In defense of BKK Public Transport.

[Grawburg]

Having lived in USA, BKK, West Africa, and traveled to 50 other countries, I want to stand up in defense of the public transportation in BKK. I think public transport in BKK is splendid.

1) Taxi. Cheap, air conditioned, metered, and cheap. So what if you have to listen to luk tung songs and red shirt propaganda the entire trip, your paying barely $1 to start the meter and pennies after that. What other city are you going to get from the airport to town for less than $15? In Gabon where I'm working a taxi is 3 times the cost, negotiated rate, AND they pick up and drop off others along the way!!

If you haven't figured out by now that along Sukumvit and Silom on a Friday night taxis are not going to use the meter then you deserve whatever frustration you face. Walk 5 minutes off the main road and you'll find a metered taxi. The attitude you take with taxis and your ability to speak some thai go a long way...and it should, this is not your country. If my farang wife with virtually no Thai can go all over town every day with no problems, you should be able to as well.

2) Motocycles Again, cheap, and convenient. You should know the rate before you get on. Don't ask the rate unless you're going a long way. State your destination and get on the bike. Hand the money when you get off and be done. In 4 years of taking motos almost every day I've had problems less than 5 times. If a group of motos hassles you about price, walk a few meters and wave one down on the street instead of going to the gang. Moto taxi are illegal in many countries. Be happy you have that cheap option.

3) Tuks Tuks. Tuks tuks are for tourists and ladies taking vegetables from the market. They are not public transportation to use with any regularity unless you work a deal with a driver for daily service.

4) BTS/MRT Yes it's plagued with political gaming and occasional inefficiency, but I'd rather ride the BTS than the Paris or New York subway any day of the year. Is it busy and sometimes overcrowded? Yes, but there's not a cop jabbing a baton in your rear like Tokoys subway, never been scared like on Chicago's L, never seen the rudeness like London, never had my pocket picked like Paris, never smelled the BO like in Cairo (there's a subway in Cairo). BTS and MRT are clean and well organized and I'd put it up against any subway in the world for cost and overall experience.

[Metapod]

you left out other options.

Bus - different routes all over the city (and extending outside). Cheap as chips

River Taxi - somewhat interesting and useful if you live in an area near one (ram for instance)

Minivans - Use these a lot around north bkk and rangsit. Quick and easy way to get around if you know where you need to be going

--

BKK has a great deal of public transport options and I don't mind it at all. Just got to know the areas a bit and know your options, and be mindful of times/places to avoid.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Gabonese women are hot! I hope you're taking the opportunity

[FalangBaa]

Gabonese women are hot! I hope you're taking the opportunity

Agreed... Apart from the pygmies.

[Razzler1973]

When you can get in a taxi they are fine, not expensive, air-con. I'd never get a tuk-tuk but the whole not taking passengers thing is a joke. We have similar issues here in Dubai with traffic and taxis and you report them and they get fined. It's not even a farang thing, they openly don't take anyone.

I can get around the 'no meter' thing, that's not too much of a hassle, we used to have that here too, when you know the price of places it's perfectly fine but the refusing to take passengers is the one that really gets me

I don't know how taxis work in BKK, are they centralised or individually owned or rented by the driver so it is in fact HIS decision to take people? i.e. not much complaining that can be done. That is a bloody pain in the arse

I'll take BKK Subway and BTS over our new Metro here which has predictabily become a way to move the low paid workers around and it's not even that fast. Fridays (weekend) ... forget it so I'll take BKK anyday

I uses buses a fair bit but depends on the time of day

[rgs2001uk]

you left out other options.

Bus - different routes all over the city (and extending outside). Cheap as chips

River Taxi - somewhat interesting and useful if you live in an area near one (ram for instance)

Minivans - Use these a lot around north bkk and rangsit. Quick and easy way to get around if you know where you need to be going

--

BKK has a great deal of public transport options and I don't mind it at all. Just got to know the areas a bit and know your options, and be mindful of times/places to avoid.

Minivans going from places such as HappyLand or Fashion Island to Pattaya, no need to head into Ekamai for the bus.

As noted above minivans going from places such as The Mall BangKapi to Future Park.

Not mentioned, song taew, going up and down OnNut from the market to places such as Seacon Square.

Prakanong BTS to the river boat at Klong Tan.

Going from Klong Tan to On Nut.

The ability to read Thai makes things easier.

[attrayant]

I'm generally in agreement. Plus the buses come quite frequently, every five or ten minutes. Back home it was every thirty minutes during rush hour; hourly all other times.

Added bonus: occasionally, perhaps about 25% of the time I use the #34 or 39 bus going up and down Phahonyothin, the fair taker isn't on board and the ride is free. I wonder if this is common throughout the BRT.

[Faranguy]

I agree with all. I wish more people would use it and get their cars off the street. I have owned many cars in my 65 years including a 1968 supercharged Mustang. I got rid off everything and never realized what a load off my back that was. No insurance, no license, no fuel, no repairs, no traffic jams with nothing todo, no driving friends (as much as I would like to), no pollution from me. I am in much better shape from walking and riding my bike. Why would I drive with ample taxis around. The only downside is that I cannot join the Ramkamhaeng racers for the Thursday night races. I would love to take a run at those boys and girls with my old 500 hp 5litre Mustang. Yep They would be eating some dust 0-100 kph in less than 4 sec. Then I remember I scared the hell out of myself every time I drove it. Anyway I think many of those bad boys are cops.555

[gerry123]

Gabonese women are hot! I hope you're taking the opportunity

Agreed... Apart from the pygmies.

please why not the pygmies?

[MrHammer]

There's not nearly enough 'cars' on the BTS with newest extension. Standing crammed like cattle in tropical heat isn't pleasurable. What good is a taxi when half won't go where you are going because there is too much traffic jam? Though it is not difficult to get a meter taxi from Sukhumvit at any time, don't know why people insist on choosing taxis that are parked by the side.

Public transport is not good in Bangkok, the BTS used to be ok, but now it is a hassle with too many passengers for its operating capacity.

I am very happy I bought a motorbike.

[Lakegeneve]

I'm generally in agreement. Plus the buses come quite frequently, every five or ten minutes. Back home it was every thirty minutes during rush hour; hourly all other times.

Added bonus: occasionally, perhaps about 25% of the time I use the #34 or 39 bus going up and down Phahonyothin, the fair taker isn't on board and the ride is free. I wonder if this is common throughout the BRT.

BRT? Never free but it is only 10 baht.

You are travelling free to a policy introduced by the previous govt in 2010 and continued by the current govt to subsidise transport for the poor as a way of dealing with cost of living issues. Thus around 20 non aircon BMTA bus services (red buses) are free (though not always every bus).

On other BMTA buses that bus conductor might be a fair taker of your fare.

[edwardflory]

TAXI: I don't speak Thai, but have found a very easy way to take a taxi anywhere I wanto go....GOOGLE MAPS.

I open the front door, say sawadee in a raspy voice, point to my throad - as in "sorry sore throat", SHOW a map graphic on my phone of where I want to go................... done!

Works like a charm, METER ON, usually driver says something like "get well" when we get to where I want to go.

Where else can you ride in a taxi for 45 minutes for around $6US <== last trip to the airport on a Wednesday

"Tuks Tuks": I love going to Ayutthaya with my girlfriend, we usually hire a "Tuks Tuks" for 3 hours for 500฿ ( $15US ). Where else can you get a driver for that kind of money that goes where you want to go, then get out do what you want to do, get back on, go another place, etc. Every other stop I always bring a bottle of water to the driver.

Where else can you hire a driver for 3 hours for 500฿ ( $15US ).<== last stay in Ayutthaya on a Saturday

Edited February 17, 2014 by edwardflory

[Lakegeneve]

I can get around the 'no meter' thing, that's not too much of a hassle, we used to have that here too, when you know the price of places it's perfectly fine but the refusing to take passengers is the one that really gets me

I don't know how taxis work in BKK, are they centralised or individually owned or rented by the driver so it is in fact HIS decision to take people? i.e. not much complaining that can be done. That is a bloody pain in the arse

All taxis are company owned, about diff 30 companies, and drivers pay anything between 400-1000 baht (depending on the age of the taxi) to hire it for a 12 hr shift. There are just under 90K registered taxis with the DLT (each has a unique id number) and an estimated 20K unofficial ones.

The exception is the green and yellow coloured taxis and older blue and red coloured taxis. The are owned by the driver - who probably gets his friend to drive it when the driver is not.

It is unlawful not to turn on the meter.

It is unlawful not to take pax to their requested destination except when the driver is;

a) returning home at the end of a shift,

a distant location outside Bangkok in another province,

c) the driver needs to obtain fuel - in which case he should not have stopped.

However, as most know the law and the reality are often very different.

Complaints made to the DLT complains lines will be followed up.

[attrayant]

BRT? Never free but it is only 10 baht.

We'll I'm sure it's not free by policy, but for some reason my routes seem to have a high fair-taker absenteeism rate. End result: a free ride about a quarter of the time.

And the routes I mentioned are only 8 baht (southbound from my location) or 6.5 baht (if northbound). The air conditioned routes are 15 baht.

[Cbr150r]

Motosai taxi groups are organized by location and they queue themselves so its unlikely you can pick a driver out of queue. It can be a dangerous practice for a driver of another location to pick you up near the queue for that location because they can be viewed as stealing a customer

[Bender]

I think public transport in BKK is splendid.

yes its splendid if you are a foreigner or thai middle class, otherwise it cost you one arm to ride the mrt/bts.

Did you ever see a low wage worker on the skytrain or taking a taxi.... not really i think so.

Back home at least the factory worker can afford the subway, here they have to no others choice than these old crappy bus... and spend one hour in a traffic jam.... yes that was my monday moaning

[BudRight]

TAXI: I don't speak Thai, but have found a very easy way to take a taxi anywhere I wanto go....GOOGLE MAPS.

I open the front door, say sawadee in a raspy voice, point to my throad - as in "sorry sore throat", SHOW a map graphic on my phone of where I want to go................... done!

Works like a charm, METER ON, usually driver says something like "get well" when we get to where I want to go.

Where else can you ride in a taxi for 45 minutes for around $6US <== last trip to the airport on a Wednesday

"Tuks Tuks": I love going to Ayutthaya with my girlfriend, we usually hire a "Tuks Tuks" for 3 hours for 500฿ ( $15US ). Where else can you get a driver for that kind of money that goes where you want to go, then get out do what you want to do, get back on, go another place, etc. Every other stop I always bring a bottle of water to the driver.

Where else can you hire a driver for 3 hours for 500฿ ( $15US ).<== last stay in Ayutthaya on a Saturday

I don't believe the taxi driver would have any idea where something is on a map.

[edwardflory]

TAXI: I don't speak Thai, but have found a very easy way to take a taxi anywhere I wanto go....GOOGLE MAPS.

I open the front door, say sawadee in a raspy voice, point to my throad - as in "sorry sore throat", SHOW a map graphic on my phone of where I want to go................... done!

Works like a charm, METER ON, usually driver says something like "get well" when we get to where I want to go.

Where else can you ride in a taxi for 45 minutes for around $6US <== last trip to the airport on a Wednesday

"Tuks Tuks": I love going to Ayutthaya with my girlfriend, we usually hire a "Tuks Tuks" for 3 hours for 500฿ ( $15US ). Where else can you get a driver for that kind of money that goes where you want to go, then get out do what you want to do, get back on, go another place, etc. Every other stop I always bring a bottle of water to the driver.

Where else can you hire a driver for 3 hours for 500฿ ( $15US ).<== last stay in Ayutthaya on a Saturday

I don't believe the taxi driver would have any idea where something is on a map.

[edwardflory]

TAXI: I don't speak Thai, but have found a very easy way to take a taxi anywhere I wanto go....GOOGLE MAPS.

I open the front door, say sawadee in a raspy voice, point to my throad - as in "sorry sore throat", SHOW a map graphic on my phone of where I want to go................... done!

Works like a charm, METER ON, usually driver says something like "get well" when we get to where I want to go.

Where else can you ride in a taxi for 45 minutes for around $6US <== last trip to the airport on a Wednesday

"Tuks Tuks": I love going to Ayutthaya with my girlfriend, we usually hire a "Tuks Tuks" for 3 hours for 500฿ ( $15US ). Where else can you get a driver for that kind of money that goes where you want to go, then get out do what you want to do, get back on, go another place, etc. Every other stop I always bring a bottle of water to the driver.

Where else can you hire a driver for 3 hours for 500฿ ( $15US ).<== last stay in Ayutthaya on a Saturday

I don't believe the taxi driver would have any idea where something is on a map.

with a 7inch display, an a pin marking where you want to go, its prety easy for him to figure out where you want to go on the STREET MAP - try it sometimes

[Lakegeneve]

BRT? Never free but it is only 10 baht.

We'll I'm sure it's not free by policy, but for some reason my routes seem to have a high fair-taker absenteeism rate. End result: a free ride about a quarter of the time.

And the routes I mentioned are only 8 baht (southbound from my location) or 6.5 baht (if northbound). The air conditioned routes are 15 baht.

You seem a little confused. You mentioned the BRT, that is the single line Bus Rapid Transit that runs from Sathon to Ratchadapruek. It has a flat fare of 10 baht, hence my reply. Shown in yellow on this map, http://www.bts.co.th/customer/en/02-route-current.aspx

The free BMTA buses (only non aricon red buses for around 20 routes) are only free due to a 'cost of living' policy that was introduced by the Dems 4 years ago - includes 3rd class SRT trains. It is reviewed every 6 months and has been extended every time since then. It is nothing to do with your assumed bus conductor absenteeism.

The 6.5 baht flat fare is for BMTA air-con (red buses). And 8 baht flat fare is for private non-aircon/fan concession buses. You can travel 1 stop or the whole route for the same price. For air-con buses (BMTA & private) the fare ranges from 11 baht to 35 baht depending on distance. Your 15 baht fare probably means a 5km+ journey but it varies from route to route.

Get yourself a bus map at one of the large bookstores. That will help you understand the system and fare structure. You'll find that some busy bus routes have 4 different bus types (BMTA non aircon, BMTA aircon, private non air, private air) which causes all sorts of confusion as sometimes they all terminate at different locations . Crazy but true.

[Lakegeneve]

I think public transport in BKK is splendid.

yes its splendid if you are a foreigner or thai middle class, otherwise it cost you one arm to ride the mrt/bts.

Did you ever see a low wage worker on the skytrain or taking a taxi.... not really i think so.

Back home at least the factory worker can afford the subway, here they have to no others choice than these old crappy bus... and spend one hour in a traffic jam.... yes that was my monday moaning

This is a double edged sword issue and your stereotype of foreigners and factory workers perhaps misses the reality - especially as quite a few factory workers ARE foreigners!

Ideally public transport should be available for all regardless of class or income. However, in the BKK private concessionaire model it is much different. That being said, one can travel on some routes for free!

The fare structure for the BTS and MRT was always set to be priced for the middle class. There are both obvious financial reasons (private operators) and practical reasons for this.

In fact, according to the original concession agreement the current max fare should be around 65-69 baht. Instead, the BTSC has only been allowed small increases such that the max fare is around 30% less. PT won the 2011 election on the basis of introducing a flat 20 baht fare system for all metro lines.

Currently people bemoan overcrowding on the BTS & MRT (due to the operators not having purchased enough rolling stock). Can you imagine how much worse overcrowding would be with a 20 baht flat fare!! BKK would be Tokyo circle line style. Everything is a cost benefit analysis and decision. For the govt, the operator and the commuter. You can take the BTS and get there quicker or a slow bus for cheap. (Quite a few foreigners take buses to save money.....)

However, your factory worker example perhaps belies the point that most factory workers live in cheap crappy dorms adjacent to the factory in far flung outer area locations of BKK or mostly in neighboring provinces. So transport is usually not needed on a Monday morning. Access to a metro for their one day off a week is decades away. Songthaews and old buses (as you stated) are the mainstay of transport for most factory areas.

[Grawburg]

Gabonese women are hot! I hope you're taking the opportunity

Agreed... Apart from the pygmies.

please why not the pygmies?

Actually, they're not bad. This is a hidden monger gem....for those who are mongers....

Not so hot are the pygmies. I see them when I drive from Libreville to Lambarane. The forest pygmies have relocated from the jungle to the roadsides where they sell bushmeat and other supplies to drivers and road workers. Always a bit rough looking those pygmies.

[anotheruser]

Gabonese women are hot! I hope you're taking the opportunity

The OP mentions USA and west Africa for comparisons? Anywhere can beat those places. I think the mass transit is okay but if you are making a comparison it isn't on the level of somewhere like Tokyo. The MRT these days is more packed than Tokyo, a bit expensive for what it is and sometimes you have to wait for the next train because of over crowding. Sorry but if you compare this to the USA and West Africa you are making a farce and not a debate.

[anotheruser]

If there are two or more people on a short trip than taxi is normally cheaper than mass transit. Unless there are protests etc.

[Lakegeneve]

If there are two or more people on a short trip than taxi is normally cheaper than mass transit. Unless there are protests etc.

Or gridlocked bad traffic....

...which of course never happens in BKK!

Stuck in a taxi for 30mins moving 1km or do the same in a metro in 5mins. Easy choice! For many, time is more important than saving a few baht.

[tartempion]

BTS/MRT don't go anywhere.

I 'd rather ride the Buenos Aires 1913 metro, 5555 (they replaced the Belgian built carriages late 2013)

Brussels, Paris, Barcelona, Montreal, even Atlanta has one now, not when I lived there in the 1980ties, we had MARTA buses (Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta).

Wait an other 20 years before Bangkok will have a decent network.

[fishbrando]

with a 7inch display, an a pin marking where you want to go, its prety easy for him to figure out where you want to go on the STREET MAP - try it sometimes

A significant percentage of taxi drivers can't read a map in my experience. The van drivers are even worse.

The worst part is when you show them the map, they'll just nod like they can read it, but they have no idea what it says or where the hell you want to go.

[Lakegeneve]

BTS/MRT don't go anywhere.

Wait an other 20 years before Bangkok will have a decent network.

On the contrary, by 2017 BKK will have 2 new lines and 2 new exts. MRT Purple Line and SRT Dark Red LIne, the Bearing to SP ext and the MRT Blue Line loop (current underground). This will be a fairly good basic network by then - albeit 10 years late.

3-5 new lines will be under construction (Pink, Yellow, Grey, ARL Ext and BTS north ext to Lam Lukka). That is factoring in the assumed delays.

In 20 years time, most of the current 12 line Master plan by 2029 should be just about finished. Yes that is a 5 year grace for expected delays.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You seem a little confused. You mentioned the BRT, that is the single line Bus Rapid Transit that runs from Sathon to Ratchadapruek. It has a flat fare of 10 baht, hence my reply.

Re the BRT express bus line from Sathorn, I don't believe the 10 baht flat fare reference is correct, LG.

My wife and I take BRT all the time for a short two-station trip out from Sathorn, and the fare is only 5 baht per person one-way. All our two-station trips have been that same fare, the latest as recent as a couple weeks ago.

In reading some background on BRT fares, I see the system started out as a free trial, but later went to a 10 baht flat fare. But at that point, ridership dropped, so they went to a flat 5 baht fare that was supposed to last at least through the end of 2013.

Richard Barrow wrote as follows in this April 18, 2013 post:

When the BRT was first launched in 2010 the route had about 20,000 passengers per day. This was mainly due to the novelty of the new route and the fact that it was free for the first three months. When the fare was raised to a flat fare of 10 Baht the number of passengers dropped to only 16,000 people. Now, in an effort to get more people using the BRT, the flat fare has been reduced to only 5 Baht. This will last until the end of 2013.

I know the last time my wife and I took BRT, it was for a longer trip of about 6 stations, and the fare still was 5 baht per person. And that was just a couple weeks ago, certainly into 2014. How long it will last at that price, I don't know.

The BRT website, however, seems to show a fare chart that has various amounts based on the length of travel, ranging from 12 to 20 baht. It looks like that was their original fares plan, which never came to pass.

From 2 January 2011, commuters will be charged from 12 – 20 baht depending on the distance travel. It’s approximately 2 baht for every 2 – 3 stations.

http://www.tour-bangkok-legacies.com/bangkok-brt.html

Also, I see another reference to what their original BRT fare plan was:

Fare Rate

Starting from 15th May to 31st August 2010 using BRT service is free of charged after that service charges will be 10 bath per trip all calls to another 4 months and determination completely open on 2nd January 2011. The fare depending on distance from 12 bath up to 20 bath per person.

http://bangkok.sawadee.com/brt.htm

For me, it's the best 5 baht bus ride in Bangkok -- assuming this while elephant line goes where you want to go.

The Wikipedia entry on BRT says the Sathorn route was one of five express bus routes originally planned. But the only one built and opened, with the other four all cancelled or presumed cancelled. Dunno if that's still accurate or has changed over time.

Edited February 27, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Lakegeneve]

You seem a little confused. You mentioned the BRT, that is the single line Bus Rapid Transit that runs from Sathon to Ratchadapruek. It has a flat fare of 10 baht, hence my reply.

Re the BRT express bus line from Sathorn, I don't believe the 10 baht flat fare reference is correct, LG.

The Wikipedia entry on BRT says the Sathorn route was one of five express bus routes originally planned. But the only one built and opened, with the other four all cancelled or presumed cancelled. Dunno if that's still accurate or has changed over time.

Yes I was wrong, Thank you for the correction.

I had completely forgot that it was reduced to 5 baht by the BMA last year. That indicates how long it is since I last used it. It is a great service for those on Naratiwat rd and the eastern end of Rama 3. However, beyond that point where it loses its bus lane it obviously is not much better than a normal bus. As such it wasn't fully implemented as a BRT which is why pax numbers are less than they could be.

In terms of future routes, both the BMA and OTP had competing plans back in 05/06 for 10 or 11 lines!

What both did agree on was that the next line would be a Mo Chit to MTT via the government center on Chaeng Wattana (a depot site at MTT was sought but never finalised). This is still somewhere in the vague plans of the future.

A little historical overview:

OTP plans from early 2005;

1) Bang Khae-Rangsit, 2) NBIA-Don Muang, 3) MMT-Samut Prakarn, 4)Suvinthawong-Talin Chan, 5) Ram lntra Km8-Phetkasem, 6) Phra Samut Jedi-Siam Square, 7) SBT-Ekkamai, 8) Rama ll-Ram lntra, 9) Rangsit-Chatuchak

BMA responds in mid 2007

18 July 05

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) is raising 15 billion baht through a bond issue and mobilisation of public funds to finance three major projects, two of them infrastructural improvements. Panich Vikitset, the Bangkok deputy governor, said the Kasikornbank would be hired as a consultant and planner for the investment.

Five billion baht would be spent building four more Bus Rapid Transit routes, branching out from the existing Mor Chit-Kilometre 8 and Rama II Road-Ratchapruek Road routes.

By early 2007 this became the BMAs 4 route priorities;

1) Donmuang - Minburi - Suvannabhum (38 km)

2) Pakkret - Mochit (18.7 km)

3) Minburi - Sri Nakharin - Bearing (25 km)

4) Bang Na - Suvannabhum (15.6 km)

And in late 2007;

A second route from Mo Chit Skytrain terminal in Chatuchak to Chaeng Wattana government centre in Nonthaburi will start in mid-2009. This 13.5-kilometre route will have eight stops and will cost Bt1.5 billion. Five other routes are awaiting BMA consideration over the next three years. The total distance covered will eventually reach 120 kilometres and will take three years and Bt12.89 billion to build.

The proposed routes are Surawong-Ratchaphruek-Pracha Uthit (23 kilometres at a cost of Bt2.17 billion); Don Muang-Min Buri-Suvarna-bhumi Airport (38 kilometres at Bt4.53 billion); Pak Kret-Mo Chit (18.7 kilometres at Bt1.12 billion); Min Buri-Srinakarin-Soi Bearing (25 kilometres at Bt31.2 billion) and Bang Na-Suvarnabhumi Airport (15.6 kilometres at Bt1.93 billion).

More recently the BMA plan in 2011 was to provide feeder services to the Pink and Orange line for the east (politics in this as the east is a Phue Thai stronghold);

As of now, the BRT plans appear to be progressing even slower than a few new metro lines.