My inlaws...

[wym]

In order to get my ex to agree to full custody, I had to promise her that any suitor of our daughter would have to ask her for permission to marry her, and that she would get the sin sot.

Our daughter was two at the time.

That makes me feel like puking.... :-(

If you find that surprising you don't understand Thainess very well.

I wasn't surprised at all, in fact very relieved I was able to get them so cheap.

----------

When those are the stakes, you do what it takes to get the end result you're after.

Now here's a good ethical debate question - should I renege on that promise when the time comes?

Hopefully a couple of decades before the question arises, maybe she'll be more western by then, since she plans on moving stateside soon. . .

As a farang father if you can agree in any way shape or form to sin sot, then you are a very weird bloke.

My daughter will marry who she loves and will be utterly free from obligation to stay with her husband if he let's her down. Sin sot is an abomination. It is not some quaint old custom and as a western dad, I will not take one satang.

I thought I was clear that I'm not interested in sin sot myself - although I don't have any problem with the custom itself if she were to be courted within a Thai cultural context.

If I hadn't made this promise to her mother I would have had a lot of trouble getting custody, being very poor at the time perhaps wouldn't have got it at all, so I made the promise.

Now with a bit more time and distance I would entertain reneging on it.

I think it would have been ethically suspect to knowingly make a false promise at that time, but perhaps justified by circumstances.

From my own POV, the ethical thing to do is to keep that promise, since that was my intention at the time.

Not actually asking for advise, just putting it out there for the sake of an interesting discussion.

Edited February 15, 2014 by wym

[Straight8]

Yes.....but it really does not seem to help.....they really really love those lovely sweet girls of mine......what is love at least through their eyes. Thats the worrying thing....an unbreakable wall....from distance....

Well of course they bloody well love them.

Frankly, mate, you sound seriously confused and as such, you're no good to anyone.

Rocking up on TVF looking from advice from a demographic that largely grubs around at the bottom of the socio-economic barrel for their lady friends is counter-productive as evidenced by the cynical and contemptuous suggestions that your wife and her sister are so cheap, you could buy your kids back for 100k each.

I don't know what your professional or financial status is but I'm assuming that you would be here living in Phuket with your wife and kids if you could afford to do so. The thing is, I suspect you wouldn't be able to afford to look after all of them if they lived with you in Europe.

Is that the case?

Well....money is ur only parameter apparantly in life....good for u. Very good.

Ofcourse i can take care of them.....want to remind u as well......children are not dolls 1 can toss from one to another to take care when it suits them. They have a father and a mother.....if my wife would have wanted kids to be raised in her family she should have shagged a familymember.....right ?

Your problem is, you come here looking for advice but go on the defensive with any reply not remotely to your liking, that I can understand, but being objective, those replies that sound the harshest and normally the "home run" winners.

I do sympathise with your situation, as I do with what happens to many farangs in similar situations, you deserve so much better from where I am sitting, however as with anything in life you didn't plan well for this, you didn't take control when you were suppose to, you didn't let you wife [and especially her immediate family] know who is boss and the father. It seems they saw you as a weak indiviual who used and are using the kids as a means to suck every ounce of baht out of you, hence probably a good part of the reason you are in right now.

Once again, from what you say you are definitely getting a raw deal, but do they care? They don't and they probably never did. That's Thainess!!!!

I do wish in the end you get you kids back, but as some replies state, you need to harden up and take some drastic measures, otherwise you will always be seen the them as their personal ATM using the kids in the process.

Best of luck

[Straight8]

What on earth did you expect? How did you let it come to this? Nobody to blame but yourself if the facts are that your wife is away working in Phuket and you allowed your kids to be comandeered by their auntie. Good thing you are not a sailor or you'd be blown all over the ocean while you did nothing. Sorry, but sympathy is for those that proactively manage their lives and the lives of their children. For what it's worth, though, it is not uncommon for Thai wives to turn kids silently against their non-Thai dads (maybe even Thai dads, who knows?), all the while smiling and playing the role whilst waiting for the opportunity to own the farm.

Obviously you don't know much about Thai women or Thai law. First off many Thai women, from the lower echelons, do not have much motherly instinct and DO look at children as a money source both from the foreign fathers who have compassion and feelings - whereas most Thai men are happy to move on whoring and drinking so give the women what they deserve which is nothing but sadly don't seem to give a darn about the kids who are the ones who suffer. Thai law is made to deal with kids on the basis of what is best for them and from my personal experience they do try to do that. Thai law favour the mother as having more care for the kids which Thai to Thai is probably right, Thai to Foreign depends on the situation as from what I have seen the percentages of foreign fathers caring about their kids exceeds that of Thai fathers.

Also you have to understand that circumstances do not always let you do what you want to do or even what you know is your duty to do. The Thai wife in this case has authority over the kids so if the guy tries to run off with them the police will get involved and we all know the outcome of that. The OP really had little choice actually but could have managed things better and prepared better for the daft he knew he would have to leave. Then of course there is the usual deceit from the mother when the OP suggested that he would go ahead to his home country with a plan for the wife and kids to follow. She goes along with it, he sends money in the interim until it becomes obvious she just blew smoke up his ass and had no intention of following on, just delaying the cessation of money. Deceitful but pretty normal for a Thai women so far as I have seen at least in the majority who are so unbelievably deceitful, selfish and forget ethics!

The OP followed the path that looked right at the time but which really was doomed to failure if there was a better understanding on behalf of the OP. The fact that the wife is now 'working' in Phuket sums up her class and that she leaves the kids with the people she has reinforces it.

Stop the money my friend, regroup yourself and fight for your kids any way you can. Get money and try the courts given she clearly not look after the kids but then you have to show very clearly that you CAN look after them because the courts begin on the side of the woman, unreasonably so.

I understand your situation as I gave been through the grinder here and still am going through it. Keep fighting because if you give up then you gave to live with that decision the rest of your life.

I would imagine some of the anti posters here gave no kids or no understanding outside their own sad reality. You have made some bad mistakes but we are all human aren't we? It sad we are not as all knowing and experienced as the members of ThaiVisa.

Good luck!

Although I agree with what you say in part, but "stop the money" then "keep fighting"

Unfortunately the OP is a foreigner, fighting for custody of his half thai children from a Thai mother in Thailand. Good luck with that fight.

Unless he has very deep pockets, to buy his kids back, [sadly a good percentage of thai's would probably sell their kinds without a second thought if the price is right].... it's game over already.

Don't even try to be logical or rational with them, straight over the top of the heads!!

[wym]

Although I agree with what you say in part, but "stop the money" then "keep fighting"

Unfortunately the OP is a foreigner, fighting for custody of his half thai children from a Thai mother in Thailand. Good luck with that fight.

Unless he has very deep pockets, to buy his kids back, [sadly a good percentage of thai's would probably sell their kinds without a second thought if the price is right].... it's game over already.

Don't even try to be logical or rational with them, straight over the top of the heads!!

Absolutely WRONG

Almost everyone in Thailand would agree that LK kids are better off heading home with Daddy.

Especially a judge when evidence for the actual circumstances of the mother's lifestle is demonstrated.

And this often goes for the wife and her family as well, they may be reluctant to give up their cash cow but believe it or not SOME do actually care for the best interest of the kids.

Yes of course you have to compensate them to do the right thing, but it doesn't have to be much, especially if they know the father isn't wealthy, they can be very realistic.

And it doesn't take much to do it "the hard way" either, nor to get the cops on your side.

I speak all of the above from hard-won experience, don't spread such defeatist nonsense when the stakes are so high.

[Lockheed]

So the only thing that is stopping you from be with your kids is the mother of the kids? If money is no object why don't you move next to your kids?

For many Thais, they want the children to be with their parents. Why would your SIL take care of your kids if it is not for wanting to help you and your ex? At the end of the day, the in laws love the children. On the other hand, you and your ex have some serious issue. Why would your ex suddenly take your kids to SIL without informed you? Is it possible that you have done things that pissed her off?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Do as above, move nearby so the kids have easy access to you.

Strike up a relationship with the sister inlaw, give her an incentive to like you, treat her like gold but don't give her any.

Definitely leave the kids with the mother or family and be patient because the kids will eventually come to you providing you do the correct thing.

[benalibina]

So the only thing that is stopping you from be with your kids is the mother of the kids? If money is no object why don't you move next to your kids?

For many Thais, they want the children to be with their parents. Why would your SIL take care of your kids if it is not for wanting to help you and your ex? At the end of the day, the in laws love the children. On the other hand, you and your ex have some serious issue. Why would your ex suddenly take your kids to SIL without informed you? Is it possible that you have done things that pissed her off?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Do as above, move nearby so the kids have easy access to you.

Strike up a relationship with the sister inlaw, give her an incentive to like you, treat her like gold but don't give her any.

Definitely leave the kids with the mother or family and be patient because the kids will eventually come to you providing you do the correct thing.

The SIL is the main cause of this shambolic situation. She is bad bad news....evilness is her middle name.

About moving in their vicinity...well thats future music....appreciate though the cooporative thoughts. Thanks.

[Straight8]

Although I agree with what you say in part, but "stop the money" then "keep fighting"

Unfortunately the OP is a foreigner, fighting for custody of his half thai children from a Thai mother in Thailand. Good luck with that fight.

Unless he has very deep pockets, to buy his kids back, [sadly a good percentage of thai's would probably sell their kinds without a second thought if the price is right].... it's game over already.

Don't even try to be logical or rational with them, straight over the top of the heads!!

Absolutely WRONG

Almost everyone in Thailand would agree that LK kids are better off heading home with Daddy.

Especially a judge when evidence for the actual circumstances of the mother's lifestle is demonstrated.

And this often goes for the wife and her family as well, they may be reluctant to give up their cash cow but believe it or not SOME do actually care for the best interest of the kids.

Yes of course you have to compensate them to do the right thing, but it doesn't have to be much, especially if they know the father isn't wealthy, they can be very realistic.

And it doesn't take much to do it "the hard way" either, nor to get the cops on your side.

I speak all of the above from hard-won experience, don't spread such defeatist nonsense when the stakes are so high.

Absolutely wrong in your opinion.

If you were able to swing it so cheaply, it really does show how much their mother and family valued their kids. Obviously they were not good negotiator. There are mothers out there that would not give up their kids for any amount but from what the OP has written, it is going to take a lot of money for the OP to take soul custody of his 3 kids, in my opinion.

Stop sounding like you know it all. This is a forum, not all opinions will be aligned and people shouldn't react solely on what is written by you or I.

[HardenedSoul]

Hardend pussy i have an off topic question for you,do you know any good dentists in your area ? Just in case some people might knock out some of youre teeth if they meet you in person .

We call that the third person in and gutless.

No need for that comment mate or flexing your muscle from behind your screen.

Nah, Kudel fancies himself as one of the old school, strong and silent types.

Happy to use the pen until such time as he actually has to think of something intelligent to write at which point he reverts to his genetically pre-programmed peasant posturing and chest-beating thinking it gives him the ultimate advantage and the final word.

I'm really intimidated

Edited February 16, 2014 by HardenedSoul

[sam sen]

you're not there for the formative years of your children's lives. what do you expect?

if you want to be part of your children's lives then your priorities need to change.

dont blame others for your failings as a father.

be there for your children, be a father to your children or risk the consequences.

[benalibina]

you're not there for the formative years of your children's lives. what do you expect?

if you want to be part of your children's lives then your priorities need to change.

dont blame others for your failings as a father.

be there for your children, be a father to your children or risk the consequences.

Yes...u are correct...i planned for all this to happen....300.000 times....i dreamed about evilness...disloyalty and to be cheated ...this all to complain on this forum that my kids are gone, nearly, about the fact that the FIL cares jackshit about the kids....thanks ... My dream has come true...at least something came out of my planning...shame on me coming on here...an utter shame...this ok now for u sam sen ?

[timewilltell]

What a piece of crap this has been. The OP has just complained every one is against him. Not one word of what his wife is doing or why they are not together. Could be he was out whoring every night and she had enough of it. We don't know and the OP has not came out with that information. The answers have been ridicules like he is living in another country and it turns out after 80 posts he says he is. The people that said that were just guessing. He indicated in his OP that he had seen the kids earlier in the month.m Not a word about living in another country. People say don't pay any more money. Where does he say he has paid any money to begin with?

With the information he has given here I say the kids are better off. He even says they would be better off with him because he is smarter than the in law's. Whoopeewingydodo. My father had an IQ of 160 didn't help me a bit. When asked questions he evaded them until pinned down on being the real father. What was that all about?

Then he comes to Thai Visa and posts how hard he has been treated with absolutely no information of what his part in the whole affair was other than he slept with the mother .

He gets no sympathy from me based on the information he has neglected to post. For all these posters telling him how to solve the problem he might be a child molester for all you know.

Give some real information.

My goodness that is a bit strong. If people gave all the facts to every post on here then posts would be pages long. How can a person explain everything, it has to be reduced.

Not only that, not everyone is happy with decisions made which in hindsight seem poorly thought out and not everyone is over the moon that their former partner is a prostitute who could not give a darn about her children, happy to leave them with ignorant people who will never be able to give the kids the start in life they deserve, whilst using them to blackmail the father.

Not everyone is keen to show that they picked the wrong person to start a relationship and family with yet what the passage of time shows was not the person they thought, and often all the people who knew them thought was a kind, good mother turns out to be something completely different.

The OP has given a good deal of information. Does it matter if she is screwing one man a week or twenty and what each of their names were and what town they were born in?

His part in the whole affair was to marry someone he thought was something else, and bear in mind Thai women are masters at deceit to get what they selfishly want. His part was to provide a home and start a family, caring and loving for his children which I think is amply demonstrated in his posts. His part was to give them food and shelter and care. Events and mistakes meant that living back in his home country was a better option for his family yet when he organized that deceit of his wife pretending to go along with it until he had gone and then preventing him seeing his children as payment for him Looking after her sorry ass for the past several years, running back to Phuket to shag for a living and palming the kids off to another lowlife to look after. To add insult to injury then setting about to brainwash the kids.

Perhaps the thrust of people's answers should be on advice and decrying the disgusting behaviour of the his wife, recognizing that rather than berating the OP for not wanting to expose every detail to the likes of a TV members, some of whim seem to be devoid of any humanity.

[timewilltell]

What on earth did you expect? How did you let it come to this? Nobody to blame but yourself if the facts are that your wife is away working in Phuket and you allowed your kids to be comandeered by their auntie. Good thing you are not a sailor or you'd be blown all over the ocean while you did nothing. Sorry, but sympathy is for those that proactively manage their lives and the lives of their children. For what it's worth, though, it is not uncommon for Thai wives to turn kids silently against their non-Thai dads (maybe even Thai dads, who knows?), all the while smiling and playing the role whilst waiting for the opportunity to own the farm.

Obviously you don't know much about Thai women or Thai law. First off many Thai women, from the lower echelons, do not have much motherly instinct and DO look at children as a money source both from the foreign fathers who have compassion and feelings - whereas most Thai men are happy to move on whoring and drinking so give the women what they deserve which is nothing but sadly don't seem to give a darn about the kids who are the ones who suffer. Thai law is made to deal with kids on the basis of what is best for them and from my personal experience they do try to do that. Thai law favour the mother as having more care for the kids which Thai to Thai is probably right, Thai to Foreign depends on the situation as from what I have seen the percentages of foreign fathers caring about their kids exceeds that of Thai fathers.

Also you have to understand that circumstances do not always let you do what you want to do or even what you know is your duty to do. The Thai wife in this case has authority over the kids so if the guy tries to run off with them the police will get involved and we all know the outcome of that. The OP really had little choice actually but could have managed things better and prepared better for the daft he knew he would have to leave. Then of course there is the usual deceit from the mother when the OP suggested that he would go ahead to his home country with a plan for the wife and kids to follow. She goes along with it, he sends money in the interim until it becomes obvious she just blew smoke up his ass and had no intention of following on, just delaying the cessation of money. Deceitful but pretty normal for a Thai women so far as I have seen at least in the majority who are so unbelievably deceitful, selfish and forget ethics!

The OP followed the path that looked right at the time but which really was doomed to failure if there was a better understanding on behalf of the OP. The fact that the wife is now 'working' in Phuket sums up her class and that she leaves the kids with the people she has reinforces it.

Stop the money my friend, regroup yourself and fight for your kids any way you can. Get money and try the courts given she clearly not look after the kids but then you have to show very clearly that you CAN look after them because the courts begin on the side of the woman, unreasonably so.

I understand your situation as I gave been through the grinder here and still am going through it. Keep fighting because if you give up then you gave to live with that decision the rest of your life.

I would imagine some of the anti posters here gave no kids or no understanding outside their own sad reality. You have made some bad mistakes but we are all human aren't we? It sad we are not as all knowing and experienced as the members of ThaiVisa.

Good luck!

Although I agree with what you say in part, but "stop the money" then "keep fighting"

Unfortunately the OP is a foreigner, fighting for custody of his half thai children from a Thai mother in Thailand. Good luck with that fight.

Unless he has very deep pockets, to buy his kids back, [sadly a good percentage of thai's would probably sell their kinds without a second thought if the price is right].... it's game over already.

Don't even try to be logical or rational with them, straight over the top of the heads!!

I got sole custody of mine - cost 50k and two court hearings. Not impossible but of course everyone's mileage may vary.

[wym]

Yes fine and good, but "poor me I'm such a victim" doesn't help get the job done.

EDITED deleted information from PM conversations

I've suggested he arrange to pay for things directly, but more importantly play along, antagonizing the family will just make things harder and more expensive in the future.

He needs to get over his anger, at least set it aside so he can be smart and decide exactly what he wants to accomplish and define the steps to accomplish those goals, then execute them ruthlessly, albeit via velvet gloves.

Edited February 16, 2014 by wym

[benalibina]

What a piece of crap this has been. The OP has just complained every one is against him. Not one word of what his wife is doing or why they are not together. Could be he was out whoring every night and she had enough of it. We don't know and the OP has not came out with that information. The answers have been ridicules like he is living in another country and it turns out after 80 posts he says he is. The people that said that were just guessing. He indicated in his OP that he had seen the kids earlier in the month.m Not a word about living in another country. People say don't pay any more money. Where does he say he has paid any money to begin with?

With the information he has given here I say the kids are better off. He even says they would be better off with him because he is smarter than the in law's. Whoopeewingydodo. My father had an IQ of 160 didn't help me a bit. When asked questions he evaded them until pinned down on being the real father. What was that all about?

Then he comes to Thai Visa and posts how hard he has been treated with absolutely no information of what his part in the whole affair was other than he slept with the mother .

He gets no sympathy from me based on the information he has neglected to post. For all these posters telling him how to solve the problem he might be a child molester for all you know.

Give some real information.

My goodness that is a bit strong. If people gave all the facts to every post on here then posts would be pages long. How can a person explain everything, it has to be reduced.

Not only that, not everyone is happy with decisions made which in hindsight seem poorly thought out and not everyone is over the moon that their former partner is a prostitute who could not give a darn about her children, happy to leave them with ignorant people who will never be able to give the kids the start in life they deserve, whilst using them to blackmail the father.

Not everyone is keen to show that they picked the wrong person to start a relationship and family with yet what the passage of time shows was not the person they thought, and often all the people who knew them thought was a kind, good mother turns out to be something completely different.

The OP has given a good deal of information. Does it matter if she is screwing one man a week or twenty and what each of their names were and what town they were born in?

His part in the whole affair was to marry someone he thought was something else, and bear in mind Thai women are masters at deceit to get what they selfishly want. His part was to provide a home and start a family, caring and loving for his children which I think is amply demonstrated in his posts. His part was to give them food and shelter and care. Events and mistakes meant that living back in his home country was a better option for his family yet when he organized that deceit of his wife pretending to go along with it until he had gone and then preventing him seeing his children as payment for him Looking after her sorry ass for the past several years, running back to Phuket to shag for a living and palming the kids off to another lowlife to look after. To add insult to injury then setting about to brainwash the kids.

Perhaps the thrust of people's answers should be on advice and decrying the disgusting behaviour of the his wife, recognizing that rather than berating the OP for not wanting to expose every detail to the likes of a TV members, some of whim seem to be devoid of any humanity.

Woowww ...thanks....could not have summarized it better.....thanks again.....

[timewilltell]

you're not there for the formative years of your children's lives. what do you expect?

if you want to be part of your children's lives then your priorities need to change.

dont blame others for your failings as a father.

be there for your children, be a father to your children or risk the consequences.

Yes...u are correct...i planned for all this to happen....300.000 times....i dreamed about evilness...disloyalty and to be cheated ...this all to complain on this forum that my kids are gone, nearly, about the fact that the FIL cares jackshit about the kids....thanks ... My dream has come true...at least something came out of my planning...shame on me coming on here...an utter shame...this ok now for u sam sen ?

I think you should re-read Sam's post. His points are all valid from my viewpoint.

So is your question what to do in your situation or is it to expose the cheating, lying, deceitful, selfish, money centered nature of a good majority of Thai women - or if the reader doubts that, then at least true for the mother of your children.

[JLCrab]

Maybe the inlaws think the girls have sin sot potential and are trying to steal them away from you?

they are 6 years old....

Yes and?

In order to get my ex to agree to full custody, I had to promise her that any suitor of our daughter would have to ask her for permission to marry her, and that she would get the sin sot.

Our daughter was two at the time.

That's funny -- in another post you said:

In my case the (bureaucrat) was incredulous my ex wasn't asking for anything from me and also signed over the kids completely, in effect giving up all legal rights as a mother.

[benalibina]

you're not there for the formative years of your children's lives. what do you expect?

if you want to be part of your children's lives then your priorities need to change.

dont blame others for your failings as a father.

be there for your children, be a father to your children or risk the consequences.

Yes...u are correct...i planned for all this to happen....300.000 times....i dreamed about evilness...disloyalty and to be cheated ...this all to complain on this forum that my kids are gone, nearly, about the fact that the FIL cares jackshit about the kids....thanks ... My dream has come true...at least something came out of my planning...shame on me coming on here...an utter shame...this ok now for u sam sen ?

I think you should re-read Sam's post. His points are all valid from my viewpoint.

So is your question what to do in your situation or is it to expose the cheating, lying, deceitful, selfish, money centered nature of a good majority of Thai women - or if the reader doubts that, then at least true for the mother of your children.

I think my OP was clear.

[timewilltell]

Yes fine and good, but "poor me I'm such a victim" doesn't help get the job done.

Yes he is still married to her so does stand a chance legally.

He doesn't have any/much money so that's job one, in the meantime has to leave things as they are.

He doesn't want to send any more money to the SiL to support the kids, but that's stupid if he at some point needs to go to court.

I've suggested he arrange to pay for things directly, but more importantly play along, antagonizing the family will just make things harder and more expensive in the future.

He needs to get over his anger, at least set it aside so he can be smart and decide exactly what he wants to accomplish and define the steps to accomplish those goals, then execute them ruthlessly, albeit via velvet gloves.

So your advice is to continue to send money to the lowlife looking after the kids who will likely use most of it on herself, from the point of view that it will be a plus point in the eyes of a court considering custody at a later date.

The other point of view is to send nothing and offer to buy the kids away from the mother when poverty starts to bite. A woman in her thirties having had three kids will not have much success selling her sagging assets for very long in Phuket I would imagine.

I am not sure which is the better course to be honest but your idea to pay for things directly if that can be arranged and documented is a super idea.

Anyway I agree the OP needs to get a plan and bloody well follow it. If you fail to plan, you plan to fail!

[timewilltell]

you're not there for the formative years of your children's lives. what do you expect?

if you want to be part of your children's lives then your priorities need to change.

dont blame others for your failings as a father.

be there for your children, be a father to your children or risk the consequences.

Yes...u are correct...i planned for all this to happen....300.000 times....i dreamed about evilness...disloyalty and to be cheated ...this all to complain on this forum that my kids are gone, nearly, about the fact that the FIL cares jackshit about the kids....thanks ... My dream has come true...at least something came out of my planning...shame on me coming on here...an utter shame...this ok now for u sam sen ?

I think you should re-read Sam's post. His points are all valid from my viewpoint.

So is your question what to do in your situation or is it to expose the cheating, lying, deceitful, selfish, money centered nature of a good majority of Thai women - or if the reader doubts that, then at least true for the mother of your children.

I think my OP was clear.

No your OP is not clear actually. Not clear at all really.

[wym]

Maybe the inlaws think the girls have sin sot potential and are trying to steal them away from you?

they are 6 years old....

Yes and?

In order to get my ex to agree to full custody, I had to promise her that any suitor of our daughter would have to ask her for permission to marry her, and that she would get the sin sot.

Our daughter was two at the time.

That's funny -- in another post you said:

In my case the (bureaucrat) was incredulous my ex wasn't asking for anything from me and also signed over the kids completely, in effect giving up all legal rights as a mother.

WHAT is your problem man?

You really think I just make sh1t up for fun? Everything I write is just the plain truth, I have no reason to be making up stories for my amusement here, I'm just trying to help out here OK?

So to address the last nit you feel like picking - I made a promise to her.

Along with others that aren't all that relevant here, just so you know if another comes up sometime.

None of which has anything to do with my divorce/custody agreement. She knows my word is good, just as I hold her to what she agrees with me.

If you'd like I can send you the original, would you stop challenging every thing I say if I do?

[JLCrab]

You really think I just make sh1t up for fun? Yes.

[wym]

Well when I look back at my life sure sometimes it seems "incredible" but then again reality is stranger than fiction.

I don't.

Offer still stands on my divorce agreement. . .

[benalibina]

you're not there for the formative years of your children's lives. what do you expect?

if you want to be part of your children's lives then your priorities need to change.

dont blame others for your failings as a father.

be there for your children, be a father to your children or risk the consequences.

Yes...u are correct...i planned for all this to happen....300.000 times....i dreamed about evilness...disloyalty and to be cheated ...this all to complain on this forum that my kids are gone, nearly, about the fact that the FIL cares jackshit about the kids....thanks ... My dream has come true...at least something came out of my planning...shame on me coming on here...an utter shame...this ok now for u sam sen ?

I think you should re-read Sam's post. His points are all valid from my viewpoint.

So is your question what to do in your situation or is it to expose the cheating, lying, deceitful, selfish, money centered nature of a good majority of Thai women - or if the reader doubts that, then at least true for the mother of your children.

I think my OP was clear.

No your OP is not clear actually. Not clear at all really.

Hmm...just reread it again....clear for me....spot of bother, kids involved, emotional damage IMO done to kids, seeking but not teceiving help from FIL, why ?

Quite clear i think.

[nontabury]

Although I agree with what you say in part, but "stop the money" then "keep fighting"

Unfortunately the OP is a foreigner, fighting for custody of his half thai children from a Thai mother in Thailand. Good luck with that fight.

Unless he has very deep pockets, to buy his kids back, [sadly a good percentage of thai's would probably sell their kinds without a second thought if the price is right].... it's game over already.

Don't even try to be logical or rational with them, straight over the top of the heads!!

Sorry! You are completely wrong, as I've stated earlier the children's courts here in Thailand are very fair, their only concern is for the welfare of the child/s.

What the OP has failed to answer is what does he actually want. Does he want

1/ joint custody with the children remaining with the mother or her sister, with him being granted access.

2/ joint custody with the children living with him, the mother having access.

3/ sole custody to him so he can take them back to his own country, in order to give them a chance in life.

PS to the OP, I ask again, if your daughters remain with their mother What do you think their profession will be at 16 yrs old.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wym]

He's not actually asking for advice, not willing to share critical details.

He just wants confirmation of his feelings and the answer to his question "why oh why" which of course is "because they are evil".

Actually being able to do something about it will take resources he doesn't yet have.

People actually seeking to help from a practical POV should contact him via PM.

[Straight8]

What on earth did you expect? How did you let it come to this? Nobody to blame but yourself if the facts are that your wife is away working in Phuket and you allowed your kids to be comandeered by their auntie. Good thing you are not a sailor or you'd be blown all over the ocean while you did nothing. Sorry, but sympathy is for those that proactively manage their lives and the lives of their children. For what it's worth, though, it is not uncommon for Thai wives to turn kids silently against their non-Thai dads (maybe even Thai dads, who knows?), all the while smiling and playing the role whilst waiting for the opportunity to own the farm.

Obviously you don't know much about Thai women or Thai law. First off many Thai women, from the lower echelons, do not have much motherly instinct and DO look at children as a money source both from the foreign fathers who have compassion and feelings - whereas most Thai men are happy to move on whoring and drinking so give the women what they deserve which is nothing but sadly don't seem to give a darn about the kids who are the ones who suffer. Thai law is made to deal with kids on the basis of what is best for them and from my personal experience they do try to do that. Thai law favour the mother as having more care for the kids which Thai to Thai is probably right, Thai to Foreign depends on the situation as from what I have seen the percentages of foreign fathers caring about their kids exceeds that of Thai fathers.

Also you have to understand that circumstances do not always let you do what you want to do or even what you know is your duty to do. The Thai wife in this case has authority over the kids so if the guy tries to run off with them the police will get involved and we all know the outcome of that. The OP really had little choice actually but could have managed things better and prepared better for the daft he knew he would have to leave. Then of course there is the usual deceit from the mother when the OP suggested that he would go ahead to his home country with a plan for the wife and kids to follow. She goes along with it, he sends money in the interim until it becomes obvious she just blew smoke up his ass and had no intention of following on, just delaying the cessation of money. Deceitful but pretty normal for a Thai women so far as I have seen at least in the majority who are so unbelievably deceitful, selfish and forget ethics!

The OP followed the path that looked right at the time but which really was doomed to failure if there was a better understanding on behalf of the OP. The fact that the wife is now 'working' in Phuket sums up her class and that she leaves the kids with the people she has reinforces it.

Stop the money my friend, regroup yourself and fight for your kids any way you can. Get money and try the courts given she clearly not look after the kids but then you have to show very clearly that you CAN look after them because the courts begin on the side of the woman, unreasonably so.

I understand your situation as I gave been through the grinder here and still am going through it. Keep fighting because if you give up then you gave to live with that decision the rest of your life.

I would imagine some of the anti posters here gave no kids or no understanding outside their own sad reality. You have made some bad mistakes but we are all human aren't we? It sad we are not as all knowing and experienced as the members of ThaiVisa.

Good luck!

Although I agree with what you say in part, but "stop the money" then "keep fighting"

Unfortunately the OP is a foreigner, fighting for custody of his half thai children from a Thai mother in Thailand. Good luck with that fight.

Unless he has very deep pockets, to buy his kids back, [sadly a good percentage of thai's would probably sell their kinds without a second thought if the price is right].... it's game over already.

Don't even try to be logical or rational with them, straight over the top of the heads!!

I got sole custody of mine - cost 50k and two court hearings. Not impossible but of course everyone's mileage may vary.

Let nothing surprise you when a thai and money are involved, seems even their own flesh and blood has a price.

At a guess and without knowing your full history, I believe the kids will have a much better upbringing and better life with you by far... good luck to you.

[benalibina]

@nontabury

To answer truthfully....

-i want my kids here with me....end goal

- to achieve the above...via positive outcome of a courtcase i need to be 1st there for the proceedings of the court. In a somewhat similar case i read it can last quite long....over 3 years already....my plan is never...repeat never to treat the mother of the kids on same way as how i have been treated...no point if i would want that....better than to leave it how it is.....1 thing is a certainty, i need my kids initially out of the manipulative brainwashing environment they are in now. Their mother will be their mother for the rest of their lifes.

About the age of 16......luug krungs who cant speak any decent english....or my language....know what u want to read.....all is possible....unfortunately.....hence my worries 2...but not only that.....worry about alot more....kids follow who looks after them.

Edited February 16, 2014 by benalibina

[farang000999]

have you considered to just move close to the kids and be nice/generous to the SIL? go tell her how amazing she is every time you see her and i doubt she can resist that. make as many allies in the family as you can... at least you will be close to your kids...

[dighambara]

Thus we presume you are the true Father, so the children all have dual citizenship, and you have their non Thai passports in your posession. Prepurchase tickets for the kids to go home. Come to Thailand, with the story to take the kids on a visit to some remote spot in Thailand. Ride the train, which will transit in Bangkok, then head for the airport and take them back home.

Old saying - "No guts, no Glory"...

[wym]

Can't get on the plane without written permission from the mother.

Plus his home country authorities prosecute him for parental kidnapping.