Thai army chief cautions nation may 'collapse' as violence escalates

[Fullstop]

18 successful or attempted coups since 1932.

They just haven't been taught HOW to run a country. If I was Thai ... I wouldn't be so cocky about "Never having been colonised" right now.

[elzach]

When are people going to realize that for many people in the world (parts of Asia for example), democracy is a "fluid" concept...and that some people are just not ready for it yet.

[HD 205]

But, they haven't got rid of him.

That's part of my point.

I think people exaggerate Thaksin's aspirations, sometimes comparing him to the likes of Hitler.

He didn't need to control everything, as he already had the strongest democratic mandate in Thai history! (AFAIK)

I don't think anyone could argue that the military doesn't need some sort of stronger regulation and not have so much power also.

"....he already had the strongest democratic mandate in Thai history! (AFAIK)"

Ask yourself why he called an election 15 months into that mandate. It was to distract from the protests over his blatant corruption.

You are right about the coup, it was a mistake in timing. He should have been arrested, charged, tried, found guilty of corruption and abuse of position and jailed for 20 years if not executed.

If you were trulty against ant- corruption you would be screaming Sutheps name from the rooftops for him to be headed to the big tiger.

I might have you wrong? maybe I'll see it in your next post?

[binjalin]

The point is the opposition Dems are hopelessly linked to the elite and as such they are not an effective opposition - most Thais vote PTP because of this not because they love PTP

if Dems can't score election victories over PTP it shows how hopeless they are

a new middle party not linked to ammart or Thaksin might be the way forward

but "where art thou"?

[elzach]

18 successful or attempted coups since 1932.

They just haven't been taught HOW to run a country. If I was Thai ... I wouldn't be so cocky about "Never having been colonised" right now.

You'd be amazed how Thais think...a FB friend posted a pic of protest and bloodshed with the caption that Thailand has benefits...what are the benefits in this instance you ask? "complex politics".

Thais it seems are brought up with more than your average brainwashing. They only see the real situation when they go abroad and they have a comparison yardstick. Case in point, how many Thai returnees does anyone know?

[IAMSOBAD]

Why doesn't Yingluck avoid a coup by offering Ten Million Baht Reward for killers at Trat and Big C on her famous Facebook?

T.I.T.

Edited February 25, 2014 by IAMSOBAD

[geriatrickid]

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In mature parliamentary countries, shouldn't the Army be subordinate to the elected government?

Yes. Unfortunately, the Thai military refuses to recognize that a civilian government has the authority to govern without the military's permission.

The Thai military is a lucrative business for its senior stakeholders and they have the weapons.

You want the military taking orders from Thaksin?

If they are lawful orders and Thaksin was the legally designated PM, then yes.

If the orders are illegal or otherwise violate the laws of Thailand, then the military is expected to disobey those orders. This is how a functioning democracy works. I appreciate that you dislike Thaksin. However, I ask you to consider another scenario. Let's say Abhisit was PM, and he ordered the military to crack down on alleged abuses of the Rohingya , i.e. to investigate the allegations against the navy and to bring charges against culpable military personnel, and the military refused. What then? The military must be accountable to the population.

Many countries' militaries have had to accept civilian governments they detested. Harry Truman wasn't too popular when he fired MacCarthur, but the US military carried out its responsibilities in a professional manner. The Nicaraguan military swallowed its pride when the Sandinistas were elected, and the end result has been peace. Chile, Argentina and Brazil saw their respective militaries subordinate themselves to civilian rule. The end result has been countries more peaceful and prosperous than when the militaries were running the show.

[BSW2519]

This article is attributed to AFP and has their logo at the bottom. However, looking on their website http://www.afp.com/ it is not to be found nor is the author Apilaporn VECHAKIJ.

[freedom4life]

Seems like a causal threat to get the rest of the nation involved, to stop the protests The nation would of eventually collapsed, due to inherent corruption within the country, especially gov't.

[Professor Kevin]

Why doesn't Yingluck avoid a coup by offering Ten Million Baht Reward for killers at Trat and Big C on her famous Facebook?

T.I.T.

I find it quite curious the Democrats, when in power or The Nation didn't initiate investigations on the drug war and southern massacres.

They are rabid haters when it comes to Thaksin but dropped these issues.

Very telling.

[prvtdetdave]

There will be a coup and in 2-years the other side will be on the street and the powers that be will cave to their wishes and so on and so on ... nothing will change until people accept election results and let their terms play out or use the courts and political process and not holding areas of a city hostage. I say this as somebody who firmly believes no leader should be able to hold their post if they are in ongoing communications with a wanted criminal ... especially one who is trying to influence Thai policy while in exile.

Forget all the BS about vote buying in the north, all sides can and do give bribes. I think very highly of Abhisit but he blew it by not doing more for the people in the north to show them his party is truly the one who is going to make their lives better in the long run.

Really? Conservatives, Republicans, Elitest, Facist, Nationalist; they are all the same. Exploiters and slave traders.

[chooka]

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Thai army chief cautions nation may 'collapse' as violence escalates

&lt;deleted&gt;,.... just roll out the tanks, enact a coup and clean up the streets and government buildings of all the thugs possessing them before this ends up in a civil war!

I have heard from friends that tanks are being loaded onto train cars for transport to BKK.

Well, if anonymous internet guy's friend said it, it must be true....

Just came across this on Thaivisa

RT @ianmacdublin: @RichardBarrow Lots of tanks, APCs and troops on the rail sidings beside the expressway on the way in from Cheangwattana this am. Exercises?

[HD 205]

Besides the implication of wishing death upon the man (little extreme!) - I don't think they should've gotten rid of him by coup at all.

They got rid of him by coup because they knew his party would win again in the election, that's why the coup was staged just a couple of months before the confirmed general election was to take place.

That's corruption.

A man responsible for thousands of extrajudicial murders under his war on drugs campaign, the death penalty is the lawful punishment in Thailand.

There was a lot of hard talk from Thaksin during that time, I agree and I am totally against him for that, the WOD in Thailand has always sickened me.

Do you hold those who pulled the trigger responsible or those in power who advocated the war on drugs?

I hold Taksin responsible for unleashing the forces that created such havoc, murder and misery on thousands of families. He is a man that lied and bribed his way into power even in his first election 'victory', someone even blew up his plane in Don Muang on one occasion. He has never united Thailand, consolidating power through division, corruption , threats and bullshit. Thailand deserves better, the thai people deserve better, he offers nothing but self enrichment and trouble.

if you hold Thaksin responsible responsible for all that, you have to look a lot further, you even stated the death penalty is the lawful punishment in Thailand.... regarding this.

What I find ludicrous is that people think that Thaksin is the kingpin of Thai corruption.

That's what really puzzles me when looking at the full picture.

Edited February 25, 2014 by HD 205

[SheungWan]

Why doesn't Yingluck avoid a coup by offering Ten Million Baht Reward for killers at Trat and Big C on her famous Facebook?

T.I.T.

I find it quite curious the Democrats, when in power or The Nation didn't initiate investigations on the drug war and southern massacres.

They are rabid haters when it comes to Thaksin but dropped these issues.

Very telling.

Thaksin cheerleaders (even Professors) are not curious. They're job is to spread pixie dust in anticipation of the return of the criminal on the run himself. Turning a blind eye to the current red hit and run tactics is just another job to be done.

[IAMSOBAD]

Yingluck hasn't paid the rice farmers this week as promised and so a Coup may be her excuse of why she didn't pay.

Let her pay then Coup.

T.I.T.

[rickirs]

Suthep would benefit by a collapse of the country, especially if the final elections do not occur. It will be like a "If I can't have it, no one can have it." I think Suthep is willing as another last resort to take a chance that he will gain a political edge through the nation's collapse no matter how many people are injured or killed. He has played political roulette before with people's lives in 2010 to keep power, why not again?

[Trouble]

Who writes these press articles. Part of it is a superficial report on a live televised speech in which we learn very little. The rest of it is canned rhetoric that appears in almost all of the articles in any Nation report. From all appearances the press does not function in Thailand. Superficial reporting and never a pointed question to any of the players in this drama.

Almost a waste of time reading.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Trouble

[Crushdepth]

Coup Coup CA Chu... name that familiar tune of Thailand.

This time I for one welcome green shirts.

T.I.T.

And that's the intent of the violence. Get the public scared and weary of the ongoing violence.

Sabotage the civil government by preventing the civil authorities from dispersing the protestors and by legislating from the bench.

Then they will welcome the benevolent smiling generals.

Don't be a patsy.

You sir have done your homework and I will grade your post "A."

Seems there are two camps here on Thai Visa.

One camp reads the Thai papers (and believe it) and the other camp has schooled up and read the stuff that is being blocked & kept away from the masses.

ANU-Australia National University Asian Studies would be a good start to getting up to speed on the political issues in Thailand.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/category/thailand/

You must be joking, New Mandala is a cesspit of ideological rubbish and nutters.

[JRSoul]

But, they haven't got rid of him.

That's part of my point.

I think people exaggerate Thaksin's aspirations, sometimes comparing him to the likes of Hitler.

He didn't need to control everything, as he already had the strongest democratic mandate in Thai history! (AFAIK)

I don't think anyone could argue that the military doesn't need some sort of stronger regulation and not have so much power also.

"....he already had the strongest democratic mandate in Thai history! (AFAIK)"

Ask yourself why he called an election 15 months into that mandate. It was to distract from the protests over his blatant corruption.

You are right about the coup, it was a mistake in timing. He should have been arrested, charged, tried, found guilty of corruption and abuse of position and jailed for 20 years if not executed.

If you were trulty against ant- corruption you would be screaming Sutheps name from the rooftops for him to be headed to the big tiger.

I might have you wrong? maybe I'll see it in your next post?

If Suthep's corruption was anywhere near the level of Thaksin's, you well might. Until then, fight one dragon at a time, biggest first.

Did you forget why he called that election? Did you forget his sister committing perjury (old definition) over his assets?

[HD 205]

But, they haven't got rid of him.

That's part of my point.

I think people exaggerate Thaksin's aspirations, sometimes comparing him to the likes of Hitler.

He didn't need to control everything, as he already had the strongest democratic mandate in Thai history! (AFAIK)

I don't think anyone could argue that the military doesn't need some sort of stronger regulation and not have so much power also.

"....he already had the strongest democratic mandate in Thai history! (AFAIK)"

Ask yourself why he called an election 15 months into that mandate. It was to distract from the protests over his blatant corruption.

You are right about the coup, it was a mistake in timing. He should have been arrested, charged, tried, found guilty of corruption and abuse of position and jailed for 20 years if not executed.

If you were trulty against ant- corruption you would be screaming Sutheps name from the rooftops for him to be headed to the big tiger.

I might have you wrong? maybe I'll see it in your next post?

If Suthep's corruption was anywhere near the level of Thaksin's, you well might. Until then, fight one dragon at a time, biggest first.

Did you forget why he called that election? Did you forget his sister committing perjury (old definition) over his assets?

No I didn't forget why he called the election, he didn't have to... did you forget?

Are you saying you support a lesser corruption than a greater one?

[monkeycountry]

The army undoubtedly want what is the best for the country. They are stuck in between the devil and the deep blue sea. However inaction could prove to be very costly as they may have no country to defend.

I know that a lot of reds won't be happy if their representatives are replaced but will they finally start obeying the law, stop corruption on a massive scale and stop bloody pillaging national economy for their own gains. Winning the election does not give the winning side automatic right to do as they're pleased. No matter what happens if Thailand is ever going to be normal country armed political party members and paramilitary formations on both sides (mainly UDD-no need to deny it) must be disarmed. Alternative is political violence for many years to come.

They don't want what's best for the country. They want what's best for their bank balance.

I didn't seem them giving back any of their gigantic funding increase after the coup or under abhisit.

Obviously worried that Cambodia or Burma were about to invade. Get away from this idea of the benevolent army. Armies fight wars, and the thai army isn't it even very good at that.

The army has been ordered to get rid of the Thaksin group, once and for all. The problem is the USA will immediately stop their enormous funding the minute the tanks roll. The generals that are feeding at this trough do not want to have that money flow cut so they are engineering a judicial coup.

The court, stacked with Thaksins enemies have been tasked to do the dirty work this time.

To hell with the voters.

Who gave the orders, the defence minister or some stupid idiot strutting around the streets causing trouble? I don't think the Army takes orders from people in the street but they take them from the government.

If the army takes their orders from the government, then why is the government always so worried about a coup. According to you the government must be able to avoid a coup simply by not ordering one - right?

I think we both know the army gives orders in Thailand,they don't take orders :-)

And considering the politicians they are supposed to take orders from, I prefer that the army makes its own decisions!

Edited February 25, 2014 by monkeycountry

[Artisi]

Why doesn't Yingluck avoid a coup by offering Ten Million Baht Reward for killers at Trat and Big C on her famous Facebook?

T.I.T.

My thoughts exactly, make the reward big enough and they will soon be found, of course sorting out all the scams would be the biggest problem - a bit like the war on drugs - got a score to settle - no problem he / she / they did it - believe me.

[risky11]

This was always going to end in a coup, judicial or otherwise. It was the goal of Suthep and the 'democrats' from day one.

Every court judgement has been against the caretaker government, not allowing the police to arrest people etc.

It's an absolute shame that a portion of the country would rather watch it crumble than to accept that in order for democracy to be achieved, your side can't always be in charge.

Why is democracy an achievement? The masses are ignorant and easily manipulated and bribed. The truth is: Democracy always degenerates into Mobocracy (for example Thailand). It's life is as short as it's end is vioelnt. Nuff said...

Edited February 25, 2014 by risky11

[HD 205]

This was always going to end in a coup, judicial or otherwise. It was the goal of Suthep and the 'democrats' from day one.

Every court judgement has been against the caretaker government, not allowing the police to arrest people etc.

It's an absolute shame that a portion of the country would rather watch it crumble than to accept that in order for democracy to be achieved, your side can't always be in charge.

"in order for democracy to be achieved" Why is democracy necessarily an achievement. The truth is: Democracy always degenerates into Mobocracy (for example Thailand). It's life is as short as it's end is vioelnt. Nuff said...

No not nuff said... what's your alternative?

[monkeycountry]

Yingluck hasn't paid the rice farmers this week as promised and so a Coup may be her excuse of why she didn't pay.

Let her pay then Coup.

T.I.T.

It's Tuesday!

Not that I think anything will change by friday :-)

[monkeycountry]

Thai army chief cautions nation may 'collapse' as violence escalates

&lt;deleted&gt;,.... just roll out the tanks, enact a coup and clean up the streets and government buildings of all the thugs possessing them before this ends up in a civil war!

I have heard from friends that tanks are being loaded onto train cars for transport to BKK.

And they heard it on red shirt radio!

Anyway, I hope they are right!

[monkeycountry]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In mature parliamentary countries, shouldn't the Army be subordinate to the elected government?

Yes. Unfortunately, the Thai military refuses to recognize that a civilian government has the authority to govern without the military's permission.

The Thai military is a lucrative business for its senior stakeholders and they have the weapons.

You want the military taking orders from Thaksin?

If they are lawful orders and Thaksin was the legally designated PM, then yes.

If the orders are illegal or otherwise violate the laws of Thailand, then the military is expected to disobey those orders. This is how a functioning democracy works. I appreciate that you dislike Thaksin. However, I ask you to consider another scenario. Let's say Abhisit was PM, and he ordered the military to crack down on alleged abuses of the Rohingya , i.e. to investigate the allegations against the navy and to bring charges against culpable military personnel, and the military refused. What then? The military must be accountable to the population.

Many countries' militaries have had to accept civilian governments they detested. Harry Truman wasn't too popular when he fired MacCarthur, but the US military carried out its responsibilities in a professional manner. The Nicaraguan military swallowed its pride when the Sandinistas were elected, and the end result has been peace. Chile, Argentina and Brazil saw their respective militaries subordinate themselves to civilian rule. The end result has been countries more peaceful and prosperous than when the militaries were running the show.

But then again in other countries that leader became really powerful with the help of the army, and turned those countries into dictatorships, and once that happens, civil war is almost the only way out.

I don't know about you, but I prefer a coup to civil war anytime, and I think so does almost anyone who has experienced civil war first hand.

[max72]

First the army causes the havoc and chaos through its proxy Suthep, than they come out as the "salvation army" and stage the damned coup.

That's what they wanted since the beginning.

To go on forever with military dictatorship for their interests and the interests of 20 billionaire families in a pseudo-feudal country.

Nothing new on the horizon.

They prefer a destroyed, divided and miserable country under their control, than a prosper fair country as Thailand could easily become without an army. Like Costa Rica did in 1948 abolishing the army, investing in education and having one of the freest and most democratic countries in the world. Thailand is just the opposite.

[Professor Kevin]

Coup Coup CA Chu... name that familiar tune of Thailand.

This time I for one welcome green shirts.

T.I.T.

And that's the intent of the violence. Get the public scared and weary of the ongoing violence.

Sabotage the civil government by preventing the civil authorities from dispersing the protestors and by legislating from the bench.

Then they will welcome the benevolent smiling generals.

Don't be a patsy.

You sir have done your homework and I will grade your post "A."

Seems there are two camps here on Thai Visa.

One camp reads the Thai papers (and believe it) and the other camp has schooled up and read the stuff that is being blocked & kept away from the masses.

ANU-Australia National University Asian Studies would be a good start to getting up to speed on the political issues in Thailand.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/category/thailand/

You must be joking, New Mandala is a cesspit of ideological rubbish and nutters.

I know, I know...Thaksin pays off the university too...

Just like he pays off The Economist, BBC, CNN, ABC etc.

Apparently he even pays off SuuKyi that threw her support toward him.

[Professor Kevin]

First the army causes the havoc and chaos through its proxy Suthep, than they come out as the "salvation army" and stage the damned coup.

That's what they wanted since the beginning.

To go on forever with military dictatorship for their interests and the interests of 20 billionaire families in a pseudo-feudal country.

Nothing new on the horizon.

They prefer a destroyed, divided and miserable country under their control, than a prosper fair country as Thailand could easily become without an army. Like Costa Rica did in 1948 abolishing the army, investing in education and having one of the freest and most democratic countries in the world. Thailand is just the opposite.

This poster apparently did his home work.

The Professor will grant this post "A" for comprehension of the issues.