Aeon Bank now charge 150 B ATM fee

[SurfRider]

.
"I always wondered if these substantial withdrawals using my Schwab DC created a red flag and got my account cancelled even though I had a US address. Some food for thought for those of you with the Schwab card"

I talked to one guy from the U.S. a few months ago who had his Schwab account closed for excessive ATM withdrawals in Thailand. He was doing some sort of small building project somewhere and had higher cash needs that the average Expat. I asked him how many withdrawals he had done, but he said he didn't keep track.

So, somewhere out there in the land of unknown thresholds is one that wakes up the ugly Schwab monster who quickly ends the party. Clearly, at least someone inside the Schwab labyrinth is aware of the exorbitant fees coming from Siam due to the Thai Bankers usury fee.
.

[Groongthep]

Yes, It appears the party is finally over. AEON machines are all charging the 150 Baht fee now. Americans with links to the military can still open an account at USAA and use it's ATM card which will reimburse any and all ATM fees, but you will have to wait until the end of the statement cycle to get it. The USAA card will also still charge you and international transaction fee too.

[Groongthep]

If you have a safe place to store it, exchanging cash at the better money exchange outlets like the Green Super Rich or Vasa (in Bangkok) has once again become a viable way to save money converting money.

As has been mentioned many times before however, this is only practical if you are exchanging large amounts. It doesn't make sense to run all over the city to save a few baht on small transactions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I just tried my PenFed credit card in Lady AEON ATM...the Bt150 fee display still appeared...I canceled the transaction.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

Ditto on that here... NO JOY!!! This morning, I tried a PenFed Promise VISA credit card for cash advance in both a Bank of Ayudhya ATM and an AEON ATM.

Both accepted the notion of doing a credit card cash advance, but both also popped up 150b fee notifications on the ATM screens.

So Jim, our hopes of no-fee credit card cash advances at Thai bank ATMs seem to be dashed.

The other thing to note about this is, while many checking account-linked debit cards like Schwab, State Farm and others have features to reimburse ATM fees, I don't know of any U.S. credit card that reimburses ATM fees incurred when seeking cash advances. The best we know about are credit cards that simply don't charge extra fees themselves, but they don't reimburse the ATM fees from the other bank.

--------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, on the debit card front, since I was already there, I tried a U.S. MC-logo debit card at both the Ayudhya and AEON ATMs.

The Ayudhya ATMs are definitely are among those charging the 180b fee against U.S. MasterCard debit cards. But, as I mentioned previously, the AEON ATMs remain 150 baht, regardless of whether the debit card is VISA or MC logo.

Edited February 16, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If you have a safe place to store it, exchanging cash at the better money exchange outlets like the Green Super Rich or Vasa (in Bangkok) has once again become a viable way to save money converting money.

As has been mentioned many times before however, this is only practical if you are exchanging large amounts. It doesn't make sense to run all over the city to save a few baht on small transactions.

One of the questions I've been wondering, though, is whether places like SuperRich and VASU will do credit card cash advances... or do they only deal in paper money exchanges?

[Groongthep]

. My home bank charges me USD $0.95 for a non-network ATM transaction fee, plus 1% of the total amount I withdrew (maybe Ray's is free for his home bank, but this is the fee I incur with my particular credit union). If I use this same card at a point-of-sale - like in Tesco or Big C, for example - it's done the same way: they swipe the card and I sign just like I would for a credit card purchase. When I purchase items in store like this, my credit union does *not* charge me the ATM transaction fee, so these types of debit transactions are free. If you require proof further than this, I'm afraid you'll have to meet me at the store and watch me buy something.

Kind regards,

WaatWang

Waatwang, I apologise for truncating your post, but I wanted to highlight the fact that you ARE being charged a fee for the over-the-counter withdrawal - this contradicts the claims made earlier in this thread and others around ATM fees in Thailand. On the equivalent of a 500USD withdrawal, you will pay 5.95USD in fees. That's still substantially better than the fees I've been slugged by the Commonwealth Bank here in Oz, but I have the cure and I look forward to using it in BKK and elsewhere. Game, set and match Citibank.

• Compare Australia's only completely fee free everyday bank account, Citibank Plus, against its competitors
• Instant access to your cash at over 3,000 Citibank, Westpac, St.George, BankSA and Bank of Melbourne ATMs throughout Australia
• Free international money transfers from Australia to any account, anywhere in the world
• Instant money transfers when sending funds overseas to another Citibank account using Citibank Global Transfers (CGT)1

I wish it worked this way with US CitiBank ATM cards. Several years back when Citibank began operating in Thailand I contacted Citibank in the US about opening an account so I could use the US issued ATM card at CitiBank machines in Thailand free of fees. It was quickly explained to me that the foreign branches of Citi, although owned by the same parent company are different banks and that I would be charged as if I was using a local (Thai) bank if I used the US CitiBank ATM card in Thailand (both ATM fee and international exchange fee). I told them to f- off and continued to use the AEON machines. Now it is obvious that the AEON option is gone now too. I believe I will now go back to using cash and travellers checks as I used to in the 80s and 90s. What a pathetic hassle.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Groongthep

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

.

"I always wondered if these substantial withdrawals using my Schwab DC created a red flag and got my account cancelled even though I had a US address. Some food for thought for those of you with the Schwab card"

I talked to one guy from the U.S. a few months ago who had his Schwab account closed for excessive ATM withdrawals in Thailand. He was doing some sort of small building project somewhere and had higher cash needs that the average Expat. I asked him how many withdrawals he had done, but he said he didn't keep track.

So, somewhere out there in the land of unknown thresholds is one that wakes up the ugly Schwab monster who quickly ends the party. Clearly, at least someone inside the Schwab labyrinth is aware of the exorbitant fees coming from Siam due to the Thai Bankers usury fee.

.

Obviously, I don't know what happened with that individual, or what exactly led to Schwab's decision.

But I do know this clearly:

1. Obviously, in any kind of ATM fee reimbursement situation, it's better for the cardholder to try to do fewer and larger amount withdrawals vs. more frequent and/or smaller amount ones. In other words, if you're going to ask your bank to pay $5 to reimburse your ATM fee, get the most you can for that money, whether it be 30,000 baht or whatever.

2. In that same spririt, it's likewise going to be safer and better from the cardholder's perspective to have SEVERAL different ATM fee reimbursing accounts at their disposal. That way, for example, you could use Account A for a withdrawal and fee reimbursement this month, but then use Account B for the same next month.

I also think we need to keep in mind that U.S. banks these days also are widely charging domestic customers ATM fees of $2 or $3 or more per withdrawal when the person is using a different bank or network's ATM. So from the fee reimbursing bank's end of things, it's not just international transactions that are generating reimbursements. There's a lot of fee activity going on domestically as well. So it's not like we're a little group all alone in the world on this subject.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Now it is obvious that the AEON option is gone now too. I believe I will now go back to using cash and travellers checks as I used to in the 80s and 90s. What a pathetic hassle.

It's been donkeys years since I ever handled traveler's checks. And they're probably more suited to tourists vs. expats.

But, the other night, I was passing by a TMB exchange booth near my supermarket that had a big sign up about "no fee" exchanges, whatever that means. And not a great exchange rate to boot.

When I looked closer, though, they had a paper sign pasted in the window talking about their fees for handling traveler's checks. And although I just looked quickly, I thought the sign said 150 BAHT PER CHECK and then the smaller per check fees about stamps and whatever.

Are per TC fees really 150 baht per check in Thailand these days???

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There is one problem I see with using a CC over a DC to make is ATM withdrawals. When you make a DC ATM withdrawal the date of the transaction is normally when the rate is determined by Visa/MC but with a CC it may take several days to settle just like a normal CC purchase and that is when the rate is determined, so timing the CC withdrawal at the end of your statement cycle may be a bit tricky unless you did it 3 or 4 days before and don't mind paying interest for those days.

Btw, last year, I did a number of Schwab DC counter withdrawals and those transactions also took several days to settle and get the rate. In fact, I remember losing about $10 on a very large withdrawal because the rate went down between the transaction date and settlement date. A number small quirk, the transactions were visible on the 1st day and then disappeared for about 2 to 3 days and re-appeared when they were finally posted. Even my balance didn't get updated until the transactions re-appeared. These counter transactions kinda acts like CC cash advance without the interest.

Note: I always wondered if these substantial withdrawals using my Schwab DC created a red flag and got my account cancelled even though I had a US address. Some food for thought for those of you with the Schwab card.

Vagabond, on your Thai bank counter withdrawals using a debit card, how did those experiences go?

Did you have an easy time finding Thai banks willing to do debit card counter cash advances? Any bank companies more accommodating than others?

Also, were the amounts of counter withdrawals you were doing above or below the typical 20,000 to 30,000 baht ATM withdrawal limits? I'm trying to get a sense of whether the banks are more willing to do counter withdrawals when the amounts are well above ATM limits.... or... they're OK doing smaller counter withdrawals as well.

I guess I should have added in my earlier suggestions:

--If someone expects to be pulling LARGE amounts of cash over a period of time, it probably makes better sense and is safer to try something like the BKK Bank-New York low-fee international transfer facility as a one-time shot as opposed to doing multiple fee-reimbursed ATM withdrawals over a short period of time.

Edited February 16, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

.

"I always wondered if these substantial withdrawals using my Schwab DC created a red flag and got my account cancelled even though I had a US address. Some food for thought for those of you with the Schwab card"

I talked to one guy from the U.S. a few months ago who had his Schwab account closed for excessive ATM withdrawals in Thailand. He was doing some sort of small building project somewhere and had higher cash needs that the average Expat. I asked him how many withdrawals he had done, but he said he didn't keep track.

So, somewhere out there in the land of unknown thresholds is one that wakes up the ugly Schwab monster who quickly ends the party. Clearly, at least someone inside the Schwab labyrinth is aware of the exorbitant fees coming from Siam due to the Thai Bankers usury fee.

.

Obviously, I don't know what happened with that individual, or what exactly led to Schwab's decision.

But I do know this clearly:

1. Obviously, in any kind of ATM fee reimbursement situation, it's better for the cardholder to try to do fewer and larger amount withdrawals vs. more frequent and/or smaller amount ones. In other words, if you're going to ask your bank to pay $5 to reimburse your ATM fee, get the most you can for that money, whether it be 30,000 baht or whatever.

2. In that same spririt, it's likewise going to be safer and better from the cardholder's perspective to have SEVERAL different ATM fee reimbursing accounts at their disposal. That way, for example, you could use Account A for a withdrawal and fee reimbursement this month, but then use Account B for the same next month.

I also think we need to keep in mind that U.S. banks these days also are widely charging domestic customers ATM fees of $2 or $3 or more per withdrawal when the person is using a different bank or network's ATM. So from the fee reimbursing bank's end of things, it's not just international transactions that are generating reimbursements. There's a lot of fee activity going on domestically as well. So it's not like we're a little group all alone in the world on this subject.

Yea, this might have been putting Scbwab into the poor house doing ATM reimbursements. I'm sure no bank would ever admit to doing so, but I bet they do evaluate if they are losing money on a customer and if some good reason also exists, like they have figured out he no longer lives in the U.S., then they use that angle to close his account. Of course the bank knows it will lose some money on X-amount of customers but make money on the great majority of customers...and if a few customers are BIG money losers for the bank then I expect they check to see if there is anyway to offload that customer or switch him to another product...put him under the microscope so to speak. Probably much harder to do that on a customer living in his home country compared to the customer living outside the country.

And with computers now days they let the computers do all the grunt work...a quick human review would only be needed only to confirm what the computer found...and the computer said for this guy we are expending way too much on you Mr Customer through ATM reimbursements...and hey, by the way it appears you live outside the U.S. That's my guess and it's only a guess. To date, I've never had to get a reimbursement from Schwab due use of their debit card as I always used an AEON ATM when it didn't charge a fee. Maybe the moral of this story: don't eat too much of the Golden Reimbursement Goose...eat a small portion...don't over do it..

Edited February 16, 2014 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think that sounds right, Pib...

And it fits in with my general philosophy about expat banking:

It's best to try to stay under the radar and not do things that call unwanted special attention to your circumstances, if at all possible.

At least until, if and when, the legal rights of Americans living abroad to domestic banking services are clarified and strengthened against things like the Patriot Act, and U.S. banks can no longer so easily cancel or deny services to legitimate expat customers.

Edited February 16, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

If you have a safe place to store it, exchanging cash at the better money exchange outlets like the Green Super Rich or Vasa (in Bangkok) has once again become a viable way to save money converting money.

As has been mentioned many times before however, this is only practical if you are exchanging large amounts. It doesn't make sense to run all over the city to save a few baht on small transactions.

But you first have to get money over to you from your home country. Fine to do above if making short visits to Thailand and you brought along a lot of money to cover the time you would be in-country, but for folks staying long term they still need to get/replenish money from their home country and figure out the best/lowest cost way to get that money transferred over.

[JimGant]

I just tried my PenFed credit card in Lady AEON ATM...the Bt150 fee display still appeared...I canceled the transaction.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

Ditto on that here... NO JOY!!! This morning, I tried a PenFed Promise VISA credit card for cash advance in both a Bank of Ayudhya ATM and an AEON ATM.

Both accepted the notion of doing a credit card cash advance, but both also popped up 150b fee notifications on the ATM screens.

So Jim, our hopes of no-fee credit card cash advances at Thai bank ATMs seem to be dashed.

The other thing to note about this is, while many checking account-linked debit cards like Schwab, State Farm and others have features to reimburse ATM fees, I don't know of any U.S. credit card that reimburses ATM fees incurred when seeking cash advances. The best we know about are credit cards that simply don't charge extra fees themselves, but they don't reimburse the ATM fees from the other bank.

--------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, on the debit card front, since I was already there, I tried a U.S. MC-logo debit card at both the Ayudhya and AEON ATMs.

The Ayudhya ATMs are definitely are among those charging the 180b fee against U.S. MasterCard debit cards. But, as I mentioned previously, the AEON ATMs remain 150 baht, regardless of whether the debit card is VISA or MC logo.

Well, that's a bummer. I based the no ATM fee on a post here awhile back, where the poster bragged about how there's no 150 baht fee when doing a credit card cash advance at Thai ATM machines (he was subsequently educated on how the cash advance fee he paid was considerably more than the 150 baht he saved). But, of course, Thai ATM owners can charge whatever fees they like, against any and all transactions, for any set population. So, I guess now all transactions involving cash dispensing at Thai ATM machines -- by plastic issued by farang financial institutions -- incurs the 150 baht fee (I wonder if a cash advance by a MasterCard credit card would be charged 180 baht....?.)

John, the Bank of Ayudhya was famous a few years back for asking if you wanted your ATM transaction done in your home currency (i.e., Dynamic Currency Conversion). This was only for MasterCard/Cirrus cards. Did you experience a DCC offer with Bank of Ayudhya?

[JimGant]

Btw, last year, I did a number of Schwab DC counter withdrawals and those transactions also took several days to settle and get the rate.

Interesting. Maybe counter withdrawals with a debit/atm card are done in the "offline" mode, which is same as "credit/swipe and sign" mode -- and take a day or two longer than online (pin) mode. Did you swipe and sign -- or enter a pin? (If the latter, it should have been near real time, and posted same day. But that apparently is not what happened.) Maybe there is such a thing as a "pin, offline mode," but Professor Google can't seem to find it.

[Pib]

Well, that's a bummer. I based the no ATM fee on a post here awhile back, where the poster bragged about how there's no 150 baht fee when doing a credit card cash advance at Thai ATM machines (he was subsequently educated on how the cash advance fee he paid was considerably more than the 150 baht he saved).

Maybe he used an AEON ATM with no local ATM fee being charged then and he was also confused in thinking AEON ATMs was a Thai bank ATM....the Bank of AEON or something like that. Heck, when I first got here I thought AEON was some Thai bank until I found out they were really a finance/credit card Japanese company operating in Thailand.

[WBS2555]

that is bad news. Now AEON can watch a significant drop in ATM usage from farang's taking money out as there is no incentive anymore

I doubt they care. They weren't making ANY money on the transaction. So there was no incentive for them before to let us take money out.

actually you are wrong, when you use an atm with your foreign credit card, your bank do charge a fee( mine is 3% + 3 euro).

Then this fee are shared between your bank and the thai bank. SO AEN Bank get paid for their services.

Just now they want 150 baht more like the others thai bank, because in thailand its a common practise to fleece the farang.

Yes this is an extortion or an official scam!

When using an ATM to withdraw cash, it is much more expensive to use a credit card than a debit card. If you withdraw from an ATM using a credit card, you will typically be charged a cash advance fee of ~3% on top of foreign exchange fees.

In addition, most card issuers will start charging interest on your cash advance the day you withdraw money from an ATM (i.e., they won't give you a grace period) unless you have a credit balance on your account.

In addition, the interest rate for cash advances is generally much higher than for purchases. In most cases, cash advances are limited to a small portion of your overall credit line.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[UbonOz]

I zipped a few thousand dollars across the world yesterday using Bitcoin, transfer cost US$0.38. It arrived in 45 minutes.

How much was the Bitcoin valued then since the Bitcoin value has been fluctuating all over the map lately. See this news story which I also saw on CNN and BBC TV news a few days ago. Link

A little bit over US$6,000.

I was not spending, just transferring from one of my accounts to another.

I love to see it move so easily, no friction.

$6000 for a Bitcoin?! I thought it was down around $650 per Bitcoin right now? Maybe you meant to say $600 vs $6000...or you were talking the total amount you transferred? Link1 Link2

But hey, I'm like a caveman when it comes to knowledge on the Bitcoin. Cheers.

Under is a link to a short video explaining BitCoin. More relevant to Americans, but it is informative. Gives you an idea of what it is.

https://www.facebook.com/BitCoinThailand

No need for you to be a caveman.

[Naam]

$6000 for a Bitcoin?!

in the wet dreams of many Bitcoiners it's much more

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, that's a bummer. I based the no ATM fee on a post here awhile back, where the poster bragged about how there's no 150 baht fee when doing a credit card cash advance at Thai ATM machines (he was subsequently educated on how the cash advance fee he paid was considerably more than the 150 baht he saved). But, of course, Thai ATM owners can charge whatever fees they like, against any and all transactions, for any set population. So, I guess now all transactions involving cash dispensing at Thai ATM machines -- by plastic issued by farang financial institutions -- incurs the 150 baht fee (I wonder if a cash advance by a MasterCard credit card would be charged 180 baht....?.)

Well Jim, I'm not sure I'd make that all-encompassing kind of statement quite yet. We keep getting member reports here, sporadic and usually not well confirmed or replicated, claiming no-fee fee exceptions involving cards issued in various European or Asian countries.

Just here earlier in this thread, there was a French member with some kind of unusual Amex credit card that seemed to have some debit card elements to it who insisted he isn't charged any ATM fees here.

It's pretty hard to know whether those reports are simply inaccurate, or whether there are some kinds of fee exceptions that we don't clearly know or understand -- type of card, country of origin, issuing bank, etc.

It continues to be one of those head-scratcher things for me. But it does seem the Thai bank ATM fee is pretty well pervasive in the broader sense of things.

John, the Bank of Ayudhya was famous a few years back for asking if you wanted your ATM transaction done in your home currency (i.e., Dynamic Currency Conversion). This was only for MasterCard/Cirrus cards. Did you experience a DCC offer with Bank of Ayudhya?

Don't think my experience today is going to help answer that question. With my MC debit card, I keyed in my PIN, chose withdrawal and from what account, and then entered my desired amount. At that point, the ATM popped up the fee message, and I canceled out at that point.

I'm guessing, if I had accepted the fee and agreed to proceed with the transaction, it would have been at that at that point any question about DCC would have popped up. And I never got that far.

In my case today, I was using that MasterCard to do a test withdrawal to see if the issuing bank will reimburse foreign ATM fees (the account itself advertises reimbursing fees "nationwide" in the U.S., and the bank staff in phone conversation previously told me foreign fees would not be reimbursed, but they're not always accurate about those kinds of details.

So, since I was looking at the prospect ultimately paying the fee for the withdrawal myself, I decided to opt for doing my withdrawal later at AEON and accepting their 150b fee, and passing on Ayudhya and their 180 baht offer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Btw, last year, I did a number of Schwab DC counter withdrawals and those transactions also took several days to settle and get the rate.

Interesting. Maybe counter withdrawals with a debit/atm card are done in the "offline" mode, which is same as "credit/swipe and sign" mode -- and take a day or two longer than online (pin) mode. Did you swipe and sign -- or enter a pin? (If the latter, it should have been near real time, and posted same day. But that apparently is not what happened.) Maybe there is such a thing as a "pin, offline mode," but Professor Google can't seem to find it.

If I remember right from past reports here, there seems to be two distinctly different approaches to handling counter withdrawals by banks here...

One involves the swipe and sign approach using the card and an electronic reader/terminal there at the teller station. Those seem to get processed promptly. But then other members have talked about getting papers to fill out and sign, and those kinds of transactions sometimes taking a couple days to settle.

In all my years here, I've never done a counter withdrawal. But it's looking like I'll at least be trying some in the near future. Brave new world...

[Pib]

In all my years here, I've never done a counter withdrawal. But it's looking like I'll at least be trying some in the near future. Brave new world...

My counter withdrawal yesterday using my PenFed credit card was when I lost my debit/credit card "counter withdrawal virginity." I had only used my cards in machines or online. Once the counter transaction posts to my PenFed account in a few days I will know whether or not I want to come back for seconds or not. But like I have mentioned in my above posts I should be coming back since the card does not charge a foreign transaction or cash advance fee.

[Pib]

Under is a link to a short video explaining BitCoin. More relevant to Americans, but it is informative. Gives you an idea of what it is.

https://www.facebook.com/BitCoinThailand

No need for you to be a caveman.

Thanks...that video was very good....even a caveman could understand it. Sure helped me to better understand some of the things I been hearing about Bitcoin. Thanks again.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think we still have some fleshing out to do, in terms of understanding just to what extent the various Thai banks are or aren't willing to do DEBIT card counter withdrawals as opposed to the CREDIT card approach. And, if they are, will it mostly be only if the requested amounts are above normal ATM limits, or they'll do them even for smaller routine amounts.

I say that because, I suspect there's a much larger population of folks here who, at least, have debit cards that are capable of doing no foreign currency fee/no other fee debit card counter withdrawals -- if the banks will cooperate. Whereas I suspect the population of folks here who have access to home country credit cards with no FCF and no cash advance fee is much smaller. As we know, cash advance fees and high interest rates are pretty much the norm in the credit cards world.

Thus, I'd really like to hear more details from those members who have been doing regular DEBIT counter withdrawals in the past -- what bank companies, what kinds of amounts, etc etc. -- in terms of finding what kind of approaches will actually work.

-------------------

Also, I believe there's one other difference in the CREDIT card vs. DEBIT card approach we haven't yet discussed here. And that is, the growing tendency of credit card companies to panic and suspect fraud anytime they see foreign country charges, and the card user hasn't done an advance "I'm traveling abroad to XXXXXX country" notification.

As someone who's periodically been on the receiving end of credit card "charge denied" rejections, you're never quite sure when something is going to get flagged as suspected foreign fraud. And in most cases, credit card travel alerts are usually limited in the duration you can select. So I've never made a practice of continually renewing and extending travel alerts on my various credit cards, because I don't use them here all that often.

But, if I was going to start doing regular home country credit card cash advances out of Thailand, I'm a bit concerned how the various card issuers are going to respond to those in the absence of prior travel alert notifications. And then, if that was the case, you'd basically be telling the card issuers that you're perpetually outside the U.S. -- which probably is not a good message to send.

On the other hand, most of my debit card issuers don't seem overly concerned with the location of my purchases, and I've rarely if ever had a debit card POS purchase blocked here by my card issuers. And I don't think I've ever had to do a debit card travel notification. For that reason, among others, I'm inclined to try the DEBIT card approach first -- if I can find an approach with the Thai banks that's going to work.

[Pib]

I think with PenFed who has many military active duty, military retirees, active and retired federal civil servants, veterans, etc., stationed and living all over the world they will be less likely to be concerned about foreign transactions via debit or credit card...in fact, I expect a large number of their card customers are using the cards everyday outside the U.S.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hope you're right, Pib... I guess we're going to start finding out just how PenFed security will react to these kinds of things.

Also, I think you might be surprised about the makeup of Penfed's customer base. Despite their military affiliations, I have the impression that where they've really gained membership is through offering great CD deals over a long period of time that have become known and very popular with regular folks back home who might have no foreign travel or military connection whatsoever.

And, as I said, among those reading here right now, I suspect the population of potential debit card counter withdrawers is a lot larger than the PedFed credit card potential counter withdrawers.

[Pib]

Just an update on my post #239 regarding the success I had in using my PenFed Visa "credit card" to do a Bt50K counter withdrawal at a Bangkok Bank branch without any local bank fee. I just called PenFed to check on another issue and when the rep asked if I had any other questions I said Yea. I said I'm online with my PenFed account right now and the cash advance I done on Saturday here in Thailand is not reflecting yet and just wanted to know if he saw it yet and when I could see it....the rep said wait just a moment and he would check his "live/real time" system and yes a transaction is reflecting for $1548.79...and that matches within one penny of my $1548.80 estimate/rounding I gave in my post #239 where I used the Visa exchange rate in affect from noon Saturday to noon Sunday Thailand date/time. He also said it wasn't showing up as a cash advance but a purchase type action. He said I should be able to see the transaction on Monday or Tuesday which are the 1st and 2nd business days after the transaction...remember, weekends and holiday don't count as business days and credit card transactions take a day or two (or more) to settle.

The PenFed rep was very helpful...after hanging up I wish I had asked a few more questions but I'll get those answers in the coming days once the transaction posts and my funds transfer to pay for the cash advance post to the system so I can see them. Since I mentioned earlier it appears my incoming payment to pay off the cash advance will be effective approx 2 or 3 "calendar" days after the transaction I expect I'll end up paying a little less than $3 in cash advance interest but maybe the "type" code on this transaction is coded as a purchase vs cash advance and I would have until the next monthly statement payment due date to pay in full to avoid any interest...and the next closing cycle date on my card is not until early March...then I would have until almost the end of March to make payment to avoid any interest. But I can't be sure until the cash advance transaction posts and the incoming payment hit the system over the next few days and see how those two transactions offset each other

As mentioned in my earlier post this was a first time/test counter cash withdrawal which I ended up doing on a weekend to satisfy my curiosity (couldn't wait until Monday to begin satisfy my curiosity) fully knowing my payment would probably arrive a few days after the cash advance date. My next cash advance will have much better timing and I will probably have my credit card cash balance preloaded with a positive balance to slightly exceed the cash advance amount to take in account the Visa exchange rate that changes every 24 hours...just in case the rate goes down. So far, so good...no surprises yet (no to imply there won't be any).

[SurfRider]

.
"As someone who's periodically been on the receiving end of credit card "charge denied" rejections, you're never quite sure when something is going to get flagged as suspected foreign fraud"

I've been traveling and/or living in Asia for 35 years. Even though I always keep a Credit Card handy, I only use it in emergencies. In Thailand, my CCs reside in a locked safe in my home. I don't even carry them with me.

I use them occasionally for on-line transactions - either that or Pay-Pal. I've never felt comfortable using a CC in Asia - too much chance of fraud or identity theft. It's happened to several friends of mine.

A couple of months ago when tens of millions in personal CC data was stolen in the US via the Target Stores and Neiman-Marcus CC swipe gadgets, a study was done to try to determine exactly how it was done. One comment that I vividly recall from one of the security experts was that every time a CC is used, that data goes through 12 nodes during processing. He emphasized that each and every one of those 12 nodes could become a point along the trail where the data was compromised.

Kinda like handing your CC to a waiter in a restaurant who decides to do more with it than just process your check-bin. While he's away from your table he shares your information with 12 of his waiter friends-- just in case they might want to play that game also . . .
.

[pineconehead]

I think it is time (for this forum) to make a sticky for banking fees and to somehow separate the various banking "managing" methods by country. There is absolutely nothing wrong with retiree management skills for expats, but it would help up all if we could sort it out in a way that is usable and coherent.

.02, and fire away.

[MrWorldwide]

TMB (blue) ATM 30,000b max and 150b fee

Bangkok Bank (dark blue)25,000b max and 150b fee

AEON (grey/purple) 20,000b max and 150b fee

Kasikorn (green) 20,000b max and 150b fee

SCB (purple) 20,000b max

Kruengthai (light blue) 20,000b max

Ayutthaya (yellow) 30,000b max and 180b fee

GSB (pink) 20,000b max and they claimed their fee was only 100b but their ATM's won't take my card.

This is the kind of info I come to TV for - thank you so much for that.

[MrWorldwide]

. My home bank charges me USD $0.95 for a non-network ATM transaction fee, plus 1% of the total amount I withdrew (maybe Ray's is free for his home bank, but this is the fee I incur with my particular credit union). If I use this same card at a point-of-sale - like in Tesco or Big C, for example - it's done the same way: they swipe the card and I sign just like I would for a credit card purchase. When I purchase items in store like this, my credit union does *not* charge me the ATM transaction fee, so these types of debit transactions are free. If you require proof further than this, I'm afraid you'll have to meet me at the store and watch me buy something.

Kind regards,

WaatWang

Waatwang, I apologise for truncating your post, but I wanted to highlight the fact that you ARE being charged a fee for the over-the-counter withdrawal - this contradicts the claims made earlier in this thread and others around ATM fees in Thailand. On the equivalent of a 500USD withdrawal, you will pay 5.95USD in fees. That's still substantially better than the fees I've been slugged by the Commonwealth Bank here in Oz, but I have the cure and I look forward to using it in BKK and elsewhere. Game, set and match Citibank.

• Compare Australia's only completely fee free everyday bank account, Citibank Plus, against its competitors
• Instant access to your cash at over 3,000 Citibank, Westpac, St.George, BankSA and Bank of Melbourne ATMs throughout Australia
• Free international money transfers from Australia to any account, anywhere in the world
• Instant money transfers when sending funds overseas to another Citibank account using Citibank Global Transfers (CGT)1

I wish it worked this way with US CitiBank ATM cards. Several years back when Citibank began operating in Thailand I contacted Citibank in the US about opening an account so I could use the US issued ATM card at CitiBank machines in Thailand free of fees. It was quickly explained to me that the foreign branches of Citi, although owned by the same parent company are different banks and that I would be charged as if I was using a local (Thai) bank if I used the US CitiBank ATM card in Thailand (both ATM fee and international exchange fee). I told them to f- off and continued to use the AEON machines. Now it is obvious that the AEON option is gone now too. I believe I will now go back to using cash and travellers checks as I used to in the 80s and 90s. What a pathetic hassle.

As pointed out earlier, Citibank US and Citibank Australia also seem to be operating under different terms and conditions - I'll post further on this when I have bank statements in April/May to back up my claims.