Farmers close Bangkok-South road to demand payment for rice

[ggold]

Thanks for the constructive reply.

Yes, if I were the bank's CEO, I would also think long and hard about lending any money to a caretaker govt, especially in light of the current situation.

Govt got themselves into this mess - agreed

Rice scheme should be scrapped - agreed

End of PTP - maybe, maybe not

BUT, a solution has to be found. And Suthep (propaganda or not) is becoming part of the problem. Instead of the incessant attacks on YL, maybe he should maybe focus some thought towards solving one of many huge problems facing the country - how and when to pay the rice farmers - rather than blatantly be seen to blocking a solution.

Can't you accept that the government have lied about the rice scheme, they have not sold any rice on a government 2 government basis as they have claimed! they paid too much for the rice, they could sell it but not at a price that recovers what they paid. It is quit possible that the old stocks are now beginning to rot, so it may be that they can't even sell that at a give away price!

So how can anyone lend them money thinking it will be paid back! that is where the 2 trillion infrastructure plan came in, to cover the loses from the rice scam!

To find a solution you have to admit the problem first, before a solution can be applied or all you do is continue the lie! In other words you don't throw good money at a bad money trying to save something not worth the paper it was printed on!

We are getting away from the original topic but I am honour bound to respond to valid points.

Has the govt lied about the G2G sales? I do not know, but then, neither do you for a fact. At this point in time, no one can prove this conclusively.

They paid too much for the rice - yes, they made some very poor financial and fiscal decisions, overestimating their influence over the world market. Some very clever people (including Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson) have also made some bad business decisions.

Lending money, being paid back - we are not talking about individual, person to person loans here. Most countries operate a trade deficit. Loans are not paid back in the lifetimes of the respective presidents / prime ministers. Think of it like a revolving loan without a maturity period. Also, loans, regardless of purpose, are used to pay whatever is needed to be paid. Do you think that your road tax only goes to pay for road maintenance?

A solution has to be found. There is no escaping that. Everything else is just beating about the bush.

Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson aren't a political party! they answer to their shareholders who if not satisfied can vote them out of the company. Actually if governments issue bonds for national projects, there is a maturity date when those bonds must be bought back! Though they can issue further bonds at that time as well in that regard yes they appear to be revolving loans.

As for the purpose of those loans, I would suggest that the ministry responsible would have done proper due diligence to make sure everything added up and that the scheme was workable. It's called transparency, it lets investors know if the bonds are worth buying!

quite what road tax has to do with this is, well side tracking from the issue as is your comment about Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson?

Anyway. You now have a situation where the cat is out of the bag, and you expect the banks to loan money for a bankrupt scheme where the only way the government (this one or the next) can pay back the money it to borrow more money. So when do they actually pay it off? in five ten or fifty years?

But hey the real purpose isn't important just as long as we can keep revolving the loan maybe we can hide it for 100 years before anyone notices!

And yes the G2G sales are a lie, it is one of the the issues that is before the courts in relation to the rice scam.

finally, A solution has to be found. There is no escaping that. Everything else is just beating about the bush.

Your in the wrong place if your looking for a solution! and all you seem to do is knock other peoples views without actually coming up with any solutions, and I'm guessing you might be Thai?

Sorry to Thai people if your not!

Edited February 3, 2014 by ggold

[samuidave]

I think Thaksin is smiling quite openly these days - the rice fiasco is his baby and is all part of his major plan to get even. In other words if he can't come home then he will cripple the country and bring it to its knees. Not doing too bad a job of it I'd say.

Much like the terrorist tactics of Bin Laden - destroy America financially from within. And it has worked brilliantly.

[samuidave]

 

If her ladyship had not acted in such haste in calling an election. her administration would have realised they needed to provide for the farmers, by whatever means were possible, which they were prevented from doing once the Royal decree had been issued.

 

Seems like there was a serious lack of coordination within the government. A cabinet resolution to approve an emergency increase to the budget before Yingluck dissolved parliament would have fixed this. There also seems to have been a lack of communication between the Finance and Commerce Ministries. Finance was under the illusion that Commerce was going to transfer significant cash flows from the large two government to government rice sales to China in time to pay some of what they owed to farmers. Commerce was coy about disclosing that the sales had never taken place.

Before the dissolution of parliament Finance had a debt auction blow up in its face where it raised only about half of a cB50bn auction. So Kittirat already knew there was a shortfall, even if the Commerce Ministry had delivered. Basically a complete b*uggers' muddle.

Don't be so naive. The debt has been due for nearly six months. There was never any intention to honor it. It was a money grab, pure and simple, with the fallacious hope they could monopolize the domestic market and sway the international market all to their favor. A total cock up is what it is called. But these things happen when those running government are filled with hubris.

[casualbiker]

As far as i'm aware the rice pledging scheme has already been cancelled:

"Thailand's National Rice Policy Committee, headed by the caretaker Prime Minister, has decided not to extend the government rice mortgage program, which is due to expire at the end of February 2014, according to the Thai Public Broadcasting Service. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/rice-news/thailand-national-rice-policy-committee-terminates-rice-mortgage-program#sthash.TmTqRu3v.dpuf"

​As for the loans. Some pro government supporters are suggesting that the government have the money to pay the farmers BUT can't access it due to caretaker mode. If that were true WHY were the proposed commercial bank loans for 15 years???

[samuidave]

Don't the farmers realise that the govt cannot pay them now, in part because of the protests going on in Bkk, in part because they do not have the authority as they are only a caretaker govt inter alia? Protesting or not, they are not going to get their money any sooner. The best is for them to hope that the current political situation is resolved quickly, a legal govt installed so that the country can resume normal workings.

Khun S, you do realise that the longer this standoff occurs, the longer it will take for your supporters to be paid? Or are you willing to sacrifice them as well?

Don't posters like Gweiloman realise, that they are posting nonsense at best, bloody lies at worst? The farmers are waiting since about five (5) months for their money, the parliament dissolution was about 2 months ago. So by plain mathematics, that translates into 3 month BEFORE the protest/dissolutions the government wasn't paying up.

And if the government hasn't gotten the financial means to hang on for the time until the next government is up and running, then they should not have dissolved parliament in the first place. I guess the PTP folks are second to none, when it comes to corruption but last, when it comes to understand the way how a parliament works. Too bad, that comes back, haunting them...

Which part of my post is a lie?

No doubt you think it is true but it remains an absurd argument. The money was due six months ago. The protests started three. There was no intention of paying, plain and clear.

It's akin to me not paying my rent for three months and then finally showing up at the landlords explaining how the bank was closed and I got stuck in traffic.

It's ridiculous, and it should be an embarrassment.

[samuidave]

OH I thought it was because the banks were worried about the legality of the previous loan auction the caretaker Government held last week? The banks felt the risks were to great financially and politically!

Yes, that is why the first round of the bond auction was unsuccessful.

But do you disagree that Khun S threatened the banks against lending any money to the govt to pay the farmers? The report is on TV - go search for it.

I think it is something that the banks have already decided, that is not to loan the government the money, Even the bank unions have been very loud in their criticism of the government trying to get BAAC to pay out money form it's own reserves! What Suthep has said is just propaganda for his followers.

The government got themselves into this mess, I am sure if they could walk into a bank and take the money they would! Legally they can't borrow any money that any future government may have to take responsibility for.

The rice scheme should be scrapped, the farmers told the truth and when/if a new government is in power they will have to support the farmers till they can get back on their feet.

But that would mean the end of PTP and that is something that must be lingering in the back of PTP minds! Just when do they pack their bags and run off to Dubai?

Thanks for the constructive reply.

Yes, if I were the bank's CEO, I would also think long and hard about lending any money to a caretaker govt, especially in light of the current situation.

Govt got themselves into this mess - agreed

Rice scheme should be scrapped - agreed

End of PTP - maybe, maybe not

BUT, a solution has to be found. And Suthep (propaganda or not) is becoming part of the problem. Instead of the incessant attacks on YL, maybe he should maybe focus some thought towards solving one of many huge problems facing the country - how and when to pay the rice farmers - rather than blatantly be seen to blocking a solution.

The problem is the farmers aren't getting paid. The issue is why? The answer is the crab lady lead regime. And she's where the buck stops domestically

[spidermike007]

You simply cannot run a country and allow your highways to be blocked. Few countries would tolerate this. So, why is this allowed to happen here? I would suggest a 10 year prison term for anyone caught blocking a road, permanent forfeiture of any vehicles used for this purpose, and absolutely massive fines in the hundreds of thousands of baht per individual. This might stop them. There is no deterrent now. Do as you please. No price to be paid for disrupting society. Arrest the culprits. Jail them. Fine them. End of game.

[tingtongteesood]

All silent on the pro-red expat front.....hmmm, interesting.

The caretaker govt is not allowed by law to pay the farmers from the govt coffers. What's so interesting about that? What is more interesting is that the PDRC is ACTIVELY preventing the farmers from being paid by threatening those who might be willing to ease the farmers' plight.

Well this is the point, there is no money in the government coffers because it has wasted so much on the rice scam and the crooks and cronies working for the fugitive in Dubai gave at least 30 billion of it to him ( that has been admitted ) and stole the rest for themselves...The PDRC is doing nothing to prevent payments, the constitution that the government keeps trying to hide behind ( despite previously trying to ignore for the amnesty bullshit bill etc ) says that they can not seek alternative payments whilst caretakers as it will affect whoever is the next government. As soon as there is a government one way or the other they can look for loans to pay the farmers. Again the point is this shouldn't be necessary in the first place if PT had proper fiscal discipline instead of pissing money away on populist policies to make the farmers vote for them and participating in rampant corruption...

Can you reply to any post objectively without mentioning corruption, Dubai etc? It just makes you sound like a raving lunatic, not unlike many of the speakers on stage that I have to endure nightly.

'Just stating the facts maam.' to quote an old tv show. Trying to combat the lies and biased propaganda from the red sheeple.

And I am kind of fed up of enduing your lunatic rants too. Though I must admit today you are talking a lot more sense than usual

[Gweiloman]

Thanks for the constructive reply.

Yes, if I were the bank's CEO, I would also think long and hard about lending any money to a caretaker govt, especially in light of the current situation.

Govt got themselves into this mess - agreed

Rice scheme should be scrapped - agreed

End of PTP - maybe, maybe not

BUT, a solution has to be found. And Suthep (propaganda or not) is becoming part of the problem. Instead of the incessant attacks on YL, maybe he should maybe focus some thought towards solving one of many huge problems facing the country - how and when to pay the rice farmers - rather than blatantly be seen to blocking a solution.

Can't you accept that the government have lied about the rice scheme, they have not sold any rice on a government 2 government basis as they have claimed! they paid too much for the rice, they could sell it but not at a price that recovers what they paid. It is quit possible that the old stocks are now beginning to rot, so it may be that they can't even sell that at a give away price!

So how can anyone lend them money thinking it will be paid back! that is where the 2 trillion infrastructure plan came in, to cover the loses from the rice scam!

To find a solution you have to admit the problem first, before a solution can be applied or all you do is continue the lie! In other words you don't throw good money at a bad money trying to save something not worth the paper it was printed on!

We are getting away from the original topic but I am honour bound to respond to valid points.

Has the govt lied about the G2G sales? I do not know, but then, neither do you for a fact. At this point in time, no one can prove this conclusively.

They paid too much for the rice - yes, they made some very poor financial and fiscal decisions, overestimating their influence over the world market. Some very clever people (including Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson) have also made some bad business decisions.

Lending money, being paid back - we are not talking about individual, person to person loans here. Most countries operate a trade deficit. Loans are not paid back in the lifetimes of the respective presidents / prime ministers. Think of it like a revolving loan without a maturity period. Also, loans, regardless of purpose, are used to pay whatever is needed to be paid. Do you think that your road tax only goes to pay for road maintenance?

A solution has to be found. There is no escaping that. Everything else is just beating about the bush.

Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson aren't a political party! they answer to their shareholders who if not satisfied can vote them out of the company. Actually if governments issue bonds for national projects, there is a maturity date when those bonds must be bought back! Though they can issue further bonds at that time as well in that regard yes they appear to be revolving loans.

As for the purpose of those loans, I would suggest that the ministry responsible would have done proper due diligence to make sure everything added up and that the scheme was workable. It's called transparency, it lets investors know if the bonds are worth buying!

quite what road tax has to do with this is, well side tracking from the issue as is your comment about Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson?

Anyway. You now have a situation where the cat is out of the bag, and you expect the banks to loan money for a bankrupt scheme where the only way the government (this one or the next) can pay back the money it to borrow more money. So when do they actually pay it off? in five ten or fifty years?

But hey the real purpose isn't important just as long as we can keep revolving the loan maybe we can hide it for 100 years before anyone notices!

And yes the G2G sales are a lie, it is one of the the issues that is before the courts in relation to the rice scam.

finally, A solution has to be found. There is no escaping that. Everything else is just beating about the bush.

Your in the wrong place if your looking for a solution! and all you seem to do is knock other peoples views without actually coming up with any solutions, and I'm guessing you might be Thai?

Sorry to Thai people if your not!

The point that I was trying to make when mentioning WB, BG and RB is that even the most astute, ingenious and clever people in the world can and do make mistakes. It does not surprise me at all that the govt, any govt for that matter, in Thailand, do, and will continue to, make mistakes in fiscal and monetary policies, long after you and I have departed from this world. Stakeholderscan kick out CEO's. By the same token, the population, eligible voters, are stakeholders of their country and can exercise the same right - via elections. It's a crying shame that one of the major stakeholders (Dems) decided to roll over and play dead instead.

As to when loans will be paid back, how long do you think it will take the US of A to clear their debts? Not in your lifetime or mine, that's for sure. Govt bonds are typically for 15 - 25 years after which more bonds are issued......

G2G sales - you may be right, or you may be wrong - Billy Joel

I'm in the wrong place looking for a solution? But I was led to believe that TVF has the cleverest people in the kingdom. Please don't dash my dreams so cruelly.

Finally, I'm not Thai. Not sure if Thais are happy or sad about this fact.

[Gweiloman]

Don't the farmers realise that the govt cannot pay them now, in part because of the protests going on in Bkk, in part because they do not have the authority as they are only a caretaker govt inter alia? Protesting or not, they are not going to get their money any sooner. The best is for them to hope that the current political situation is resolved quickly, a legal govt installed so that the country can resume normal workings.

Khun S, you do realise that the longer this standoff occurs, the longer it will take for your supporters to be paid? Or are you willing to sacrifice them as well?

Don't posters like Gweiloman realise, that they are posting nonsense at best, bloody lies at worst? The farmers are waiting since about five (5) months for their money, the parliament dissolution was about 2 months ago. So by plain mathematics, that translates into 3 month BEFORE the protest/dissolutions the government wasn't paying up.

And if the government hasn't gotten the financial means to hang on for the time until the next government is up and running, then they should not have dissolved parliament in the first place. I guess the PTP folks are second to none, when it comes to corruption but last, when it comes to understand the way how a parliament works. Too bad, that comes back, haunting them...

Which part of my post is a lie?

No doubt you think it is true but it remains an absurd argument. The money was due six months ago. The protests started three. There was no intention of paying, plain and clear.

It's akin to me not paying my rent for three months and then finally showing up at the landlords explaining how the bank was closed and I got stuck in traffic.

It's ridiculous, and it should be an embarrassment.

To you, it may be an absurd argument. But the fact remains that the current caretaker govt does not have any legal avenue to pay the farmers. As to whether they have any intention to pay, I put it to you that just because you may not have any intention of repaying a loan does not mean that others don't (operative word here being "intention").

If I hadn't paid my rent for three months, it will be because I didnot have the capacity to pay, not because I didn't want to pay. FWIW, I have paid off all loans that I have ever taken out in my life and am still considered a good paymaster for all my current loans. Probably accounts for why I have never been rejected for any loan applications.

Back on topic - which part of my post is a lie?

[Gweiloman]

Yes, that is why the first round of the bond auction was unsuccessful.

But do you disagree that Khun S threatened the banks against lending any money to the govt to pay the farmers? The report is on TV - go search for it.

I think it is something that the banks have already decided, that is not to loan the government the money, Even the bank unions have been very loud in their criticism of the government trying to get BAAC to pay out money form it's own reserves! What Suthep has said is just propaganda for his followers.

The government got themselves into this mess, I am sure if they could walk into a bank and take the money they would! Legally they can't borrow any money that any future government may have to take responsibility for.

The rice scheme should be scrapped, the farmers told the truth and when/if a new government is in power they will have to support the farmers till they can get back on their feet.

But that would mean the end of PTP and that is something that must be lingering in the back of PTP minds! Just when do they pack their bags and run off to Dubai?

Thanks for the constructive reply.

Yes, if I were the bank's CEO, I would also think long and hard about lending any money to a caretaker govt, especially in light of the current situation.

Govt got themselves into this mess - agreed

Rice scheme should be scrapped - agreed

End of PTP - maybe, maybe not

BUT, a solution has to be found. And Suthep (propaganda or not) is becoming part of the problem. Instead of the incessant attacks on YL, maybe he should maybe focus some thought towards solving one of many huge problems facing the country - how and when to pay the rice farmers - rather than blatantly be seen to blocking a solution.

The problem is the farmers aren't getting paid. The issue is why? The answer is the crab lady lead regime. And she's where the buck stops domestically

Up until now, this has been a constructive thread with arguments and counter arguments. Then comes along your post that resorts to name calling and without any substance worth replying to.

Next.

[Gweiloman]

The caretaker govt is not allowed by law to pay the farmers from the govt coffers. What's so interesting about that? What is more interesting is that the PDRC is ACTIVELY preventing the farmers from being paid by threatening those who might be willing to ease the farmers' plight.

Well this is the point, there is no money in the government coffers because it has wasted so much on the rice scam and the crooks and cronies working for the fugitive in Dubai gave at least 30 billion of it to him ( that has been admitted ) and stole the rest for themselves...The PDRC is doing nothing to prevent payments, the constitution that the government keeps trying to hide behind ( despite previously trying to ignore for the amnesty bullshit bill etc ) says that they can not seek alternative payments whilst caretakers as it will affect whoever is the next government. As soon as there is a government one way or the other they can look for loans to pay the farmers. Again the point is this shouldn't be necessary in the first place if PT had proper fiscal discipline instead of pissing money away on populist policies to make the farmers vote for them and participating in rampant corruption...

Can you reply to any post objectively without mentioning corruption, Dubai etc? It just makes you sound like a raving lunatic, not unlike many of the speakers on stage that I have to endure nightly.

'Just stating the facts maam.' to quote an old tv show. Trying to combat the lies and biased propaganda from the red sheeple.

And I am kind of fed up of enduing your lunatic rants too. Though I must admit today you are talking a lot more sense than usual

Since you regard me as a "sheeple", you won't be bothered by what I think so I would not bother to waste my time to enter into a debate with you.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Gweiloman

[dude123]

You simply cannot run a country and allow your highways to be blocked. Few countries would tolerate this. So, why is this allowed to happen here? I would suggest a 10 year prison term for anyone caught blocking a road, permanent forfeiture of any vehicles used for this purpose, and absolutely massive fines in the hundreds of thousands of baht per individual. This might stop them. There is no deterrent now. Do as you please. No price to be paid for disrupting society. Arrest the culprits. Jail them. Fine them. End of game.

Yes, but if you are a rice farmer that has not been paid for all the hard work, risk losing your farm, your livelyhood and your support for you family, would you maybe block a few roads to get attention? What you say is easy, but walk in their shoes maybe and then things are not as black and white all of a sudden.

[DrDweeb]

Suthep and all the protesters in Bangkok could go home today. The farmers and the Anti-Corruption Commission will accomplish the "de-thaksinization" process that the protesters started with the Amnesty Bill.

Google "A rotten harvest" on Bangkok Post for the latest analysis of the situation.

(If I understand it correctly, it's not allowed to post links to BP)

From the above, they have spend $22 billion on rice. That could be the worlds most expensive experiment, moving the Large Hadron Collider to second place.

With a budget of 7.5 billion euros (approx. $9bn or £6.19bn as of Jun 2010), the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is one of the most expensive scientific instruments[90] ever built.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider)

Words cannot express how hilarious I found your post!

Have an upvote from me!

[DrDweeb]

All silent on the pro-red expat front.....hmmm, interesting.

As a matter of passing curiosity, what is it that makes so many expats that post on TV such "raving red loonies"?

The blind red support, supported (pun intended) by outright fabrication is astounding, and I cannot quite get it to gel with the level of intellect and opinion of the expats and foreigners in my circle of acquaintences.

Clue me in please.

[DrDweeb]

All silent on the pro-red expat front.....hmmm, interesting.

The caretaker govt is not allowed by law to pay the farmers from the govt coffers. What's so interesting about that? What is more interesting is that the PDRC is ACTIVELY preventing the farmers from being paid by threatening those who might be willing to ease the farmers' plight.

That is a patently false post.

Suggesting that the caretaker government is not allowed to pay its debt obligations for contracts entered into is bogus, and the idea that a protest movement could actively prevent the government from executing payment are the words of the deluded. Next you will tell me that the public service is not being paid because the caretaker government cannot write checks any more.

There is a hold up BORROWING money to meet the government obligations. The caretaker government is not able to put the public coffers in more debt (and rightly so).

The inability to indebt the nation is not the same as the government being unwilling to honour its obligations.

The entire financial mess is TS (YS and PTP)s doing and as it all comes crubling down around them, morons like you leap to their defence.

[3NUMBAS]

I encountered this roadblock on the way to Kaeng Krachan on Sunday. A message to these farmers. You get the government you deserve. You've sold your vote for a few hundred Baht to corrupt politicians for decades and now your chickens have come home to roost. They've stolen your rice AND your money. What in Earth did you think would happen?

Som Nam Na!

they needed that 200 bahts as the corrupt BKK elite had been keeping them as poor serfs for ages ,they needed it to buy food ,you have no idea about how desperate some thais are living from hand to mouth day in day out.

no the banks wont lend to pay them but you can be sure they will lend money to their elite cronies to build ever more condos and malls in BKK .

[DrDweeb]

Which part of my post is a lie?

The bold text...

Don't the farmers realise that the govt cannot pay them now, in part because of the protests going on in Bkk, in part because they do not have the authority as they are only a caretaker govt inter alia?

Fixed it for you

Edited February 3, 2014 by Rooo
font

[JRSoul]

The point that I was trying to make when mentioning WB, BG and RB is that even the most astute, ingenious and clever people in the world can and do make mistakes. It does not surprise me at all that the govt, any govt for that matter, in Thailand, do, and will continue to, make mistakes in fiscal and monetary policies, long after you and I have departed from this world. Stakeholderscan kick out CEO's. By the same token, the population, eligible voters, are stakeholders of their country and can exercise the same right - via elections. It's a crying shame that one of the major stakeholders (Dems) decided to roll over and play dead instead.

As to when loans will be paid back, how long do you think it will take the US of A to clear their debts? Not in your lifetime or mine, that's for sure. Govt bonds are typically for 15 - 25 years after which more bonds are issued......

G2G sales - you may be right, or you may be wrong - Billy Joel

I'm in the wrong place looking for a solution? But I was led to believe that TVF has the cleverest people in the kingdom. Please don't dash my dreams so cruelly.

Finally, I'm not Thai. Not sure if Thais are happy or sad about this fact.

Your Billy Joel quote would be better if you extend it a bit further.

"Well, you may be right I may be crazy

But it just might be a lunatic you're looking for"

[DrDweeb]

After 11 years of Thaksin control the young and educated people from Thailand are demanding a change. They refuse to accept that the dictator in Dubai should continue to ruin the country.

The rice farmers always sell their souls to the devil no matter who he is. This time their love for themselves came back to bite them in the arse badly. Now do you see Thaksin sending money to pay them back. the BOT rightly recommended selling rice at a loss to pay the farmers. Do you see the greedy evil people in the government trying to do this. They don't even know where the rice is let alone how much they have. Bloody amazing.

Thaksin is not smart in playing commodities as he imagined he was. He was only successful in businesses where he had paid massive bribes to ensure their was no fair competition. The first rule of this type of speculation is to cut losses as soon as your original strategy is proved wrong before the losses mount. But they are caught like rabbits in the headlights still pretending that their position will be saved by some miracle. In the world of futures you can at least roll over your losing position at a cost but these people are playing on margin with perishable deliverables. Some of the position will end up worthless but that's Ok for them because margin is provided unwittingly by subsistence level farmers.

If there's a god in heaven, these people will surely burn in hell.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

".. in hell"

Historically, quite a number of similar types have discovered that the wrath of the masses can only be sated with blood.

So one suspects that "here on earth" is rather more likely

[DrDweeb]

-- removed quote ---

Can't you accept that the government have lied about the rice scheme, they have not sold any rice on a government 2 government basis as they have claimed! they paid too much for the rice, they could sell it but not at a price that recovers what they paid. It is quit possible that the old stocks are now beginning to rot, so it may be that they can't even sell that at a give away price!

So how can anyone lend them money thinking it will be paid back! that is where the 2 trillion infrastructure plan came in, to cover the loses from the rice scam!

To find a solution you have to admit the problem first, before a solution can be applied or all you do is continue the lie! In other words you don't throw good money at a bad money trying to save something not worth the paper it was printed on!

We are getting away from the original topic but I am honour bound to respond to valid points.

Has the govt lied about the G2G sales? I do not know, but then, neither do you for a fact. At this point in time, no one can prove this conclusively.

They paid too much for the rice - yes, they made some very poor financial and fiscal decisions, overestimating their influence over the world market. Some very clever people (including Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson) have also made some bad business decisions.

Lending money, being paid back - we are not talking about individual, person to person loans here. Most countries operate a trade deficit. Loans are not paid back in the lifetimes of the respective presidents / prime ministers. Think of it like a revolving loan without a maturity period. Also, loans, regardless of purpose, are used to pay whatever is needed to be paid. Do you think that your road tax only goes to pay for road maintenance?

A solution has to be found. There is no escaping that. Everything else is just beating about the bush.

Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson aren't a political party! they answer to their shareholders who if not satisfied can vote them out of the company. Actually if governments issue bonds for national projects, there is a maturity date when those bonds must be bought back! Though they can issue further bonds at that time as well in that regard yes they appear to be revolving loans.

As for the purpose of those loans, I would suggest that the ministry responsible would have done proper due diligence to make sure everything added up and that the scheme was workable. It's called transparency, it lets investors know if the bonds are worth buying!

quite what road tax has to do with this is, well side tracking from the issue as is your comment about Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Richard Branson?

Anyway. You now have a situation where the cat is out of the bag, and you expect the banks to loan money for a bankrupt scheme where the only way the government (this one or the next) can pay back the money it to borrow more money. So when do they actually pay it off? in five ten or fifty years?

But hey the real purpose isn't important just as long as we can keep revolving the loan maybe we can hide it for 100 years before anyone notices!

And yes the G2G sales are a lie, it is one of the the issues that is before the courts in relation to the rice scam.

finally, A solution has to be found. There is no escaping that. Everything else is just beating about the bush.

Your in the wrong place if your looking for a solution! and all you seem to do is knock other peoples views without actually coming up with any solutions, and I'm guessing you might be Thai?

Sorry to Thai people if your not!

The point that I was trying to make when mentioning WB, BG and RB is that even the most astute, ingenious and clever people in the world can and do make mistakes. It does not surprise me at all that the govt, any govt for that matter, in Thailand, do, and will continue to, make mistakes in fiscal and monetary policies, long after you and I have departed from this world. Stakeholderscan kick out CEO's. By the same token, the population, eligible voters, are stakeholders of their country and can exercise the same right - via elections. It's a crying shame that one of the major stakeholders (Dems) decided to roll over and play dead instead.

As to when loans will be paid back, how long do you think it will take the US of A to clear their debts? Not in your lifetime or mine, that's for sure. Govt bonds are typically for 15 - 25 years after which more bonds are issued......

G2G sales - you may be right, or you may be wrong - Billy Joel

I'm in the wrong place looking for a solution? But I was led to believe that TVF has the cleverest people in the kingdom. Please don't dash my dreams so cruelly.

Finally, I'm not Thai. Not sure if Thais are happy or sad about this fact.

It does not matter if Jesus H. Christ made a bad decision. It is irrelevant to the appallingly obvious cash grab that has happenned with the rice pledge schema and the attempts by the puppet and other lapdogs to cover it up. It should be viewed in isolation for what it is - a very severe case of corruption and abuse of power, something the masses tend to get annoyed about when they discover that they have been robbed and are starving. YS and the PTP did not "make a bad decision", that is the most appalling display of an apologist I have seen for a while. What they did, at TS's request, was rape the poor bastards who trusted them (incl. people about whom I personally care).

"Let them eat cake"

At the moment I am tending towards a quiet, bloody purge as the best possible outcome in the short term. YS will rue the day forever that she let her dear old dad half brother convince her to be PM - serves her bloody well right!

I think the aussie phrase is "hangoing's too good for 'em"

[ggold]

The point that I was trying to make when mentioning WB, BG and RB is that even the most astute, ingenious and clever people in the world can and do make mistakes. It does not surprise me at all that the govt, any govt for that matter, in Thailand, do, and will continue to, make mistakes in fiscal and monetary policies, long after you and I have departed from this world. Stakeholderscan kick out CEO's. By the same token, the population, eligible voters, are stakeholders of their country and can exercise the same right - via elections. It's a crying shame that one of the major stakeholders (Dems) decided to roll over and play dead instead.

As to when loans will be paid back, how long do you think it will take the US of A to clear their debts? Not in your lifetime or mine, that's for sure. Govt bonds are typically for 15 - 25 years after which more bonds are issued......

G2G sales - you may be right, or you may be wrong - Billy Joel

I'm in the wrong place looking for a solution? But I was led to believe that TVF has the cleverest people in the kingdom. Please don't dash my dreams so cruelly.

Finally, I'm not Thai. Not sure if Thais are happy or sad about this fact.

I don't see what WB, BG, RB or for that matter the debt of the USA has to do with this topic. As far as the USA goes the corruption that lead to the economic crisis, is not the same as the corruption in Thailand. It wasn't the US government that perpetrated the economic crisis? Anyway it takes it off topic.

RE G2G the proof is in TV if you care to look!

and; you may be right, you may be wrong- but if Thailand were to wait till PTP's term in office was up I fear that there would not be much left of Thailand to save for the future. So how do you stop a government from robbing the nation blind, wait till there is nothing left to rob?

[inkorat]

Don't the farmers realise that the govt cannot pay them now, in part because of the protests going on in Bkk, in part because they do not have the authority as they are only a caretaker govt inter alia? Protesting or not, they are not going to get their money any sooner. The best is for them to hope that the current political situation is resolved quickly, a legal govt installed so that the country can resume normal workings.

Khun S, you do realise that the longer this standoff occurs, the longer it will take for your supporters to be paid? Or are you willing to sacrifice them as well?

Do you people really understand the problem... If they have 500 Billion Baht of rice in the warehouse, just sell some and pay the farmers. The government does not need any authorization from anyone to do this.

The problem is it will then expose their excessive losses in this failed scheme. A lot of the rice is not there, a lot of it is damaged or rotting and all of it is overvalued.

Go have a look yourself, I have and a lot of it is just rotting away and covered over by newer rice to hide the problem.

If the P/T government succeed in getting the additional 130 billion Baht, the taxpayers will then owe 700 Billion to the banks for rice loans. The rice is probably worth less than half of this amount and the tax payers and their children will end up paying this bill. The protestors have a right to expose the corruption and theft that is going on, which effects the farmers and the taxpayers.

[LomSak27]

looks like thos Central province farmers - and Northern and Northeastern crapped out.

Who would have thought. They must be getting thier stipend for this instead of the usual for voting

Go Team Yellow

Fight Team Yellow

Win Team Yellow

[casualbiker]

I encountered this roadblock on the way to Kaeng Krachan on Sunday. A message to these farmers. You get the government you deserve. You've sold your vote for a few hundred Baht to corrupt politicians for decades and now your chickens have come home to roost. They've stolen your rice AND your money. What in Earth did you think would happen?

Som Nam Na!

they needed that 200 bahts as the corrupt BKK elite had been keeping them as poor serfs for ages ,they needed it to buy food ,you have no idea about how desperate some thais are living from hand to mouth day in day out.

no the banks wont lend to pay them but you can be sure they will lend money to their elite cronies to build ever more condos and malls in BKK .

And this rice pledging scheme has done nothing for them other than possibly make it easier finding a farm job.

Bkk elite.... get a new record ...that one's broken.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mikemac]

You simply cannot run a country and allow your highways to be blocked. Few countries would tolerate this. So, why is this allowed to happen here? I would suggest a 10 year prison term for anyone caught blocking a road, permanent forfeiture of any vehicles used for this purpose, and absolutely massive fines in the hundreds of thousands of baht per individual. This might stop them. There is no deterrent now. Do as you please. No price to be paid for disrupting society. Arrest the culprits. Jail them. Fine them. End of game.

Yes, but if you are a rice farmer that has not been paid for all the hard work, risk losing your farm, your livelyhood and your support for you family, would you maybe block a few roads to get attention? What you say is easy, but walk in their shoes maybe and then things are not as black and white all of a sudden.

Well put Dude123, but probably wasted on the poster you replied to.

You simply cannot run a country and allow your highways to be blocked

You simply cannot run a country when the leader of the government is a criminal hiding out in the Middle East. Full stop.

And your plan to hit protesters who dare to voice their opinion with "absolutely massive fines" is interesting, perhaps the monies raised by these fines could be used to pay the farmers who have been ripped off by the Shinawatra family !

But wait, the farmers will not be able to pay the fines because the government has withheld the money owed to them.

................................"I would suggest a 10 year prison term for anyone caught blocking a road, permanent forfeiture of any vehicles used for this purpose, and absolutely massive fines in the hundreds of thousands of baht per individual."................................

Does this also apply to the redshirts who did just that in Bangkok in 2010. If so, they will not be too happy with your point of view.

They believe they are above the law.

[Suriya4]

I encountered this roadblock on the way to Kaeng Krachan on Sunday. A message to these farmers. You get the government you deserve. You've sold your vote for a few hundred Baht to corrupt politicians for decades and now your chickens have come home to roost. They've stolen your rice AND your money. What in Earth did you think would happen?

Som Nam Na!

they needed that 200 bahts as the corrupt BKK elite had been keeping them as poor serfs for ages ,they needed it to buy food ,you have no idea about how desperate some thais are living from hand to mouth day in day out.

no the banks wont lend to pay them but you can be sure they will lend money to their elite cronies to build ever more condos and malls in BKK .

And this rice pledging scheme has done nothing for them other than possibly make it easier finding a farm job.

Bkk elite.... get a new record ...that one's broken.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Bangkok Elite will be very cross with the poor and mostly lowly educated rice farmers, if they are cut off from their weekend condo in Cha-am / Hua Hin.

I am sure that next govt (I am quitte sure Mark will lead), will stop all subsidy to the poor and mostly lowly educated rice farmers.

Then the real Bangkok Shutdown will begins.

[mikemac]

The Bangkok Elite will be very cross with the poor and mostly lowly educated rice farmers, if they are cut off from their weekend condo in Cha-am / Hua Hin.

I am sure that next govt (I am quitte sure Mark will lead), will stop all subsidy to the poor and mostly lowly educated rice farmers.

Then the real Bangkok Shutdown will begins.

A word of advice, change your bait if you are trying to get a bite. The stuff you are using is old, stale and worn out.

[Pakboong]

I am fairly confident that the rice payment scheme, regardless of how it is painted in the news, is a carefully planned scheme to gain the necessary vote for the opposition party. The banks do not answer to government, they answer to the wealthy backers. The BOT is a privately owned central bank that inflates and deflates as it needs to. This was all designed to discredit the current government whether I like the current government or not.

[belg]

and the police, they kept on sleeping or doing their main job : collecting bribes