Cost of buying/starting small business generation 30K/mth profit?

[RecklessRon]

I'm looking to start or buy a small business that I don't have to work too hard at, doesn't hurt anyone and isn't involved with bar girls or partying. It doesn't have to make me rich, just enough to live comfortable somewhere in Chiang Mai province, which is variable depending on the business.

So... any suggestions on business/locations and their ballpark buy/start price to generate 30K per month net profit?

Added: BTW: I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!

Edited February 2, 2014 by RecklessRon

[Paangjang]

Check out the classifieds section here on Thaivisa or bahtsold dot com. I'd reply to the ads regarding monthly income etc, most of them don't publish this info. Also try to stay away from failed farang/Bar girl salons and massage shops. I try to stick to tourist related business'. Something that your comfy with. Food/snack/dessert related is always a good one as people will always eat! Finally condider the changing tourist demographics here in CM. If you do look into a food related business, consider things that both westerners and Chinese will enjoy. Otherwise your only limiting your market.

My ฿2's worth

[harryfrompattaya]

You can start a school to teach begging I did that 65 years ago in Nashville Tennessee USA I charge nothing but I got a small percentage of the days begging I made in this day about 3,000 dollars month.

I had a friend that taught cooking and made more he did not know how to cook

[FiftyTwo]

The chances of a foreigner making money legally in CM are very low.

PS

Everyone else buys their gfs a coffee shop, hairdressers, laundry.

I would suggest coffee shop as the Thais usually don't nick all the stock and it isn't hard work, gf can just use the free wifi all day. Down side is she meets loads of horny old white guys with more cash than you.

Hairdressers, all her pals come round for free ones, and you keep paying for stock.

Laundry, work is too hard and your gf will clear off after a while.

Make sure the premises have accomodation on site, so at least you get something back (a place to live).

Key money, best not to pay any, rent a shop front, minimize your outlay, you won't be getting anything back.

Edited February 2, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[eyecatcher]

If you are not committed to stick with whatever you do for 3 yrs you will lose on your investment for sure.

You have to put the initial work in and not just expect to buy something ready to go.....those are the ones which will be hard to recoup.

Look at paying your investment back in 3yrs so if you want 30k a month then don't spend more than 1 million.

Make your product unique or special and make sure you get at least a three year rental lease at less than half your profit.

And don't let someone discourage you from massage, that's what I do, and I knew nothing about them 2yr ago, but six figure incomes every month paid off my initial investment a while ago.

But whatever you do its not a walk in the park, and you haven't to take it on lightly.

[limegreenpatato]

The chances of a foreigner making money legally in CM are very low.

PS

Everyone else buys their gfs a coffee shop, hairdressers, laundry.

I would suggest coffee shop as the Thais usually don't nick all the stock and it isn't hard work, gf can just use the free wifi all day. Down side is she meets loads of horny old white guys with more cash than you.

Hairdressers, all her pals come round for free ones, and you keep paying for stock.

Laundry, work is too hard and your gf will clear off after a while.

Make sure the premises have accomodation on site, so at least you get something back (a place to live).

Key money, best not to pay any, rent a shop front, minimize your outlay, you won't be getting anything back.

There are lots of foreigners making money legally in Chiang Mai. Nice try though

[FiftyTwo]

The chances of a foreigner making money legally in CM are very low.

PS

Everyone else buys their gfs a coffee shop, hairdressers, laundry.

I would suggest coffee shop as the Thais usually don't nick all the stock and it isn't hard work, gf can just use the free wifi all day. Down side is she meets loads of horny old white guys with more cash than you.

Hairdressers, all her pals come round for free ones, and you keep paying for stock.

Laundry, work is too hard and your gf will clear off after a while.

Make sure the premises have accomodation on site, so at least you get something back (a place to live).

Key money, best not to pay any, rent a shop front, minimize your outlay, you won't be getting anything back.

There are lots of foreigners making money legally in Chiang Mai. Nice try though

Dukes, Mad Dog, Sausage King, G&M ...... can't name another.

But can name loads that went bust, and loads where the foreigner works illegally round the back to keep costs down.

Not to mention all the illegal internet business, bars that really sell girls and drugs, etc.

Oh, forgot the teachers, some actually have WPs, but they usually break the law working illegally on the side.

Anyway

I get the idea this is a business for a Thai gf (or a foreign guy)with no skills.

So you can forget teaching or internet from the list of possibilities.

Edited February 2, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[RecklessRon]

If you are not committed to stick with whatever you do for 3 yrs you will lose on your investment for sure.

You have to put the initial work in and not just expect to buy something ready to go.....those are the ones which will be hard to recoup.

Look at paying your investment back in 3yrs so if you want 30k a month then don't spend more than 1 million.

Make your product unique or special and make sure you get at least a three year rental lease at less than half your profit.

And don't let someone discourage you from massage, that's what I do, and I knew nothing about them 2yr ago, but six figure incomes every month paid off my initial investment a while ago.

But whatever you do its not a walk in the park, and you haven't to take it on lightly.

I'm in it for the long haul so I don't care if it takes a while to get up to 30K B/mth. I'm not interested in fast money, like you can make in massage, I'm interested in stability and longevity. That rules out bars and discos and restaurants and massage and...

I'm thinking things like bakery, noodle shop, computer repair ... all in areas that actually need them may be the best best?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Chiang Mai (and Thailand in general) is a much better place to spend money than to make it.

If you're only breaking even in 15-20 years like you mention in your post then really just put that money in a bank or something else with a predictable return, and you'll do a lot better.

The only reason to actually do it would be to keep you or the Mrs. entertained during the day, without any specific goal or need of making money, and as long as it loses money less than the cost of playing golf or drinking all day then you can consider that coming out on top. But even then, yet another coffee shop? (Not to mention that you rule out restaurants, but then specifically include bakeries and noodle shops..)

Anyway, if this was easy to answer then people would be doing it themselves. Running a business is an incredible effort and investment of your time. There are no easy businesses providing a reliable return for not too much work. (And believe me, I really wish this weren't so.)

Edited February 2, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[RecklessRon]

Chiang Mai (and Thailand in general) is a much better place to spend money than to make it.

If you're only breaking even in 15-20 years like you mention in your post then really just put that money in a bank or something else with a predictable return, and you'll do a lot better.

The only reason to actually do it would be to keep you or the Mrs. entertained during the day, without any specific goal or need of making money, and as long as it loses money less than the cost of playing golf or drinking all day then you can consider that coming out on top. But even then, yet another coffee shop? (Not to mention that you rule out restaurants, but then specifically include bakeries and noodle shops..)

Anyway, if this was easy to answer then people would be doing it themselves. Running a business is an incredible effort and investment of your time. There are no easy businesses providing a reliable return for not too much work. (And believe me, I really wish this weren't so.)

I agree, in general, that Thailand isn't a place to come to find a job and earn money OR buy a bar and get rich!

My problem is I have enough to live well for 15 years but might live another 40. Because bank interest is so low there is no way to leverage any reasonable income from it - deposited into a bank at somewhere near 3% I run out in 15 years. However I hope I can easily buy one, or a few, small business that, together earn 30K Baht per month. It doesn't matter to me if it is one, or more, one-person noodle shop(s), or a computer repair shop with 6 staff, or a dairy with 10 staff!

BTW:

Doing some math: 1,000 baht per day / 100 customers = 10B net profit per customer. 20B per customer is required if only 50 customers per day or 50B from 20 customers - so... finding a business that will average that isn't unreasonable to expect when I'm not as concerned with the purchase price, the initial income or the break-even time!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Okay, but actually owning and controlling a business yourself legally in Thailand already requires a level of expertise and organization that would essentially be the same as what's required for a much larger business. To do it legally -and for this to be a long term plan that you need to really on for 20 years into the future, it better be legal-, you'll be doing all the same business administration crap that multinational factories would do, including all the accounting stuff, getting yourself a work permit, and other legal and regulatory hoops to jump through. For a bigger business all that level of effort and organization is just fine. But not for someone looking to score 1000 baht a day.

Now, most people don't do any of the above, but then you're in the same league as all other retirees sponsoring a shop of some kind for their T-WAGS. (Thai Wives and girlfriends): incredibly cute, but not something that you'd expect to actually last for 20 years. (You'd have most beat if you last longer than two. )

[jackr]

How's about a simple dumpling shop for the upcoming surge of orients? Saying that, I tend to think the fewer natives you have involved in any venture here, the fewer the headaches, so might be best to stick with online poker or buying/selling condos.

[Oscar2]

how about buying some dividend paying stocks? i don't get what you are trying to do. i bought stocks 30 years ago and collect dividends every year. not to mention the value of the stock is up appx. 450% over the 30 years.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Do think there's some business to be done in tourism, specifically tourists from new markets like China, and then when the Western economies improve them perhaps we'll see some more Western (family) tourists too.

And buying and selling <anything> is always a prime candidate of course.

EDIT:

But let's see, the OP said he could last 15 years on his savings, so that probably means he has something like 8-10 million Baht in the bank.That would buy about three nice properties, each of which could make 15 K in rent per month, so 45,000 Baht. And that is about as easy as it gets.

It's also reasonably secure against inflation, as rental prices and the overall value of the property would go up, assuming he makes the right choices and gets places in a desirable downtown area.

Probably not considered 100% legal though, and there is the potential for it to become 100% illegal whenever anyone in any government feels like it.

Still an awffully big gamble with life savings though. Especially as Thailand isn't all that stable; for all we know we could be looking at The Killing Fields in a couple months/years time.

Edited February 2, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[puukao]

I talked to a a street vendor. 14 hour days with gf, 7 days a week, 30k GROSS profit. and I know about 5-6 that went out of business.

#1 rule, to me, Work in your passion or it will fail.

#2 rule, to me, Hire trustworthy people.

#3 rule, to me, save and don't brag about the money you are making.

if you don't care about those rules, then take advice from others on how your time should be spent. Get on the phone, call 1,000,000 people and try to sell them bike tours at 200,000 baht each. Let's say you only get 5% signed-up........you are rich!!! this logic is good for a kindergarten kid.

good news....in the next 5-years, there will be some big countries whose interest rates will go significantly higher. zero-coupon bonds. buy tons, maturity 10-years out.

thank me later. i accept cash only.

[iancnx]

Buy 3x studio condos and rent them for 10k each per month.

[Johpa]

Any enterprise that would generate 30k net profit monthly, net profit margins are usually single digits, implies you are going to have to put a significant amount of capital at risk or come up with a really unique idea that catches on quickly. Food services and "I don't have to work too hard" tend to be mutually incompatible concepts. And computer repairs in the age of tablets and smartphones is becoming something akin to typewriter repair.

[Mark1971]

"Added: BTW: I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!"

If you are putting capital at risk, ROI is very important.

15 to 20 years is a long time, what if the business does ok then suddenly stops working after 8 years?

You have lost both your capital & income, in that situation Thailand is not a good place to be.

If you had recovered your initial investment after 2 or 3 years, things would be ok as you still have your capital.

[Mark1971]

On the off chance that "Reckless Ron" is a serious poster, and not a troll.

1. Minimize the risk to your capital.

If you loose your capital, it's time to go back to farang land with your tail between your legs.

2. Your posts match your name "Reckless", be very sceptical of any PM's or offers of help in reply to this post.

There are a lot of people who would love to separate you from your nest egg.

3. Do you have an honest, hard working Thai wife / partner that you trust?

Much easier to make a business work with a good local partner.

4. Making 30k a month should be easy, I can think of 10+ ideas that have a high probability of working.

None require > 1 Million Baht capital investment.

All require a bit of hard work by your Thai partner & your support.

[Chicog]

Seriously?

[stiggy]

An impossible question, similar to asking how long is the piece of string that I need?

Only advice I would give.

*Do it legally, i.e. W.P etc

*Only Invest what you can simply walk away from, if need arises

*Try to find something that cannot be copied easily, there is absolutely no shame in LOS about opening up right next door, with the same idea, even exact same menu or product/service line only a small % cheaper

* Be sure you trust who ever is working for you, I was incredibly lucky and eventualy had great staff, but took a few to get there.

*Never pay up front for initial order or service, part payments till completion always worked best in my experience

Then Enjoy your independence and have fun

[justcruisin]

Another thing to consider is that as soon as you set up busines, the locals will set up the same/copy two doors down, if they see you are making a reasonable income.

I know you said capital input over a long term is of no concern but here it is way different. There is some jealousy involved when they see that a westerner is doing fine running a great business.

I know the interest rates in the west are not great so go for it but don't put money here that you are not willing to walk away from!

Angels Fear to Tread where Fools Rush In!

[arunsakda]

Buy 3x studio condos and rent them for 10k each per month.

To do this in a %100 legal way requires a business license and tax certificate correct?

[BKKdreaming]

if you are in a tourist area can you sell a food from your home area that tourists might like and thais will try....

Maybe one thing for Breakfast , another lunch and another for Dinner

Ebay or internet selling of stuff Thais are selling / making around you and would have no way of ever selling out of Thailand

Personalized stuff like a sharf etc with a team name or ?????

It needs to be a moving target , nothing you start today will last 15 years......think of all the fads that are gone now.....

Maybe someone needs to start a "remember when this business was hot" thread

[jaideeguy]

Start an English [or Thai] language school for all the Chinese on the way here..........or a Chinese language school for Thais and falangs??

[BKKdreaming]

just had Bratwurst with with German mustand and Pommes ( French fries-Chips) with Tzaziki , just like you would have at a German lunch stand

start one in a tourist area with Cute Thai girls in Lederhosen and large mugs of beer !

Maybe get some currywurst too

Now back to the Super Bowl !

[crazykopite]

A mate of mine has 16 cars and 10 bikes he has not looked back since starting up a year ago he started out with 2 jeeps he runs it from his rented home

[Beetlejuice]

Chiang Mai (and Thailand in general) is a much better place to spend money than to make it.

If you're only breaking even in 15-20 years like you mention in your post then really just put that money in a bank or something else with a predictable return, and you'll do a lot better.

The only reason to actually do it would be to keep you or the Mrs. entertained during the day, without any specific goal or need of making money, and as long as it loses money less than the cost of playing golf or drinking all day then you can consider that coming out on top. But even then, yet another coffee shop? (Not to mention that you rule out restaurants, but then specifically include bakeries and noodle shops..)

Anyway, if this was easy to answer then people would be doing it themselves. Running a business is an incredible effort and investment of your time. There are no easy businesses providing a reliable return for not too much work. (And believe me, I really wish this weren't so.)

Agreed.

Living in Thailand for Westerners is more about bringing in money from abroad and spending it rather than making money here. This is really what the Thai authorities prefer and why the retirees are the most favoured by Immigration.

There are too many hurdles in the way including the foreigner prohibited professions acts. I don`t know of any farangs that have legally archived any successful businesses in Thailand without first plying lots of investment and money into it first.

For farangs Thailand is not the land of opportunity and even for those who have lots of money to invest in some sort of business, they are still taking a huge gamble.

I would not recommend any farangs to consider starting a business in Thailand.

[AngelsLariat]

If, as you say "I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!", then why not buy an annuity instead of buying a business?

[recycler]

If you work in it yourself you would need a workpermit and a minimum income of 50,000 Baht a month from it to be within the requirements of a workpermit. Add the high cost of starting and running a business here legally and you'll need a much higher gain on it than 30,000 Baht.

Remember most people come to Thailand to spend money, the whole country is geared up to help you with this. Making money is a whole different ball game and you'll find it very difficult!