Aquaponic and Hydroponic Hobby Growing

[Smithson]

The price sound very reasonable, I am paying B80 for a large bag (100lt?) and B100 for a compressed bail of husks (unchipped). I'm told in the south coir is B400 a ton. Do you know what treatment the Knapp coir has been through? They have a 1,500 lt bag also I see.  I'd be interested to see how it compares to rice husks.

 

Please let me know a little more about your NFT system, as I plan to do one myself but have no experience. What will you grow? Will you mix your own nutes? Where in LOS are you? The hydro place we get our greens from is all NFT.  There are dozens of stand alone systems, each with their own ceramic reservoir (possibly to control temps, but the tops are open to the air). They struggled a bit through last summer, but most plants still grew.

[Hereinthailand]

Not sure what they treat with but if you email them you will get an english speaking person who will answer all your questions very quickly (what an idea haha). I was thinking about the 1500 ltr bag myself, and yes 100 ltr.s seems to be the same bag size as I buy here. I bought 100 ltr.s of perlite from higreen and it was the same size bag too. I have to make a stand for my rails next and will post a pic of it when finished. I am going to order some more of the 3 mtr. rails next week as they are 150 baht now and end caps are 25 baht for future expansion.As they are small rails I will grow lettuce and spinach mainly, maybe some herbs. I have been buying a liquid A-B mix from DO Home but not sure of the contents but says its for greens, seems to work okay. Trying to mix nutrients for small batches is kind of a pain really and not sure with higreens concentrated 5-10-20 ltr. packs i would be saving any money or enough to make mixing my own worth it. Hydro Buddy Calculator is great but geared for 1000 ltr batches which I dont need now. there is a thai guy not far from me who has invested a lot in a large nft greenhouse setup, very nice but they dont have a clue of what they are doing. He lost his first batch, I dont think they check any nutrient or ph levels. Everything is open and it is an algae growth mess. I dont think he has any idea how much light and temps affect his operation, I would like to help but I have lived here long enough to know better than to try. I am in the khon kaen area but may be moving as I cant find any land around here that is reasonable to buy.

[Smithson]

I see a lot of hydro places closes, but also lots that open and seem to go well, then close. My guess is it's down to labor issues or bad planning/distribution.

 

Yesterday I picked up 49 NFT channels with stands for B5,700. Now I have to learn how to use them.

 

 

I'll set up a 10 to begin with, then the rest when I get the hang of things, hopefully by the wet season and I'll build a greenhouse to. With the insect mesh, the finest holes would seem best for keeping out critters, but may also affect air flow and increase humidity. This is something I need to look into.

 

If I plan to set up all those tubes, then I need to consider a backup power supply. I've read that DC pumps are twice as efficient as AC, so I will look into a solar set up with batteries.

 

Basil and Italian parsley doing well in the dry weather.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Smithson
add pics

[Hereinthailand]

Thats a good buy on those the stands are worth more than the rails. I think the main problem is most have no idea how big a learning curve running a hydro system for profit is, its easy to hobby around with hydro but to make a profit is a big problem, vegetables are really cheap to buy here. I toyed with the idea of small scale farming but it would not be for profit as there just isnt a market for quality vegetables. Many falangs claim to make money but not one I have met keeps books or records of their expenses so how does one know what they have actually made ? Even the thais really dont make any money for their time farming, they just make their food and some extra to sell which is what i am aiming for. I dont really like the idea of the amounts of chemicals in the food used here and many used are banned for years in the west. Not sure if dc pumps would be worth the extra cost as you would need brushless motors which are expensive killing your electric savings, eventually I will setup small pv panels/MPPT controller/battery to run the pumps and air pumps, each system having its own power supply and the only thing I will have to worry about is pump failure. Learning to program an arduino micro controller lately to automate things and setup an alarm for the pumps. Go with the small netting and hang a small fan to help with air flow. I am thinking about going to the Agritech show next month and look around for some suppliers and also run down to higreens shop and look at some of their nutrient packs and other things.

[Hereinthailand]

Also forgot to say pickup some bleach and soak those rails good to disinfect them before use, maybe even power wash them after disinfecting.

[Smithson]

Yes the set up was a bargain, I'm trying to work out what is the best method,  a single pump and reservoir or a heap of small systems each with their own pump - this is what I've seen mostly in LOS, it would be more work but less chance of spreading disease. However outside of LOS they seem to have a single pump reservoir for large green houses. This may be due to auto feeding systems.

 

I've seen brushless DC pumps on ebay for $15, although I have no idea how effective they are or what else is needed to make things solar. A power loss of more than a few mins would be a disaster with NFT, so I need to consider this. Any idea of how difficult/expensive it would be to run DC pumps of mains elec? This would get me headed in the right direction and I could add panels etc. to complete the system later.

 

With all the rails I have, there are 735 lettuce holes. With a growth period of 30 days, this would allow for 24 plants per day. Sold these for B25ea, the return would be B612 per day. With labor, elec, nutes etc., I think profit margins would be small.

 

I was hoping to avoid having to bleach everything, which is why I prefer AP where you don't have to worry about sterilizing.

[Hereinthailand]

You could make a plastic lined trough in the ground and fill with a bleach solution then just let them soak for a day or so to clean themusing a larger . The one thing here in thailand with nft is you will be fighting water temps so maybe a large system with your tank in the ground will be the only option in the hot part of the year. If you are monocropping say lettuce not a problem really and using a larger pump to feed your rails will be more economical. DWC was developed for the tropics due to the heat and having a large mass of water is easier to control temps but you dont have the crop density like nft. Any ac dc converter should work fime for your dc pumps even a large battery charger as long as it will meet the pumps demand, you could even run the charger to a battery bank and feed that to your pumps as a backup power supply. 12 or 24 volts on the pump wont matter as you can setup your batteries for either. I was in Makro last nite and they had greenhouse lettuce 1 kilo for 89B still had the roots on and wasnt looking good as no on seemed to be buying. The guy down the road says he can sell for 100B a kilo so I dont see much profit there. If you can be near bangkok and wanted to make money visit some higher end restaurants and try to find a market there, they will pay more for clean fresh lettuce and vegetables. Its going to be all about marketing to higher end places to make any money as I said before vegetables are just to cheap here and the majority of people either dont have thee income for it or just dont know or think about what they are eating.

[Hereinthailand]

I dont know if you saw my post on the apps by hazera for tomatos, onions and brassicas. you can find them in the app store, just search hazera and there are 3 different apps. Really good disease and pest info with great pics and free too.

[CLW]

What would be the smallest size for an aquaponics fish tank to keep a few Tilapia or Catfish.
I'm concerned about the temperature.

[Hereinthailand]

Not any easy answers for this but remember you need more plants than fish as they will produce a lot of waste and you risk the chance of toxicity to the plants. The more water mass the better the temp control. here is some reading to get you thinking.

http://www.fao.org/3/a-i4021e/i4021e04.pdf

http://www.ctsa.org/files/publications/CTSA_aquaponicsHowTo.pdf

https://www.friendlyaquaponics.com/docs/AquaponicstheEASYWaySampleRed.pdf

https://www.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/tri_state/tristate_2014/talks/PDFs/Aquaponic_System_Design_and_Management.pdf

[Smithson]

An AP system can be small, but you will have temp fluctuations. Search the net for small systems to get ideas.

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[Smithson]

I got my first purchase from Higreen today, which included tom nutes.

It's a seven part mix, plus a bit of ph down. B520, compared to B900 from Ack. Each bag is marked listing separate nutes.

I've set up an nft system, I'm experimenting using hydro, ap and organic hydro running alongside each other.

Most obvious thing from the start is temp difference. Due to the small tank hydro got up to 35 quickly, while ap with it's large water supply, was at 26.

Ran into first problem today - a one hour power outage. Any suggestions affordable back up? Maybe batteries that could later be hooked up to solar?

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[Hereinthailand]

^ Looking good so far, that nft system went together nicely. What size flow rate are you using for your rails ? On your power problem try to figure up your power needs(voltage, total watts etc.) and then we can figure out the best and most cost effective solution for your backup. If you go dc on the pumps like you talked about very easy to do Panel, battery, mppt controller or small inverter if you go ac. Can you weigh out your nutrient packs and tell me what they are ? I want to see if there is any cost saving buying the individual components in bulk. The packs would save a lot of hassle even if they cost a little more. Again Higreen is a great supplier so far for me.

[Smithson]

I sent you a PM.  I'll check on the electrical details. Running three systems makes it a bit harder, for the meantime I'll rig up something with the mains water and run to waste when there's an outage.

[Smithson]

Regarding the flow rate, what's the standard way to measure it and what should I be aiming for?

The only way I can think of is catching and measuring the run off.

Some links on hydro in Thailand, with a focus on passive systems.
https://hydrofarmer.wordpress.com/tag/nft/

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[Hereinthailand]

Your pumps should have a liter per minute tag somewhere ? How long are your rails and how many are you running ?

[Smithson]

I thought the specs were not accurate, especially considering varying head heights? The rails are 3m. The ap and organic hydro are running two each, with the hydro running 4.

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[CLW]

I thought the specs were not accurate, especially considering varying head heights? The rails are 3m. The ap and organic hydro are running two each, with the hydro running 4.

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If you have the original packaging box of your pump sometimes there is diagram that shows the flow depending on the height. Or you could try website of pump manufacturer

[Smithson]

What about measuring the drain off?

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[jvs]

On 3/3/2017 at 5:10 PM, Smithson said:

I got my first purchase from Higreen today, which included tom nutes.

It's a seven part mix, plus a bit of ph down. B520, compared to B900 from Ack. Each bag is marked listing separate nutes.

I've set up an nft system, I'm experimenting using hydro, ap and organic hydro running alongside each other.

Most obvious thing from the start is temp difference. Due to the small tank hydro got up to 35 quickly, while ap with it's large water supply, was at 26.

Ran into first problem today - a one hour power outage. Any suggestions affordable back up? Maybe batteries that could later be hooked up to solar?

Sent from my i-mobile IQ II using Tapatalk
 

Because of power outage we have decided to use round pipe,the power can be off for over 5 hours and still there

will be water at the roots.We use an aquarium pump which normally runs all day and night.

[Smithson]

^Nice set up. It would be interesting to see a comparison done between regular NFT, round NFT and DWC, including the DWC.

[jvs]

I have no idea what you mean by NFT or DWC.but i would think it is about what kind of pipe to use.

When we started out we found so many different ideas and opinions it was nearly enough to stop before we got started.

We finally found some one who had had hydroponics for years and we copied his system.During the next two years we kept improving and tweeking the system and what we have now is very simple and very easy to build and maintain.

As usual we stop around the first of March because where we are it just gets too hot.

If we shade it more there is not enough light and more sun just burns the plants.

We always let a few plants grow for seed,we used to buy them for one Baht a piece.Now we have thousands at no cost.

 

[rice555]

6 hours ago, jvs said:

I have no idea what you mean by NFT or DWC.but i would think it is about what kind of pipe to use.

When we started out we found so many different ideas and opinions it was nearly enough to stop before we got started.

We finally found some one who had had hydroponics for years and we copied his system.During the next two years we kept improving and tweeking the system and what we have now is very simple and very easy to build and maintain.

As usual we stop around the first of March because where we are it just gets too hot.

If we shade it more there is not enough light and more sun just burns the plants.

We always let a few plants grow for seed,we used to buy them for one Baht a piece.Now we have thousands at no cost.

 

NFT is just a film, small amount of of nutrients, and as the DWC is deep, the roots sit in nutrients, more common term used in

raft systems where foam board is floated on top of the nutrients, also DFT is used in bubble ponies with an air stone.

Your system is a cross of the two, NFT-DWC or a Hyb.

The guy that got me into hydro here in LOS 2001 has a system like your's, the bell reducers change it from NFT to your Hyb. system .

He uses 2.5" white PVC, there are pic's of it in several of the hydro threads here.

rice555

[cobbler]

Hi im interested in seeing how many other farang are in aquaponics in bangkok. Interested to meet and maybe do breakfast or something. Maybe share/pick your brains 555 about ideas. Ive done it before and am interested in starting a small set up. Pleawe let me know,would appreciate the english.
Cheers Cobbler

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[bangkokairportlink]

Hello, is there any good website selling equipment for hydro in Thailand ?

And is it easier to be successful growing vegetables than in soil ?

 

Thanks.

[Smithson]

We built a bamboo greenhouse using borax treated bamboo, painting the bamboo white protects it from UV rays and water damage. The bamboo is joined by metal hex screws, using the timber ones causes crack.

 

To the left of greenhouse is the AP system, this is almost three years old. The plastic needs to be redone. Despite being drenched by moonsoon rains, the bamboo still holds up fine after almost three year.

 

The NFT system is growing veggies for my wife's restaurant. It's saves both time and money, once set up there is only a little labor.

 

The netting is large mosquito nets sewn together, it works ok and is cheap enough, but I can't see it lasting long.

 

The AP system is doing OK, Italian parsley and basil seem stronger and healthier when grown here rather than the hydro set up.

 

Above the fish tank are containers for BSFL, when ready the larvae drop straight into the tank, where the fish are waiting.

 

Here are the larvae, they eat food scraps (much of the chillies etc. that is hostile to worms).