Krung Thai Bank may help farmers if….

[webfact]

Krung Thai Bank may help farmers if….

BANGKOK: -- The state-owned Krung Thai Bank may participate in the bridging loan auction if there is no law prohibiting the bank from doing just that, Mr Worapak Tunyawong, managing director of the bank, told the media before the meeting of the board Tuesday morning.

However, he assured that the loan issue would not be discussed by the board today. He dismissed a pure speculation that the bank had already approved a loan to fund the government’s troubled rice pledging scheme.

“I would like to assure my staff and our clients in my professional conduct. The executives and the board will not let ourselves being used as a political tool definitely. I am not indebted to anybody. Besides, the bank will not get involved in any project which is tainted with corruption and there is a lot of criticism about that in the rice pledging scheme,” Mr Worapak was quoted to have told the media.

However, he noted that taking into consideration the hardship confronted by farmers today for not receiving their payments from their crops, it was necessary that the bank should offer a helping hand “if the law is made clear that the bank can do that and farmers will be fully paid without the money dropping somewhere, then the bank will consider granting credits but, all in all, the government must quickly find a solution so that it will not be a burden on financial institutions.”

While Mr Worapak was speaking to the media, about 100 bank staff were gathering to wait for him with some of them blew the whistles and others shouted protest against lending to fund the rice pledging scheme.

The managing director then walked right to the protesting staff and assured them that the bank would not do anything which would be damaging to the bank and its depositors.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/krung-thai-bank-may-help-farmers/


-- Thai PBS 2014-02-04

[Suriya4]

Payment to poor rice farmers of N and NE must be stop at all cost.

No reason why the rice farmers cannot sell rice themselves, when everyone in Thailand is eating rice.

Government should be giving help money to oil palm & rubber farmers in the South instead, as they are the one that are in need of help.

Because unlike rice, not everyone in Thailand is eating palm or rubber.

[trogers]

"...if there is no law prohibiting the bank from doing just that"

I will repeat what I had posted before - Why does the govt not ask a ruling from the Constitution Court to make clear whether this act of seeking loans is legitimate or not?

Banks can then act accordingly instead of hesitating.

[mightyatom]

Well that condition would almost certainly not come about.

The scheme is indeed riddled with corruption and the scheme is also under the microscope of the NACC and the courts and charges have already been laid.

The banks should really be asking if any offer will be legally challenged after the money has moved. My belief is that any move to loan the money will have big ramifications that the government has absolutely zero say in the matter.

Protest blockades of banks and petitions to the courts for the government borrowing money which it is not able to do as a caretaker government are just 2 that spring to mind.

I think KTB has no intention of lending the government money and are just trying to show some rhetorical compassion.

[Pib]

So sad that this country is turning into a "Mother, May I?" country in that everyone wants a ruling from the Constitutional Court to cover their ass. Might as well just put the Constitutional Court in charge of running the country and put the rest of the govt into inactive posts (paid of course) since the current govt don't seem to be getting anything done other than making many groups madder than hell.

[thesetat2013]

More than 2 weeks ago it was announced that 8 of 9 districts in the north and northeast had been paid already. Why do you think YL was so confident to step down as PM and hold new elections fast as well as repeatedly pushing away any idea of delaying the elections. She is the savior of the north. Which just happens to be where the most people live. Good tactics. Too bad it had to hurt the farmers from almost everywhere else in thailand

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GentlemanJim]

Krung Thai Bank may help farmers if….

"Gentlemanjim to withdraw substantial deposits in Krung Thai Bank if.... "

"...if there is no law prohibiting the bank from doing just that"

I will repeat what I had posted before - Why does the govt not ask a ruling from the Constitution Court to make clear whether this act of seeking loans is legitimate or not?

Banks can then act accordingly instead of hesitating.

I am unsure a CC ruling is required. The Constitution is quite clear in that the Caretaker Government cannot burden the next Government with debt that was not planned already. A bank loan is a debt and the future Government will have to pay that debt or forfeit whatever is put up as security for the debt by the caretaker Government. It can't be done, plain and simple.

[p_brownstone]

Payment to poor rice farmers of N and NE must be stop at all cost.

No reason why the rice farmers cannot sell rice themselves, when everyone in Thailand is eating rice.

Government should be giving help money to oil palm & rubber farmers in the South instead, as they are the one that are in need of help.

Because unlike rice, not everyone in Thailand is eating palm or rubber.

The farmers cannot sell the rice themselves because they no longer have it in their possession - they gave it to the pledging scheme, trusting that the government would pay them for it but the government did not.

So right now they have no rice and no money.

Patrick

[spirit47]

Better the give loans to the rice farmers in need directly to special conditions until the Shin-clan problem is solved. After reading this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/701931-auditor-general-tells-caretaker-pm-yingluck-to-scrap-rice-pledging-scheme/ it will be a more safe way.

[trogers]

So sad that this country is turning into a "Mother, May I?" country in that everyone wants a ruling from the Constitutional Court to cover their ass. Might as well just put the Constitutional Court in charge of running the country and put the rest of the govt into inactive posts (paid of course) since the current govt don't seem to be getting anything done other than making many groups madder than hell.

100% correct. This govt has been running with "Thaksin, May I?" with a Prime Minister who frequently claims "I don't know".

This is why this country is turning into a "Mother, May I?" and why anti-govt protestors crying for a revamp of the system.

[ggold]

"...if there is no law prohibiting the bank from doing just that"

I will repeat what I had posted before - Why does the govt not ask a ruling from the Constitution Court to make clear whether this act of seeking loans is legitimate or not?

Banks can then act accordingly instead of hesitating.

The EC have told the caretaker government that they cannot borrow any money.

[MaxLee]

Krung Thai Bank may help farmers if….

..... However, he assured that the loan issue would not be discussed by the board today.

.... “I would like to assure my staff and our clients in my professional conduct. The executives and the board will not let ourselves being used as a political tool definitely. I am not indebted to anybody. Besides, the bank will not get involved in any project which is tainted with corruption and there is a lot of criticism about that in the rice pledging scheme,” Mr Worapak was quoted to have told the media.

OF COURSE not, they can't risk to make Pheu Thai and their white liar Finance Ministry to lose face and get threateend by mysterious hired thugs...

Dear KrungThai members and bank account holders,... get your money out, now....

Edited February 4, 2014 by MaxLee

[LuckyLew]

Quick .. take get all your money out of Krung Thai ...

[steveromagnino]

Payment to poor rice farmers of N and NE must be stop at all cost.

No reason why the rice farmers cannot sell rice themselves, when everyone in Thailand is eating rice.

Government should be giving help money to oil palm & rubber farmers in the South instead, as they are the one that are in need of help.

Because unlike rice, not everyone in Thailand is eating palm or rubber.

The farmers cannot sell the rice themselves because they no longer have it in their possession - they gave it to the pledging scheme, trusting that the government would pay them for it but the government did not.

So right now they have no rice and no money.

Patrick

Exactly. And the farmers have paid all their costs (seed, harvesting, fertiliser etc etc). They are the ones who are stuck here.

The farmers who did not sell it to the govt have been forced to sell it to the highest bidders, who are offering about 5,500b from memory; something like 30% lower than the market price simply because the farmers have basically no choice, so in fact the farmers are either stuck owed money by the govt who may never pay them, or if they still have some rice on hand, stuck selling at a loss on the open market which has been massively damaged by the price distortions of the pledging scheme so are being screwed.

Also, there are some questions as to whether the rice actually can even be returned (some sources inside the scheme believe that the same single sack of rice has been used more than once for pledging - it was transferred to someone else who then also pledged the same physical rice - which means that even were they to try to return the rice, there might be 2-3 owners of each ton of rice pledged - the real one plus a few fake ones created by sources close to the government - and it will be nearly impossible to determine who actually owns the rice without also revealing the corruption in the scheme).

This is why the price floor system of the Dems was so much healthier and sustainable.

Rice pledging was never a crop subsidy with a budget for subsidies as occurs elsewhere in the world, it is a monopsony with the govt buying all the rice at an inflated price with an aim to sell it at an inflated price which is obviously never going to happen.

So what happens is the govt have alledgedly done fake deals (where they sell 10,000 tons on paper but 'accidentally' deliver 25,000 tons thus ensuring the rice traders will pay the higher price per ton and it all looks ok on paper). the problem is that the budget constraint for funding the scheme is capped at a level too low to run the scheme longterm as it's like a Ponzi scheme as the few deals done are in reality for more rice than what the contract says, so the rice stockpile is slowly less and less than what it should be on paper. In addition, you have pledging of the rice more than once that actually doesn't exist at all. You have far rice pledged from Burma/Laos/Cambodia, and crop yields higher than planned. So any physical investigation will reveal the true losses - which is why the govt has been so strongly against anyone actually investigating the scheme.

So now it's run out of money, the govt could either be honest and admit that there are no real deals, or reveal the actual corruption in the scheme, to increase the budget to fund it - until now the government has mostly tried to lie its way out (that there are deals, that the scheme is solvent) but they cannot fake the actual money needed to pay out. So hence they have blamed it all on the protests.

[GeorgeO]

Well that condition would almost certainly not come about.

The scheme is indeed riddled with corruption and the scheme is also under the microscope of the NACC and the courts and charges have already been laid.

The banks should really be asking if any offer will be legally challenged after the money has moved. My belief is that any move to loan the money will have big ramifications that the government has absolutely zero say in the matter.

Protest blockades of banks and petitions to the courts for the government borrowing money which it is not able to do as a caretaker government are just 2 that spring to mind.

I think KTB has no intention of lending the government money and are just trying to show some rhetorical compassion.

I think the main point to consider is ... whose money does the bank hold?

I think it's safe to say that the majority of the bank's holdings are more likely to belong to hi-so Thais (potentially Democrat voters or even anti-government protesters) than factory workers and up-country farmers, so there's likely to be enormous opposition to any plan to use the money to prop up the government.

If there is any hint of a deal being made, I would expect to see a run on the bank as depositors move quickly to place their cash elsewhere. That could, quite literally, lead to the collapse of the bank... and bring about a sudden end to the caretaker government's attempts to raise cash from other banks, so they would still be faced with the same problem.

It's time they stood down completely so that auditors can move in and assess exactly what the real devastation has been as a result of the PTP's tenure. At least, if they did capitulate, a new caretaker administration could agree to use some of the country's reserves as a stop-gap measure to ensure that farmers receive what they are due.

In the end, they're going to have to set up extradition treaties to get all the fleeing PTP cabinet members back into Thailand so that they can sequester their ill-gotten gains to replace the money temporarily taken from the country's reserves.

[RubbaJohnny]

Perhaps a poor translation but never read anything more likely to start a run on KT.

My deposits would hardly pay one farmer but major investors and depositors,employees should be worried.Like Intesa San PAolo ,Northern Rock,Monte di Peschi,Lehamans everyone thinks their fine until their not.In the background Chinese shadow banks are on the threshold of volcanic risks,Fed tapering and a local economy bruised by the protests.

While good will and debt forgiveness is fine for governements NGOs and charities losing clients money in a competitive market will surely bury the bank.

I'd guess the local branches of big Int firms Citibank,OBC, HSBC Barclays will be immune from a bail-in as they would not be foolish enough to get involved in money "dropping" and having to work with any future regime and hence be utterly diplomatic.

Additionally I doubt even the dumbest finance minister would really aim to upset them Saxona style.Thai bankers are pretty conservative since the big KK heist.

Tragically endless impasse is going to make paying the pledges difficult evn with no disagreements.

Scenario one present regime gets a quorum passes a new budget could well be Songkran

Or election is anulled by courts or elcted members banned etc requiring another general election again 60 days after such decisions which will likely be appealed.

I see ths dragging into May when if in power Yinglucks amnesty bill 'could' be resurrected legally.

Having lost one tourist season and a lot of goodwill the people and economy are going to need a long time to regain to status quo ante.

In meantime rice rots,farmers fume and neighbouring competitors benefit.

Edited February 4, 2014 by RubbaJohnny

[icommunity]

So far, EC, and other regulating bodies made their decisions based on political arguments rather than social needs. Banks and businesses that operates to meet the social needs will be respected and supported by people. These entities should fulfill their social responsibilities because the people are stake holders as consumers.

Under the present circumstances, legal impediments are politically motivated rather than legal. In a legal dispute such as the circumstances we are in, evidence on social arguments should out-weight political consideration and written legal jargon.

[steveromagnino]

I think the main point to consider is ... whose money does the bank hold?

I think it's safe to say that the majority of the bank's holdings are more likely to belong to hi-so Thais (potentially Democrat voters or even anti-government protesters) than factory workers and up-country farmers, so there's likely to be enormous opposition to any plan to use the money to prop up the government.

If there is any hint of a deal being made, I would expect to see a run on the bank as depositors move quickly to place their cash elsewhere.

KTB is regularly used like most govt banks in the TRT era, as a convenient source of off-balance sheet financing for whatever, as a compliant group of directors and senior management are told what to do, and they do it. Quasi fiscal spending is basically using government owned banks to dole out cash which doesn't affect the govt budget directly - it's like hidden money. This is the role the BAAC plays in administrating the rice pledging scheme - a compliant and corrupt partner which removes the govt from directly getting their hands dirty.

That said, KTB is a listed company, like many other listed companies who alledgedly have Shinawatra hands 'in the till' e.g. KTB, MCOT, etc so a duty of care is owed to its owners who are far more than just the government. Minority shareholders have rights. No duty of care is owed to the poor or to social responsibility other than generalities within their mission statement; they are not micro financing, they are a profitable enterprise with an objective to deliver shareholder value. Not a frigging charity <deleted>.

I doubt we would see much of a run, KTB gets a lot of its deposits from many government workers who must have KTB accounts, and associated to govt businesses - it's not a 'proper' legitimate bank (and everyone knows that) - it's a govt plaything.

Let's rewind back to the era of TRT when KTB had Shin hands in the till (like they are trying to do now)

"The use of quasi-fiscal measures could cause potential negative impacts, such as operational risks for state-owned financial institutions, particularly the Krung Thai Bank, Government Savings Bank and Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Co-operatives, which have been indirectly compelled to provide loans to individuals and groups of people that the government wants to help." (2004)

This is the data of quasi fiscal spending during TRT era and (percentage of annual budget) much of it via KTB

2002 103,669.0 (10%)

2003 295,993.0 (30%)

2004 569,597.9 (49%)

Source :http://www.socialwatch.org/book/export/html/11006

Sources: Fiscal Risk Management Group, Fiscal Policy Office, Ministry of Finance; Budget Bureau; National Economic and Social Development Office; calculations by the research team of Aphichart Sathitniramai.

This is where the great growth of TRT came from - spending cash that was borrowed.

Now we see the same approach; the problem is KTB are not sure they want to run up bad debts again like they did last time. I am sure we all remember this loan debarcle also with KTB forced to give favourable loans to the Shinawatras:

"Krung Thai Bank Loan (selected highlights)

KTB last week lodged a formal complaint with AEC over the loans case, as requested, but it was incomplete because it incriminated only Thaksin, not its own executives and officials.

March 12: AEC ruled to appoint an investigative panel to probe Thaksin Shinawatra, his wife, his son and Krung Thai Bank officials over loans extended to the Krisada Mahanakorn Group.

The AEC subcommittee has said 32 people and five companies were involved in the loans which were alleged to to have cost the state up to Bt4.5 billion.

Sak said damages caused by extending the KTB loan to the Krisada Mahanakorn group was estimated at Bt4.5 billion.

A Krung Thai Bank witness has testified to the subcommittee, incriminating Thaksin, his wife Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra and their son Panthongtae Shinawatra for ordering the bank to approve the loan.

The case has been under the spotlight since last year when the Bank of Thailand filed a complaint with the police charging executives and officials of Krung Thai Bank with improperly granting a Bt9.9billion loan to Golden Technology Industry Park Co, an affiliate of Krissada Mahanakorn Co.

The BOT alleged improper use of about Bt4.5 billion of the loan. Krung Thai Bank allegedly extended the loan by taking highly inflated collateral security.

Investigators have traced financial transactions of the loan and are trying to find out if there were other recipients and how the money was transferred. The findings will facilitate an inspection of share transfers by Krissada Mahanakorn. The team wants to find out who benefited from the transfers.

The panel found that some part of the loan extended to the group was paid as cheques in the name of Panthongtae and Manop, executives of How Come Entertainment, run by Panthongtae, and the mother of Kanchana Honghern, personal secretary to Pojaman." (nation multimedia, 2006/7)

note this is one of the charges that cannot be started against Thaksin until he returns because he cannot be tried in absentia - therefore Thaksin wants amnesty for this and all the other cases.

Edited February 4, 2014 by steveromagnino

[drand11]

I agree, why cant the legal issues related to the banks be reviewed by constitution board and move forward. Govt cant hand rice back to farmers, the govt purchased the rice at an agreed to price. Farmers would have endless claims against govt due to reduced returns / addl management/ handling costs etc..

[Scamper]

" ... and farmers will be fully paid without the money dropping somewhere ... "

If the manager of Krung Thai bank can utter such a phrase, that is really something, as Krung Thai bank has had a long association with the Pheu Thai party, and therefore basically is the only place the Yingluck administration can instinctively now turn to. That phrase suggests so much of what is wrong with this whole programme, and specifically as to how it is administered. Indeed, the money is " dropping somewhere ". It is the very heart of the matter - and " dropping somewhere " is probably the most explicit reference to corruption that we will ever hear from a public official. But the caveat that it would have to clear the law will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, as all the consistent indications have been that the law is most definitively not on side.

[NongKhaiKid]

I wonder what' going on behind the scenes in the banking sector as a desperate government tries to find money to keep the wolves, sorry the rice farmers at bay.

How much hair pulling and arm twisting is going on plus threats of all kinds being issued ?

I know nothing of how serious banking is conducted but would think if local banks are keeping this at arm's length then there will be no joy from international institutions except perhaps China and they would be in it for than just making a profit.

[MaxLee]

I wonder what' going on behind the scenes in the banking sector as a desperate government tries to find money to keep the wolves, sorry the rice farmers at bay.

How much hair pulling and arm twisting is going on plus threats of all kinds being issued ?

I know nothing of how serious banking is conducted but would think if local banks are keeping this at arm's length then there will be no joy from international institutions except perhaps China and they would be in it for than just making a profit.

Behind the scenes,... that's EXACTLY what's the issue, especially when it comes to money, money, money...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

From the OP report above, it sounds like the KT Bank guy is trying to talk out of all sides of his mouth at the same time.

Given that KT Bank is, as noted, a creature of the Thai government, it's not surprising that pressure would be put on those entities like KT that are under the sway of the Finance Ministry.

Given the new Auditor General's report recommending that the rice pledging scheme be scrapped because it's been plagued by corruption from top to bottom, it certainly will be interesting to see whether KT performs as a real bank would, or simply continues to be a politically influenced arm of the government.

[Lite Beer]

KTB president denies loan granted to finance rice-pledging scheme

BANGKOK: -- Krungthai Bank President Vorapak Tanyawong on Tuesday denied the rumour that the bank granted loan to the government's rice pledging scheme.

He added that the meeting of the bank’s executive committee members on Tuesday is a regular meeting and there is no agenda to consider granting loan to the scheme.

He said that the bank has upheld the good governance and transparency and would not allow anyone to use it as a political tool.

-- The Nation 2014-02-04

[Old Man River]

Well that condition would almost certainly not come about.

The scheme is indeed riddled with corruption and the scheme is also under the microscope of the NACC and the courts and charges have already been laid.

The banks should really be asking if any offer will be legally challenged after the money has moved. My belief is that any move to loan the money will have big ramifications that the government has absolutely zero say in the matter.

Protest blockades of banks and petitions to the courts for the government borrowing money which it is not able to do as a caretaker government are just 2 that spring to mind.

I think KTB has no intention of lending the government money and are just trying to show some rhetorical compassion.

I think KTB will make the payments. Let's see how it plays out.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[NongKhaiKid]

From the OP report above, it sounds like the KT Bank guy is trying to talk out of all sides of his mouth at the same time.

Given that KT Bank is, as noted, a creature of the Thai government, it's not surprising that pressure would be put on those entities like KT that are under the sway of the Finance Ministry.

Given the new Auditor General's report recommending that the rice pledging scheme be scrapped because it's been plagued by corruption from top to bottom, it certainly will be interesting to see whether KT performs as a real bank would, or simply continues to be a politically influenced arm of the government.

Last paragraph nails it.

[MaxLee]

From the OP report above, it sounds like the KT Bank guy is trying to talk out of all sides of his mouth at the same time.

Given that KT Bank is, as noted, a creature of the Thai government, it's not surprising that pressure would be put on those entities like KT that are under the sway of the Finance Ministry.

Given the new Auditor General's report recommending that the rice pledging scheme be scrapped because it's been plagued by corruption from top to bottom, it certainly will be interesting to see whether KT performs as a real bank would, or simply continues to be a politically influenced arm of the government.

If the Krungthai Director does not comply, he and his family will certainly be punished for making Kittirat and co. lose face,.... wanna bet???

[Lite Beer]

Krung Thai Bank president: No loans for govt's rice scheme
By Digital Content

BANGKOK, Feb 4 – The state-owned Krung Thai Bank reiterated today that it has not extended loans to the government for overdue payments to farmers under the Bt160-billion rice pledging scheme.

Krung Thai Bank president Vorapak Tanyawong said the bank only received a letter of invitation for a bid in the programme by the Public Debt Management Office, and it has declined the invitation due to time constraints.

He said Krung Thai Bank would absolutely not be a political tool and, as a listed company in Thailand’s stock market, it stresses good governance, transparency and professionalism in its management.

A loan request for the rice subsidy scheme is not on the agenda of the Board of Directors meeting today, he said.

Mr Vorapak said he believed the government would urgently assist farmers without affecting the operations of financial institutes, adding that Krung Thai Bank would be ready to help unless it has an impact on the bank.

He said it would be difficult to directly extend loans to farmers as it is the responsibility of the Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives.

Asked if it would be possible for Krung Thai Bank to join an auction to issue government bonds, Mr Vorapak said several related factors, including legal aspects, the caretaker government’s power as a guarantor and the bank’s liquidity, will have to be taken into consideration.

Government bonds must be rated AAA, he added.

“We have to make sure that the borrowing will not create misunderstanding among depositors. If the required criteria are met, the bank will ready to consider the loan request like other commercial banks,” he said.

He said clients have inquired about the loans and given explanations but there has been no unusual deposit withdrawals as yet.

Krung Thai Bank is 55 per cent owned by the state with a customer base of 12 million retailed customers and 90 per cent of loans based on deposits.

A group of Krung Thai Bank employees, dressed in black to express their protest, gathered at the Krung Thai head office today as the executives gave a press conference.

They expressed strong objection to a loan extension to the government and insisted that the bank must not become a political tool. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-02-04

[MaxLee]

Mr Vorapak said he believed the government would urgently assist farmers without affecting the operations of financial institutes, .....

.... Asked if it would be possible for Krung Thai Bank to join an auction to issue government bonds, Mr Vorapak said several related factors, including legal aspects, the caretaker government’s power as a guarantor and the bank’s liquidity, will have to be taken into consideration.

in other words "how can I avoid to lose face and avoid Pheu Thai Finance Ministry to lose face??? I'm in deep crap now, what shall I do,... I'm freaking scared now.... "

“We have to make sure that the borrowing will not create misunderstanding among depositors. If the required criteria are met, the bank will ready to consider the loan request like other commercial banks,” he said.

No normal bank customer understands the complicated policies that you issue, especially Khun FALANGS, because most bank staff NO Sa-PEAK English

[trogers]

"...if there is no law prohibiting the bank from doing just that"

I will repeat what I had posted before - Why does the govt not ask a ruling from the Constitution Court to make clear whether this act of seeking loans is legitimate or not?

Banks can then act accordingly instead of hesitating.

The EC have told the caretaker government that they cannot borrow any money.

No, The EC did not tell this caretaker govt that they cannot borrow. The EC said, "Do it at your own risk".