Racism or Am I Just too Sensitive.

[garyinhuahin]

In this world, including Thailand, there's always a "pecking order".

Rich get priority over poor.

Educated get priority over uneducated.

1st class passengers get priority over economy passengers.

And whether it right or wrong, which I'm not inferring, a white "customer" will get priority over an Indian "customer".

And the OP should be aware of this passing through his life.

Chinese "think" they are high on the pecking order, therefore they "jump" queues.

Russians, likewise, think the same, therefore they shout alot and are quite rude compared to Europeans.

And another "perception" is that Indians are sneaky and try get the lowest lowest price.

This post IS NOT intended to be a "racist" post IN ANY WAY, but is a response to the OP's comments on the reality of life.

My perception is that Chinese and Russians just never learned what we consider ordinary manners. Chalk it up to the Marxist-Leninist decades.

[BradinAsia]

You cry racism yet refer to others as farangs. tut tut.

A farang is a farang. What else can you call a farang?

[pkspeaker]

What about the indian Thai siks that live here and have Thai citizenship? I have seen them around several times, i know it's them because they speak to each other in Thai, Thai is their first language even though they look and dress like people from india.. i have never seen the other Thaipeople be rude to them..

By 'Indian nationality' I assume you mean Indian descent. How did you manage to learn Thai without noticing that the Thais despise Indians? And it's not just Indians. Khaek also includes Arabs and Persians, so you're not alone. Have a guess what they call African Americans. It's just what Asia is like. If you want to see real racism try going to India and tell them you're a Dalit.
So yes, you're being way too sensitive. You're basically an educated rich westerner, so who cares what a bunch of low paid Thai restaurant workers think. Shuffle through a roll of thousand baht notes in front of them and then leave a ten baht tip.

[CharlieH]

off topic post removed

[oneday]

Lots of Thais are racist, especially towards Indians and Arabs. The pecking order, IMO, is as follows:

Indians and Arabs get the worst treatment

Then falang

Then other Asians

though there may be stronger dislikes for those surrounding Asian countires: Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia.

[Dannyboy666]

every country has its least liked nationalities. americans is well documented so wat are you gonna do[/quote. ]. We Americans are Crucified on this site, but what can you do, I see Indians have been stereotyped as cheap, you can see many Indians sharing one beer down Walking Street, and then get stereotyped , but love India and it's people, just try to be above it...

[Docno]

I travel a lot with a couple of Indian friends (one a Sikh with the beard and tied up hair but no turban). Yes, there is definitely racism towards Indians in SE Asia (not just Thailand). Probably a number of different factors involved. Skin colour is a basic one... Bangkok Thais even look down on Isaan people for their darker complexion (which many farangs--myself included--quite like). As unfair and irrational as it is, fair skin is prized by many Thais. Another possible factor is the experience that some Thais have had with Indian tourists. My Tamil friend says the 'problem' is that Thailand is one of the few places that Indian men can go for an affordable vacation to 'let off steam' (he describes his home country as being very 'uptight'). While there is obviously great diversity, many of them travel on the cheap (by necessity) and may not demonstrate the (sometimes drunken) generosity shown by some farangs. That feeds into a stereotype of Indians being miserly, etc. One could go on, but the basic point is that there's a negative stereotype about Indians (from India) that has a grain of truth in some cases and which is being held against you as a Canadian.

My two friends have learned to live around this. They've made some good Thai friends--a common statement at the start is "oh, you are not like other Indians!"--and don't let things get to them. They have more patience than I do. One of my favourite things to do is to remind Thais in conversation, "hey, do you know that Lord Buddha looked like my friend here!". You can see that that some of them really struggle with the idea. Like telling some Christians that Jesus likely did not have blonde hair and blue eyes (as in some paintings), but instead would have looked classically Jewish.

Anyway, as I've said, my friends have (somehow) learned not to let this stuff bother them or ruin their fun, and they do have fun. [interestingly, my Tamil friend has his own prejudices against his fellow countrymen for what he regards as their inappropriate behaviour in some contexts -- there have been a few times when we've gone into a bar and he's said, "let's go elsewhere -- too many of my 'brothers' here". ]

[wolfmanjack]

Sounds like Thai bashing to me, considering you're posting the same thing all over the internet

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g293915-i3686-k7219143-Racism_or_Am_I_Too_Sensitive-Thailand.html

A Canadian will sound like an American to most people, and they aren't particularly well liked. Nor, for that matter are Indians. 2 strikes. That's life.

In 19 years of visiting and living in thailand I have never experienced a negative reaction to my being an American from a thai.

[Gandtee]

When you consider that Khun Barnharn, one of Thailand's ex top politicians remarked that 'If a snake or Indian crosses your path, kill the Indian'! With that wonderful example of racism what can you expect? I am afraid it is very common here. Not just against foreigners but against Thais from different parts of the country. Very sad, and shows their ignorance.

[nithisa78]

Well written op. Thailand is a racist and xenophobic culture, there is no getting around it. You mentioned the pecking order in Thailand and unfortunately for you, Indian tourists tend to be placed at the bottom of this order.

I'll echo what others have said above and give you credit for keeping a cool head.

no doubt you're projecting your own personal ill will and lack of personal comfort with yourself. your fellow man. chronic falt finder, finger pointer.

try medication.

[smotherb]

Sounds like Thai bashing to me, considering you're posting the same thing all over the internet

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g293915-i3686-k7219143-Racism_or_Am_I_Too_Sensitive-Thailand.html

A Canadian will sound like an American to most people, and they aren't particularly well liked. Nor, for that matter are Indians. 2 strikes. That's life.

Would it be any better than being English?

[OmarZaidMD]

Have you tried a skin whitener?

[kovaltech]

Op, welcome in the land of the "smirkers"

keep you'r level, don't lower yourself

i tend to use words towards that kind of behavior as " mai supaap" or even "het ijang"

i use them very polite and with a smirk on my face...

[AnotherOneAmerican]

When you consider that Khun Barnharn, one of Thailand's ex top politicians remarked that 'If a snake or Indian crosses your path, kill the Indian'! With that wonderful example of racism what can you expect? I am afraid it is very common here. Not just against foreigners but against Thais from different parts of the country. Very sad, and shows their ignorance.

It's a traditional Thai saying, he just repeated it (although the translation is wrong).

It actually translates as "If you encounter a snake and an Indian, strike the Indian first"

[CharlieH]

Post removed

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

In 19 years of visiting and living in thailand I have never experienced a negative reaction to my being an American from a thai.

That's because most Thais think all white people come from the same country (FarangLand?) and speak English.

Edited October 27, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Soiyamoto]

About song request in walking st... 20bt not enough..100bt maybe, but interesting story. Regards

[DennisF]

There is as as much racism shown on the posts here than the op suffered previously.

Who really gives a sh1t what colour he is, where he was born, what religion he is or how much money he has.

It makes not one bit of difference to anyone elses life.

My take on it is that he is a man who has come to terms with the racism he experiences and that says much more about his intellect

than the idiots he encountered or some of the posters on here.

[DennisF]

Sounds like Thai bashing to me, considering you're posting the same thing all over the internet

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g293915-i3686-k7219143-Racism_or_Am_I_Too_Sensitive-Thailand.html

A Canadian will sound like an American to most people, and they aren't particularly well liked. Nor, for that matter are Indians. 2 strikes. That's life.

In 19 years of visiting and living in thailand I have never experienced a negative reaction to my being an American from a thai.

Plenty from the Brits and Aussies though!!

[atyclb]

Yes the Thais that work in high-end hospitality jobs are often very snobby toward Isaan mia farang, sometimes even publicly so. Particularly if you're old and she's a young stunner.

However if the man takes charge and calls them on it, escalates to management things get corrected pretty quickly, at least at the genuine quality establishments.

But your girl would rather die and sink deep below the ground than let you make a fuss.

"Particularly if you're old and she's a young stunner."

beauty is in the eye of the beholder and usually mainstream thai perception is slightly different from the farang with young stunner.

[Gandtee]

When you consider that Khun Barnharn, one of Thailand's ex top politicians remarked that 'If a snake or Indian crosses your path, kill the Indian'! With that wonderful example of racism what can you expect? I am afraid it is very common here. Not just against foreigners but against Thais from different parts of the country. Very sad, and shows their ignorance.

It's a traditional Thai saying, he just repeated it (although the translation is wrong).

It actually translates as "If you encounter a snake and an Indian, strike the Indian first"

If you consider it is OK for repeating it perhaps it is OK for anyone to repeat any racist saying?

[Eliot Rosewater]

I didn't really come to Thailand to eat Indian food. In fact I'm not a huge fan of Indian food with the exception on South Indian food. Perhaps I'm sensitive. I guess it's due to the fact that I haven't been exposed to overt displays of racism in my life. Perhaps I'm lucky for that. I wonder how you would feel if the the shoe was on the other foot?

Don't worry; these crackers would be crying for the lord if they received the same treatment as you; as an american with mediteranian looks I know exactly what you are talking about

Just trudge through it the best u can; you'll be a better man for it

[AnotherOneAmerican]

When you consider that Khun Barnharn, one of Thailand's ex top politicians remarked that 'If a snake or Indian crosses your path, kill the Indian'! With that wonderful example of racism what can you expect? I am afraid it is very common here. Not just against foreigners but against Thais from different parts of the country. Very sad, and shows their ignorance.

It's a traditional Thai saying, he just repeated it (although the translation is wrong).

It actually translates as "If you encounter a snake and an Indian, strike the Indian first"

If you consider it is OK for repeating it perhaps it is OK for anyone to repeat any racist saying?

If it's OK to use 'farang' in posts, then it's OK to use any other racial slurs.

(PS. I'm not white)

[DennisF]

Yes the Thais that work in high-end hospitality jobs are often very snobby toward Isaan mia farang, sometimes even publicly so. Particularly if you're old and she's a young stunner.

However if the man takes charge and calls them on it, escalates to management things get corrected pretty quickly, at least at the genuine quality establishments.

But your girl would rather die and sink deep below the ground than let you make a fuss.

"Particularly if you're old and she's a young stunner."

beauty is in the eye of the beholder and usually mainstream thai perception is slightly different from the farang with young stunner.

Spot on, my better half has dark skin and is absolutely drop dead gorgeous ( biased, me??), but she has said for years, for Thai me not beautiful!!

[ggt]

Can't wait to hear your report of you treatment at immigration...good luck...

[SNGLIFE]

80/20 Rule always applies.

80% will be ignorant @@@holes, while 20% will be genuine good folks. Try to surround yourself with 80% of the 20% and flip the bird to the 20% of the 80%.

[1FinickyOne]

ok - you want the truth - I assume. Many people from India, come here and act really badly. I have been knocked off the sidewalks by them, grabbed by the arm and detained by the ones working in the tailor shops as i walked past. They can be arrogant and have a reputation for being really really cheap. There were a group at a breakfast buffet at the local hotel and walking anywhere in their vicinity, it was unbelievable how bad they smelled. I had to relocate. I could not understand as it was morning and the hotel has fine showers…. I do not know if they were Indian or elsewhere, but surely middle eastern.

It is really sad that when decent middle easterners or Indians come here, they are going to be painted with the same brush, but it is only a natural progression. Can you imagine how bad those rooms were left smelling if there were 2 or more in one room?

I have met a few Indian people who were truly fine, even elegant people. The majority that I have met in Thailand, the call center workers on vacation who make $10,000 a year and think and act as if they are so much richer and better than others and sometimes, aggressively so, are pretty obnoxious - but that is the majority. And quite simply, their poor behaviour is why you are having problems.

It's not fair - and hopefully, by being polite and presenting yourself well, you will overcome this hurdle.

[bkk75]

To OP,

Firstly, I would like to say a personal hi from another fellow Canadian =)

As for your experiences, it could be because they don't know you're Canadian Indian.

From my own personal experiences with tourists from India, I have witnessed quite a few times how rude and demanding they can be. Very direct, no excuse me, no thank-you, etc.

Perhaps some Thais have had very bad experiences and thus left a sour note. I'm not saying all Indians are like this just the bad ones. I've seen my fair share of other rude tourists from almost every single country BTW.

Anyway, as one poster had said, say Sawatdee-kub first, and wave around some 1000 bahts before engaging them to see if you get better treatment next time.

Money talks here and they seem to think all "farangs" are filthy rich which is far from the truth but that's another discussion for another thread. =)

[Suradit69]

Well written op. Thailand is a racist and xenophobic culture, there is no getting around it. You mentioned the pecking order in Thailand and unfortunately for you, Indian tourists tend to be placed at the bottom of this order.

I'll echo what others have said above and give you credit for keeping a cool head.

Well written op. Thailand is a racist and xenophobic culture, there is no getting around it. You mentioned the pecking order in Thailand and unfortunately for you, Indian tourists tend to be placed at the bottom of this order.

I'll echo what others have said above and give you credit for keeping a cool head.

"Thailand is a racist and xenophobic culture, there is no getting around it. "

It may well be, but far less so than in the wonderful west where people are taken off airplanes because someone thinks they look like a terrorist, where racial profiling is considered a legitimate policing policy and where the concept of Paki-bashing originated. There's an abundance of racial slurs that are a part of English and European languages ... they aren't Thai in origin.

I agree it should never be acceptable, but the implication that Thailand is any worse than most countries is ridiculous. For many of you this is the first time in your lives that you've found yourself to be in a minority and suddenly what you've been dishing out all your lives or dismissing as not your problem seems more evident to you.

Anyone from UK, USA, Europe, Russia or Australia who thinks his home country hasn't practiced racism and isn't still knee-deep in it is blind to reality.

To the O/P making generalized assumptions about you is indeed racist and pre-judging you, but some prejudices, whether against Indians, other Asians, farangs generally or whoever tend to develop because of the poor behavior of a small number of people from that group and which are then applied to all people who are superficially the same. Should all farang be considered drunken sex tourists? Should all TV posters be considered serial Thai bashers? No, but unfortunately the behavior of a small number can easily be generalized to the majority until proof of "innocence" is well established.

I have a friend who drives a taxi in Pattaya and he now tries to avoid passengers of a certain nationality because he's had experience being short-changed or totally stiffed for fares by several others who belong to that nationality. Is it right for him to pre-judge everyone he sees who is of the same nationality? No. Is it somewhat understandable? Sure.

These forums are filled with posts bashing one nationality or another, most often Thai, but the Chinese, Nigerians and others are frequent targets. Usually one or a couple of poor experiences with someone of the race or nationality in question is taken as justification to bash them all. Again, it's not right, but it's how people often react and it is not something found only in Thailand.

[Doc46]

Yea relax and than you won't be so sensitive,,,,,, works for me,,,, keep Bp on a save level )