.

The UDD is more than linked to PT, they are their bully boy street thug fascist militia.

Suthep, like Mosely and Mussolini before him, went off the deep end and formed his own fascist movement. Thankfully his is failing. He is not a democrat and it really is sad to see so many try to use his lunacy to discredit the Dems.

Who is Mark or is this some sort of attempt to slur another person by refusing to use their real name in an attempt to make them seem less Thai and disconnected from their country? It's a tactic I see a number of posters use.

Suthep isn't radical, he's a throwback.

[Bluespunk]

Jeez, do I need to explain again. He is NOT a democrat, not matter how much you want to include suthep's fascism as Dem policy you are wrong. He left and went his own megalomaniac way. I have nothing but contempt for the man but he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy.

"he is not a Dem and his thinking is not Dem policy"

He says to the people, do not vote, and the leader of the Dems acts accordingly. Coincidence?

No that was stupidity and I said so at the time. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend' idiotic thinking on their part.

Does not change the fact that suthep and his fascist megalomania is not Dem policy. It does not change the fact he is not a Dem.

It seems that you have been fooled into believing such an obvious untruth.

Abhisit at the rallies should be enough alone to convince you - But there's plenty of other over-obvious links.

However, I won't go into any greater detail as I can tell your mind is already made up on this - as is mine, so it's counterproductive for both of us to debate it.

I'm not fooled. I just see reality and not the faux reality I desire.

[pbeukelm]

Fascism is what Mussolini called:

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power ... Benito Mussolini

It means using government force to sell privileges to friends. I bet both sides are guilty of that. The only reason to seek power over other people is to sell them afterwards.

All power comes from the barrel of a gun.