Thai farmers can get normal loans too: BAAC exec

[webfact]

Farmers can get normal loans too: BAAC exec
The Nation
Kampheng Phet

Money presented to family of woman who took her own life

BANGKOK: -- Farmers awaiting payment for rice submitted to the government pledging scheme could get loans of up to Bt100,000 to help them avoid difficulty and prevent them turning to loan sharks, according to the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Co-operatives. The loans are not related to the rice scheme, but just part of the bank's normal services.

Meanwhile, the Mental Health Department has sent teams of psychologists to visit the homes of eight farmers who reportedly took their own lives over lack of payment for rice sold to the pledging scheme. The department expected to learn more about the farmers' deaths by Monday.

BAAC executives yesterday presented the family of farmer Boonma Sa-thong-uan, who on Tuesday hanged herself in Kamphaeng Phet's Klong Lan district, with Bt30,000 in assistance money.

Bank public relations and communications director Peerapong Kamchuen and other executives attended the funeral yesterday for Boonma, who reportedly committed suicide after having suffering severe stress due to the months-long overdue payment from the rice-pledging scheme. Boonma's cremation will be held today.

Peerapong said the BAAC had a debt-restructuring interest-reducing project that would help Boonma's husband Chalerm Sa-thong-uan, who also has a loan with the bank. It would give him a grace period until March 2015.

Meanwhile, the deputy director-general for Mental Health Panpimol Wipulakorn told a press conference on Thursday the department sent teams to visit the homes of eight farmers, who reportedly committed suicide over the scheme's overdue payments - to investigate the real reasons behind their deaths.

She said the department should be able to conclude the cause of suicide for the first seven cases by Monday, but it would take a while to gather information about the eighth case before a conclusion was drawn.

Panpimol said the visits were necessary because there could be many factors that contribute to a suicide and an economic problem may just be one reason. She said that many cases reportedly show some signs of suicide risk such as stress or depression. When such people encounter additional pressure or an economic-related stress, the risk of suicide rose.

She also warned that news about suicides could encourage copycat behaviour by people at risk.

News reports must be well-rounded and show all factors because some people may already have chronic illness plus stress over money problems. "It's not that you have no money then you must kill yourself for that reason," she said.

Panpimol urged people to watch others close to them for suicide risk signs, to seek advice from Public Health teams at hospitals or to seek care from public health volunteers.

She also urged farmers awaiting payments to jointly solve their problem step-by-step, rather than thinking this as the end of the world.

Deaths so far...

Eight suicides or stress-induced deaths this year attributed to lack of payments for rice submitted under the government pledging scheme:

January 9: A 59-year-old male farmer in Phichit's Muang district (fatal shock and high-blood pressure);

January 26: A 60-year-old male farmer in Roi Et's Muang district (hanging);

January 27: A 46-year-old male farmer in Si Sa Ket's Khukhan district (hanging);

January 28: A 43-year-old male worker in Buri Ram's Nong Hong district (hanging);

February 7: An 81-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Muang district (fatal shock and heart failure);

February 10: A 38-year-old female farmer in Sukhothai's Kong Krailat district (hanging);

February 11: A 42-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Klong Lan district (hanging);

February 12: A 42-year-old male farmer in Chachoengsao's Ratchasan district (drank pesticide).


-- The Nation 2014-02-15

[EricBerg]

Why didn't BAAC come up with this before? Could have saved some suicides and much grief and sorrow. But better late than never. Good job BAAC!

[mightyatom]

Strange because up until the last 24 hours or so, the BAAC was saying that they won't loan against the vouchers as collateral.

Now the BAAC are getting 17 bn loan from the Government Savings Bank, (whom promised the PDRC they would never lend) almost certainly been demanded of the government.

Government also demanding all state agencies remove all money from other banks and deposit into BAAC..... more dubious tactics, and unconstitutional, because government can't touch state funds, yet seem to be moving them around to fit their needs.

Ex-Finance minister is already poised to submit a legal challenge.

The government are hiding all this behind a facade of 'inter-bank' lending, however, it is clearly government borrowing.

This will all end in tears and it will probably be Yingluck's.

Edited February 14, 2014 by mightyatom

[mightyatom]

Why didn't BAAC come up with this before? Could have saved some suicides and much grief and sorrow. But better late than never. Good job BAAC!

BAAC has only 110bn liquidity.... Read my post above, that will explain what is going on.

The government are playing money games, with no authority to do so. They are like ponzi scheme jockeys.

Edited February 14, 2014 by mightyatom

[notmyself]

All this 'face' stuff in Thailand is not only ridiculous, it is a farce. Ms caretaker PM glovepuppet Yingluck has screwed up the mosr basic food stuff on the planet and doesn't feel any sense of shame. In this respect the idea of 'face' is that you just yourself have to believe you have not lost face.

I can't object to the idea of face at a psychological level because I think it is part of us and makes us stronger. I don't see anything wrong with someone coming clean and feeling bad about it. You learn from your mistakes. What we are witnessing now, is someone who knows they should quit but cannot for other reasons.

To get back on topic. The banks offering loans to the poor farmers at a cheaper rate than the sharks. I wonder how many are already maxed out due to the first car loan. It was always going to happen of cause, when the financial **** hit the fan the farmers were going to get hit the hardest. Sure, the government could just keep on borrowing for a while until they have no more money and the star collapses, what then? Is it better now than later?

[noikrit]

So the Farmers who HAVE NOT been paid for their Rice by the Government can borrow more money .. <deleted> !!! They should be getting PAID ! not getting into more debt .....

[Robby nz]

It all comes back to non payment.

The farmers wouldn't need these loans if they had been paid and loans incur interest so regardless of who the borrowing is from the interest will still have to be paid putting the farmers even deeper in the poo.

For when they do eventually get paid the loan will have to be repaid with the interest leaving them broke again.

[chainarong]

This is all very well, but that's money you never had, that's called credit , credit means mortgage the farm , how do you repay the loan when you have no income coming in , come to think of it how can a bank give out a loan without proof of income, (sub prime, again??) you put the rice farmer or any farmer under duress to repay a loan with money has not got , to simplistic.

[iancnx]

The whole situation is a fiasco, but nonetheless very real to the farmers ALL OVER THAILAND who have been betrayed by their government.

According to last September figures (actually reporting Q2), the household debt in Thailand was running at an equivalent of 77% of GDP. 9 months on you can expect 2 things. GDP has dropped considerably, and conversely, debt has gone up just as considerably. That will place the true % of debt in perilous territory. And now they are encouraging the poor people to borrow even more. Not securable against the rice certificates, but chanots will do nicely thank you very much. The fat cats are already queuing up to reap the future benefits of loan defaults when the banks will have no choice but to repossess property to straighten out their books. I hope I am wrong, but if I am right prepare for a backlash that no country wishes to either contemplate or endure.

[LuckyLew]

So the government is way late in paying the farmers thru the BAAC

Both the above claim to have no money

Now the BAAC say the farmers can borrow money

I hope it is interest free

Do they really expect farmers to go further in debt because the PTP pilfered too much money and now has none left?

Only in Thailand

[wealth]

what does this tell us? - Most likely that most farmers will not get paid from Feb 17 onward

[Mosha]

The farmers are in a hole, and the BAAC want to give them a bigger spade.

[Bluespunk]

"Farmers can get normal loans too: BAAC exec"

Interest free? Pay back when you get paid?

[meatboy]

Why didn't BAAC come up with this before? Could have saved some suicides and much grief and sorrow. But better late than never. Good job BAAC!

because the thai way is let it happen first.

[worgeordie]

It seems to be the same all over the World,Governments are

happy to let their citizens get up to their eyes in debit,suppose

it makes them easier to control and keeps the banks and other

financial scum very happy.

regards Worgeordie

[Tatsujin]

I hope Pheu Thai and the Politicians involved have agreed to pay the interest on any loans made to the farmers out of their own pockets, cos all I'm seeing is a ton of people getting even deeper into a financial minefield with a very hard crawl to get out from under, all from a 'scheme' designed to 'help' them.

[Yunla]

I find it almost impossible to read about these tragic and completely avoidable agrarian-worker debt-suicides. Their being in that position should never have happened, and the people responsible in Government should face legal consequences for inflicting this financial catastrophe on the poorest and most hardworking citizens. It really is a case of corrupt policy and administrative negligence directly leading to deaths, and the people responsible should not be allowed to sweep this crime against humanity under the carpet.

[allan michaud]

"She also urged farmers awaiting payments to jointly solve their problem step-by-step, rather than thinking this as the end of the world."

So a bunch of people with zero money and massive debts are expect to help each other to find Baht 130 billion? Is this a joke?

With reports that water is now being released in many areas for the next crop and with many farmers not being able to plant due to having no money, why would many not see this as the end of the world?

While I have no facts to back this next statement up, I feel certain 10's of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of families are now absolutely screwed. I have seen first hand the loan sharks at work in Khon Kaen and they are robbing these poor fools blind.

e.g. Baht 80,000 loan, 1 year old car handed over as collateral, 10% interest PER MONTH! Yet the person had no way of paying even the interest each month. The loan shark said she now had more than 30 cars because 'clients' could not pay the interest back.

e.g. Baht 230,000 loan at 2.5% per month and the person could only afford to pay the interest. 15 years later (and having paid over Baht1 million in interest) the loan shark demanded immediate payment of the principal, which resulted in the family losing their house and rice field.

The combination of desperation and utter stupidity is shocking.

Edited February 15, 2014 by allan michaud

[taony]

Jeez what a great approach. Go get more loans so you have to pay interest in money you should already have and will never be paid by us! And let us come investigate your entire family and life so we can then announce our pre-formed conclusion that it was other stress and not the rice scheme that caused the suicides!

-*I typed this myself*-

[JRSoul]

What the OP glosses over is the difficulty and amount of time involved in getting a loan from a bank for the average village dwelling Thai. That is why they resort to loan sharks.

Personal experience; my BIL could not get a loan to expand his business despite owning his village home and having a sound business plan already proven. I offered him B200,000 @ 12% reducible payable monthly, a reasonable return for me with a simple calculation of balance for him (New balance = [old balance -payment] x 101%). He discussed it with his wife and offered 12% flat on the whole balance (which I reduced to 10%) because it was easier to calculate. Paid back in 2 years with interest.

[Bluespunk]

It seems to be the same all over the World,Governments are

happy to let their citizens get up to their eyes in debit,suppose

it makes them easier to control and keeps the banks and other

financial scum very happy.

regards Worgeordie

True, but most govts don't force them into debt by defrauding them out of their only source of income.

[sunshine51]

The farmers don't need a loan....they NEED to get PAID.

Paid with interest would be nice but I reckon that's not

gonna happen...the farmers just need to get paid and

paid soon. The farmers are the last people YL's

government wants to have pissed off at them...the rest

of the populace will shortly follow as soon as their bellies

no longer have rice in em. End the problem...pay the

farmers...it's quite simple really.

[seajae]

surely this is some kind of joke, they refuse to give loans against the money they owe them but then after 8 deaths they turn around and say they will do it but under normal loans, ie, interest payable on the amount borrowed. This is theft pure and simple, the bank owes them the money but will not pay and tells them to take loans(of the money owed to them) with interest instead so that the bank can get back their money, only in Thailand

[GentlemanJim]

Why didn't BAAC come up with this before? Could have saved some suicides and much grief and sorrow. But better late than never. Good job BAAC!

Banks here can take 3 months to approve a loan. Bank loans are only given to somebody with hard collateral and those who can show they are 'employed'. I guess most farmers will not have the last 6 months salary slips or bank statements. Nice of the BAAC to say this but I bet only 1 in a 100 of the farmers that would approach would qualify for a normal bank loan. This is not the solution, nor is it even a helpful one. The situation is untenable. I don't know about all the crap in Bangkok, but if ever anything justified a state of emergency in this country, it is the current plight of these unpaid farmers.

[Valentine]

Most likely land papers will be needed to secure any loan & after the loan cannot be repaid said land will be sold off. Seems like another cog in the wheel of "the great land grab".

[ramrod711]

Meanwhile, the Mental Health Department has sent teams of psychologists to visit the homes of eight farmers who reportedly took their own lives over lack of payment for rice sold to the pledging scheme.

Psychologists aren't going to alleviate the financial dispair that caused the suicides. The liars, crooks, idiots and greedy people that caused this should have their assets seized, immediately. Remember this, Thaksin is bragging, in Forbes magazine, that his country sent him 30 billion baht in the midst of this Ponzi scheme. I'm naive, i suppose, but who would have thought that one family could wreak havoc on this country and get away with it.

[KRS1]

and the question that no one has yet answered - why isnt the government selling the rice?

[Thaddeus]

and the question that no one has yet answered - why isnt the government selling the rice?

They are, at auction, and getting a fraction of the market price.

May put a small dent in the debt, but will not fix the problem.

[Robby nz]

and the question that no one has yet answered - why isnt the government selling the rice?

They are, at auction, and getting a fraction of the market price.

May put a small dent in the debt, but will not fix the problem.

Have a look at :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/704323-afet-bids-for-thai-govt-rice-come-in-low-amid-high-supply/

[Scamper]

The long-term consequences of the rice scheme have been devastating to the families of farmers. As these stories illuminate, there is a human tragedy here that is finally reaching public awareness. It sheds a terrible light on this administration. It sheds a light on corruption, and where it can lead. In fact, it is easier now to draw a very clear causal line between the unethical behavior of this administration and the tragedies they spawn. They may indeed have begun by taking root in smoke-filled executive rooms, but they end up here - in the humble homes of rural farmers and their families. What they experience are the real consequences of the Yingluck administration.