Pheu Thai may misunderstand EC rules: EC

[ggold]

I believe this headline is wrong: to me it appears that the EC does not understand its role in facilitating independent elections on behalf of the people , WITHOUT FEAR or FAVOUR.

wow you have studied the Thai constitution and you are an expert of what should can and can not be done here

we are so lucky to have you in Thailand

I will enjoy seeing you on the front page of every Major Thai newspaper tomorrow

Western man solves the Election problem

You would not be lieing to us would you ????

His one sided red view as he works among only their perspective in his daily work studying economic disparity. That is not the only side of the coin. Don't forget the rural poor shafted by PTP and who have awoken to say no more, especially after the rice scheme scam.

Care to explain then why in rural Thailand, more people have voted for Puea Thai on Sunday than in the last election? Those few Democrat-paid farmers blocking the highways are not the majority of rural farmers. Most of them know exactly what is going on politically and are not fooled by Suthep.

According to the BPost the turn out for yesterdays elections was lower than the last elections in the north and north east, they are also reporting that the number of no votes is more than the number of votes for any of the parties that stood in this election.

So your rush to claim PTP the winners is premature to say the least.

[downunderontop]

The EC surely not support the PDRC, if so they had cancelled the election after the "State of emergency", because since this point, partys not allowed to campaigning. They only look for self defence, and the law is not a bamboo you can bend like you want. Now I waiting for someone who declares the caretaker Government for failed, until it not able to hold lawful elections in the time limit. Look like they all have fear to defend the constitution...

Have you tried to bend bamboo

[Crushdepth]

I believe this headline is wrong: to me it appears that the EC does not understand its role in facilitating independent elections on behalf of the people , WITHOUT FEAR or FAVOUR.

The EC has repeatedly advised the government - as is their duty - that the elections cannot be held while the protests are disrupting them. They were 100% right, and now they advising that this is still the case.

Sorting out the mess and creating an environment in which an election can be held is the government's problem, not the EC's.

If you can think of a way that the EC can hold elections meeting all the legal requirements under the circumstances I would like to hear it.

[JoeLing]

Finally, they found a genius! At least a way in the right direction.
"Misunderstood" is already better then don't understand anything.

[NCFC]

It has continuously stated all thru this article about holding a/an election. But this next time would not be a election. It would be continuing and completing an old election. So none if this should be applicable to this situation. Also, thai election laws said that an election must be held and completed on the SAME DAY.

So who is misinterpreting or changing these laws ti suit their needs?

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are.

Do research before you post.

Article 108 of the constitution does not state what you claim.

[Puccini]

The way I see it, EC Commissioner Somchai Srisuthiyarkorn does not know what he is talking about.

He referred to an electoral law which stipulates that the EC could postpone an election for seven days in a constituency that is interrupted by chaos or depends on situation.

To begin with, he refers to "an electoral law" without mentioning the name of the law, which means he has no idea what law this is. I can tell him: it is the Organic Act on election of members of the house of representatives and installation of senators B.E. 2550.

This law does not say that the EC could "postpone an election for seven days in a constituency that is interrupted by chaos or depends on situation." This is what the law says:

Section 78 In the case where the polling at any polling station could not be made

because of the riot, flood, fire, force majeure or another case of necessity, if such event has

occurred prior to the election day, the Committee of polling station shall determine a new

polling place where the voters shall be able to cast a vote conveniently. If the new polling

place cannot be determined, the Committee of polling station shall announce the cancellation

of vote-casting in such station and shall forthwith report such incident to the Election

Commission.

In the case where an incident under paragraph one occurs on the election day, the

Committee of constituency or the Committee of polling station shall announce the

cancellation of the vote-casting in such station and report such incident to the Election

Commission urgently.The Election Commission shall forthwith determine a new polling day of such polling

station or decide differently in accordance with the rules and procedure prescribed by the

Election Commission.

In carrying out the action under paragraph three, if the Election Commission is of the

opinion that it cannot act in such a way to comply with the provisions of Section 8, it shall

provide a new vote-casting for such polling station as appropriate without having to conform

to the time limit as prescribed in paragraph three.

Get hold of the original Thai text of this law, EC Commissioner Somchai, and have somebody read and explain Section 78 to you. There is nothing about "seven days" there, but "The Election Commission shall forthwith determine a new polling day of such polling station or decide differently in accordance with the rules and procedure prescribed by the Election Commission."

[SamMunich]

Care to explain then why in rural Thailand, more people have voted for Puea Thai on Sunday than in the last election? Those few Democrat-paid farmers blocking the highways are not the majority of rural farmers. Most of them know exactly what is going on politically and are not fooled by Suthep.

Congratulations, Shannon, you know more than even the EC, who was organizing and tallying the election plus the results.

So please give me the exact figures of the "no-vote" and the additional (versus the previous election) abstention, separated by the 5 regions.

And how did the farmers in Pitsanoluke vote, who were forced by red shirts to dismantle their protest on Phaholyotin Road?

[Puccini]

...

Have to wait for the courts. I cannot see that the constitution says what to do directly if something stops election in a limited number of provinces. It looks like the rules it lays out only apply when 95% or more constituencies are filled. My interpretation is that a new election is their only legal option. This time they need to make sure the polls are open for voting and that there are candidates registered in each constituency. My personal opinion is that this is the best way forward. Of course my interpretation of things is worth little as I am neither Thai nor a legal expert. If you have some better detail to contribute I'd love to hear it.

No need to wait for any court. The constitution says this:

Section 138. There shall be the following Organic Acts:

(1) Organic Act on the Election of Members of the House

of Representatives and the Acquisition of Senators;

The Organic Act says what I posted earlier here in this topic: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/701656-pheu-thai-may-misunderstand-ec-rules-ec/page-3#entry7389355

[Ulic]

Who knows who's interpretation of the rules is correct. That is the way the EC interprets the the seven day rule.

It does not necessarily mean they are right. After all this is the same group of incompetent buffoons who were

unable to to organize a safe venues for candidates to register, could not get ballots to poling stations on time

and closed poling stations on election day because "peaceful protesters" would not allow the public to vote.

These guys were either grossly incompetent or on Suthep's payroll. Either way the bums are no better than

Thaksin, or Suthep and should be fired.

[Puccini]

Who knows who's interpretation of the rules is correct. That is the way the EC interprets the the seven day rule.

It does not necessarily mean they are right. After all this is the same group of incompetent buffoons who were

unable to to organize a safe venues for candidates to register, could not get ballots to poling stations on time

and closed poling stations on election day because "peaceful protesters" would not allow the public to vote.

These guys were either grossly incompetent or on Suthep's payroll. Either way the bums are no better than

Thaksin, or Suthep and should be fired.

What "seven day rule" is there to interpret?

[zydeco]

Rules don't mean squat in this country. I have worked for a Thai government entity. And I can tell you of three separate times that I made an application for funding that EXACTLY followed their printed "rules." And three times I was told that I had "misunderstood" their rules. And they then immediately went back and rewrote those rules to fit what they were telling me. That's the way things work around here. Nothing means anything and anything means whatever the corrupt desk jockey shuffling papers means it is. The word of Thai officialdom is literally worth less than the paper it is written on. So, why does anyone think that Thai politics will be any less "flexible" in it treatment of rules. Sorry, PTP, your goose is cooked. Except in this case, deservedly so.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post about THC, and a flame.

[samuidave]

The EC surely not support the PDRC, if so they had cancelled the election after the "State of emergency", because since this point, partys not allowed to campaigning. They only look for self defence, and the law is not a bamboo you can bend like you want. Now I waiting for someone who declares the caretaker Government for failed, until it not able to hold lawful elections in the time limit. Look like they all have fear to defend the constitution...

Many members have been posting the Yingluck has out smarted the democrats and yesterday won the election

Trouble is Yingluck is nothing but a pawn with higher players in charge of this game of chess

Demoncrats have been sacrificing pawn from the start to lead Yingluck into making mistakes

And she has kept every que and just about drowned her self as she has little experience in real polotics

The demoncreats have let her become self confident

Now its time for the Courts

and PTP final days

Check Mate in the courts

Your picture shows Yingluck's master, but I can't see Suthep's master. Who is it?

An old man finding some principles.

[Robby nz]

I believe this headline is wrong: to me it appears that the EC does not understand its role in facilitating independent elections on behalf of the people , WITHOUT FEAR or FAVOUR.

wow you have studied the Thai constitution and you are an expert of what should can and can not be done here

we are so lucky to have you in Thailand

I will enjoy seeing you on the front page of every Major Thai newspaper tomorrow

Western man solves the Election problem

You would not be lieing to us would you ????

His one sided red view as he works among only their perspective in his daily work studying economic disparity. That is not the only side of the coin. Don't forget the rural poor shafted by PTP and who have awoken to say no more, especially after the rice scheme scam.

Care to explain then why in rural Thailand, more people have voted for Puea Thai on Sunday than in the last election? Those few Democrat-paid farmers blocking the highways are not the majority of rural farmers. Most of them know exactly what is going on politically and are not fooled by Suthep.

Don't know who or where you are but I very much doubt you have ever been near rural Thailand.

I live in a rural area and the wife has been helping the protesting farmers with food and water and I can tell you that they are not paid by anyone to protest.

They are however being intimidated by the reds and the police.

When you post proof of your statement that the farmers are being paid by the Dems to protest, and block the roads then you might make the rest of your posts believable, until then I will take them as just part of the same pack of lies.

[rubl]

""In case of advance voting, the legal team of the EC confirmed that the cartaker government needs a new decree to set a new date. It could not do by the EC declaration," he said."

Well, that's a pity. We all know how reluctant the caretaking Yingluck government is in issuing royal decree. This needs time, much thoughts, obfuscation, etc. BTW what is the status of the 'caretaking government' with these elections so successfully held?

[geriatrickid]

There are now sufficient EC personnel and police officers available to ensure that elections can be carried out at the polls that were disrupted.

One of the advantages of the election going off without a hitch at a majority of polling stations is that it means that the focus can be placed on those polls where voters' right to vote was blocked. If the EC still feels it has inadequate numbers of officials to run the vote then they can do it over 7 days @ 10 polls per day. With a few hundred police officers and the EC officials deployed at the 10 stations, they can get the job done. All they have to do is to carry out their duties. The EC has come up with excuse after excuse this election, showing itself to be inept and derelict.

The sooner the voting is undertaken, the faster this will be dealt with. It seems the EC wants to drag this out as long as possible.

I believe the royal decree for the election does not permit multiple days.

I also believe that caretaker government spokesman, Chalerm, has fallen foul of the law by announcing the result.

Election binned

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wishful thinking.

A Royal decree is merely a legal formality that fixed the legal official date of the election. It did not change the Act governing the holding of the election. The Act requires a decree in order to hold an election. The Act also sets out the law in respect to advance polls and alternative voting days in the event of catastrophe, force majeure, civil commotion etc. In case you missed it, not even the opponents of the election are using your argument.

As for Chalerm and his pronouncements, as he has no authority in respect to the election results, and does not speak on behalf of the EC. Whatever he says about the election results have no legal standing. The only results that have official standing, as far as the elections go, are those results released by the EC

Your argument(s) are binned.

[Dogmatix]

they understand only what they want to....amazing stupidity..you would think they would ask before opening their mouths,

And if they don't like a ruling they will say they don't recognise the court or body that made it, e.g. the Constitutional Court which they now don't recognise, so Thaksin's assets concealment case should be re-tried by court they recognise.

[kikoman]

Again What did you-all not understand about,last Sundays election?

The "Protesters"stated they would not allow the nation to vote, They would shut down the polls completely.

PTP position was quite plain, as stated by Yingluck S. if you do not want the Shinowatra's in office, Express your will by voting in the Election.

The election took place, in the procedure described in the constitution. 89% of polling places were open vs 10.90 % that were shut down or failed to open. The issue was never how were they going to vote, what ever the majority decided We would be required to live with! (We as Farangs do not have any say except on this forum)

PTP won, as more eligible voters voted then those that failed to vote.and the election when handled smoothly on election day.

Now what part of the Protesters lost,"because they failed to stop the election" Do you not understand!

Accept that fact and go on to your plan Z.

FYI, definition of the word "Forthwith" Immediately, promptly, without delay, directly, Within a reasonable time under the circumstances of the case!

The Free Dictionary...

Cheers

[Gweiloman]

There are now sufficient EC personnel and police officers available to ensure that elections can be carried out at the polls that were disrupted.

One of the advantages of the election going off without a hitch at a majority of polling stations is that it means that the focus can be placed on those polls where voters' right to vote was blocked. If the EC still feels it has inadequate numbers of officials to run the vote then they can do it over 7 days @ 10 polls per day. With a few hundred police officers and the EC officials deployed at the 10 stations, they can get the job done. All they have to do is to carry out their duties. The EC has come up with excuse after excuse this election, showing itself to be inept and derelict.

The sooner the voting is undertaken, the faster this will be dealt with. It seems the EC wants to drag this out as long as possible.

I believe the royal decree for the election does not permit multiple days.

I also believe that caretaker government spokesman, Chalerm, has fallen foul of the law by announcing the result.

Election binned

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wishful thinking.

A Royal decree is merely a legal formality that fixed the legal official date of the election. It did not change the Act governing the holding of the election. The Act requires a decree in order to hold an election. The Act also sets out the law in respect to advance polls and alternative voting days in the event of catastrophe, force majeure, civil commotion etc. In case you missed it, not even the opponents of the election are using your argument.

As for Chalerm and his pronouncements, as he has no authority in respect to the election results, and does not speak on behalf of the EC. Whatever he says about the election results have no legal standing. The only results that have official standing, as far as the elections go, are those results released by the EC

Your argument(s) are binned.

Ouch, that's indeed very assertive indeed as mentioned by another poster. I sense that, like me, you are getting bored of some posters who spout off without doing some reading (and digesting its contents first).

FWIW, I agree 100% with your views. My only question is whether the EC's pronouncement that individual districts may announce the results fully legal, or whether its a trap door towards annulling the election results.

[ggold]

Didn't the EC say that the polling stations could release the number of votes etc, but not allowed to announce who got how many votes until all districts had voted. The EC would only accept those votes at that stage and announce the winner!

[Varangkul]

Are these elections already about to be null and void?

The endorsement of the Royal Decree published in the Royal Gazette on the 9th December granted that the election must be held within 45 to 60 days of said publishing within the Royal Gazette. The 60 days is up this Friday the 7th February and still no valid election has occurred.

Nonsense. By any reasonable definition these elections results are valid. Every effort has been made to stop them. The forces of darkness have failed. The rest of the world has been applauding the efforts of this government to arrange the elections, deal with the protesters and keep peace and order. By and large, they have done that very well. Is some bureaucrat now going to try to overturn that good work? I don't think so. Thailand's credibility would be shot were that to happen

Fort "Rest of the worlds ." read, "The rests of there world's governments". Not quite the same

[Richard W]

Now what part of the Protesters lost,"because they failed to stop the election" Do you not understand!

If they have prevented enough seats being filled, they have won that campaign.

[casualbiker]

There are now sufficient EC personnel and police officers available to ensure that elections can be carried out at the polls that were disrupted.

One of the advantages of the election going off without a hitch at a majority of polling stations is that it means that the focus can be placed on those polls where voters' right to vote was blocked. If the EC still feels it has inadequate numbers of officials to run the vote then they can do it over 7 days @ 10 polls per day. With a few hundred police officers and the EC officials deployed at the 10 stations, they can get the job done. All they have to do is to carry out their duties. The EC has come up with excuse after excuse this election, showing itself to be inept and derelict.

The sooner the voting is undertaken, the faster this will be dealt with. It seems the EC wants to drag this out as long as possible.

I believe the royal decree for the election does not permit multiple days.

I also believe that caretaker government spokesman, Chalerm, has fallen foul of the law by announcing the result.

Election binned

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wishful thinking.

A Royal decree is merely a legal formality that fixed the legal official date of the election. It did not change the Act governing the holding of the election. The Act requires a decree in order to hold an election. The Act also sets out the law in respect to advance polls and alternative voting days in the event of catastrophe, force majeure, civil commotion etc. In case you missed it, not even the opponents of the election are using your argument.

As for Chalerm and his pronouncements, as he has no authority in respect to the election results, and does not speak on behalf of the EC. Whatever he says about the election results have no legal standing. The only results that have official standing, as far as the elections go, are those results released by the EC

Your argument(s) are binned.

the "ACT" also states that the national election be drawn in all constituencies on the same day. That was KNOWN to be impossible for many constituencies before the election, therefor not in appliance of the "ACT"

[Puccini]

the "ACT" also states that the national election be drawn in all constituencies on the same day. That was KNOWN to be impossible for many constituencies before the election, therefor not in appliance of the "ACT"

I am genuinely interested in this subject and would be grateful if you or anyone else kindly indicated in what section of the Organic Act on election of members of the house of representatives and installation of senators I can find this, as I have searched for it in vain.

[whybother]

Again What did you-all not understand about,last Sundays election?

The "Protesters"stated they would not allow the nation to vote, They would shut down the polls completely.

PTP position was quite plain, as stated by Yingluck S. if you do not want the Shinowatra's in office, Express your will by voting in the Election.

The election took place, in the procedure described in the constitution. 89% of polling places were open vs 10.90 % that were shut down or failed to open. The issue was never how were they going to vote, what ever the majority decided We would be required to live with! (We as Farangs do not have any say except on this forum)

PTP won, as more eligible voters voted then those that failed to vote.and the election when handled smoothly on election day.

Now what part of the Protesters lost,"because they failed to stop the election" Do you not understand!

Accept that fact and go on to your plan Z.

FYI, definition of the word "Forthwith" Immediately, promptly, without delay, directly, Within a reasonable time under the circumstances of the case!

The Free Dictionary...

Cheers

Given that there was a voter turnout of only 45%, it seems that LESS eligible voters voted than those that failed to vote. Does that mean PTP lost?

[IAMSOBAD]

Like a dog chasing its tail...

Edited February 3, 2014 by IAMSOBAD

[whybother]

the "ACT" also states that the national election be drawn in all constituencies on the same day. That was KNOWN to be impossible for many constituencies before the election, therefor not in appliance of the "ACT"

I am genuinely interested in this subject and would be grateful if you or anyone else kindly indicated in what section of the Organic Act on election of members of the house of representatives and installation of senators I can find this, as I have searched for it in vain.

Someone pointed out earlier that the election had to be scheduled in all constituencies on the same day, which in this case was Feb 2.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[casualbiker]

the "ACT" also states that the national election be drawn in all constituencies on the same day. That was KNOWN to be impossible for many constituencies before the election, therefor not in appliance of the "ACT"

I am genuinely interested in this subject and would be grateful if you or anyone else kindly indicated in what section of the Organic Act on election of members of the house of representatives and installation of senators I can find this, as I have searched for it in vain.

I presume this section:

"“election day” means the day designated as the day of election as prescribed by the

Royal Decree on the Election of Members of the House of Representatives or Senators, as the

case may be;"

but that can be covered by this section slightly:

" Section 78 In the case where the polling at any polling station could not be made

because of the riot, flood, fire, force majeure or another case of necessity, if such event has

occurred prior to the election day, the Committee of polling station shall determine a new

polling place where the voters shall be able to cast a vote conveniently. If the new polling

place cannot be determined, the Committee of polling station shall announce the cancellation

of vote-casting in such station and shall forthwith report such incident to the Election

Commission."

BUT it does not say what can be done! So i can only presume to the EC's consderation.

"MUTATIS MUTANDIS. The necessary changes. This is a phrase of frequent practical occurrence, meaning that matters or things are generally the same, but to be altered, when necessary, as to names, offices, and the like."

puccini. thanks for posting that link. I do note that it is an unofficial translation. I hope some context of words is not missing.

my original statement was from EC statements ( i think, its been a long few weeks)

Edited February 3, 2014 by casualbiker

[Puccini]

Someone pointed out earlier that the election had to be scheduled in all constituencies on the same day, which in this case was Feb 2.

But what does the Organic Act on election of members of the house of representatives and installation of senators say? Does not Section 78 allow for the possibility that the election is valid even if in some constituencies balloting could not take place, on condition, of course, that in these circumstances the EC carries out its duty to set a new voting date promptly for these constituencies?