Pheu Thai MPs sues six constitutional court judges in Criminal Court

[Thai at Heart]

What a screwed up system.

You accuse people of supporting something unconstitutional which is judged unconstitutional AFTER the fact.

How is someone supposed to know what is unconstutional before the court deems it so?

What a completely screwed up country.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

PTP consistently loose court cases and consistently break the law thus proving PTP need better quality legal advice

The thing with the law is "precedent".

All sorts of precedents are being set at the moment by the courts, and these precedents will be brought up and used against Abhisit and Suthep and the Democrats in future.

Whilst it may seem silly to the average person to pursue certain cases, the precedents being set in the rulings now are all for future reference.

One thing the lawyers aligned with PTP are doing is reporting all evidence and rulings and demonstrations and violence to the ICC (International Criminal Court)

Tonights kidnapping of the deputy government spokesperson by the PDRC has already been reported to the ICC according to a certain Mr Amsterdam.

A massive list of complaints against many people is lodged with the ICC, and these will come back to haunt people in the future, just like the precedents being set with every court ruling.

All in my opinion of course.

There is no strict precendebt law in thailand.

It makes the whole system so fair, transparent and reliable.

[Trembly]

What a screwed up system.

You accuse people of supporting something unconstitutional which is judged unconstitutional AFTER the fact.

How is someone supposed to know what is unconstutional before the court deems it so?

What a completely screwed up country.

Happens all the time in western countries with constitutions (such as the US). Laws and rulings are made and some of them end up being challenged. They are then sometimes re-examined and are either upheld or knocked back by the appropriate court.

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Edited February 25, 2014 by Trembly

[Thai at Heart]

What a screwed up system.

You accuse people of supporting something unconstitutional which is judged unconstitutional AFTER the fact.

How is someone supposed to know what is unconstutional before the court deems it so?

What a completely screwed up country.

Happens all the time in western countries with constitutions (such as the US). Laws and rulings are made and some of them end up being challenged. They are then sometimes re-examined and are either upheld or knocked back by the appropriate court.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not to the extent that it might disqualify hundreds of sitting MPs. How could they knowingly be violating the constitution when it needed an interpretation to deem it in contravention.

On the day that they did what they did, it wasn't constitutional. Its like retrospectively prosecuting people for speeding because you change the law.

Nuts system.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Trembly]

Did it [require an interpretation on the points of constitution that it was later ruled to have violated]? Maybe the rationale from Somjetn is that as lawmakers they should know the constitution inside out and therefore must face charges for wilful negligence or some such...

Just to play devil's advocate

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Edited February 25, 2014 by Trembly

[JRSoul]

How long before PTP is declared a vexatious litigant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation

I know, wrong code, right concept.

[smedly]

So ... will we have the Criminal Court trying the Constitutional Court ?

Although I doubt it ...... the mind boggles.

lol my thoughts exactly - maybe we will have the DSI move in and freeze the bank accounts of the CC court judges and bring about charges of insurrection - come on Tarit give it a go

LMFAO

Do these people really understand how foolish they look on the world stage

and yet the current system allows them to behave like this

I'm not going to subscribe to this topic any further because it is stupidity at levels that are beyond the grasp of anyone that has gone beyond the age of 10 - and ptp and the reds have already started to murder those under that age - perhaps they feel threatened

completely beyond belief

the system has got to change - perhaps introduce a mentality test for all those that wish to participate in government - they must prove they have a mental maturity age of greater than 18, as far as I can see that would be a major challenge

[JRSoul]

If the criminal court judges refuse to hear the case, will they be sued in the constitutional court?

[Thai at Heart]

Did it [require an interpretation on the points of constitution that it was later ruled to have violated]? Maybe the rationale from Somjetn is that as lawmakers they should know the constitution inside out and therefore must face charges for wilful negligence or some such...

Just to play devil's advocate

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Righto.

Very much devils advocate. Its one thing to judge it unconstitutional. Its another to punish them with breaking the constitution with something that requires a judgement.

Its a ludicrous dichotomy. Until someone deems it an illegal act, it can't be illegal. Its exactly the same as the less majesete situation. Everyone runs around in circles terrified if it, without clearly knowing it is.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Cnxforever]

With due respect precedent is less important in a civil law jurisdiction like Thailand and most European countries than in Anglo-Saxon common law jurisdictions. Remember the precedent of Sanan convicted in the constitutional court for asset concealment in 2001 was not taken into account when Thaksin was acquitted by the same court a couple of weeks later on seemingly stronger evidence. There are many similar cases where judges have ignored precedents and relied on their independent interpretations of statutory law.

But I agree that this flurry of litigation will create many interesting precedents that will be hard to ignore.

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Thaksin was not convicted for totally different reasons - a different kind of precedent in a way was set by the court with the acquittal of Thaksin - the precedent that the highest court can be interfered with in Thailand by "influential people" - 2 judges where "turned" during lunch break after the morning deliberations when they still found him guilty - they "suddenly changed their mind".

The verdict was questioned widely and was an absolute disgrace: two judges had only acquitted Thaksin ‘at the request of a person who has considerable clout’. One of these judges later said ‘I was forced to swallow my blood while writing this"

The former chairperson of the Constitution Court, Prasert Nasakul, who died in July 2009 belonged to the minority judges who found then PM Thaksin guilty of asset concealment.

Praserts integrity was tested when a certain "highly-respected" figure from the same group sounded him out about the outcome of the trial and asked him if his stand on some aspects of his deliberations should be reconsidered.

Not hesitating Prasert maintained that his opinion of the proceedings would conform to the law and nothing less.

He said later in an interview - " actually, I had certain things I wished I could tell you reporters without being asked". ‘But the truth could put you in danger…,’ the people who interfered with the courts ruling - until today - are so full of themselves that they do still not realize what they have done.

- by corrupting the highest court in the country they had sent the message on live TV to millions of Thais who where watching - the law only applies to certain people - if you are with us and do what we say we protect you even from the highest court in the country - with us you don't need to fear- you are above the law!

The message was loud and clear - and the Thai people heard it! They did not realize that they made a mockery out of the highest court and judiciary as a whole.

What these people also did not realize was - that from that day on - all "respect" that people might have had for the courts was gone as people could see clearly they are just as easily corrupted and can be influenced as everybody else in this country. the assumption of "Impartiality" of courts in Thailand was damaged beyond repair live on TV for all to see.

What they also did not realize that with what they did - they themselves had smashed the first brick in the wall they had built for decades to protect the status quo long before anybody even talked about a "grass-root movement" . Thailand was in shock - that was the day the country was divided - Thailand's slow and painful "revolution" was started by the very people who tried at any cost to avoid that "revolution".

Most other countries in the area had their "revolutions" to switch from feudal or even dictatorial rulers to more democratic systems - Thailand is just a bit late.

These people also hold the future of this country in their hands now - if they go silently we will have peace - if not Thailand's "revolution" will be more painful than it needs to be - but it will happen - there is no turning back without plunging the country back into the dark ages - the fine tuned Thai cultural system of "Sakdina" has been upset - does not apply anymore - it was destroyed by the people who did not stick to it's unwritten laws - people who think laws do not apply to them.

No society can be - for longer periods of time - in a state where some people think rules and laws do not apply to them only to others - this state will always upset others - and if enough "others" are upset we see an interference into the slow process of evolution - a revolution is started and the status quo is changed.

[Thai at Heart]

With due respect precedent is less important in a civil law jurisdiction like Thailand and most European countries than in Anglo-Saxon common law jurisdictions. Remember the precedent of Sanan convicted in the constitutional court for asset concealment in 2001 was not taken into account when Thaksin was acquitted by the same court a couple of weeks later on seemingly stronger evidence. There are many similar cases where judges have ignored precedents and relied on their independent interpretations of statutory law.

But I agree that this flurry of litigation will create many interesting precedents that will be hard to ignore.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Thaksin was not convicted for totally different reasons - a different kind of precedent in a way was set by the court with the acquittal of Thaksin - the precedent that the highest court can be interfered with in Thailand by "influential people" - 2 judges where "turned" during lunch break after the morning deliberations when they still found him guilty - they "suddenly changed their mind".

The verdict was questioned widely and was an absolute disgrace: two judges had only acquitted Thaksin at the request of a person who has considerable clout. One of these judges later said I was forced to swallow my blood while writing this"

The former chairperson of the Constitution Court, Prasert Nasakul, who died in July 2009 belonged to the minority judges who found then PM Thaksin guilty of asset concealment.

Praserts integrity was tested when a certain "highly-respected" figure from the same group sounded him out about the outcome of the trial and asked him if his stand on some aspects of his deliberations should be reconsidered.

Not hesitating Prasert maintained that his opinion of the proceedings would conform to the law and nothing less.

He said later in an interview - " actually, I had certain things I wished I could tell you reporters without being asked". But the truth could put you in danger, the people who interfered with the courts ruling - until today - are so full of themselves that they do still not realize what they have done.

- by corrupting the highest court in the country they had sent the message on live TV to millions of Thais who where watching - the law only applies to certain people - if you are with us and do what we say we protect you even from the highest court in the country - with us you don't need to fear- you are above the law!

The message was loud and clear - and the Thai people heard it! They did not realize that they made a mockery out of the highest court and judiciary as a whole.

What these people also did not realize was - that from that day on - all "respect" that people might have had for the courts was gone as people could see clearly they are just as easily corrupted and can be influenced as everybody else in this country. the assumption of "Impartiality" of courts in Thailand was damaged beyond repair live on TV for all to see.

What they also did not realize that with what they did - they themselves had smashed the first brick in the wall they had built for decades to protect the status quo long before anybody even talked about a "grass-root movement" . Thailand was in shock - that was the day the country was divided - Thailand's slow and painful "revolution" was started by the very people who tried at any cost to avoid that "revolution".

Most other countries in the area had their "revolutions" to switch from feudal or even dictatorial rulers to more democratic systems - Thailand is just a bit late.

These people also hold the future of this country in their hands now - if they go silently we will have peace - if not Thailand's "revolution" will be more painful than it needs to be - but it will happen - there is no turning back without plunging the country back into the dark ages - the fine tuned Thai cultural system of "Sakdina" has been upset - does not apply anymore - it was destroyed by the people who did not stick to it's unwritten laws - people who think laws do not apply to them.

No society can be - for longer periods of time - in a state where some people think rules and laws do not apply to them only to others - this state will always upset others - and if enough "others" are upset we see an interference into the slow process of evolution - a revolution is started and the status quo is changed.

Many a nation, empire or society has been brought down by the people feeling that the system is unjust.

Once u believe it is unjust, what is the point in maintaining the status quo only to wait for the system to turn on you? May as well fight to change it.

Yes, that decision was the catalyst to all of this. I am amazed that it is considered that to be the decision that was the start of thw downfall of the justice system.

It was bent long before that, just no one noticed.

[pisico]

Ironic that the PTP charge others of abuse of power...

Poetic Justice?

Those who usually ruled in favor of the AMMART are now being sued.

All administrations are marred by the instituonalized industry of corruption which is the cradle of abuse of power.

The Rule of Law is selectively used when it benefits a ruling group.

Remember the Palm Oil scheme, scam? Now is the Rice scheme pledge?

Same same but different commodity.

The judges are AMMART, traditionally in favor of things AMMART. Therefore, anti anything not AMMART.

One thing is sure, this country has the best justice that money can buy,

[noitom]

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didn't we have a similar case last year with the government complaining that just about anyone could petition the Constitutional Court? Isn't that why the Pheu Thai led government wanted to amend a constitution article to 'protect' the Constitutional Court from frivolous petitions by introduction a screening body like the Attorney-General. All for the sake of democracy of course.

BTW what happened with the Government and Ms. Yingluck's respect for the Constitutional Court? Is it a matter of "odd days yes, even days no" ?

Yes odds or evens in Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

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didn't we have a similar case last year with the government complaining that just about anyone could petition the Constitutional Court? Isn't that why the Pheu Thai led government wanted to amend a constitution article to 'protect' the Constitutional Court from frivolous petitions by introduction a screening body like the Attorney-General. All for the sake of democracy of course.

BTW what happened with the Government and Ms. Yingluck's respect for the Constitutional Court? Is it a matter of "odd days yes, even days no" ?

Yes odds or evens in Thailand.

The perceived interpretation was that complaints were supposed to go through the AG. The constitutional court interpreted it differently.

Bear in mind, when the constitution Was written, it was believed the dems and abhisit would win and Thaksin would be happily sipping cocktails in Dubai.

[TheClog]

So it appears that only the Military Junta can alter the constitution?

We'll, they concocted it, and they imposed it.

[retarius]

We read about all these cases...do any of them ever get resolved? I'm still waiting to hear what happened to those cops bailed on appeal from death row...or that Mercedes kid who rammed into a crowd of people at a bus stop....justice delayed is justice denied.

[SanSaiExPat]

Ironic that the PTP charge others of abuse of power...

Why? Where's the irony? Enlighten us with a few specifics. I'm asking because your implication is there was gross abuse of power by PTP. I know what you will most likely say, but humor me and spell it out. Thanks.

[animatic]

For those of you who know a lot about the Thai legal system.

Could this just be a delaying tactic or will the case against the 314 MP's carry or regardless?

Carry on regardless.

They can try and try the court over the criminal court, but then no matter what it gets appealed to The Constitutional Court.

They are accused of accepting a petition. nothing more, a simple is i9t criminally legal or not case.

Since it has been done within the mechanism of the constitution it must be legal, just not to the liking of PTP.

PTP always uses the attack with the same charges you are accused of tactic.

They are so transparently corrupt and brainless it boggles the mind.

[SanSaiExPat]

The PTP is pissing into the wind with this law suit...just wasting everybody's time...but the PTP knows that...it's all for the consumption of the mislead.

By the "mislead" you mean the majority of the voting Thai public that elected this government in a democratically held election. Because you and the other socialist democratic elites don't like the results of the elections you categorize the electorate as "mislead" minions too stupid to manage their own lives. You would prefer that the old money elites and Bangkok University intelligentsia rule Thailand. To that end you and the others want the constitution changed to preclude the conservatives from winning an election again. With the courts in their back pockets pulling strings and handing down rulings unfavorable to the current government the Sutheps and their ilk might just get their way. It's the same way Obama has packed the courts in America so when the people vote for a State amendment the liberal activist courts declare the amendment unconstitutional. I applaud what the Pheu Thai MPs are doing. They are confronting the courts obvious bias and shoving it down their throat. I wish they would win but it might indeed be a quixotic exercise.

[SanSaiExPat]

The PTP is pissing into the wind with this law suit...just wasting everybody's time...but the PTP knows that...it's all for the consumption of the mislead.

By the "mislead" you mean the majority of the voting Thai public that elected this government in a democratically held election. Because you and the other socialist democratic elites don't like the results of the elections you categorize the electorate as "mislead" minions too stupid to manage their own lives. You would prefer that the old money elites and Bangkok University intelligentsia rule Thailand. To that end you and the others want the constitution changed to preclude the conservatives from winning an election again. With the courts in their back pockets pulling strings and handing down rulings unfavorable to the current government the Sutheps and their ilk might just get their way. It's the same way Obama has packed the courts in America so when the people vote for a State amendment the liberal activist courts declare the amendment unconstitutional. I applaud what the Pheu Thai MPs are doing. They are confronting the courts obvious bias and shoving it down their throat. I wish they would win but it might indeed be a quixotic exercise.

[fab4]

didn't we have a similar case last year with the government complaining that just about anyone could petition the Constitutional Court? Isn't that why the Pheu Thai led government wanted to amend a constitution article to 'protect' the Constitutional Court from frivolous petitions by introduction a screening body like the Attorney-General. All for the sake of democracy of course.

BTW what happened with the Government and Ms. Yingluck's respect for the Constitutional Court? Is it a matter of "odd days yes, even days no" ?

No, rubl, it wasn't.

The previous "case" involving the amendment of the constitution and article 68 being friviously applied by the dems was the fact that it SHOULD go through the Attorney General for vetting before passing to the CC as has been the case before and documented.

The CC decided to override that rule, thus allowing the floodgate of ridiculous article 68 applications and even more ludicrous judgments by the CC.

The ultimate being the amendment to the Senate ruling which found the proposed amendment being judged as having "overthrown the system of government with the King as Head of State" but not imposing any penalty!

The actions of a consistent court?Don't make me laugh.

Of course you and your ilk won't listen to a word I say, but why not investigate beyond The Nation and this forum, with an unjaundiced eye, to find out for yourselves?

[rubl]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

didn't we have a similar case last year with the government complaining that just about anyone could petition the Constitutional Court? Isn't that why the Pheu Thai led government wanted to amend a constitution article to 'protect' the Constitutional Court from frivolous petitions by introduction a screening body like the Attorney-General. All for the sake of democracy of course.

BTW what happened with the Government and Ms. Yingluck's respect for the Constitutional Court? Is it a matter of "odd days yes, even days no" ?

Yes odds or evens in Thailand.

The perceived interpretation was that complaints were supposed to go through the AG. The constitutional court interpreted it differently.

Bear in mind, when the constitution Was written, it was believed the dems and abhisit would win and Thaksin would be happily sipping cocktails in Dubai.

I doubt that is was perceived that the Democratic party would 'win' many more seats than they normally do. That's assuming you were referring to the December 2007 general election.

BTW democracy is a wee bit more than just 'winning an election'. If it was only about elections and respect my vote till it's counted, the election commission could take a tour to North Korea

[rubl]

didn't we have a similar case last year with the government complaining that just about anyone could petition the Constitutional Court? Isn't that why the Pheu Thai led government wanted to amend a constitution article to 'protect' the Constitutional Court from frivolous petitions by introduction a screening body like the Attorney-General. All for the sake of democracy of course.

BTW what happened with the Government and Ms. Yingluck's respect for the Constitutional Court? Is it a matter of "odd days yes, even days no" ?

No, rubl, it wasn't.

The previous "case" involving the amendment of the constitution and article 68 being friviously applied by the dems was the fact that it SHOULD go through the Attorney General for vetting before passing to the CC as has been the case before and documented.

The CC decided to override that rule, thus allowing the floodgate of ridiculous article 68 applications and even more ludicrous judgments by the CC.

The ultimate being the amendment to the Senate ruling which found the proposed amendment being judged as having "overthrown the system of government with the King as Head of State" but not imposing any penalty!

The actions of a consistent court?Don't make me laugh.

Of course you and your ilk won't listen to a word I say, but why not investigate beyond The Nation and this forum, with an unjaundiced eye, to find out for yourselves?

no, my dear fabs. It was because the Pheu Thai party WANTED it to go through the OAG. Just a matter of better control and breaking down checks and balances.

Of course I read whatever nonsense you write. At times I even bother to correct you and point out where you let your imagination run amok. Mostly you'll ignore my freely offered information, but then truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth doesn't seem to be your aim, now does it?

[SOTIRIOS]

.........now...upholding the constitution...if it doesn't suit your devious ways....is 'abuse'......

[HOOD Robin]

And if the criminal court judges don't find in our favor we will sue them too and if that doesn't work we will talk to Thida about getting the reds to deal with them.

Still attempting to intimidate the courts and judges.

Do they not realize that they are making themselves look worse every time they do something like this ?

PT democracy.

Please army boss, get rid off EVERYTHING that's Red in Thailand as it is only

[GeorgeO]

good luck to them - they are right, obvious to any independent observer, but will get nowhere unfortunately as the courts are part of the 'system' designed to retain power for the elite

...well, to many "independent" observers, particularly those like me - with three years of legal training - it is obvious that the demand to see the case against the PTP dismissed is groundless.

You spout on about the "elite", clearly failing to recognize that your beloved leader KhunT is one of the "elite". If someone makes a move against the constitution, there exists a right amongst all citizens to oppose it.

The PTP attempted to subvert the constitutional system and ANY citizen, not necessarily someone in public office, would have the right to bring a case against them.