Advice please - I’m extremely worried about my my 9 year old Golden Retriever

[Mobi]

I have hesitated to write about this as I understand how difficult and probably how pointless it is to try and get a diagnosis for a sick dog on an internet forum.

But nothing ventured, nothing gained, and it is always possible that someone out there may have come across a similar problem before.

I have a 9 year old female golden retriever, Cookie, who apart from a slightly dodgy rear hip joint, has always been in the best of health.

A few weeks ago she started to limp on one of her front legs and it gradually got worse. We tracked down her problem to a swollen front leg. The swelling is in the upper, 'meaty' part of the leg.

We took her to what I still believe is a pretty good vet. It is a large, well equipped, very clean veterinary hospital on Sukhumvit Road in Jomtien, (Muang Ake, not far from Macro) and I have used it before and have been very impressed with the apparent expertise of the vets there. It has also been well recommended by others.

They took X-rays and blood tests, drew out some fluid from the swollen joint and told us that Cookie had a bad infection, probably caused by our young Labrador nipping Cookie when they play together

So we took her home, gave her loads of meds and waited for her leg to get better.

As far as I’m aware her temperature is normal and there are no other symptoms.

That was over a month ago, and since then we have been back twice for further treatment and more meds but Cookie is not getting any better– in fact she is now much worse than when we first took her in.

There was a brief period when she seemed to improve, the swelling went down and she was hobbling around a bit but she is now hardly able to move at all.

She lies down 24/7, only managing to hobble into the garden to go to the toilet and get a drink from the water bucket on the porch. She is hardly eating and looks to be in a really sorry state. She is not a fussy eater and I have never known for her to be off her food before.

In the last couple of days I’ve noticed that when she hobbles, she sometimes drags one of her back legs as well as limping on the front leg. This maybe because the leg has become sort of numb from lack of use – I don’t really know but she looks really terrible. (Update – just saw her limping and her back leg seems to be OK, so I think I’m right about it just being stiff from so much lying down).

I know I should probably take her to another vet for a second opinion, but if I do that I will have to go through the whole process again – x-rays, blood tests etc, and I may not be any further forward. How can I trust the new vet?

And also, to be perfectly honest, my funds are very limited and I have already spent thousands at the current vet trying to get her sorted. If I could be absolutely sure that a different vet was going to be any better, then I would give it a go, but I am very reluctant to throw good money after bad – I just cannot afford it.

So do the symptoms ring any bell with anyone out there? Is there anything you would like to know that may help you narrow down the causes?

Thanks for any suggestions – it just brings tears to my eyes to see her in this state – I am sure she is in a lot of pain.

Mobi

Edited February 9, 2014 by Mobi

[isanbirder]

I can't help... but just want to say Good luck! I know what you are feeling as I've been through the same thing myself with a beloved pet.

[nonthaburial]

Mobi, I can feel your pain and frustration. I had two Goldens when I lived in Thailand, and they are, in my opinion the perfect dog.

I am not a Vet, but have had dogs around me all my life, my first wonder was whether she had been bitten by a mildly venomous snake ? It must also be remembered that Goldens are working dogs, and if they are not able to get around, just as yours is at this moment, they do tend to have joint stiffness, especially the hips., but that is usually able to be walked off, which is possibly why she appeared stiff at the rear one moment, but next moment seemed ok.

You stated that her front upper leg was swollen and obviously causing her discomfort, do you mean the upper leg such as the shoulder ? As again there is a joint there as well as a lot of muscle, all very tender areas when inflamed or damaged.

Also, sadly, and it comes to all of us, 9 years for a dog, is starting to put her in the elderly bracket and joints and muscles do tend to seize etc.

As you seem happy with your Vet, may I suggest you stick with him but push him to drop what could be his tunnel vision and expand his thoughts a little. You stated perhaps a younger dog nibbled her whilst playing, to me that would be unlikely, but did the Vet or yourself check the painful area to see if there were any puncture wounds, because I have known animals to have problems if bitten even by a rat, and it does happen .

Hope you see light at the end of the tunnel soon.

[Mobi]

I was surprised when the vet suggested my Labrador had bitten Cookie, but then thinking about it, it made sense.

The Labrador is very boisterous and always wants to play with us and the other dogs and he likes to use his teeth to playfully nibble us and the other dogs, so when I thought about it it seemed quite reasonable that it might have caused of the problem.

I think it's pointless looking for puncture wounds now as the area seems to be inflamed from taking blood and drawing out fluid. Maybe the vet saw something to start with that gave him a clue, but then the leg was covered in fur so difficult to see anyway.

Maybe not - I just don't know.

I am pretty sure her back legs are just seizing up from lack of exercise. .

I attach some pics of her leg which may help you see the problem area.

I am still undecided whether to stick with the current vet. Maybe a second opinion would be a good idea, but the problem is how to trust them? they can say anything and I wouldn't know if they were making it up or not.

Anyway, thanks for the reply - it is much appreciated.

[nonthaburial]

Hi again mobi, yes the area shown is up in the fleshy muscular area just south of the shoulder. I really do have doubts that this injury has been caused by another dog. One only has to see a lot of Soi dogs that are scrappers, they are covered in wounds and scabs etc, but still actively mobile.

I know this might sound ridiculous, by how about putting a relatively tight elastic bandage around the affected leg area - not too tight mind, and observe her reactions. I have seen this done before.

[bina]

hi mobi

you say she is off her food? a golden? then she really doesnt feel good. so either she has an infection that has gone septic and systamatic or she has something else wrong with her:

blood work can be sent other vets for a reading; so can xrays.

tick fever?

cancer?

so does it hurt her if you move the leg or press on it?

how is her urine?

what colour are her gums if u press on the gums? (healthy pink, white? blueish?)

i also dont think a small nip from an other dog would cause a serious problem but a good puncture wound would cause aenarobic bacteria to develop and those kind of infections are difficult to treat and need specifric antibiotics... unfortunately i had a buck goat that also started with minor infection that went septic and he also deteriorated slowly do to , basically, blood poisoning... so the blood work would have to be done again anyhow, to see waht is going on, and perhaps they have to broadent the blood work? (sometimes vet blood work that is done at a vet's is in a special blood works machine that just does basic white blood cells, red blood cells platelets, clotting, and iron/creatine etc. but there is more specific blood work, for bacterias etc taht vets ahve to send the samples to vet schools or labs, and in this case, i would opt for vet school ...

and possibly ultrasound/xray not just of the leg but other areas (abdoment, etc).

infortunately money is always problematic but perhaps you can save costs by have the blood work taken and you running with it to the lab/vet school yourself,

either way at this rate she will need to be put on iv fluids very soon, which also costs per bag, depending on what she will get, so you'd best try to narrow down problems... and decide ahead of time what to do if the prognosis isnt optimistic i.e. how much money u can invest/operations/basic treatment, etc.

i am never one to critize people if they dont have the funds; i went thru that with my boxers. the one put me in debt and the second i refused complex treatment ans went for palliative only....whereas i know people that had their dogs operated on to the cost of severalt flights to thailand and back again. so yo will have to decide how far you will go with her.

the otehr thing is switch to wet /canned foods with moisture in them, more palatable, easier for her to deal with; or home cook foods that she will eat in mean time to keep weight and nutrients up.

i personally dont think her stiffness comes from lack of use. especially if it happens onlyh on one leg on one side unless she has some dysplasia or something already on the one side which would explain the stiffness from lack of use.

most goldens ahve stopped being sports dogs several breedings ago, and actually suffer more from genetic problems due to the fact that they are the favored house dog in a majority of countries.

could it be two different problems taht are just cooincidentally occurring at the same time?

what kind of infection did the vet feel she have? what did he give her for antibiotics (by injection/oral/iv)? pain killers? how long did she get the antibiotics?

i cant read vet blood work (i dont remember the base lines) but u can compare them in the internet in vetmed i think...

[whoisyourdaddy]

3.suggestions.

1. Hospital you went is actually really bad in my opinion . Try dr Kwanchai at Pattaya animal clinic on Pattaya tai, go after 8pm, he does the night shift

2. Put Cookie on glucosamine as swelling could be arthritis , either way glucosamine would do her well for all legs

3. It could be fat deposits , if in the wrong spot it does cause dog a problem.

I have 2 old dogs, both 15+ years old. Both on glucosamine daily, one had surgery to remove fat deposits which made her limp.

Again, go see dr Kwanchai , he has been looking after my gang for years and as I mentioned they are over 15 years old.

[Mobi]

We can now see some strange purple lumps on upper fleshy part of the rear leg so it seems that it is a bit more than just being stiff.

The poor dog is in a bad state and can hardly move at all. She ate nothing at all yesterday and a tiny bit this morning (when my gf hand fed her) and drank a lot of water.

I think I'm going to try a vet not too far from where I live which has had good reviews/reports and is not too expensive.

Thanks Bina and the others for your posts and i will bear in mind your comments.

To be honest I am not at all sure what the vet was saying about the infection as she spoke to my GF in Thai and as I had every expectation that it would clear up in few days I didn't bother to ask.

I will report back after the vet visit, but I suspect they will keep her in as she looks really bad today.

[whoisyourdaddy]

We can now see some strange purple lumps on upper fleshy part of the rear leg so it seems that it is a bit more than just being stiff.

The poor dog is in a bad state and can hardly move at all. She ate nothing at all yesterday and a tiny bit this morning (when my gf hand fed her) and drank a lot of water.

I think I'm going to try a vet not too far from where I live which has had good reviews/reports and is not too expensive.

Thanks Bina and the others for your posts and i will bear in mind your comments.

To be honest I am not at all sure what the vet was saying about the infection as she spoke to my GF in Thai and as I had every expectation that it would clear up in few days I didn't bother to ask.

I will report back after the vet visit, but I suspect they will keep her in as she looks really bad today.

Hope all is ok, but as said, i would go to see Dr Kwanchai, as not only he is a good doctor, but also speaks fluent English, so no misunderstandings.

By the way, i found a run over pup few weeks ago, in a really bad shape with little hope, he, Dr Kwanchai, managed to save him

Spinal surgery(broken spine),legs(broken legs, both), broken jaw(rewired jaw)

Dog is alive and happy, still hoping movement in back legs will come back, but in the mean time, he is making him a wheel chair.

So strongly recommend him, as not too many Vets around can do spinal surgery.

[Mobi]

Well I decided to try out the vet not too far from where I live because there are a number of threads on Thai Visa that sing his praises and say he and his wife (also a vet ) are very caring and skilled.

I think I did the right thing.

He looked at at all the meds prescribed by the previous vet and explained to me what they were for - which is more than the other vet bothered to do, and he thought they were all probably correct.

Anyway, he did another blood test which took 10 minutes (at the previous vet they had to call us the next day with the results), and he went through the test results with me, showing me the print out which gave the normal range and the results. He also took a biopsy of the lumps on Cookie's legs.

Cookie has a parasite in her blood (passed on by an infected tick),which has caused her serious liver problems and she has a very high fever. She was in very weak state and he said she was in danger of dying from shock. He asked for permission to shave off all her hair, (which of course I gave), as he said it was difficult to get her fever down with all that heavy hair coat on her, and he has put her on an iv drip , and kept her in cool room

In less than an hour later she looked much more comfortable and responded to seeing us, and the other dogs, who still recognised her in spite of the loss of her hair.

Yes, we had to go back home and bring our 3 other dogs to see the vet as he wanted to see if they had also been infected by the blood parasite. He did the blood tests and they are all infected. Mickey,our young Labrador is OK apart from the parasite, but the two shih tsus both have fevers and liver problems. He has given them a load of meds and reckons it will take two weeks to clear up the problem,but he wants to see the two little ones in a week to check on their progress.

He is keeping Cookie in overnight and will call is tomorrow and tell us if she well enough to go home. he doesn't want to keep her there too long as due to her age she might get too stressed by being away from her family.

He thinks Cookie's leg is on the mend and is concentrating on her other problems to start with. He said she also had cancer in her legs but he needs to get her stronger before he treats her for that.

So its not very good news, but at least she is getting proper care, and we have caught the blood parasite problems in our other 3 dogs quite early.

He said the ticks that carry this parasite are a bit like the mosquitoes that carry dengue fever, and can be deadly. He actually told me much more than I have written in this post but it was quite difficult to take it all in.

Thanks for all the advice, and please feel free to comment.

[bina]

tick fever and cancer = coincidence but not entirely since the tick fever lowers the immune system so other problmes exacerbate.

there are many kindso f tick fevers in thailand; i know that here dogs with tick fever often need blood given; the treatment for the tick fever is usually some form of tetracycline/doxicillin (unless there are newer antibiotics nowadays), plus supportive treatments, for at least a month.. the disease mostly is cyclical and sometimes doesnt even present itself, and cannot be found in the blood tests unless its in certain stages. there are specific tests for the tick fever that we have here (SNAP TEST) but here the cost is prohibitive so most vets do a differential diagnoses and process of elimination.

there are several 'tick fevers' and a dog can have one or more at a time. if your poor doggy has cancer, then the tick fever could ahve made her immune system weaker and hence have made more of a problem for her to respond quickly to treatments.

some dogs suffer permament damage from tick fever other dogs seem to bounce back w/o anything wrong. using tick killing products works, but if u live in a tick area (as we do) then u must go over the dogs every day every time they come in the house, or at least twice a day to find the ticks. not all ticks are carriers.

TLC is the best drug of all no matter what meaning finding the foods that she wants to eat, paying frequent attention to her needs (offerring water, even if she refuses sometimes u have to give water or chicken soup with a spoon to stimulate appetite since the antibiotics take away appetite. there is some kind of canned food for post operative dogs which is highly palatable and nutritious but quite expensive, but u can also make your own decent foods. offer small amounts frequently, moist foods.dont worry about spoiling her. it is very easy to retrain a well dog to go back to regular feeding schedules after recuperation.

i think nienke once wrote up something about the various thai tick fever illnesses in dogs, try searching maybe.

as for the possible cancer, u will have to decide how much money and medical interference you will want to do with her; and when /if you have to do treaments/operations (until she has good blood work, as long as she has tick fever, active or regressed many vets wont operate since there are hemorragaeing issues)....

hope your dogs feel better...

[Mobi]

Last Monday the vet told me that she was free of the blood parasite (I think) and her liver was back to normal. He also told me that she had skin cancer and how long she lives will depend on how aggressive the cancer is.

First she has to get her strength back and he suggested that we let her swim for a few minutes each day.

Since then Cookie’s condition has deteriorated sharply. She is very weak and can barely walk. I have to help her to her feet and she limps badly, still favouring her front leg.

She spends her entire time either lying next to my bed or lying near me in the lounge. In the morning, I help her into the garden where she relieves herself and then she limps back into the lounge and flops down again.

Her faeces are well formed but rather black.

She eats very little. Just a couple of spoons of hand fed dog meat a day and maybe a couple of small bananas. She won’t touch her dried dog food which she used to devour. She drinks a small amount of water and also some soya milk which my GF gave her. She seems to like this but doesn't drink very much.

She seems to have problems digesting her food and slightly convulses after eating but doesn't regurgitate. She also coughs.

She has intermittent fevers and sometimes shakes when sleeping.

Looking at the internet I think she has mass cell tumours, and one or two of them have suppurated. She also has wounds which will not heal and keep bleeding when she licks them. We have now wrapped one with a bandage to stop her licking it.

I will try to post some pics later.

I am scheduled to go back to the vet on Monday. I think he is good and caring and I trust him, but I would like to have some informed questions for him to make sure the diagnosis is correct and that we are doing everything we can within reason to make Cookie comfortable.

Do you think she is in pain? She seems to be.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Mobi]

I forgot to mention that she has a wound on her leg which will not heal and she keeps licking it which makes it bleed. So we have covered it with a bandage as you can see.

Here are some pics of her mass cell tumours

[wayned]

My avatar died in January 2013 of the same problem, he was also 9. There's not a lot that you can do except keep her confortable. Toward the end I used a towel under his stomach to help him walk and go outside to go to the bathroom. He didn't seem like he was in much pain and was alert until his last breath, just a big sigh!

[Sheryl]

Insist on getting pain meds from the doctor.

[Mobi]

Insist on getting pain meds from the doctor.

The doctor gave them to her before but for some reason discontinued them

I will ask why, and request some more tomorrow,

She keeps licking at the wound on her leg and making it bleed. Even through the bandage. Don't know how to stop her.

[Sheryl]

She licks it because it hurts her and licking is the only thing she can do.

If you can get her back on pain meds it may help decrease this.

[Neeranam]

I can't help but just want to say that I too have a 9 year old golden retriever.

About a year ago he had a similar problem and I thought he was going to die because of it.

He started eating normally again and actually got fat and lazy. We moved house about 6 months ago and have a nice big garden and he has a new lease of life. He is now the king of the soi after some territorial fighting! I'm amazed at the transformation. Anyways, I empathize and hope she will get better.

[Mobi]

We went to see the doc on Monday and he said that Cookie wasn’t in pain and she kept licking the wound because it itched.

Yesterday, Tuesday, she was still eating a tiny bit of food with her meds but today she has more or less stopped eating completely.

This morning she ate nothing and this evening, after rejecting everything we tried to give her, she eventually took a bit of cooked chicken with her meds.

Then 5 minutes later she vomited it all up, including the morning meds which had remained undigested in her stomach.

The doc said that if the cancer spread to her organs she would stop eating and I suppose this is what has happened. He once this happened she wouldn’t live very long.

She is flat out on the floor and hardly moves and I think she must be near the end. If she doesn't’ eat in the morning I will take her back to the vet and get his opinion.

I am pretty sure that if I was in the west the vet would put her down as she has no quality of life now she has stopped eating, but they are funny about that sort of thing in Thailand.

It is so heart breaking as she has been part of my life for almost 9 years and she is the only one of our four dogs who never leaves my side when I am home; we have been through so much together, one way or another.

I never realised that losing a dog could be so difficult.

[Sheryl]

So sorry to hear this Mobi. Losing a beloved pet is every bit as hard as losing a family member.

The vet cannot possibly be certain the dog is not in pain, so I would continue to push for an analgesic.

You say she has no quality of life but in one respect she still does..she can still enjoy your presence and feel your love, and indeed she really needs it more than ever. So stay close by her and keep talking to her, the sound of your voice will be a great comfort.

[Mobi]

Cookie died at 6.15 this morning.

RIP Cookie.

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[harrry]

Sad to hear you lost a friend. Cookie was lucky. She had one.

[Pdib]

So sorry to hear about your loss! It is so hard to loose a long time four legged faithful friend.

RIP Cookie, my thoughts are with you Mobi.

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[YoungBrit]

Sorry to here that. RIP Cookie.

[wayned]

Sorry to hear about your loss. You were her friend until the end and she knew it as did my avatar when he passed and it's best that she will not suffer anymore!

[Sheryl]

So sorry to hear this, Mobi.

I'm sure the fact that she was able to die in her own home and near her beloved master helped make it less frightening for her. And at least her suffering is over. Poor dog. And my condolences to you. This is the price we pay for the joy of pets: grief when we lose them.

[kimbathewhitelion]

No real reply but wish all the love. Had a Golden for 14 years...all luck.

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[kimbathewhitelion]

Sorry, she died before the end of the post. So not luck but still grievances. Goldens & Labs...the best friends.

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[Patsycat]

Oh, no, not my friend Cookie...

Crying over here for you and her. I know how much she has helped you over the years.

Hugs from me.

[Mobi]

Thanks Annie, Sheryl and all the others who have posted words of condolence.

We're all totally devastated and there have been many tears.

Although the writing has been on the wall for a couple of weeks now - once the vet confirmed she had cancer - it still came as a big shock. He told me it could take between 3 months to three years, depending on how the cancer spread in her body, but he didn't really prepare me for 3 days.

Even on Tuesday she was still eating and drinking a little and was able to hobble in the garden twice a day to go to the toilet. Then yesterday, as I reported in an earlier post, she seemed to go downhill very quickly.

I managed to help her into the garden last night where she did a brief pee and then half carried her into my bedroom where she flopped down at the end of my bed.

Her breathing was laboured and she vomited twice during the night, and my girlfriend stayed with her and cleaned her up each time.

At 6 a.m. she was in bad shape and started retching again. We could see she was dying and after she uttered a last, terrible gasp, she became still.

It was one of the worst experiences of my life.

I don’t know how I would have managed without my girlfriend, who remained strong, and cleaned Cookie up before covering her with a cloth. She then contacted a service attached to a local animal hospital that takes deceased dogs away and gives them a proper, Buddhist-style cremation. They came about 4 hours later and took Cookie away. I couldn’t bear to watch. They offered to bring me back her bones, but I declined.

Our other three dogs seem to know what has happened and they are all very sad and stay close to us.

My girlfriend tells me that Cookie is now free of pain and is with her my girlfriend’s father who died last year – also of cancer.

I wish I could believe this.

Cookie had a happy life and she was much loved and well cared for. She was such a placid, loving dog; I doubt I will find the likes of her again.

RIP Cookie, my lovely, gentle giant.