message to Thai hosts: Don't make things uncomfortable for your guests

[boomerangutang]

I hear stories from backpackers, such as:

>>> going to study Buddhism and meditation at a Chiang Mai wat. For a week or two, they're assigned itchy beds, and are intentionally sleep deprived. In other words, guests are woken up repeatedly (by staff and/or bells and/or bed bugs) and not allowed to sleep.

>>> going to a work exchange 'home stay' run by an ex-monk who requires them to meditate 11 hours non-stop. The 2 young European gals who told me this story, were inexperienced at meditating, yet they were required to sit still in lotus position for 11 hours, without any breaks.

>>> At another 'home stay' - young visitors were not allowed to leave the premises. Plus, the food, in their words, was 'awful.'

The stories above are just a tiny sample of what some visitors to Thailand might be in for - when they attempt to 'rub shoulders with the natives' and/or try things which are off the tourist trail. My point here is a plea to Thais who host farang at their places. Whether the hosts are monks, former monks or whatever, PLEASE DON'T MAKE CONDITIONS UNCOMFORTABLE for your guests.

And before respondents say things like "Thailand is great!" or "I know Thais who offer lovely accommodations!" let me say; yes,there are good things, but this OP is commenting about some of the bad things we don't read about in tourist brochures or rosy depictions on web pages.

[Berkshire]

I would think that the advice in the OP would be best presented to the actual hosts that you speak of....rather than a bunch of farangs on TV. But maybe it's just me.

[wym]

The arrogance is unbelievable.

Our soft culture makes people way too comfortable - it's not the most important value in life. Especially wrt Buddhist meditation retreats. <deleted> It's SUPPOSED to be uncomfortable, comfort is the enemy of enlightenment. If you don't want that, go to a plush place for spiritual tourists rather than a serious monastery.

For the home stay, how young? Maybe the "guests" were underage and the hosts supposed to be acting in loco parentis?

Otherwise, how can you not be free to leave?

And that's the whole point, if you don't like it, go elsewhere.

[BookMan]

<deleted> It's SUPPOSED to be uncomfortable, comfort is the enemy of enlightenment. .

Ahh yes, but is it enlightenment or is it a tick box experience so many travelers seek?

[eldragon]

Another joke on TV, right?

Anyway, probably not a lot of monks and homestay hosts reading this. And it seems like one going for that kind of experience would appreciate the authentic nature of the visit.

[zeichen]

OP, just exactly do you think the audience of this post is for?

First of all for those doing stays in temples, do you really think that they deserve some different treatment than noviciates? If they want a fake temple experience perhaps start one. There are meditation circles and other trendy things for those that don't actually or cannot actually deal with what life is truly like.

As for complaints about food at homestays, they should be traveling. I am certain that the family gave their best and if that isn't good enough then those people complaining should just go eat some fast food crap.

Thais typically are great hosts and are very concerned with their guests comfort. I think the issue you have is directly related to a service and not Thai people or how they treat guests. These that you speak of are customers not guests.

Create your own tour package ensuring tourists what you think they deserve. You will make a fortune.

[wym]

Hence the go to a plush place for spiritual tourists rather than a serious monastery.

[Tywais]

There are wats that cater to foreigners and know the limits of the new comers and try to accommodate them and slowly build them up to the more intensive sessions. The 'visitors' should research this and find more suitable wats. Chiang Mai has some well renowned wats that do this.

[chrisinth]

I don't understand this, whether it is a wind-up post or not. If it wasn't for the number of posts the OP has I would nearly call it a troll post.

What do the backpackers expect when going to remote wats for the study of Buddhism and meditation? Has it really got to the stage that material comforts are expected everywhere?

Air-cons and slumberland mattresses are not the norm in these places, if that's what the backpackers require, IMHO, they shouldn't be there in the first place.

[boomerangutang]

There are wats that cater to foreigners and know the limits of the new comers and try to accommodate them and slowly build them up to the more intensive sessions. The 'visitors' should research this and find more suitable wats. Chiang Mai has some well renowned wats that do this.

The above response is the only reasonable response, thus far, to my OP.

I'll try to address some of the 'bending-over-backwards-trying-to-justify-Thai-rudeness' responses.

>>> spiritual attainment doesn't require being achingly uncomfortable. I would describe some personal experiences, but responders would founder around trying to poke holes in them - or perhaps call me boastful (no one is supposed to mention their personal spiritual insights, are they?).

>>> I don't know which forum Thai hosts read, so I thought to post my thoughts on the one forum I use. Perhaps some people reading this - have Thai acquaintances who offer a venue for tourists. If so, you might mention to those people: 'Please don't make visitors' suffer unnecessarily'

>>> I do have a tourist-related venue in Thailand, and I've provided accommodation for hundreds of travelers over the years (no, it's not a g.h. or a hotel). I never compel anyone to do anything they don't want to do. I never cause harm or annoyance to any visitors. I strive to make each visitor's visit as pleasant as reasonably possible, even if we're working or meditating together.

The 3 examples I mentioned in my OP are just the tip of the iceberg of the markedly uncomfortable venues served up to (mostly young) farang visitors to Thailand. I didn't mention rip-offs or bodily harm - as that's fodder for other topics. I'm referring to scenarios which enforce uncomfortable conditions on others.

[boomerangutang]

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The arrogance is unbelievable.

Our soft culture makes people way too comfortable - it's not the most important value in life. Especially wrt Buddhist meditation retreats. &lt;deleted&gt; It's SUPPOSED to be uncomfortable, comfort is the enemy of enlightenment. If you don't want that, go to a plush place for spiritual tourists rather than a serious monastery.

For the home stay, how young? Maybe the "guests" were underage and the hosts supposed to be acting in loco parentis?

Otherwise, how can you not be free to leave?

And that's the whole point, if you don't like it, go elsewhere.

May I suggest: don't apply for a job with TAT. You could write some catch-phrases like:

"Visit Thailand's Meditation Retreats: We Make Sure They're Uncomfortable!"

or

"Experience Rural Thailand - With a Family Which Will Keep You Under A Tight Leash, Because They Will Be Like Strict Parents!"

or

"Visit Thailand. Be Sure To First Spend Lots of Money and Valuable Vacation Time Here, Finding Out Whether You Like It. If You Don't Like It, Go Somewhere Else!"

[wym]

Sure if you're in the tourism business, that's good advice when your market is overly molly-coddled true tourists - an insult AFA everyone I know is concerned.

The very last thing I look for when I travel is "comfort".

And lots of pretty enlightened practitioners force newbies to work through the pain, if nothing else eliminate those not serious about the path.

[sdanielmcev]

Well, maybe there are some wats at a four-star hotel. With a happy meal. Seriously, meditation is giving up creature comforts, while opening the mind. (Simplistic, I know.) And, you may want to ask these people what it is they expected.

[StreetCowboy]

I think the OP's advice would be better targeted at the Consumers, advising them to check out what they are buying before they commit themselves to a fortnight's meditation in Stalag 17.

SC

[farang000999]

What a vacation...

[Metapod]

I've found Thais to be fantastic hosts on almost every occasion for me personally.

They have bend over backwards to accommodate me in ways they really didn't need to.

[HooHaa]

notice to morons. avoid yoga retreats. you want luxury, find a resort

[bina]

my first time in thailand was a home stay in ban chiang and i slept in the same bed with a pillow between me and the woman host... i ate what she and her kids ate, showred like they did (they did boil some water to heat up the pail of water for me to lukewarm but tahts all they did)... suffered the same mosquitoes in a mosquito net, froze when it rained and there was no heating and clothes didnt dry, hand washed my clothes, didnt really like the school i was sent to 'teach' in for two weeks (yes my spelling and english is very good just not on internet) as i felt they didnt treat me seriously, yes i speak basic polite thai and at the time also some issaan thai, but hey, that was just part of the experience.

what is the point of doing a 'homestay' with 'natives' if u dont live like the natives. people coming to kibbutz to work and eat in the dining room work and eat just like we do, not better not worse. so if u dont like hard boiled eggs, white cheese and veggies for dinner, dont come here.if u want us to give u safety equimpent, dont work here. samesame.

if u go to a retreat, then choose one that fits what u can do or need... vipissana workshops are the same, plain food, and all day meditations. if u arent that advanced then choose a shorter stay or different venue.

i admit that the program i took 'abused' us since we didnt get our visa to 'volunteer' that was promised us; we were moved from place to place regardless, but really, that was the whole point no?

i i had wanted a hotel i would have booked a vacation on the seaside in a hilton.

[Thongkorn]

I don't believe any of this story.

[krisb]

I agree.

I hate a lumpy pillow.

[boomerangutang]

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Well, maybe there are some wats at a four-star hotel. With a happy meal. Seriously, meditation is giving up creature comforts, while opening the mind. (Simplistic, I know.) And, you may want to ask these people what it is they expected.

I first turned on to Buddhism when I read the story of the Buddha's life, which included his journey to spiritual enlightenment. I'm also familiar with biographies of many spiritually enlightened beings, including Ramakrisna and Milarepa. Sure, there are challenges for those on a spiritual quest, but it's also a process. They're not required to sit still for 11 hours in lotus position on their first day. More often than not, real spiritual meditation takes place outside of temples/houses, and in natural surroundings. I'm referring to real spiritual insights, not simply physically sitting still for many hours, looking serious - which orthodox Buddhists are adept at. Meditation is, among other things, aimed at gaining spiritual enlightenment. It is not designed for punishment or discomfort (mental or physical).

Ramakrisna once said: "See those monkeys sitting on top of that temple wall? They're all still and quiet with serious countenances, arms folded in their laps. People smile wisely, and say they're meditating. They're not. They're sitting there waiting for bits of food, and at first sight, off they rush to be the first to grab it.

I've found Thais to be fantastic hosts on almost every occasion for me personally.

They have bend over backwards to accommodate me in ways they really didn't need to.

Thanks for stating the obvious. It's like someone saying they saw a crooked cop accepting a bribe - someone like Metapod would pipe up and say; 'How can that be?! I know many cops who aren't corrupt.'

Edited February 21, 2014 by boomerangutang

[harrry]

Many ways, many paths.......maybe you can find yours but do not bang the door on the way out.

[Bkklocal]

I think there were news posts on siaming.com like this. Probably off topic - but service generally seems down alot these days. I really noticed it when I had my mum over, from a fresh perspective so rude and lazy in general, When I notice it, I generally demand attention and let them know how nice and friendly they are, and if they dont a want a job go ...

"Hi how is facebook goign on your phone, do you have time to help us here??? lol -

But the strange thign about this post is who enters in to a situation or travels miles with out finding out more about it? And if it sucks, just leave, only a thai tourist operator would take money and place them in a bad situation.

I.E tourist buss operators - "Hi, is this the VIP buss ? "I ask - "Yes Sir, it is " ... for all of you that don't know - no one sells the VIP buss, they only sell you the crappy tourist serivces on shabby busses with a few van transfers in between from say Bkk to phuket. Run like some military service. ( Go directly to the Buss terminals for the real deal ) Buy your ticket their.. .. Jesus, I am way off topic.. sorry

[belg]

poor people here sleep on the floor, drink rain water and a toilet is a bucket with water

and dinner is rice with some vegetables & some dubious meat...

[Hecate]

I went to a wat in Chiang Mai for meditation and the monk who was leading the session swore at us several times. While this doesn't shock me, it was in stark contrast to the reverence that myself and others were expected to show the monk. It made me wonder what he would do next to those who were willing to accept his behaviour. It seemed like the monk was on some sort of power trip to me. Several non-native English speakers looked confused, and I'm sure they were wondering if they had heard correctly.

I don't think repeated use of the F word is normally a part of Buddhism, but I'm sure the TV brain trust will correct me if I'm wrong. I've gone to other wats where this doesn't happen, so I'm sure it's rare, but I do understand what the OP is talking about. Go ahead and flame me.

[HUAHIN62]

Send a mail to Suthep he can put it on the list of reforms. Sloow day again.

[Suradit69]

There are wats that cater to foreigners and know the limits of the new comers and try to accommodate them and slowly build them up to the more intensive sessions. The 'visitors' should research this and find more suitable wats. Chiang Mai has some well renowned wats that do this.

The above response is the only reasonable response, thus far, to my OP.

I'll try to address some of the 'bending-over-backwards-trying-to-justify-Thai-rudeness' responses.

>>> spiritual attainment doesn't require being achingly uncomfortable. I would describe some personal experiences, but responders would founder around trying to poke holes in them - or perhaps call me boastful (no one is supposed to mention their personal spiritual insights, are they?).

>>> I don't know which forum Thai hosts read, so I thought to post my thoughts on the one forum I use. Perhaps some people reading this - have Thai acquaintances who offer a venue for tourists. If so, you might mention to those people: 'Please don't make visitors' suffer unnecessarily'

>>> I do have a tourist-related venue in Thailand, and I've provided accommodation for hundreds of travelers over the years (no, it's not a g.h. or a hotel). I never compel anyone to do anything they don't want to do. I never cause harm or annoyance to any visitors. I strive to make each visitor's visit as pleasant as reasonably possible, even if we're working or meditating together.

The 3 examples I mentioned in my OP are just the tip of the iceberg of the markedly uncomfortable venues served up to (mostly young) farang visitors to Thailand. I didn't mention rip-offs or bodily harm - as that's fodder for other topics. I'm referring to scenarios which enforce uncomfortable conditions on others.

"The above response is the only reasonable response, thus far, to my OP.

I'll try to address some of the 'bending-over-backwards-trying-to-justify-Thai-rudeness' responses."

In other words you were hoping that aiming this message at a forum noted for Thai bashing would garner you a bunch of support for your whining because you just want to rant and hear Hallelujah! Amen! following your pointless moaning.

Presumably the only truly "reasonable response" would be to agree with you,

[DonaldBattles]

For all the crazies that come to Thailand and are sucked into fake monk situations like this they simply deserve it. Better to be looking for Jesus some place.

What do I have to do to become a monk?

[Seastallion]

&lt;deleted&gt;, Authentic experiences need to be authentic. It's what "authentic" is all about. Does the OP really suggest that an "authentic" experience be adjusted for the comfort of soft foreigners?

[MrHammer]

Why in the world would you want to do homestay anyway with all these cheap hotels.

Seems like the Thais see what it is, a patronising narcisistic idea of the beatiful savage. They get what they deserve.

Poor people are not special saints and do not deliver special knowledge, they are just poor and wish they had a fraction of the wealth of these naive westerners.