Farmers back Thai govt bonds to raise money for rice payments

[BillyBobThai]

Sell the rice!

Nobody wants it, sorry.

[timewilltell]

So the PT now has the idea of exchanging the worthless vouchers they have given to the farmers with worthless bonds they want to issue to the public for cash. And who gets to be saddled with repaying the public for the bonds - or is that just an inconvenient question since the caretaker government can't do anything that binds the incoming still future government.

And why don't they just take the easy route and sell the mountains of rice they have unless the rice isn't really there in the quantities they say and corruption has turned into an Enormous beast and gobbled up all the money?

[billsmart]

So in the end, the government needs the public's fund to pay the farmers for rice bought into the program at ridiculously high price?

The rice that the gov't lack the ability to sell, or properly monitored in any case.

I am seriously wondering how the gov't came up with this (I know they probably did not think too much)

Rice bought @ 1X,XXX baht. Market price X,XXX baht. There's no way to make any money from this. The public would be needed to help to cover the shortfall anyway.

But seriously! right now it looks like the public will have to cover for all of the expense.

What a mess

Of course the public will have to supply the funds to make up the shortfall. It's called a "government subsidy" and is done is probably every country of every ex-pat on this board. It's one of the way a government redistributes wealth among the various strati of society. This particular one was developed to favor the rice farmers. There are also publically-funded "subsidies" given the wealthy and the industrialists in the form of low interest loans, government contracts, tax breaks, deferrals, exclusions and international tariff manipulation.

This is all just business as usual. The problem here is not the program but the fact that Yingluck did not earmark and secure the funds to pay the subsidy before she dissolved the parliament. Now the ability to secure these funds is being held hostage by Suthep and his cronies in their desperate attempt to overthrow a popularly-elected government and install some appointed, elitist government who will restore the power in Thailand from the people back to the elite and from the countryside back to Bangkok.

[gabruce]

so the ptp appointed red farmer has again voiced the ptp party line in trying to placate the farmers, screw the truth just do what you are told by the ptp and reds.

I thought you were applauding the rice farmers just the other day and now they are they are just PTP lackeys

Why not just give up the pretense and go back to calling them Red Kwai just like in the good old days?

Sycophants, the lot of you.

It seems to me that he was talking about TFGA leader Wichian Phuanglamchiak and not rice farmers in general, so your comment would seem to be based on your misreading the comment. You of course would be welcome to comment that you disagree with the statement about TFGA leader Wichian Phuanglamchiak being appointed by the PTP or about his doing whatever the ptp and reds tell him to do.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Nothing in the OP article or anything that follows it addresses the ongoing question of how/whether the CARETAKER Finance Ministry and Government obtains the authority to issue billions of baht worth of bonds.

Up to this point, I believe, the Election Commission, which oversee these kinds of issues, has said the CARETAKER government doesn't have that authority, or at least, would face legal jeopardy if they proceeded.

That's why they've been out lately beating the bushes for anyone with two baht to rub together, trying to extract money (unsuccessfully) out of AOT, Government Savings Bank, and who knows who all else.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Sell the rice!

Nah, keep the rice, it's good for 20-30 years, we need a rice reserve for food security, and it's not good to sell it in a glut when the price is low anyway.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Nothing in the OP article or anything that follows it addresses the ongoing question of how/whether the CARETAKER Finance Ministry and Government obtains the authority to issue billions of baht worth of bonds.

Up to this point, I believe, the Election Commission, which oversee these kinds of issues, has said the CARETAKER government doesn't have that authority, or at least, would face legal jeopardy if they proceeded.

That's why they've been out lately beating the bushes for anyone with two baht to rub together, trying to extract money (unsuccessfully) out of AOT, Government Savings Bank, and who knows who all else.

BAAC bank is issuing the bonds, not the government. Same as any other bank does. I'll take a tranch if they're open for public sale, I support our farmers even if you and your Surat friend don't.

[RubbaJohnny]

Bond, Rice bond,shaken down not stirred

[AleG]

Sell the rice!

Nah, keep the rice, it's good for 20-30 years, we need a rice reserve for food security, and it's not good to sell it in a glut when the price is low anyway.

If you think you are helping the government with your arguments... think again.

[northernjohn]

so the ptp appointed red farmer has again voiced the ptp party line in trying to placate the farmers, screw the truth just do what you are told by the ptp and reds.

I thought you were applauding the rice farmers just the other day and now they are they are just PTP lackeys

Why not just give up the pretense and go back to calling them Red Kwai just like in the good old days?

Sycophants, the lot of you.

Well at the price they thought they were going to get for their rice of course they were PTP lackey's. The position they have been forced into now leaves them no choice but to back any scam the PTP can come up with to pay them their money.

Why are they being so silent about the government owing them the money and then pulling the rug out from under them. They had plenty of time to pay them before they closed up shop. They were to busy trying to white wash Thaksin to be bothered with their governmental duties. It is not the fault of the protestors. They are trying to bring in an honest government that would never have allowed the rice farmers to get into the situation they find them selves in now.

It is my understanding that about 4,000 of them are going to protest to Yingluck tomorrow and the ones who suddenly found enough money to drive a tractor to Bangkok came with the intention of protesting to Yingluck and if unable to do that go to the airport and protest there. Not take it over in any way just protest. Then all of a sudden no Yingluck they decide the airport is a no go so they develop the money to drive there tractor back to where ever.

The whole situation smells to high heaven. Who paid for the trip. All that way and they are happy because some employee of Yingluck came out and said Yingluck says she is going to pay you.

Now they are blaming the anti government protestors. Why didn't they protest to them when they were in town and why is there going to be a group of them protesting to Yingluck tomorrow instead of protesting to Suthep.

I may not be a Rhodes Scholar but I am far from the village idiot.

[northernjohn]

It does not matter which side they are in, we all should help the farmers. The farmers have been used by both sides but it is time to show some respect to the farmers. Without farmers, we don't have foods.

It may be seen as kicking them when they were down but when the government was overpaying them with money taken from the tax payers what kind of respect did they have for the tax payers. They were willing participants in an obviously flawed Ponzi type scheme and said nothing about it until all of a sudden they found them selves being a victim also.

Then how the little piggy's screamed.

I feel sorry for them but it is up to them to protest and scream to the PTP until they get their money.

Instead some of them choose to buddy up to the PTP and blame the grass roots protestors who are trying to help them. Indeed stop it from ever happening again. But the little piggy's are not concerned with any one but them selves and right now. They don't even care about tomorrow and they for darn sure are not going to own up to their part in it.

Don't get me wrong I hope they gedt their money and I am bnot one bit happy about their misery. But they should be going to the proper people who got them into this and not blaming the people who are helping them.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Nothing in the OP article or anything that follows it addresses the ongoing question of how/whether the CARETAKER Finance Ministry and Government obtains the authority to issue billions of baht worth of bonds.

Up to this point, I believe, the Election Commission, which oversee these kinds of issues, has said the CARETAKER government doesn't have that authority, or at least, would face legal jeopardy if they proceeded.

That's why they've been out lately beating the bushes for anyone with two baht to rub together, trying to extract money (unsuccessfully) out of AOT, Government Savings Bank, and who knows who all else.

BAAC bank is issuing the bonds, not the government. Same as any other bank does. I'll take a tranch if they're open for public sale, I support our farmers even if you and your Surat friend don't.

Still trying to get more blood out of the BAAC turnip, huh?

Before, it was BAAC begging the government for money because BAAC didn't have enough money to pay the farmers what they were owed.

At any rate, the OP MCOT article makes no mention of BAAC at all... saying only:

issuance of state bonds, proposed last week by the Finance Ministry.

BAAC is, after all, an entity and arm of the Thai government. And the government seems to be proposing a new and different scheme to pay the farmers about every 5 minutes...and none of them thus far, have produced any positive result.

BTW, here's the article from last week talking about the BAAC bond issuance proposal, and in the article, it includes the following:

Kittiratt said a conclusion to the bond issuance would be reached in seven to eight weeks.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/706144-thai-rice-plediging-scheme-farmers-to-be-paid-via-issuance-of-public-bonds/?hl=+baac%20+bonds

Edited February 24, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Bkkbound]

This is pure nonsense, the farmers i know are not having any of this.. You can fool some of the people some of the time blah blah.. Time has already run out. The TFGA are representing no-one but the person who is paying them and directing their actions.

[fredob43]

They really have no choice but to go down with the ship.

Who would buy this junk bonds and have a real hope of getting the money back[/size]

You beat me to it your spot on while peep's are peep's bashing in this section everyone has missed the point no bugger want's them from the bank's down yet another ruse to keep all quiet for a few day's. They need to talk but that isn't going to happen.

[SheungWan]

It does not matter which side they are in, we all should help the farmers. The farmers have been used by both sides but it is time to show some respect to the farmers. Without farmers, we don't have foods.

Yes, let the tax payers fork up the stolen 400 billion! Helping the farmers now equals helping the thieves who corrupted the system and who without resistance will get away with it! At the account of all hard working tax paying Thais.

freezing the bank accounts of the corrupts and using that money to pay the farmers would be the right thing to do.

You would presumably mean by that confiscating the remaining assets of the Shinawatra family in Thailand? No? Not quite what you had in mind?

[SheungWan]

They really have no choice but to go down with the ship.

Who would buy this junk bonds and have a real hope of getting the money back[/size]

You beat me to it your spot on while peep's are peep's bashing in this section everyone has missed the point no bugger want's them from the bank's down yet another ruse to keep all quiet for a few day's. They need to talk but that isn't going to happen.

The question is whether a caretaker government can issue new debt which will accrue as a liability to a new incoming government.

[brownbear]

Repeating in a slightly different way what many posters have already said: yes, the farmers would back that policy wouldn't they. Rather ironic if the farmers ended up being the main buyers of the bonds themselves methinks. Can't see why anyone else would do so unless purely from a charitable standpoint.

For all the uninformed BS coming from the Thailand (caretaker) government's international so-called 'friends', maybe they would like to throw a few billion in? Nope, sorry, BS is free and easy, underwriting financial risks requires serious consideration!

What worries me is how any future government is going to sort this horrendous mess out. We know that PTP can't or won't but how about any interim or replacement government?

Of course those that have taken out could make a significant contribution by putting back in, but, that would be too much to ask of any of the 'beneficiaries' wouldn't it?

[hawker9000]

So the PT now has the idea of exchanging the worthless vouchers they have given to the farmers with worthless bonds they want to issue to the public for cash. And who gets to be saddled with repaying the public for the bonds - or is that just an inconvenient question since the caretaker government can't do anything that binds the incoming still future government.

And why don't they just take the easy route and sell the mountains of rice they have unless the rice isn't really there in the quantities they say and corruption has turned into an Enormous beast and gobbled up all the money?

Can't you just see a farmer at the bond counter trying to buy these bonds with his vouchers? Now THERE you'd get to plainly see the true value of this whole rice-pledging scheme... Sure hope Thailand doesn't have the equivalent of a social security trust fund. If so, I'm pretty sure the working public can say bye-bye to it...

[MAJIC]

The farmers will back anything that gets them their money. I don't blame them.

Sounds more like half their money to me! and still no explanations of where the Farmers money went ???? anyway didn't Yingluck say it will be paid out end of this week?

[Langsuan Man]

And how do we reconcile this story with the one reported by The Nation today ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/706786-rice-pledging-scheme-urgent-funding-sought-for-thai-farmers/

[BlueNoseCodger]

BAAC bank is issuing the bonds, not the government. Same as any other bank does. I'll take a tranch if they're open for public sale, I support our farmers even if you and your Surat friend don't.

Still trying to get more blood out of the BAAC turnip, huh?

Before, it was BAAC begging the government for money because BAAC didn't have enough money to pay the farmers what they were owed.

At any rate, the OP MCOT article makes no mention of BAAC at all... saying only:

issuance of state bonds, proposed last week by the Finance Ministry.

BAAC is, after all, an entity and arm of the Thai government. And the government seems to be proposing a new and different scheme to pay the farmers about every 5 minutes...and none of them thus far, have produced any positive result.

BTW, here's the article from last week talking about the BAAC bond issuance proposal, and in the article, it includes the following:

Kittiratt said a conclusion to the bond issuance would be reached in seven to eight weeks.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/706144-thai-rice-plediging-scheme-farmers-to-be-paid-via-issuance-of-public-bonds/?hl=+baac%20+bonds

On the one hand you do everything you can to block the farmers from getting paid, (e.g. GSB attacks, blocking bonds via Somchai of the Electoral Commission) and so on, and yet the next minute you're trying to get their support. Then you wonder why only a couple of thousand turn up.

It's bipolar.!

It's like Suthep's election attack, he blocked the vote, stole the ballots, his popcorn people shot at protestor trying to free those ballots, his protestors intimidated voters at the polls.

Then he claims people who didn't vote are his votes! If they were his votes, why the blocks and intimidation?

Also bipolar.

Now we have his "we're peaceful" / "I'll send my popcorn men" lines, again, bipolar.

EC's the same, the "we can't have elections" / "we insist the government cancels elections" / "we have to run elections by law" / "they'll be violence if there is elections" / " ok so there wasn't violence, but we can't have byelections" /....

It's all a bit laughable and obvious.

At some point, someone's going to have to draw a line under this Suthep mess and fail it. Because you cannot successfully have a coup now without it being so obvious how corrupt and incompetent your lot are. He's like blown the gaff and revealed all the men behind the curtains trying to pull the strings.

As I said, if they issue the bonds for public sale too, I'll take a tranch, because I support the farmers.

Edited February 25, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[Pops]

so the ptp appointed red farmer has again voiced the ptp party line in trying to placate the farmers, screw the truth just do what you are told by the ptp and reds.

The appointed red farmer just says something different than the appointed yellow farmer, that is all !

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As I said, if they issue the bonds for public sale too, I'll take a tranch, because I support the farmers.

I support a government that follows the country's laws, and doesn't try to avoid or evade them at every turn.

I support a government that works for the benefit of the Thai nation and populace at large, instead of working to enrich themselves.

I support a government that manages the country's finances in an honest and responsible way, instead of concocting half-baked vote-buying schemes that end up looting the nation's treasury.

[Stan7444]

It does not matter which side they are in, we all should help the farmers. The farmers have been used by both sides but it is time to show some respect to the farmers. Without farmers, we don't have foods.

Everyone should support the farmers and not use them as a political pawn. Blocking the gov't or anyone raising money that is owed to these farmers is not a moral thing to do, regardless of any reason. Money is owed to them for their livelihood and it needs to be paid.

How protestors can with good conscience try to intimidate banks into not providing funding to pay farmers is beyond belief. Also, how can a bank staff in good conscience try to force the bank management to not provide funding to pay such a legal obligation to these farmers? In most other countries, such bank employees would be fired instead of the bank president being forced to resign. Absolutely crazy.

[hawker9000]

It does not matter which side they are in, we all should help the farmers. The farmers have been used by both sides but it is time to show some respect to the farmers. Without farmers, we don't have foods.

Everyone should support the farmers and not use them as a political pawn. Blocking the gov't or anyone raising money that is owed to these farmers is not a moral thing to do, regardless of any reason. Money is owed to them for their livelihood and it needs to be paid.

How protestors can with good conscience try to intimidate banks into not providing funding to pay farmers is beyond belief. Also, how can a bank staff in good conscience try to force the bank management to not provide funding to pay such a legal obligation to these farmers? In most other countries, such bank employees would be fired instead of the bank president being forced to resign. Absolutely crazy.

"regardless of any reason." eh?. OK, how 'bout we loot YOUR personal bank accounts, confiscate YOUR property, and garnish YOUR wages? Hey, the farmers "needs to be paid."! Right? OK, I say we start with you, the "regardless of reasons" guy. And while we're at it, if you start squawking about it, we'll see that YOU'RE not allowed to "intimidate" anyone (IOW, ban YOUR free speech).

Oh, THAT's different, huh?

I just love the self-righteous blowhards out there, I really do.

Protesters are unable to "force" bank management to do anything. Get real! If they want to take collective action (you know, the way organized labor does routinely) and withdraw their deposits, that's certainly their right. Oh, wait a minute. You're not particularly concerned with THEIR rights, are you?!

[JAS21]

Nothing in the OP article or anything that follows it addresses the ongoing question of how/whether the CARETAKER Finance Ministry and Government obtains the authority to issue billions of baht worth of bonds.

Up to this point, I believe, the Election Commission, which oversee these kinds of issues, has said the CARETAKER government doesn't have that authority, or at least, would face legal jeopardy if they proceeded.

That's why they've been out lately beating the bushes for anyone with two baht to rub together, trying to extract money (unsuccessfully) out of AOT, Government Savings Bank, and who knows who all else.

BAAC bank is issuing the bonds, not the government. Same as any other bank does. I'll take a tranch if they're open for public sale, I support our farmers even if you and your Surat friend don't.

They are ... go get some and then post your purchase.

[Jonmarleesco]

I fail to see how a caretaker government raising funds through the bond market would prove any more legal than direct borrowing.

And Wichian says '... A rice farmer council [as proposed by Phra Buddha Issara] will create privilege to rice growers in the eye of planters of other crops such as sugarcane, rubber, corn and tapioca ...' Isn't that what the government's pledging scheme has been doing?