Aeon Bank now charge 150 B ATM fee

[Langsuan Man]

I have already said....I have an American Express Credit card. I do not and have never paid the 150 baht when taking money out of an ATM. The only bank - as far as I know -that will not take an Amex is the Siam Bank.

What is the relationship with an Amex Credit Card and a bank ATM card ? At last report Amex was not chartered as a bank but as a credit card company

And exactly what does American Express Charge you for this cash advance that you are not paying 150 Baht for. Just because you are not paying the bank who owns the machine doesn't mean that it is free

[WaatWang]

Once again I do not buy goods with an ATM card I use my bank Debit card (which like a credit card can be used with a PIN at an ATM) I can use my Debit card exactly the same as my Credit Card for buying goods with my signature and 99% of the time I do not need to enter a PIN (sometimes it asks for a PIN but just tell them to wait 30 seconds and it goes through fine). Everything I am telling you is 100% true and I do it this way all of the time. DO not confuse a simple ATM card with a Debit card. Most ATM cards these days, unless you bank is living in the past, even Thai ones like Be First are both Debit cards and ATM cards and I can use my BeFirst Bangkok Bank Thai card for buying goods without a PIN too provided there is money in my account (rarely here) or else it will be rejected at the shop checkout.

Alright, so to resume, you have a debit card does not require a PIN, just signature, to make purchases in a foreign country. And, when inside a foreign bank (or something that is like a bank), can be used to extract cash from your account, again without a PIN.

All that given, would anyone call this "secure" ?

Note, while it's possible to make PINless purchases nowadays, that is called proximity technology, but requires your card to come with an RFID chip, and it works only in selected Point of Sales.

I will not digress on the supposed difference between debit and ATM cards, anyone one can read wikipedia on the matter. Perhaps is an UK only thing, for sure it does not exists into any other country. Proof, can anyone here walk to buy goods with a non-credit card, no PIN, and see if the transaction completes.

One word of warning be VERY careful of using your card PIN (credit or debit card) when buying goods as this is a well known scam along with cloning your card. If they insist on a PIN I will only use it if it is with a bank counter transaction or with a very reliable company when I have not taken my eyes off of my card. 99% of the time I do not have to use my PIN I assure you but good valid ID (Thai driving license or passport) is needed always at the bank counter for drawing cash (maybe PIN too sometimes) on either my credit card or debit card as they are both treated the same and subject to the normal card authorisation as all such transactions are same as shop checkout machines.

Event better, now according to you, "they" the scammers, are store owners with access to a bank retail network, but their actual business is to clone cards using legitimate Point of Sales machines. Again, proof ?

And finally, that inside the bank counter a PIN is required "maybe sometime" to withdraw? Nice to have certainities when it comes to banking and money!

I maybe wrong, but in my opinion is that a loophole exists, to allows one to get money from his foreign account at no cost, is nil.

Paz,

I don't know what home country you do your home banking in, but just want to chime in to back up Ray, who just seems like he's just trying to help out other users.

I am from the US and my money gets direct deposited to a credit union in the US. I have a debit card for that account - it has the Visa logo on it, but it's not a credit card, just a debit card. It does not have a smart chip in it, it just has my name printed on it. There is a pin associated with the account, and when I make a transaction, I can choose to *either* use the pin OR sign for the purchase. Either way, the money is directly debited from my checking account.

Unfortunately, my credit union has a block on it for Thai ATMs, so I can't put this card in any ATM in Thailand and withdraw money using my pin. However, for the last three+ years, I've been using the method Ray described every month. I go in the bank, swipe the debit card, they take a copy of my passport which I then sign, and they hand over the money with a smile. The exchange rates have been good. My home bank charges me USD $0.95 for a non-network ATM transaction fee, plus 1% of the total amount I withdrew (maybe Ray's is free for his home bank, but this is the fee I incur with my particular credit union). If I use this same card at a point-of-sale - like in Tesco or Big C, for example - it's done the same way: they swipe the card and I sign just like I would for a credit card purchase. When I purchase items in store like this, my credit union does *not* charge me the ATM transaction fee, so these types of debit transactions are free. If you require proof further than this, I'm afraid you'll have to meet me at the store and watch me buy something.

Kind regards,

WaatWang

Edited February 13, 2014 by WaatWang

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have already said....I have an American Express Credit card. I do not and have never paid the 150 baht when taking money out of an ATM. The only bank - as far as I know -that will not take an Amex is the Siam Bank.

If it's a credit card, then I presume you're paying a cash advance fee charged by Amex and probably a foreign currency fee as well when used outside the U.S. And Amex will start charging you cash advance interest from the date of your withdrawal.

Amex credit cards don't give away cash to their cardholders for free...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

However, for the last three+ years, I've been using the method Ray described every month. I go in the bank, swipe the debit card, they take a copy of my passport which I then sign, and they hand over the money with a smile. The exchange rates have been good. My home bank charges me USD $0.95 for a non-network ATM transaction fee, plus 1% of the total amount I withdrew (maybe Ray's is free for his home bank, but this is the fee I incur with my particular credit union).

What you're describing is what's generally known here as a "counter withdrawal" and yes, it can work with foreign VISA or MC logo debit cards just as you've described it.

There's no 150/180 baht Thai bank fee for doing counter withdrawals, but you typically do have to carry along your passport for the transaction.

And, one problem with them has been, not all Thai banks or branches are accommodating to do them. There have been members here who have reported being told by Thai bank staff to instead go out and use the bank's ATMs.

Also, more and more U.S. banks are adding counter withdrawal fees of their own, because U.S. customers in the U.S. have taken to doing them also,as a way to avoid the U.S. ATM fees that most banks charge customers who want to use some other bank company's card.

So, I guess I should ask, what Thai bank have you have a good reception from for doing counter withdrawals?

[WaatWang]

However, for the last three+ years, I've been using the method Ray described every month. I go in the bank, swipe the debit card, they take a copy of my passport which I then sign, and they hand over the money with a smile. The exchange rates have been good. My home bank charges me USD $0.95 for a non-network ATM transaction fee, plus 1% of the total amount I withdrew (maybe Ray's is free for his home bank, but this is the fee I incur with my particular credit union).

What you're describing is what's generally known here as a "counter withdrawal" and yes, it can work with foreign VISA or MC logo debit cards just as you've described it.

There's no 150/180 baht Thai bank fee for doing counter withdrawals, but you typically do have to carry along your passport for the transaction.

And, one problem with them has been, not all Thai banks or branches are accommodating to do them. There have been members here who have reported being told by Thai bank staff to instead go out and use the bank's ATMs.

Also, more and more U.S. banks are adding counter withdrawal fees of their own, because U.S. customers in the U.S. have taken to doing them also,as a way to avoid the U.S. ATM fees that most banks charge customers who want to use some other bank company's card.

So, I guess I should ask, what Thai bank have you have a good reception from for doing counter withdrawals?

I typically use SCB or krungsri. I have an account at SCB, so I prefer to do the withdrawl there and then deposit into the SCB account so I'm not carrying around so much cash. But often the lines at SCB are very long, and krungsri is faster.

I used to use Bangkok Bank when I first moved here, then as you mentioned they changed policy and would only do transactions with cards that had the smart chip. But I have also used KBank recently without any issues. I have not tried any of the other banks. For the record, I have done about 95% of these transactions in Pattaya, but the other 5% were up in the boonies of Issan. At these particular banks I've had no problems (knock on wood - may it continue!!).

[vagabond48]

I have only used Aeon ATM machines since the introduction of the 150B fee.

Can we begin listing the greedier banks that charge 180B rather than the less greedier 150B?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have only used Aeon ATM machines since the introduction of the 150B fee.

Can we begin listing the greedier banks that charge 180B rather than the less greedier 150B?

Huh??? What are you trying to get to, Vagabond? I'm not following this...

You want to know which of the Thai banks are charging the 180 baht fee on foreign MasterCards?

[Vit]

Maybe AEON will now return to their 40,000 THB per pull limit and soften this blow

Maybe not many people know, but the limit in the new style ATMs was 90,000 THB per withdraw..

Once when my card was suspended by bank and I couldn't withdraw any amount the staff told me that the limit is 10,000 THB

[reflectionx]

Keep in mind that the exchange rate is applied on the day the transaction is POSTED to your account, not at the day the transaction was done. It usually takes 1-2 days for me to get it on my no forex fee Chase visa, so there is no way to predict what the exact rate would be. SOMETIMES "LIUN", SOMETIMES WIN:

Actually the rate applied is the one of the day before the transaction as published on visa / MC websites.

Once I was taught that, I re-did the math for all my withdrawals and numbers squared perfectly.

All my credit card agreement explicitly states that the forex rate in use is the one on the day the transaction ia postes to my accounts. But this is in Canada, not aure how it works in other countries.

Sent via the app thingy

[vagabond48]

I have only used Aeon ATM machines since the introduction of the 150B fee.

Can we begin listing the greedier banks that charge 180B rather than the less greedier 150B?

Huh??? What are you trying to get to, Vagabond? I'm not following this...

You want to know which of the Thai banks are charging the 180 baht fee on foreign MasterCards?

I have read on TV that some banks are now charging 180B for DC ATM withdrawals so I was asking if people would share which banks those are,

This would be for Visa and MasterCards DCs.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Vagabond, AFAIK, the 180 baht withdrawal fee is only being charged against foreign MasterCard logo debit cards -- not VISA cards.

I'm not sure if all or most or many of the Thai retail banks are charging the 180 baht fee on MC withdrawals, since until now, I've never paid any fee for the longest of times, and I generally try to avoid using MC logo cards at all because of their lower exchange rate vs. VISA.

However, as I noted above, I can confirm that as of today, at least AEON and Citibank in BKK are NOT charging the 180 baht amount against MasterCards. With those two's ATMs, it's 150 baht regardless of whether a VISA or MC is used...at least for U.S. cards.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Maybe AEON will now return to their 40,000 THB per pull limit and soften this blow

Maybe not many people know, but the limit in the new style ATMs was 90,000 THB per withdraw..

Once when my card was suspended by bank and I couldn't withdraw any amount the staff told me that the limit is 10,000 THB

There usually are two different limits that come into play:

One is the limit on maximum number of bills dispensed by the Thai ATM being used. AEON used to have a very high, perhaps the highest limit, but recently cut that to 20,000 baht (in their case 20 1000 baht bills) per withdrawal. AEON ATMs, unlike Thai banks, don't dispense 100 or 500 baht notes.

The other is the limit that your home country bank has on ATM withdrawals using your debit card. Most banks set a maximum amount of U.S. $ that can be withdrawn per 24 hour period. Typical limits range between $300 and $1000 per day.

So, when going to the ATM, you have to be aware of the daily limit on ATM withdrawals set by the bank that issued your card, and then also the per withdrawal limit set by the Thai ATM. If your card's limit is higher, then obviously you can always do back to back withdrawals at the Thai ATM, since their limits on foreign cards are only per withdrawal, not per day.

But, for example, if your card had a $500 daily ATM withdrawal limit, which is roughly 15,000 baht, you'd still only be able to withdraw 15,000 baht in one day from an AEON ATM, even though the ATM machine itself is capable of doing 20,000 per transaction. The lower daily limit set by your card/bank would prevail.

I believe all the Thai bank ATMs are capable of dispensing at least 20 bills per transaction, and some banks, reportedly Bank of Ayudhya and CIMB, will do 30,000 per withdrawal. Of course, if a particular ATM runs out of 1000 baht bills, it will default down to 500 baht or even 100 baht bills, and you'll end up getting even less funds.

Edited February 13, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[paz]

Keep in mind that the exchange rate is applied on the day the transaction is POSTED to your account, not at the day the transaction was done. It usually takes 1-2 days for me to get it on my no forex fee Chase visa, so there is no way to predict what the exact rate would be. SOMETIMES "LIUN", SOMETIMES WIN:

Actually the rate applied is the one of the day before the transaction as published on visa / MC websites.

Once I was taught that, I re-did the math for all my withdrawals and numbers squared perfectly.

All my credit card agreement explicitly states that the forex rate in use is the one on the day the transaction ia postes to my accounts. But this is in Canada, not aure how it works in other countries.

you can do the math yourself and report here.

Note that for debit card transactions the amount is immediately established and deducted. The bank cannot wait for the trading day to finish.

Edited February 13, 2014 by paz

[elzach]

By the way people...banks are in business ...to make money... go figure. What do they gain from free service to non members. dooooh

Yes, but here in Thailand in terms of the 150-180 baht withdrawal fees on foreign bank cards, there's monopolistic collusion, not the normal compeition that would exist in the business world.

Here, the Thai Bankers Assn. got together some years ago and decided as a group made up of all the Thai commercial banks to impose the 150 baht fee, whereas before, I believe, there hadn't been any fee at all.

By comparsison, think about your home countries. How many come from a situation where every single bank in the country charges exactly the same ATM fee? In a normal marketplace, banks compete on fees. Here, when it comes to foreigners and quite a few other things like fees and interest rates, they don't.

No one's begrudging the need for banks as businesses to make money. But they ought to be competing to do so, not colluding, which would earn them a criminal prosecution in a lot of other places. I wouldn't mind paying a fee to support the banks' use of ATMs, just like the 10 or 20 baht fees paid by Thais. But 150 to 180 baht per withdrawal...amounts that bear no connection to the banks actual costs???

And BTW, think back to when ATMs arrived on the banking scene: they were heralded in part as a way for the banks to SAVE money/CUT costs because they're more efficient and less expensive than having human bank staff perform all the same functions. The 150-180 baht ATM fees on foreign cards are just another local ripoff, one among many.

Exactly. ALSO, can anyone think of any other Asian country where they charge the equivalent of $5 or $6 at the local ATM?

The ones I know about (feel free to add):

China, no fee, at any bank

Philippines, most banks a fee of about $2-3 I believe, but at Citi and HSBC free

Vietnam, some fee by most VN banks, but at Standard Chartered and HSBC free

Korea, as of 2011 I don't remember being charged a fee at any bank

Here it's the common Thai attitude in play, "the foreigners will pay any way"....

[youbuyshirt]

Someone said that to do a counter withdrawal inside a bank, the amount must be higher than the maximum amount you can withdraw at the ATM.

Is this true? Can others verify? You can't just make a small withdrawal like 2000 baht inside the bank?

Also, FalangBaa and RayW, thanks for the info that you can also withdraw using a debit card at Money Exchange Booths. Can others verify this also? And can you do this at SuperRich?

One of the things they are doing with these outrageous per-transaction fees is they are forcing us to withdraw large sums that make us vulnerable to street robbery. Or to bring large sums on our trips to avoid the fees, same problem with robbery.

To those who seek to justify these gouging fees, remember that banks are routinely bailed out by our governments using our tax money. Since they are so often publicly supported, their fees should be legally limited to reasonable amounts.

Edited February 13, 2014 by youbuyshirt

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Someone said that to do a counter withdrawal inside a bank, the amount must be higher than the maximum amount you can withdraw at the ATM.

Is this true? Can others verify? You can't just make a small withdrawal like 2000 baht inside the bank?

I've never heard that before. And I'd think it's unlikely, since all Thai ATMs are capable of dispensing at least 20,000 baht per withdrawal.

But, I have heard of some banks telling customers who wanted to do counter withdrawals to go and use their ATMs instead. YMMV.

About SuperRich, that's an interesting question. I've never heard anyone talk about doing a counter withdrawal via debit card at Vasu or SuperRich. But I haven't heard anyone say they were denied either. Anyone have any experience about that???

[MrWorldwide]

. My home bank charges me USD $0.95 for a non-network ATM transaction fee, plus 1% of the total amount I withdrew (maybe Ray's is free for his home bank, but this is the fee I incur with my particular credit union). If I use this same card at a point-of-sale - like in Tesco or Big C, for example - it's done the same way: they swipe the card and I sign just like I would for a credit card purchase. When I purchase items in store like this, my credit union does *not* charge me the ATM transaction fee, so these types of debit transactions are free. If you require proof further than this, I'm afraid you'll have to meet me at the store and watch me buy something.

Kind regards,

WaatWang

Waatwang, I apologise for truncating your post, but I wanted to highlight the fact that you ARE being charged a fee for the over-the-counter withdrawal - this contradicts the claims made earlier in this thread and others around ATM fees in Thailand. On the equivalent of a 500USD withdrawal, you will pay 5.95USD in fees. That's still substantially better than the fees I've been slugged by the Commonwealth Bank here in Oz, but I have the cure and I look forward to using it in BKK and elsewhere. Game, set and match Citibank.

• Compare Australia's only completely fee free everyday bank account, Citibank Plus, against its competitors
• Instant access to your cash at over 3,000 Citibank, Westpac, St.George, BankSA and Bank of Melbourne ATMs throughout Australia
• Free international money transfers from Australia to any account, anywhere in the world
• Instant money transfers when sending funds overseas to another Citibank account using Citibank Global Transfers (CGT)1

[MrWorldwide]

Someone said that to do a counter withdrawal inside a bank, the amount must be higher than the maximum amount you can withdraw at the ATM.

Is this true? Can others verify? You can't just make a small withdrawal like 2000 baht inside the bank?

Also, FalangBaa and RayW, thanks for the info that you can also withdraw using a debit card at Money Exchange Booths. Can others verify this also? And can you do this at SuperRich?

One of the things they are doing with these outrageous per-transaction fees is they are forcing us to withdraw large sums that make us vulnerable to street robbery. Or to bring large sums on our trips to avoid the fees, same problem with robbery.

To those who seek to justify these gouging fees, remember that banks are routinely bailed out by our governments using our tax money. Since they are so often publicly supported, their fees should be legally limited to reasonable amounts.

And that is exactly what is happening as part of a class action lawsuit over credit card fees here in Australia.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/anz-bank-fees-could-class-action-lawsuit-could-hit-other-big-lenders/story-fni0dcne-1226773486741

As for banks seeking bailouts, thankfully that hasn't been our experience here in Oz. I wonder how many European banks made this kind of profit from a population of ~25 million in the last 6 months ?

http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8798180/cba-half-yearly-profit-up-14

Personally, I dont have a problem with them making huge profits - a strong banking sector shielded Oz from GFC MkI - but their fees are ludicrous. I dont know of any bank - even the so-called 'community banks' - that isnt in the game to make money, but there is a point where it becomes farcical to turn a 25 cent admin fee into a $45 charge to the customer.

[Ticketmaster]

Don't know if it will do any good, but can't hurt; I took advice above and sent the following e-mail to Aeon:

Dear AEON,

I am not happy about the new 150 baht ATM fee. I was not happy when AEON instituted a 20,000 baht per transaction limit. As long as these policies are in place, I will no longer use AEON. If AEON either: (1) cuts the fee to 50 baht; or; (2) raises its per transaction limit to 50,000 baht, I would continue using its services.

A formerly happy customer,

My Name

that will make them sit up!

Or, maybe throw up!

[isawasnake]

I think it is time to start thinking about the best ways to carry maximum amounts of cash into Thailand. 10k is the max, 20k with a party of 2.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

. My home bank charges me USD $0.95 for a non-network ATM transaction fee, plus 1% of the total amount I withdrew (maybe Ray's is free for his home bank, but this is the fee I incur with my particular credit union). If I use this same card at a point-of-sale - like in Tesco or Big C, for example - it's done the same way: they swipe the card and I sign just like I would for a credit card purchase. When I purchase items in store like this, my credit union does *not* charge me the ATM transaction fee, so these types of debit transactions are free. If you require proof further than this, I'm afraid you'll have to meet me at the store and watch me buy something.

Kind regards,

WaatWang

Waatwang, I apologise for truncating your post, but I wanted to highlight the fact that you ARE being charged a fee for the over-the-counter withdrawal - this contradicts the claims made earlier in this thread and others around ATM fees in Thailand. On the equivalent of a 500USD withdrawal, you will pay 5.95USD in fees.

There are two different issues here with counter withdrawals:

1. It is correct that the THAI banks don't charge a fee for so-called counter withdrawals, unlike their 150 or 180 baht ATM withdrawal fees for foreign cards.

2. But it's also correct that some home country banks charge their own fee when you try to do a counter withdrawal at any OTHER bank, and likewise often charge a fee for ANY international transaction, ATM POS or otherwise.

------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, as for the Citibank AUS account, I'd be careful to check about what foreign currency conversion fee Citibank may charge when you try to withdraw money from a Citibank ATM in another country, or send money internationally via their xfer system.

Perhaps it's different for AUS accounts. But when Citibank U.S. customers try to withdraw money from Citibank ATMs in Thailand, they're hit by a foreign currency fee that I believe is 3%. See the example in this related post in a different thread.

From reading the Citibank Plus AUS fees pdf document, I can't tell clearly about their fees situation for the PLUS account. But I do see that Thailand is NOT one of the eligible countries to send funds to via Citi's Global Transfers method for Citibank to Citibank international transfers.

Edited February 14, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[vagabond48]

Vagabond, AFAIK, the 180 baht withdrawal fee is only being charged against foreign MasterCard logo debit cards -- not VISA cards.

I'm not sure if all or most or many of the Thai retail banks are charging the 180 baht fee on MC withdrawals, since until now, I've never paid any fee for the longest of times, and I generally try to avoid using MC logo cards at all because of their lower exchange rate vs. VISA.

However, as I noted above, I can confirm that as of today, at least AEON and Citibank in BKK are NOT charging the 180 baht amount against MasterCards. With those two's ATMs, it's 150 baht regardless of whether a VISA or MC is used...at least for U.S. cards.

Thanks. All my DCs are with Visa so I guess at this point, I can expect the 150B fee.

Yes, I am aware of the slightly lower exchange rate from MC so I guess with the possible higher 180B ATM fee, MC DC holders may get hit with a double whammy.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have already said....I have an American Express Credit card. I do not and have never paid the 150 baht when taking money out of an ATM. The only bank - as far as I know -that will not take an Amex is the Siam Bank.

If it's a credit card, then I presume you're paying a cash advance fee charged by Amex and probably a foreign currency fee as well when used outside the U.S. And Amex will start charging you cash advance interest from the date of your withdrawal.

Amex credit cards don't give away cash to their cardholders for free...

I just checked the U.S. American Express website, and, according to their info:

--their cards have a 2.7% foreign currency exchange fee, and

--for cards that allow cash advances, the additional cash advance fee is 3%, with a minimum charge of $5.

Thus, I wouldn't make a habit of obtaining my cash that way.

[MrWorldwide]

. My home bank charges me USD $0.95 for a non-network ATM transaction fee, plus 1% of the total amount I withdrew (maybe Ray's is free for his home bank, but this is the fee I incur with my particular credit union). If I use this same card at a point-of-sale - like in Tesco or Big C, for example - it's done the same way: they swipe the card and I sign just like I would for a credit card purchase. When I purchase items in store like this, my credit union does *not* charge me the ATM transaction fee, so these types of debit transactions are free. If you require proof further than this, I'm afraid you'll have to meet me at the store and watch me buy something.

Kind regards,

WaatWang

Waatwang, I apologise for truncating your post, but I wanted to highlight the fact that you ARE being charged a fee for the over-the-counter withdrawal - this contradicts the claims made earlier in this thread and others around ATM fees in Thailand. On the equivalent of a 500USD withdrawal, you will pay 5.95USD in fees.

There are two different issues here with counter withdrawals:

1. It is correct that the THAI banks don't charge a fee for so-called counter withdrawals, unlike their 150 or 180 baht ATM withdrawal fees for foreign cards.

2. But it's also correct that some home country banks charge their own fee when you try to do a counter withdrawal at any OTHER bank, and likewise often charge a fee for ANY international transaction, ATM POS or otherwise.

------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, as for the Citibank AUS account, I'd be careful to check about what foreign currency conversion fee Citibank may charge when you try to withdraw money from a Citibank ATM in another country, or send money internationally via their xfer system.

Perhaps it's different for AUS accounts. But when Citibank U.S. customers try to withdraw money from Citibank ATMs in Thailand, they're hit by a foreign currency fee that I believe is 3%. See the example in this related post in a different thread.

From reading the Citibank Plus AUS fees pdf document, I can't tell clearly about their fees situation for the PLUS account. But I do see that Thailand is NOT one of the eligible countries to send funds to via Citi's Global Transfers method for Citibank to Citibank international transfers.

Had a feeling this would be raised. I can't link to the thread on my Australian forum, but there is a monster thread on this account specifically for overseas travellers and not one Australian reports having been hit with a fee by Citibank for using their card overseas - as for the currency conversion, it's done by VISA.

http://theinquiringinvestor.com/2013/10/07/how-does-visa-calculate-its-currency-exchange-rate/

Note that the account in question is marketed specifically to Australians who want to avoid fees when using ATMs overseas - I can only assume that it's a blatant grab for the hearts and minds of young Australians. Citibank may be huge in the US, but here their operations are limited to online applications and a few brick-and-mortar branches : absolutely no comparison with the big banks here in Oz and I guess they have to work harder to get customers.

[iang]

The solution is simple - it just takes a few minutes longer. Just go into the bank with your passport & foreign credit/debit card & ask for a cash advance on your credit card. The trick is that the sum being requested must be higher than the ATM's usual maximum advance (THB 20,000?).

The bank does the paperwork, gets the authorisation, copies your passport (which you also sign) and the bank give you the cash. Best thing is that there's no fees! Not a single Baht & you get personalised service as part if the deal

Please make triple sure that your international bank will not charge you a % for doing this.

The local charge against my foreign bank account is exactly the same for an over the counter bank transaction - 100% identical, as if I'd have used a Thai ATM machine for the transaction - except for the Baht 150 Thai ATM fee of course. In fairness though, my foreign bank will levy a charge of approx THB120 per transaction, but this THB120 fee is regardless of whether the debit hits my account from a Thai ATM or from an over the counter 'cash advance' transaction. The other thing to consider is that my foreign account (attached to in this case a Visa card), is a debit account which has a Visa card attached to it. So when the so called 'cash advance' debit hits my account, it's debited against funds on deposit in the account, so accrues no interest or overdraft charges. So my advise would be to set up a debit style account, with a credit card attached to it & save money in the process!

[JusMe]

Don't know if it will do any good, but can't hurt; I took advice above and sent the following e-mail to Aeon:

Dear AEON,

I am not happy about the new 150 baht ATM fee. I was not happy when AEON instituted a 20,000 baht per transaction limit. As long as these policies are in place, I will no longer use AEON. If AEON either: (1) cuts the fee to 50 baht; or; (2) raises its per transaction limit to 50,000 baht, I would continue using its services.

A formerly happy customer,

My Name

I wrote a similar email to them, objecting to the new fee particularly as they'd reduced the maximum transaction withdrawal.

I got an email response which politely pointed me to their announcement of exactly what I'd been complaining about.

Now there's a significant response, eh? I did clearly tell them that I was no longer a loyal customer. Unlikely they care very much.

Edit spelling

Edited February 14, 2014 by JusMe

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Had a feeling this would be raised. I can't link to the thread on my Australian forum, but there is a monster thread on this account specifically for overseas travellers and not one Australian reports having been hit with a fee by Citibank for using their card overseas - as for the currency conversion, it's done by VISA.

http://theinquiringinvestor.com/2013/10/07/how-does-visa-calculate-its-currency-exchange-rate/

Note that the account in question is marketed specifically to Australians who want to avoid fees when using ATMs overseas - I can only assume that it's a blatant grab for the hearts and minds of young Australians. Citibank may be huge in the US, but here their operations are limited to online applications and a few brick-and-mortar branches : absolutely no comparison with the big banks here in Oz and I guess they have to work harder to get customers.

Glad to hear that... Hope it is as it's portrayed to be, and there are no "gotcha's".

Forgive me for being a little suspicious, because Citibank has no track record of being particularly friendly to international travelers in terms of their banking practices.

Also, I checked the Citi U.S. website this morning, and couldn't find anything remotely resembling the terms of the AUS account you're planning to use. Wish Citi U.S. did offer such an account.

[Pib]

Why use ATMs anyway? Just take your bank card and passport to any major bank and you don't even have to go inside the bank, just go to the money exchange window on the street, takes about 1 minute, the teller inserts your card in a machine and charges it for any amount you want (up to whatever is available in your account) and you sign a paper, depending on the card type you may or may not have to enter your PIN, then they hand you the cash. No fee whatsoever and no limit on the withdrawal amount. I have taken out up to 100,000 baht on several occasions.

Yes, but I reckon that most ATM users find dealing face-to-face with people, especially Thai people, all a bit of a social challenge, hence being all orgasmic about AEON's fee-free ATMs.

Now they are in serious mourning as well as finding their interpersonal skills are somewhat lacking.

I agree...I much prefer standing in a bank queue line only during their daylight operating hours to have cerebral intercourse with a bank clerk and hoping the clerk don't say No and instead just point me to their ATM. That's a much better orgasmic experience than just pressing an ATM's buttons day or night, most anywhere, 24/7, a quick & easy "Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am" type experience.

Ok, I decided to go have cerebral intercourse at with a bank teller to do an over the counter withdrawal using one of my U.S. no foreign transaction fee "debit" cards which has a daily transaction/per tranaction limit of $1,000USD or almost Bt33,000. I left completely unsatisfied...on orgasmic experience at all.

I went to a Bangkok Bank branch over here in western Bangkok...it was a large branch with 10 teller positions, bunches of reps at desks working customer issues, etc. While waiting for my queue number to be called I filled out a deposit slip to deposit the withdrawn funds directly into my Bangkok Bank savings account...see I'm thinking positive here. My queue number was called...I handed the teller my U.S. debit card, passport, and passbook...then said I wanted to withdraw Bt30K using my debit card and immediately deposit those funds to my account...she understood...no problem in communications.

She took the debit card and passport to make a copy of the passport (left the passbook laying next to here keyboard unopened) but in about 30 seconds when she came back she came back with her supervisor in-tow. I was then told I "can not" use the debit card to do an over-the-counter withdrawal/cash advance and pointed me to their ATM. She said they can only do it for "credit" cards. I then asked again can you please try to do the counter withdrawal using the debit card and was once again told "can not", they can only do it for a "credit" card, and then once again pointed me to their ATM.

Both reps were very professional and polite in telling me "can not" and I was very polite during the whole conversation. Now maybe their "can not" response really meant it's the branch's policy not to accept debit cards for over the counter withdrawals versus it's just impossible to use a debit card that way. My gut tells me it was just the branch's policy or maybe recent Bangkok Bank policy....I can't say for sure....I'm guessing. Oh how this made me miss my Wham-Bam Thank You Ma'am type affair I routinely had with my AEON ATM.

I'll probably give another Bangkok Bank branch a try over the coming weeks to see what happens. The branch I used today was not "my" branch so to speak which is the Silom branch in the HQ Bangkok Bank building on Silom Rd in central Bangkok (too far away from where I live in western Bangkok to visit frequently...plus I try to avoid central/highrise Bangkok as much as possible due the traffic/parking challenges). Additionally, the branch I used today never opened my passbook so they wouldn't have known if I had an account with their branch or not...as mentioned, the teller left it laying next to her keyboard the whole time we where having cerebral intercourse regarding use of the debit card for a over the counter withdrawal. Once again, they were prepared to accomplish the transaction for a credit card, but not a debit card...they just pointed me to their ATM.

Now, I have seen ThaiVisa posts were people have apparently had success in doing over the counter withdrawals with debit cards. But many of the posts I've seen where they said they had success in using their "card" for a over the counter/cash advance "did not" specify if they were using a debit card or credit card. For me, I could have flipped out one my credit cards and continued with the withdrawal but I would have had to be in serious need of money or didn't care about credit card cash advance fees that usually run around 3%....or I had a credit card that didn't apply a cash advance fee (they are out there...I know of one I could get).

So for you folks who have personally had success in doing an over the counter withdrawal/cash advance I would be very interested to hear which bank & branch you used and whether you used a debit card or credit card,..repeat, whether you used a debit card or a credit card. And it would be nice if you would disclose the associated fees you might have incurred using the card to do a cash advance.

[joealx]

I had the same problem in Rayong with TMB bank at the Lamhtong mall, then I went to Siam bank next door- "Sorry you don't have (EMV) chip". Kasakorn, the machine refused. I didn't try Bangkok Bank because the Rayong main office is where I have my account and it was OK there last week.

I'm going to try some main branches next week!

[Pib]

I had the same problem in Rayong with TMB bank at the Lamhtong mall, then I went to Siam bank next door- "Sorry you don't have (EMV) chip". Kasakorn, the machine refused. I didn't try Bangkok Bank because the Rayong main office is where I have my account and it was OK there last week.

I'm going to try some main branches next week!

Just to confirm....you were using a debt card or a credit card? I expect you mean debit card but I just want to be sure. Thanks.