No use of force against protesters: Civil Court

[Crushdepth]

The court has basically taken the ability to maintain law and order, to enforce the law, away from the civilian government. It sets a precedent and effectively undermines the authority of the government. I believe that upon appeal the judgement would have to be reversed. The fundamental right of protest would remain, but a legally elected government must have the ability to ensure that laws are enforced. The alternative is anarchy, which is perhaps what these judges want.

Depends what you think 'force' is. Bullet through the head reasonable?

By the way do you still think the rice scheme is a good idea ?

Sent from somewhere in the Pacific

I don't think the poor police officer or his family thought that was reasonable for just going to work. I agree with you it was not reasonable action against a young man just doing his job, You and I stand together to salute this young man.

I think CrushDepth was referring to the protester that got a bullet through the head.

I was, but shooting the police officer was also completely unacceptable. It frustrates me that the shooters never get caught, even when their faces are shown nationwide.

Sent from somewhere in the Pacific

[NoshowJones]

I agree entirely. Good post.

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SICHONSTEVE]

So whats the purpose of the emergency decree if the government can't use violence and can't arrest protesters? Why even have a emergency decree if its no different than normally?

Because protesting peacefully is legal and the emergency decree should only be enforced if there is a threat to national security.

Section 4. of the interpretation as to when it can be put in place states that:

"states of emergency" means a situation that affects or may affect public order or endangers the security of the state or may cause the country or any part of the country to fall into a state of acute difficulty or a situation resulting from an offence relating to terrorism under the penal code.

In other words, it shouldn't have been enforced in the first place!!!

[seajae]

The court has basically taken the ability to maintain law and order, to enforce the law, away from the civilian government. It sets a precedent and effectively undermines the authority of the government. I believe that upon appeal the judgement would have to be reversed. The fundamental right of protest would remain, but a legally elected government must have the ability to ensure that laws are enforced. The alternative is anarchy, which is perhaps what these judges want.

they are not the "legally elected govt", they stepped down from that position last year and as yet the elections have not been finalized so they are infact simply a stand in mob while we wait for the verdict. Basically this means what you wrote does not compute and is simply not acceptable as any kind of truth, just another load of red garbage.

Edited February 19, 2014 by seajae

[kikoman]

There is no way the court can direct the police not to react with deadly force when deadly force is used against them, the Court solely banned force against peaceful protesters. If the protesters are not peaceful that is another thing completely. Charlerm is still required to enforce the law of the land which also requires him to remove protesters from unlawfully occupying state property.

All he needs to do is to invite more media along on their operations, and make sure he has videos of any and all clashes, embedding reporter in to his operation like the US Army has done in Iraq and Afghanistan! All it means is the police must document when protesters act un-peacefully!

Cheers

[BlueNoseCodger]

So whats the purpose of the emergency decree if the government can't use violence and can't arrest protesters? Why even have a emergency decree if its no different than normally?

Because protesting peacefully is legal and the emergency decree should only be enforced if there is a threat to national security.

Section 4. of the interpretation as to when it can be put in place states that:

"states of emergency" means a situation that affects or may affect public order or endangers the security of the state or may cause the country or any part of the country to fall into a state of acute difficulty or a situation resulting from an offence relating to terrorism under the penal code.

In other words, it shouldn't have been enforced in the first place!!!

means a situation that affects or may affect public order

What? I don't see your argument, they're throwing hand grenades and shooting policemen in the middle of Bangkok. How is that not 'affecting public order'!

[kikoman]

The court has basically taken the ability to maintain law and order, to enforce the law, away from the civilian government. It sets a precedent and effectively undermines the authority of the government. I believe that upon appeal the judgement would have to be reversed. The fundamental right of protest would remain, but a legally elected government must have the ability to ensure that laws are enforced. The alternative is anarchy, which is perhaps what these judges want.

they are not the "legally elected govt", they stepped down from that position last year and as yet the elections have not been finalized so they are infact simply a stand in mob while we wait for the verdict. Basically this means what you wrote does not compute and is simply not acceptable as any kind of truth, just another load of red garbage.

What a Crock! The PTP is still the government in Thailand and it would take more the words of a powerless farang, to legally deny them the responsibility of the elected government (that is in a care taker status) the Corruption of the military Junta installed court was devised that way on its inception, to be an arms of protecting the control of the rich elite establishment,

They did not step down from anything they became the care taker government, but are still the elected government of Thailand, not matter what some powerless Farang thinks!

Cheers

[whybother]

What a Crock! The PTP is still the government in Thailand and it would take more the words of a powerless farang, to legally deny them the responsibility of the elected government (that is in a care taker status) the Corruption of the military Junta installed court was devised that way on its inception, to be an arms of protecting the control of the rich elite establishment,

They did not step down from anything they became the care taker government, but are still the elected government of Thailand, not matter what some powerless Farang thinks!

Cheers

When Yingluck dissolved parliament, the status of the government changed to that of being care-takers. That means that they have less legal standing to do certain things (such as getting the country into further debt).

[BlueNoseCodger]

Having read the Khao Sod article it seems there literally nothing left of the Emergency Decree except the immunity to officers who enforce it. But there is nothing lleft to enforce.

No doubt Chalerm, Tarit, YL et al will refuse to recognise the authority of the court again but that will lead to criminal prosecutions, if they try to continue enforcing the SOE and courts won't approve arrest warrants under it. Rules of evidence are tougher under other laws.

I am not sure if the ruling is retroactive which could lead to prosecutions for actions already undertaken under the decree.

It seems to be a two parter, I just heard on the news that they're now going to DSI claiming government is shooting them and demanding courts protect them. With hand grenades being thrown by PDRC at police, and their shooters killing police, they want the courts to protect them from police?! So it seems we're full on judicial coup now!

The army would normally have been the first stop for a coup surely? So it means the army does not want to go down with Suthep and I can see why.

The election commission that won't do an election, and claims criticism of it is to win elections, that have already been won! I don't see how that's going to play well in the world.

NACC bringing corruption charges for negligence in stopping corruption it hasn't claimed yet. R-i-g-h-t, no politics there.

It's all getting very comic. Suppose they get Yingluk out, who do they propose as PM? Abhisit? Prayuth? Anand? Suthep?

I think the big problem for you guys is that you can scream about Yingluk and make negative endless comments claims and lies putting down Thailand and PT, but you can't put a person forward and offer a single ray of hope.

Not a single ray of hope. Just some sort of doom and gloom, where everything is corrupt, the courts block the police, gunmen roam the streets killing people and it's illegal to stop them! And no railways are made, and no minimum wage, and the sick can't get healthcare and are left to die like buffaloes, and the rich get super duper rich, and nobody needs to get elected, so nobody needs to listen to Thai people, and if we disagree, you'll throw handgrenades at us and shoot us!?

It's a bleak future, and all the stuff they're doing now, it's all destroying Thailand. All to gain power.

[Patpending]

somebody had enough of courts siding with militia and decided to strike back.

Suthep and his clan are very isolated. they appear bigger than they are due to the media and army being on their side. not enough in the real world though is it.!!

they will pick them off away from asoke. might take a long time, but they are getting the leaders and they are picking off the sheep.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1088234

[fasteddie]

Do you actually believe YL aNd Chalerm will follow any Cc ruling? They dont even follow their own constitution. They have been told many times and they gave speeches that they would not try to stop the protests. Yet each passing day they have proven that they do what they want and dont care about the peoples laws or care the people. They will do ANYTHING to make their position stronger and to make it appear they are in control.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I wonder about that too...and what this ruling will mean to this government, if anything.

AFAIR, the day before the assault on protesters, Chalerm and Co. were claiming they would only employ "peaceful" means. Which, of course, ended up being rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire.

So if the authorities consider rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire as "peaceful" means, then they're probably thinking they're in compliance with a court order for no "violence" or "force". Not that they've ever concerned themselves too much with what the courts have ruled.

"Which, of course, ended up being rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire."

In response to live fire and grenades.

What isn't violent about storming and occupying army HQ, police stations and government buildings, beating and shooting voters, murdering policemen and attacking police lines with live fire and grenades?

What chance has democracy got? The old guard will not let go.

[fasteddie]

Conspiracy nutters take note: The court did not support the democrat-led petition to lift the state of emergency. This is obviously further evidence of a judicial coup. Spot on The plot thickens Yellow Bellies every wheres

GOOD LUCK YINGLUCK

Good luck Suthep. Or as I like to call him. The Mandela of the East.

Your comparisons are perverse and an insult to the memory of a great man.

Mandela fought to free a nation, whilst Suthep fights to keep a nation enslaved.

You need to see a psychiatrist.

[the thrue]

Amazing...Judges protecting the armed mob? Amazing Thailand..

[TVGerry]

Do you actually believe YL aNd Chalerm will follow any Cc ruling? They dont even follow their own constitution. They have been told many times and they gave speeches that they would not try to stop the protests. Yet each passing day they have proven that they do what they want and dont care about the peoples laws or care the people. They will do ANYTHING to make their position stronger and to make it appear they are in control.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I wonder about that too...and what this ruling will mean to this government, if anything.

AFAIR, the day before the assault on protesters, Chalerm and Co. were claiming they would only employ "peaceful" means. Which, of course, ended up being rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire.

So if the authorities consider rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire as "peaceful" means, then they're probably thinking they're in compliance with a court order for no "violence" or "force". Not that they've ever concerned themselves too much with what the courts have ruled.

"Which, of course, ended up being rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire."

In response to live fire and grenades.

What isn't violent about storming and occupying army HQ, police stations and government buildings, beating and shooting voters, murdering policemen and attacking police lines with live fire and grenades?

What chance has democracy got? The old guard will not let go.

In response to live fire and grenades? You're assuming the protestors fired first. If the police were the ones who started shooting and caused the gunfight then they have themselves to blame for the bloodshed. Murdering policemen? You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that more protestors have been shot dead as compared to policemen.

[the thrue]

SORRY TV Gerry! Looks like you have been in another country then Thailand since november. The pictures and videos on the mobs shooting and violence have been spread in the world media since they started. Atacking old women, strangling voters, sthrowing granades on police, shooting police.......Dont try to turn head on educated people. It is year 2014..........

[TVGerry]

SORRY TV Gerry! Looks like you have been in another country then Thailand since november. The pictures and videos on the mobs shooting and violence have been spread in the world media since they started. Atacking old women, strangling voters, sthrowing granades on police, shooting police.......Dont try to turn head on educated people. It is year 2014..........

Another 'new' poster!

There are also pictures of the 'unarmed' police firing into the crowd. So what? While a picture is worth a thousand words, it's easier to count the dead bodies. And more protestors have been murdered than there have been policemen killed since this whole mess began. It was 4 dead protestors to 1 dead policeman yesterday if you need reminding.

[magnbol]

No use of force against protesters: Civil Court

"The court also..... whose demonstrations have so far been conducted peacefully."

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-02-19

Oh please, doesn't The Nation feel embarrassed to write such lie?

How can they even begin to call this "peaceful demonstrations"??

Sent from the Appie Tappie

[the thrue]

TV GERRY some of the dead protesters are killed of other then policemen. Night shooting, granades etc....You can understand who is behind some of that.....Some other cases like the shooting today of other groups. -Looks like some people belive that its okey to take away an elected goverment, block people to vote, take away democracy without any respons.....? In what country in the history have that strategy been succesful.........? That dont work 2014

[TVGerry]

TV GERRY some of the dead protesters are killed of other then policemen. Night shooting, granades etc....You can understand who is behind some of that.....Some other cases like the shooting today of other groups. -Looks like some people belive that its okey to take away an elected goverment, block people to vote, take away democracy without any respons.....? In what country in the history have that strategy been succesful.........? That dont work 2014

Of course the police are going to deny responsibility. According to them, the protestors shot dead yesterday were killed by a mysterious 'third party'. That's always been the tactic of this failed government. Blame someone else when something goes wrong. But it's okay, there are always not so intelligent people who believe them. I guess that strategy works partially.

[than]

Conspiracy nutters take note: The court did not support the democrat-led petition to lift the state of emergency. This is obviously further evidence of a judicial coup. Spot on The plot thickens Yellow Bellies every wheres

GOOD LUCK YINGLUCK

Good luck Suthep. Or as I like to call him. The Mandela of the East.

Your comparisons are perverse and an insult to the memory of a great man.

Mandela fought to free a nation, whilst Suthep fights to keep a nation enslaved.

You need to see a psychiatrist.

You' re reason , u need to see psychiatric too if u want to continue to live under corrupt dictatorial PT goverment

[englishoak]

Hand-grenades are peaceful protest tools now. Boy thats stretching things a tad. Do we have to see the courts being any more blatant ?

ahh well nevermind it wont be the first or last time.

[than]

Hand-grenades are peaceful protest tools now. Boy thats stretching things a tad. Do we have to see the courts being any more blatant ?

ahh well nevermind it wont be the first or last time.

Like police fire live bullet in front of protester, and beaten women on floor like coward.... thanks to foreign media to covert this clash........

[Bkkbound]

Hand-grenades are peaceful protest tools now. Boy thats stretching things a tad. Do we have to see the courts being any more blatant ?

ahh well nevermind it wont be the first or last time.

Like police fire live bullet in front of protester, and beaten women on floor like coward.... thanks to foreign media to covert this clash........

There's a lot on social media , both Thai and english, there are some gory pictures of taksin and chalerms deaths in police uniforms being circulated and the Keystone cops have really overplayed their hand, not surprising when they are led by Charlie Chalerm.

The Shin lovers cannot have it both ways, democracy is everything but then allow an untrained armed force loose on anti gov protestors with high powered rifles and hand grenades (admittedly the grenades are more of a threat to the inept officers issued them) and claim this is all in the cause of defending democracy..

[englishoak]

Whether people like it or not the current court rulings are/will be setting precedents for the future.

If you feel the actions of the protesters are fully justified and that the court decisions are correct purely based on your current grievances this could turn out to be very short sighted if you do not feel that they would be the right decision regardless of the protest grievance.

The next protest which you do not agree with will have the same rights, they could be blocking your place of business, your home peacefully and unarmed so perfectly within their rights but still taking away the rights from you if you happen to be in their area or work for a business they have a grievance against.

No matter which side you are on there needs to be level heads making the decisions that are not only sensible for the current protests but for every future protest.

I am not commenting specifically on this judgement and not just because I do not fully understand what it means but my point is that sensible unbiased decisions are in everyone's best interest in the long term.

Thai courts and the judicial system do not apply any rulings as precedents in future cases. Every case has to start from 0 with no previous similar cases taken into account. its all upto the guys in wigs at the time, great system huh ?

[fasteddie]

Do you actually believe YL aNd Chalerm will follow any Cc ruling? They dont even follow their own constitution. They have been told many times and they gave speeches that they would not try to stop the protests. Yet each passing day they have proven that they do what they want and dont care about the peoples laws or care the people. They will do ANYTHING to make their position stronger and to make it appear they are in control.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I wonder about that too...and what this ruling will mean to this government, if anything.

AFAIR, the day before the assault on protesters, Chalerm and Co. were claiming they would only employ "peaceful" means. Which, of course, ended up being rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire.

So if the authorities consider rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire as "peaceful" means, then they're probably thinking they're in compliance with a court order for no "violence" or "force". Not that they've ever concerned themselves too much with what the courts have ruled.

"Which, of course, ended up being rubber bullets, tear gas and live fire."

In response to live fire and grenades.

What isn't violent about storming and occupying army HQ, police stations and government buildings, beating and shooting voters, murdering policemen and attacking police lines with live fire and grenades?

What chance has democracy got? The old guard will not let go.

In response to live fire and grenades? You're assuming the protestors fired first. If the police were the ones who started shooting and caused the gunfight then they have themselves to blame for the bloodshed. Murdering policemen? You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that more protestors have been shot dead as compared to policemen.

"You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that more protestors have been shot dead as compared to policemen."

I'm not ignoring anything, R.I.P. to all of them, poor innocents betrayed by those they trust, Suthep promised them there would be no armed protesters and uses them as cover for his nefarious shenanigans.

[the thrue]

The people who try to turn the head on peopleand call this protesters peaceful. -Who are they think they can sheet? The world media have been full of pictures and videos of violent armed protestors.....A militant mob who brake law after law and a juridical biased system who let them free when the police have arrest them....

Amazing Thailand!

I am thinking about what this movement try to reach.....Take away an elected goverment, block fresh elections, try to make a coup (juridical or military) with the purpose to take away the majoritys popular party. -What are they earn? -CIVIL WAR?

[TVGerry]

"You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that more protestors have been shot dead as compared to policemen."

I'm not ignoring anything, R.I.P. to all of them, poor innocents betrayed by those they trust, Suthep promised them there would be no armed protesters and uses them as cover for his nefarious shenanigans.

You can say it was Suthep but I say they were killed by a government desperate to cling onto power.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Section 4. of the interpretation as to when it can be put in place states that:

"states of emergency" means a situation that affects or may affect public order or endangers the security of the state or may cause the country or any part of the country to fall into a state of acute difficulty or a situation resulting from an offence relating to terrorism under the penal code.

In other words, it shouldn't have been enforced in the first place!!!

Blocking major intersections, preventing people from voting and blocking access to government buildings for prolonged periods and refusing to vacate when ordered (lets even forget about firing on and attacking police) would certainly meet the criteria you're mentioning.

I believe Thaksin and anyone with ongoing connections to him should be banned from politics but this constant unlawful behavior because you don't like who is in power has got to stop. If these mobs get their way then in 2-years we will see the other side's mob back in the street until they get their way.

This is not the way to effect positive and prolonged change and in fact it ensures the opposite. .

Edited February 19, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[sirineou]

BANGKOK: -- The Civil Court on Wednesday ruled the state of emergency cannot be used as a reason for clamping down on the anti-government demonstrators.

But it can be used for , Floral arrangements, interpretive dancing, and poetry reading.

TIT

Ohh sorry I forgot, the Police could also tickle them to submission.

Edited February 19, 2014 by sirineou

[TVGerry]

The people who try to turn the head on peopleand call this protesters peaceful. -Who are they think they can sheet? The world media have been full of pictures and videos of violent armed protestors.....A militant mob who brake law after law and a juridical biased system who let them free when the police have arrest them....

Amazing Thailand!

I am thinking about what this movement try to reach.....Take away an elected goverment, block fresh elections, try to make a coup (juridical or military) with the purpose to take away the majoritys popular party. -What are they earn? -CIVIL WAR?

Yingluck? Is that you?