Bangkok hotels refuse to return deposit to cancelled tours

[KOZMO]

Great! Hotels contributing to Thailand's image of being totally corrupt.

Where is the corruption? People pay for bookings so that when they turn up, they know they have a room. Most hotels will give refunds, but will deduct an administration fee. That is the same all over the world.

Nothing all over the world is the same as corrupt Thailand!!!!

[impulse]

noitom: my travel insurance coverage is comprehensive and excess free. Play the game or lose your money.

I only go away twice a year but I purchase advance annual travel insurance for my wife and I at a small premium. I'm covered for eventualities you haven't even considered, including motorbikes.

This isn't about Thais stiffing people as it's the same the world over. You're ranting with no idea how to cover your investment.

If you can't afford decent insurance then don't moan when it goes belly up. The world obviously owes you a living, tsk.

I don't disagree with your sentiments.

But read the fine print and see if you're still covered for problems caused by "riots" or "states of emergency".

If you think hotels are bad about paying out, insurance companies make them look like your generous uncle that always gave you cash on special occasions.

[moe666]

Why would they be complaining to the hotel it is the tour company they need to talk to as they are the ones who took the deposit. I know a girl here in Chiang Mai who is on a tour and she doesn't even know the name of the hotel until she gets there. The description of here hotel in Kanchanaburi was Raft accommodation.

The hotels also get screwed by the tour companies not sending the deposits to the hotels, a friend works at a hotel in Bangkok and she confirms the reservations with tour groups and she got a bit soft and allowed the booking to go thru without the deposit and she was in big trouble with the boss.

Stop posting non-sense unless you know the full sstory

[moe666]

How does his suggestion that tour operators should find another tour help the end user to recover his loss? The deposits should be returned. Thais are trying to stiff the foreigners. What goes around comes around.

How do you know the deposits were even paid tour companies screw the hotels on the deposits on a regular basis. There maybe no deposit to return. The usual non-sense post by people who do not know the full story but of course it is corrupt Thailand at fault. Should not the deposit be paid by the people who took the money the tour operator

[tim armstrong]

This is about the idea of only thinking for today, - so common amongst thais.

[impulse]

This is about the idea of only thinking for today, - so common amongst thais.

'Give you a hint. It's pretty common among most of the people of the world that live from hand to mouth.

If you can't feed your family today, what good are all those plans for next year? (If the hotel is going broke from lack of tourists this year, what good are next year's tourists?)

And it's a tough habit to break in the first few generations that rise above hand to mouth. Give it time.

Not just a Thai thing.

Edited February 8, 2014 by impulse

[spidermike007]

In most civilized countries, how is something like this issue handled? The government authorities get involved, and so do the consumer advocacy groups, as well as the consumer protection agencies. Well, no such thing exists in this supposedly modern, and civilized country. So, there are no safeguards for tourists, or consumers. Who's fault is that? An inept government, with little regard for it's own common people, nor any respect, or regard for tourists or foreign nationals, beyond the cash they bring in. Well, guess what? If behavior like this is allowed to continue, the cash they bring in may decline over the years. People are well informed these days. If the hotel owners were fined 100,00 baht per offense, and the government threatened to take their licenses away, how quickly would a problem like this be resolved? Hopefully, the woeful tourists will fight, either by disputing this with their banks, or credit card companies, or the tour operators, or by giving the hotels in question a black eye on the internet. Fight back. Do not take it laying down. Give them a dose of their own medicine. Do not let criminal behavior go unpunished. Ever.

[madmitch]

In most civilized countries, how is something like this issue handled? The government authorities get involved, and so do the consumer advocacy groups, as well as the consumer protection agencies. Well, no such thing exists in this supposedly modern, and civilized country. So, there are no safeguards for tourists, or consumers. Who's fault is that? An inept government, with little regard for it's own common people, nor any respect, or regard for tourists or foreign nationals, beyond the cash they bring in. Well, guess what? If behavior like this is allowed to continue, the cash they bring in may decline over the years. People are well informed these days. If the hotel owners were fined 100,00 baht per offense, and the government threatened to take their licenses away, how quickly would a problem like this be resolved? Hopefully, the woeful tourists will fight, either by disputing this with their banks, or credit card companies, or the tour operators, or by giving the hotels in question a black eye on the internet. Fight back. Do not take it laying down. Give them a dose of their own medicine. Do not let criminal behavior go unpunished. Ever.

What's the offence?

Where's the criminal behaviour?

A non-refundable deposit is just that.

It is only wrong if the hotels are refusing to return deposits in violation of the terms and conditions of the booking, e.g free cancellation if cancelled a certain number of days before the guests' arrival.

As quite rightly pointed out above, the customer needs to read the cancellation provisions at the time of booking. Agoda, for example, may offer different prices with different cancellation terms, with the hotel offering a substantial discount for a non-refundable payment. If you go for the cheapest option, that's a risk you have to take.

Group tours need to negotiate their own cancellation terms both with the hotels and their clients and if they fail to correlate the figures then it's their fault if they lose out.

[spidermike007]

In most civilized countries, how is something like this issue handled? The government authorities get involved, and so do the consumer advocacy groups, as well as the consumer protection agencies. Well, no such thing exists in this supposedly modern, and civilized country. So, there are no safeguards for tourists, or consumers. Who's fault is that? An inept government, with little regard for it's own common people, nor any respect, or regard for tourists or foreign nationals, beyond the cash they bring in. Well, guess what? If behavior like this is allowed to continue, the cash they bring in may decline over the years. People are well informed these days. If the hotel owners were fined 100,00 baht per offense, and the government threatened to take their licenses away, how quickly would a problem like this be resolved? Hopefully, the woeful tourists will fight, either by disputing this with their banks, or credit card companies, or the tour operators, or by giving the hotels in question a black eye on the internet. Fight back. Do not take it laying down. Give them a dose of their own medicine. Do not let criminal behavior go unpunished. Ever.

What's the offence?

Where's the criminal behaviour?

A non-refundable deposit is just that.

It is only wrong if the hotels are refusing to return deposits in violation of the terms and conditions of the booking, e.g free cancellation if cancelled a certain number of days before the guests' arrival.

As quite rightly pointed out above, the customer needs to read the cancellation provisions at the time of booking. Agoda, for example, may offer different prices with different cancellation terms, with the hotel offering a substantial discount for a non-refundable payment. If you go for the cheapest option, that's a risk you have to take.

Group tours need to negotiate their own cancellation terms both with the hotels and their clients and if they fail to correlate the figures then it's their fault if they lose out.

OK, perhaps criminal behavior was too strong. What I meant is moral, and ethical behavior. It is about taking responsibility. The protests are disrupting many things in the capital, and it is only correct, right, and fair for the hotels to be taking that into account, and refunding the deposits REGARDLESS of their refund policies. This is not about the letter or the law, but more about doing the right thing. How about that for a concept?

[romeijoe]

moved out of a condo in bangkok last year, made sure i didnt loose my deposit,just dint pay the months rent before moving!

Done got my deposit back, only way to be sure of it .

Even though i love most things about my adobted country , i have learnt enough of it to not be silly when it comes to money, the thais love their money:)

[boomerangutang]

Thai words, definitions for the day:

Loan = grant

refundable deposit = fogedaboudit,

Thai thinking: "The money is in my pocket. You farang are all rich anyway. You can go to any ATM anytime, and take out Bt.20,000 in 2 minutes.

In N. Thailand, once when I was new to the country: I put Bt.5,000 deposit on a rental house. I found out an hour later, the electricity couldn't be turned on. I went right away to get my deposit back. The Thai owner (who owned some gold-selling shops) said no, and walked away.

[happysanook]

Great! Hotels contributing to Thailand's image of being totally corrupt.

I'm normally quite quick to bash Thai, but I don't find this corrupt at all. This is exactly the purpose of a deposit. So the hotel will hold the room for you. It's not the hotels fault the tourist didn't come. Whether the tourist is dead, sick, dying or it's because of political upheaval, that is the hotel's right to keep the deposit.

I fact, on the internet these days, there is no deposit to pay.

There was a deposit. That's the whole point of the thread. If there wasn't a deposit, then what are the tourists trying to get back.

[fish fingers]

is there a list of the Hotels? sorry haven't read through

[icare999]

depends on terms of booking we often book cheap rates which clearly state not refundable so before assuming its bad hotels check terms of booking

[IAMSOBAD]

I love all the hotel ads popping up throughout this thread

Very ironic!

[mightyatom]

It's all quite simple really.

For every 100 baht they have made from non-returned deposits, they will lose an easy 1000 baht in the future.

The hotels that did the decent thing will be talked about between the tour operators when they are having their bitch about it among themselves. The honest hotels will come out on top and cream the business from the tight fisted ones.

It happens in all modes of business.

[Benmart]

Great! Hotels contributing to Thailand's image of being totally corrupt.

Where is the corruption? People pay for bookings so that when they turn up, they know they have a room. Most hotels will give refunds, but will deduct an administration fee. That is the same all over the world.

Lets have a think, shall we?

Let's say / pretend, I book a room and a TOUR in a hotel in BKK.

I pay deposit - ( as is standard practice all over the world) then suddenly BKK is plunged into political turmoil.

Me - being a foreigner and not resident in BKK and probably getting an albeit lop-sided view of what is going in BKK, might feel uneasy to say the least, about coming into BKK.

So I call up and cancel - not because I can't come because Aunt Mabel is having her 3rd wedding ceremony on the booked dates, or I changed my mind - but because I am afraid for myself and my family.

This is a unique situation which requires understanding from the hoteliers and management thereof.

Some hotels ARE returning deposits.

WHY?

Could it possibly be that they actually UNDERSTAND the reasons for a cancellation?

Or are they wrong to refund?

For some people - coming to Thailand is the holiday of a lifetime. They are not coming back year in and year out - and they may well never actually make it now due to the current situation.

If I was manager of a hotel in BKK - I would definitely try to help my potential clients and support them.

You however, might not.

Different strokes for different folks I guess!

Just don't apply for a job in one of my establishments!

I agree. The situation in BKK is unique and unforeseen by someone booking in advance. This is much like a volcano erupting, a Tsunami tragedy or earthquake. The BKK is certainly man-made, but not something foreseen on a long range calendar.

I was in San Jose, Costa Rica the day of 9/11. With all US air travel grounded, the San Jose Airport Marriott Hotel rebooked everyone that had just checked out that morning and reduced the rates across the board. Avis also upgraded and reduced the car rental rates so we could get around from the airport location. Both businesses understood that budgets were tight since most people were heading home after their holidays.

A bit of understanding and compassion from both these companies sold me as a solid, lifetime customer.

Businesses are there to make a profit. Long term customers generate long term profits and they spread immeasurable advertisement for those businesses that take care of them.

[Benmart]

If I book a hotel and subsequently cancel then I expect to lose some money, if not all in some instances.

I generally book with agoda and the hotels all have different cancellation policies. You need to read the small print before you book. It's not hard and saves lots of bellyaching on TV later on.

Bellyaching often generates the exchange of ideas, which may be a reason why some people visit TV.

Just my Two-Satangs worth.

[Benmart]

I asked my translator app for the Thai for "farang want refund" and all I got was giggles.

LOL

Yes, that info should be part of a handbook for new tourists to Thailand...Never rent a Jet-ski...Never put yourself in a situation involving physical conflict...Never pre-pay a Thai business person. The rule is that once they have your money it is impossible to pry it out of their hands, whether or not the product or service was delivered.

I have not done business with every Thai business person, so I can't comment on them all.

[marko kok prong]

reminds me of something i read on stickman,biusness was slow in nana,so the put the prices up, i find it incredible that they can be so short sighted,but sadly levels of service in thailand are generally poor,i am on holiday on koh chang and the light in the bathroom did not work,i asked the maids ,asked reception,my pen rai i was told,needless to say it was never fixed,along with the cracked glass in the fridge,and i was paying 1,800 a night,i am afraid they are just hopeless.

[impulse]

reminds me of something i read on stickman,biusness was slow in nana,so the put the prices up, i find it incredible that they can be so short sighted,but sadly levels of service in thailand are generally poor,i am on holiday on koh chang and the light in the bathroom did not work,i asked the maids ,asked reception,my pen rai i was told,needless to say it was never fixed,along with the cracked glass in the fridge,and i was paying 1,800 a night,i am afraid they are just hopeless.

$56 a night for a room at a destination resort at a tropical beach during high season (and Chinese New Year to boot). With a private bath, no less. That would lower my expectations more than just a little.

You want luxury service quality, check in where you pay luxury prices. I passed a few $500-1500 a night places driving in Koh Chang last week. (That's $, not baht) I'm sure they'll take care of the light bulb and the cracked glass right away-probably before their guest even knows about it.

Edited February 9, 2014 by impulse