Poll: Which Condo Would You Buy?

[Rice_King]

I have the option to purchase two condos. I can only buy ONE.

The condos are located in separate buildings, about 1 km apart. Both units are on the same floor and have very similar views. The purchase price for BOTH condos is exactly the same. The ONLY major physical difference is in the floor area -- Condo 2 is almost twice the size as Condo 1.

Condo 1 is in a very nice, well-maintained building and is a well respected and highly sought address among the farang populace. It is ready to move in now.

Condo 2 is in a bit of a dumpy building and doesn't appear to be maintained very well. I will need to invest at least 20,000 baht to make it livable. It has TWICE the floor space as Condo 1.

Which one is the better deal?

Edited May 28, 2006 by Rice_King

[Gary A]

I couldn't vote because it's a lot more complicated than that. The very first thing I would look at is how the complex is maintained. A VERY nice unit in a poorly maintained building will not be pleasant to live in or to try to sell. Neighbors are a big consideration too. Would you want a family of ten people living next to you in a 32 square meter condo?

The second thing is that you will most likely NOT be happy to live in a shoe box no matter how nice it and the complex are. I would say to buy a minimum 56 square meter unit that is arranged to already have or add a separate bedroom. Small units may be fine for a holiday but I wouldn't want to live in one long term.

Larger, especially corner units sell for a premium for a reason.

[cobra]

I think you really have to strike a balance,

Nice but small will eventually feel even smaller, what to do if unexpected guest(s) need to stay for a few days ?

Lots of space but run-down, higher maint cost to bring up to desired level of creature comfort, low comfort factor with less than desirable neighborhood,

Balance,

[LindsayBKK]

I have the option to purchase two condos. I can only buy ONE.

The condos are located in separate buildings, about 1 km apart. Both units are on the same floor and have very similar views. The purchase price for BOTH condos is exactly the same. The ONLY major physical difference is in the floor area -- Condo 2 is almost twice the size as Condo 1.

Condo 1 is in a very nice, well-maintained building and is a well respected and highly sought address among the farang populace. It is ready to move in now.

Condo 2 is in a bit of a dumpy building and doesn't appear to be maintained very well. I will need to invest at least 20,000 baht to make it livable. It has TWICE the floor space as Condo 1.

Which one is the better deal?

Only 20,000bht? My bf spent 250,000 doing up a small shoe box in Soi 1 Suhkumvit (behind Bummangrad Hospital) rent is still only 12,00bht a month so I would go the second. But depends on location if one is closer to transport then maybe the first condo you are better off. You also didn't mention body corp fees and facilities etc.... that can be a big factor. My current body corp fees are about abit under 3000bht/mth (incl water). Good building management is important, our place at soi 1 the girl there doesn't do a very good job maintaining the building and it always looks rundown so fees are cheaper but where I am at Victory Monument they do everything so thats why we are paying 3000bht/mth. good luck with it.

[pkrv]

Interesting question, but too tricky to vote in - not enough info.

Classy 2 bed apartment 150 sq meters, cheaper apartment 300 sq meters - I would go for classy.

Classy 1-bed apartment 40 sq meters, cheaper 1-bed apartment 80 sq meters - I would go for cheaper.

What was the price and floor size?

[backflip]

Easy choice. If you buy in a dumpy building and fix up your unit, you still live in a dumpy building. Very few people want to live in a dumpy building. My choice was even easier: I bought a great unit, in a great building, at a great price. Although I purchased it only 2 years ago, similar units are now selling for twice what I paid for. Woohoo!

[Rice_King]

CORRECTION: Should be 200,000 baht and NOT 20,000 baht to make Condo 2 a pretty nice place.

ADDITIONAL INFO: Condo 1 is 45 Sq meter. Condo 2 is 85 sq meter.

Hopefully this info will make it a little clearer about the decision I have to make.

Thanks!

[trajan]

how dumpy is the cheaper building? is it just an older building (but in an equally good location?)....

r u buying the unit to live in (short or long term) or to rent out?...

Edited May 28, 2006 by trajan

[ZZZ]

Have been in the same seat myself a few times, tried both ways and always horribly regretted taking the dump.

Go for the nice option, it pays in the long run.

[Rice_King]

how dumpy is the cheaper building? is it just an older building (but in an equally good location?)....

r u buying the unit to live in (short or long term) or to rent out?...

Trajan:

The dumpy building could use a new coat of paint, some nice landscaping, and a good interior cleaning. The 2 lifts work but are small and scuffed and are showing their use. (The nice building has roomy lifts that look like practically new.)

The two units are so close together that I cannot see any real advantage that one address would have over the other. Both units have the same beautiful view as they both face the same direction on the compass.

I will be living in whichever one I buy.

[trajan]

If it were me, I would go for the building that has better maintence....all things being equal, the nicer one will probably hold its value much longer.....the one with bad maintenance will go downhill much faster (probably down exponentially faster because the condo fees are probably lower, the tenants as a whole probably have a different profile, and the condo juristic person manager is probably not as professional and hands-off etc.....)

I was in a similar circumstance a few years ago (but with a bit bigger area space)....I have not regretted taking the smaller but better maintained unit....(the monthly fees are higher, but the management is great....periodic exterior painting, periodic exterior window washing, car park floor scrubing, pool upkeep, constant lobby cleaning and hallway cleaning, stricter adherence to rules for the benefit of owners (like not allowing people to change the exterior look of their doors---the other building's manager just let it go and it now looks like a hodgepodge mess on each floor), updating of the gym, etc.)...

[The Skipper]

.

5000 empty condos out there.

Why not get a nice big place?

Keep looking.

[LaoPo]

CORRECTION: Should be 200,000 baht and NOT 20,000 baht to make Condo 2 a pretty nice place.

ADDITIONAL INFO: Condo 1 is 45 Sq meter. Condo 2 is 85 sq meter.

Hopefully this info will make it a little clearer about the decision I have to make.

Thanks!

If show-off isn't important to you....go for the larger condo and spend 200/250K (which is small bucks anyway) and live comfortable.

45 sq Meter is VERY...VERY SMALL and the walls will keep coming to you if you spend the weekend there .....but...

if it's just for sleeping...well, than go for the smaller one.

I would go for the bigger apartment...but who am I ?

But I agree also with The Skipper who said:

"""5000 empty condos out there.

Why not get a nice big place?

Keep looking."""

LaoPo

[ProThaiExpat]

A long time condo owner in the west, I came to Thailand and rented a condo. Building well thought of but common area maintenance was poor and many rental units, thus the ride in the elevator was problematical.

Living in a 25 sq. meter condo for the last eight months, my home in Chiang Mai is 200 sq. meters, and I am shocked at how comfortable I am.

Renting condos in Pattaya, I was never comfortable due to the layout and they were all 40 sq. meters or larger. All the condos I have seen in Thailand are usually a long rectangle with a bathroom cut out of the front part next to the front door.

Wondering why I am enjoying this 25 sq. meter condo in Australia, I have determined that it is the layout. Enter into the lounge area with the kitchen to the right against the outside wall, partial walls delineate the space. Door way into the bedroom between the kitchen area and the lounge. Bedroom has doorway into bath, the wall opposite the entry door separates the bath from the lounge.

The bedroom is just large enough for the queen size bed and the built in wardrobes, which are against the bathroom wall. Amazing how well it works. The condo is a square, on a corner so windows in all rooms, as the kitchen windows provide the light for the lounge.

My point is, the layout of the space is critical when one gets into small spaces. Condo "lingo" among realtors the world over speaks of "good" buildings and their advice is only buy into a good building. A "good" building means a building that is well managed, where residents are mostly owners rather than renters, and the management association or company is active and cares.

My view on condos in Thailand is that many Thais don't may their condo fees so buildings deteriorate due to poor maintenance and the laws are not strong enough to enforce the rules. A "good" well maintained building, allowing for a few years to pass so the developers are out and not helping with maintenace fees to sell more units, is the place to be for these reasons and many more.

[Rice_King]

Sorry! Repeating myself.

-RK

Edited May 29, 2006 by Rice_King

[Rice_King]

ProThaiExpat:

You make some valid points and you are "spot-on" about the floorplans here. Most condos in Thailand that I have seen are just as you described, "a rectangle."

From past experience, I know that condo / building management is key. I bought a condo in California in the 80s. Unbeknownst to me at the time of purchase, the condo association had just sued (this IS California) and won a 1 million dollar judgement aginst the builder for substandard materials, shoddy workmanship, and code violations. Thus, the condo association was flush with money. We employed those funds diligently, and made that place an absolute showcase. I lived there just 30 months and when I sold it, I realized a $30,000 USD profit.

LaoPo:

Yes, 45 square meters is a small living space. But at 45 square meters, Condo 1 has almost 10 more square meters than the studio unit I have lived in for the last 2 years.

Thanks for the inputs.

--RK

[LindsayBKK]

Even @ 200,000 bht to fix up the condo is still ok. Having the place in the colours you like and new lights and fittings etc. Glass bricks are a good option to allow more light into Kitchens,Bathrooms etc. maybe worth getting all the electrical and plumbing checked at the same time to decrease further expences later. Well I would anyway. Thats if you can find a good builder/handyman ooops handyperson. We have to be political correct these days I have been changing lightbulbs and all I can say is the wiring sux! I'll be getting all the wiring checked.

[Wolfie]

.

5000 empty condos out there.

Why not get a nice big place?

Keep looking.

Agreed...

... Well Said Skipper

[RAZZELL]

Location...location...location...

[pkrv]

An interesting dilemma. I sort of answered your question accidentally, when I gave examples and said there was not enough information.

Agreed that everyone has budgets, however I would say that 40 sq meters would be a developers dream (not the dream of the people who live there). If the developer has packed in so many apartments what else have they cut back on that has yet to show up?

In a way I agree with 'the_skipper' keep looking, but also check on the other building. Thailand is an up and coming country, if the building is established, sound, and has a good mechanism for collecting maintenance fees then things will adjust over time, size won't.

[monochaser]

I'm renting a 166 sq mtr condo in bkk for 51K and am delighted. for me location is main thing followed by size and luxury. No buying for me though

[ilyushin]

Keep shopping! Bargains available.

[manchestermike]

Hello Rice King

Is the location Thonglor ?

I have been living in Thailand for 3 years and just bought under exactly the same circumstances.

I went for the older bigger unit and am very happy with my choice. A few points thou ..

1, Your rennovation budget is very low.. I think you need at least 500 K

2, biggest problems I had was with my building contractor, think long and hard and ask to see their work. Unfortunately their quality standard will be below yours.

3, Give very clear instructions to the builder including drawings.

4, You may find many other units are being renovated in the same building. Can be a pain during the day, If you work office hours it wont affect you.

I was able to buy and put the unit directly in my own name no company or Thai female involved.

Good luck with your choice..

[Rice_King]

Hello Rice King

Is the location Thonglor ?

Thanks for the good advice MM. No, the location is not Thonglor. It is here in Chaing Mai.

[bolt]

hi i am stuck with the same dilema, got 4 mill, i would like to have good base to start with.

but how many condos can a non thai own ?, does it have to be company if more than 1?

[billaaa777]

This is a really good question. And since I buy, renovate and sell quite a few condos in Pattaya I would like to respond.

First, to completely renovate an 85 SQ to western standards your cost will be between 400,000 to 500,000 and that is a minimum. High quality furniture, marble instead of tile, a full kitchen with good appliances, are new air conditioners required, or a superb bathroom will all add to the minimum estimate. And this estimate is based on you being knowledgeable of construction and design and doing the research required to get the best price on all your materials and labor. Even after renovating all the condos I have, I still make mistakes that cost me money. Next, be aware if your hiring a Thai contractor they are going to do everything they can as cheap as possible which results in a fairly average to poor job. You will need to be there, buy ALL of your materials and constantly be giving instructions on their work. Never and I mean NEVER give them a large deposit for their work, pay them as they completed each individual task.

Each buyer of a condo has different preferences and you should determine what your most important feature is. The following is a list I find most of my buyers have considered.

A) Location

View

C) The condition of the condo.

D) The condition of the building.

E) Size of condo.

F) Design of condo.

G) Planning on living there for an extended period or are you purchasing it as an investment.

H) Building features, such as a pool, parking, shops in the building, etc.

Other factors to consider are, the smaller condo your contemplating in the nicer building I am almost positive is at the top end of it price range and your return on your investment will only increase with the natural appreciation of the building. Where as, the larger condo you’re considering purchasing and renovating you will almost surly get a fairly nice appreciation upon completion of project.

[Rice_King]

This is a really good question. And since I buy, renovate and sell quite a few condos in Pattaya I would like to respond.

First, to completely renovate an 85 SQ to western standards your cost will be between 400,000 to 500,000 and that is a minimum. High quality furniture, marble instead of tile, a full kitchen with good appliances, are new air conditioners required, or a superb bathroom will all add to the minimum estimate. And this estimate is based on you being knowledgeable of construction and design and doing the research required to get the best price on all your materials and labor. Even after renovating all the condos I have, I still make mistakes that cost me money. Next, be aware if your hiring a Thai contractor they are going to do everything they can as cheap as possible which results in a fairly average to poor job. You will need to be there, buy ALL of your materials and constantly be giving instructions on their work. Never and I mean NEVER give them a large deposit for their work, pay them as they completed each individual task.

Each buyer of a condo has different preferences and you should determine what your most important feature is. The following is a list I find most of my buyers have considered.

A) Location

View

C) The condition of the condo.

D) The condition of the building.

E) Size of condo.

F) Design of condo.

G) Planning on living there for an extended period or are you purchasing it as an investment.

H) Building features, such as a pool, parking, shops in the building, etc.

Other factors to consider are, the smaller condo your contemplating in the nicer building I am almost positive is at the top end of it price range and your return on your investment will only increase with the natural appreciation of the building. Where as, the larger condo you’re considering purchasing and renovating you will almost surly get a fairly nice appreciation upon completion of project.

Time for an update to this post...

Counter to what the poll suggested, I decided to buy the smaller condo. I weighed the options and looked at the facts and decided that the smaller unit was a better fit for me.

I put a lot of "weight" on how noisy a place is. I discovered AFTER I posted the poll that the unit that I did not buy has a bad reputation for noise due to a nearby karaoke.

The place I bought has a great view and is situated in a great location. The building is clean, well maintained, well managed, quiet, and has good security. Besides the additional living area, the larger unit (the one that I passed on) ONLY has two good things -- a great view and good location.

Thanks go out to everyone who posted comments to this question.

--RK

[Thaipwriter]

Classy one? Or the "dump" with twice the space?

Location...location...location...

Location has to be your primary consideration.

Size does matter though, the missus keeps telling me.

[johnb]

I'm renting a 166 sq mtr condo in bkk for 51K and am delighted. for me location is main thing followed by size and luxury. No buying for me though

Monochaser

Just out of curiosity why is your preferance to rent rather than buy? If you buy presumably you have a capital gain when you decide to sell in the future but with renting you dont?

Just interested

Johnb

[RAZZELL]

I'm renting a 166 sq mtr condo in bkk for 51K and am delighted. for me location is main thing followed by size and luxury. No buying for me though

Monochaser

Just out of curiosity why is your preferance to rent rather than buy? If you buy presumably you have a capital gain when you decide to sell in the future but with renting you dont?

Just interested

Johnb

I think "presumably" is the operative word...