We favour a democratic Lanna republic, Chiang Mai group says

[Soutpeel]

Thais would not be looking to split the country in two, if there vote was to count!

Relegating the poor to a substandard education.

The yellow shirts have never wanted a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don't want educated well informed voters.

They want workers.

Until you change the education system here, its going to be ground hog day for a very long time to come.

Meanwhile the yellow shirts have got what they wished for.

An uneducated people to control.

They just didn't bank on it being a red shirt controlling them.

How have the Thaksin proxy parties improved education in the 10 or so years they've been in power since 2001?

Of course they bought everyone an I-pad didn't they ?

[balford]

And this all begs the question as to what money they'll use in this proposed contravention of the Constitution? The present coin of the realm has the King's image on it.

Bob A. Relaxed in Lampang

[Issangeorge]

It will be interesting to see what the markets do on Monday. If the higher up financial guys think there is any chance of this happening, the Baht will fall a lot and so will the Thai Stock Market.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mosha]

...for the umpteenth time........

....look up the definition of TREASON......

Forgot about Treason Just came back from Church where I prayed for Peace and Love all over the World

We need more pray in this world

Did it work?

[Jingthing]

Well I don't think it's a serious threat yet.

However who knows how things might develop?

For example it's not like Yingluck is secure in her legal position, "governing" in hiding and by Facebook blurbs and all that.

Suppose things get worse and then she sets up a new base in CM and surrounds herself with a new Northern protection army like in African civil war conflicts, not the Thai army.

Then suppose Thaksin returns.

Science fiction or in the realm of possibility?

Edited March 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[FiftyTwo]

Most of us know this will not happen. Even as appealing as it maybe.

What shocks me is how many right wingers are actually terrified by this prospect.

Who's terrified of this happening? Most people just think it's stupid.

If it happened, it couldn't happen without a major civil war, and THAT is terrifying. I don't see a scenario where a radical Northern minority says, yes we want to do this, and the rest of the country says, sure thing OK!

It wouldn't be a minority.

A lot of old white guys seem to have problems with defining democracy and counting votes.

Most of the voters are poor and live in East and North Thailand.

That's why the yellow shirts never win elections.

Until the yellow coup leaders can find a way to remove the poor from the voting list, they can't win.

When the yellow elite do decide on a way to stop poor people voting, then they will have a civil war.

Bit of a dilemma really!

[Mosha]

Thais would not be looking to split the country in two, if there vote was to count!

Relegating the poor to a substandard education.

The yellow shirts have never wanted a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don't want educated well informed voters.

They want workers.

Until you change the education system here, its going to be ground hog day for a very long time to come.

Meanwhile the yellow shirts have got what they wished for.

An uneducated people to control.

They just didn't bank on it being a red shirt controlling them.

How have the Thaksin proxy parties improved education in the 10 or so years they've been in power since 2001?

By giving cheap tablets to primary school children.

That pack in within hours.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Thais would not be looking to split the country in two, if there vote was to count!

Relegating the poor to a substandard education.

The yellow shirts have never wanted a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don't want educated well informed voters.

They want workers.

Until you change the education system here, its going to be ground hog day for a very long time to come.

Meanwhile the yellow shirts have got what they wished for.

An uneducated people to control.

They just didn't bank on it being a red shirt controlling them.

How have the Thaksin proxy parties improved education in the 10 or so years they've been in power since 2001?

By giving cheap tablets to primary school children.

That pack in within hours.

That's not the spirit - its the thought that counts!!!

[Crushdepth]

Hmmm….landlocked country with hostile neighbour controlling all the trade and transport links. Yep, that'll work.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It would not be land locked, would control much of the raw product Bangkok needs to function water, labor, electrical power, rice etc.

You must have not understood what was stated, if Bangkok wanted an "appointed dictatorship", which most of democratic Thailand will not agree to!

Cheers

You need to look at a map.

[Crushdepth]

555 the Red Shirts know that Yingluck is about to be deposed and replaced with some kind of unelected government more palatable to the Bangkok elites. That is what they are protesting against.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If deposed has got their knickers in a knot, just wait until she is arrested, jailed and her assets seized to compensate for her gross negligence, corruption and general idiocy.

Nothing from Yingluck for over 24 hours now, I'm wondering if she is already in Dubai?

She's in the Democratic People's Republic of Lannawatra.

[Jingthing]

Would "old" Thailand change its name back to SIAM?

Also once you start splitting up, why stop there?

How about troubled South Thailand?

How is it that Isaan and Lanna should be TOGETHER? Better split?

Chonburi province with Pattaya as capital becoming PATTAYALAND? CASINOS!

Edited March 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[kimamey]

"He said there were three factors behind the idea of setting up a "Republic of Lanna". Firstly, people in the North were looked down upon by others, with the PDRC often referring to red shirts as "red water buffaloes". Secondly, the opposing group did not respect the law and there were double standards in the judicial system. The third reason, he said, was the undemocratic aspirations of the PDRC.

Looking down on red shirts as 'red-water buffaloes' was a severe form of discrimination against human dignity, Petchawat noted."

This has been repeated to death over and over by Abhisit and later Suthep.

Touch any Thai on his head and let' see how you will end.

The same goes for the name calling "buffalo".

If this people are "dumb" and "can not vote". educate them instead of barring them of a basic constitutional right.

And the idea of an independent "Lanna" state goes further as Chiang Mai.

Most of Issaan are for pro for that idea.

If the idea of an Lanna country would come trough, Bangkok would be nothing more than a piece of land sinking fast in the sea.

Finally, as another poster in this thread stated, Thaksin is one of the richest people in the world.

The farmers in Issaan knows that and Thaksin has been helping the Issaan people for many years.

He would be welcomed back in Issaan and help the Issaan community and economic.

Not what Suthep did with his rally,

Rant on as much as you want, it is a fact that the idea of segregation will be the only way out for the Bangkokian hate culture.

If Thaksin is one of the richest people in the world why doesn't he pay the farmers? Or maybe give an interest free loan to Thailand . I don't know if that would get past the rules that the reds and PTP don't want applied but it's a thought.

It's true that Thaksin did do things for the north and north east but not with his money in the same way you don't see his money helping the farmers now. It's the country's money and they haven't got enough of it to pay their debt to the farmers. It's an old trick to appear to help in order to get access to what you want. In the end it seems he took too much.

How do you know that most of Isaan is pro? I live there and it's true that there are red shirts all round me but if you go into the city and government workers then it's very different. Early last year there were quite a few Thaksin calenders but I don't see any now. It doesn't prove you wrong but it doesn't back up your view either. Do you really expect those that don't agree to just move?

I don't know where you think the border will be but I don't think that the bit left will be Bangkok. Try looking at a map of Thailand before you post.

I'm pretty certain that the reason for this call is that they know they can vote in their own side. If it ever changed they would complain again. It's a big undertaking and I'm not sure they've thought it through.

Touch any Thai on his head and let' see how you will end.

I'm not sure why you've put this but I assume you're referring to the fact that there's some uniquely Thai cultural aversion to this practice. I've seen many articles that state you shouldn't touch a Thai on the head, even a child. I've seen Thais do it all the time to children and even on one occasion to an adult although they were friends. I don't know about other countries but in the UK you'd be pushing your luck if you did that to an adult as well so it's not just Thais.

Edited March 2, 2014 by kimamey

[MK1]

Another illegitimate group, invented by the local red shirts, trying to set-up a secular state, for the purpose of bringing home and harboring their exiled leader. No doubt the so called four million out of six million northerners, who supposable support this idea, have not yet been fairly consulted and these numbers of support are just fictitious invented figures at this stage. The sooner the Army seizes control to eliminate these fantasies; the better things will be.

[kimamey]

Most of us know this will not happen. Even as appealing as it maybe.

What shocks me is how many right wingers are actually terrified by this prospect.

Who's terrified of this happening? Most people just think it's stupid.

If it happened, it couldn't happen without a major civil war, and THAT is terrifying. I don't see a scenario where a radical Northern minority says, yes we want to do this, and the rest of the country says, sure thing OK!

It wouldn't be a minority.

A lot of old white guys seem to have problems with defining democracy and counting votes.

Most of the voters are poor and live in East and North Thailand.

That's why the yellow shirts never win elections.

Until the yellow coup leaders can find a way to remove the poor from the voting list, they can't win.

When the yellow elite do decide on a way to stop poor people voting, then they will have a civil war.

Bit of a dilemma really!

Have the Yellow Shirt party ever contested an election?

[monkeycountry]

democratic republic of taksin shinawatra buffaloes? The reality is nothing is made up there and everything would need to be imported from Thailand, including rice. Then they would become a land locked poor country like Laos. It would be economic suicide. Also all the people around Chiang Mai are from different ethnic groups and are not one people, so its not true you could have a united Lanna kingdom. idiotic thinking?

I have seen numerous rice fields in the north, no need to buy from Bangkok. I think they could survive on their own. It won't happen tho and it shouldn't happen. What next the people in the south set up their own little state? The Hi So's of Bangkok would be cut off and would have to actually set up their own rice fields in the city and work them.

What is this obsession with rice fields as if it is something one cannot live without? There is not a single rice field in my home country or any of the neighbouring countries for that matter, yet the supermarkets there still manage to have plenty of fairly cheap rice on the shelves? If the new Lanna state does not want to sell rice to Bangkok, I am quite sure Vietnam, Cambodia and India will be happy to at cheap prices - the same goes for labour btw. Fact is, there is nothing whatsoever in the north and northeast that Bangkok needs that cannot be imported cheap and plentiful from pretty much anywhere. Singapore does it, and they seem to be doing fine. Of course they do not have to subsidice millions of farmers like Bangkok does. Edited March 2, 2014 by monkeycountry

[Thai at Heart]

When bangkok receives 14 times the public service spending per head to the rest of the country, there has to be something that needs to be done to modify that situation.

Can I ask where the "14 times" figure comes from?

Quoted from one of the threads last week explaining how Bangkok centric the country is. I was extremely shocked to see it, and it does beg thai question, "how corrupt is the BMA?"

This centralisation of money to Bangkok is a very big problem, and part of the hold that the Shinawatras are able to have over the north and north east.

I saw it with my own eyes after the coup. The money into the town where I was just dried up. I am not saying that the local guys aren't corrupt, but the amount of stuff that has been built over the last week 10 years is enormous.

They even stopped building and underground tunnel at a junction after the coup. The funding just dried up. That is at least what the people in my old town in isaan believe. Just look at the development around the train lines that is going on in korat, kkc and Udon.

They believe that the shinawats send them money. If they could tax it themselves, they wouldn't need d Thaksin.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Pimay1]

Most of us know this will not happen. Even as appealing as it maybe.

What shocks me is how many right wingers are actually terrified by this prospect.

Who's terrified of this happening? Most people just think it's stupid.

If it happened, it couldn't happen without a major civil war, and THAT is terrifying. I don't see a scenario where a radical Northern minority says, yes we want to do this, and the rest of the country says, sure thing OK!

It wouldn't be a minority.

A lot of old white guys seem to have problems with defining democracy and counting votes.

Most of the voters are poor and live in East and North Thailand.

That's why the yellow shirts never win elections.

Until the yellow coup leaders can find a way to remove the poor from the voting list, they can't win.

When the yellow elite do decide on a way to stop poor people voting, then they will have a civil war.

Bit of a dilemma really!

With all due respect you keep carrying on about democracy and voting. Would you be so kind as to give us your definition of democracy in a hundred words or less (to save space in the post). I am not baiting, I would really like to know.

[Jingthing]

Time to get on the ground floor and register domain names?

Thaksinlandvisa.com?

Those northern "Pegot" expat red fans, you do realize if this happens you will instantly become ILLEGAL ALIENS?

[monkeycountry]

Hmmm.landlocked country with hostile neighbour controlling all the trade and transport links. Yep, that'll work.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It would not be land locked, would control much of the raw product Bangkok needs to function water, labor, electrical power, rice etc.

You must have not understood what was stated, if Bangkok wanted an "appointed dictatorship", which most of democratic Thailand will not agree to!

Cheers

Kimoman, you simply confirm why people from bangkok call the northerners stupid. Did you not learn anything at all from the rice scam. Thaksin thought he could manipulate market prices by storing up rice. Now tell me, how is that going?

You cannot control the price of a commodity that anyone is able to supply.

The products you mention such as cheap labour, rice and electricity can be supplied by anyone from anywhere, so no, the north does not control any of that. Yes, they are currently supplying it, but the day they stop or raise the price, Thailands neighbours are more than eager to step in, as the rice scheme has so clearly shown.

As for water, unless you plan to block the rivers, I am not sure how the north controls that. And if you do indeed plan to block them, I suggest you prepare for some serious flooding.

What worries me the most is that many northerners likely "think" like you :-)

Edited March 2, 2014 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

"He said there were three factors behind the idea of setting up a "Republic of Lanna". Firstly, people in the North were looked down upon by others, with the PDRC often referring to red shirts as "red water buffaloes". Secondly, the opposing group did not respect the law and there were double standards in the judicial system. The third reason, he said, was the undemocratic aspirations of the PDRC.

Looking down on red shirts as 'red-water buffaloes' was a severe form of discrimination against human dignity, Petchawat noted."

This has been repeated to death over and over by Abhisit and later Suthep.

Touch any Thai on his head and let' see how you will end.

The same goes for the name calling "buffalo".

If this people are "dumb" and "can not vote". educate them instead of barring them of a basic constitutional right.

And the idea of an independent "Lanna" state goes further as Chiang Mai.

Most of Issaan are for pro for that idea.

If the idea of an Lanna country would come trough, Bangkok would be nothing more than a piece of land sinking fast in the sea.

Finally, as another poster in this thread stated, Thaksin is one of the richest people in the world.

The farmers in Issaan knows that and Thaksin has been helping the Issaan people for many years.

He would be welcomed back in Issaan and help the Issaan community and economic.

Not what Suthep did with his rally,

Rant on as much as you want, it is a fact that the idea of segregation will be the only way out for the Bangkokian hate culture.

Yes independent Lanna and Isaan are popular ideas because those proposing the ideas forgot to tell anyone who is financing everything up there. I bet the idea would be alot less popular if those people realised that it is actually not Thaksin, but the tax payers in Bangkok and the south who is paying for their schools, hospitals, roads and rice, and that independence might, or at least should, stop the money flow.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money - Margaret Thatcher

[madmac1]

Now this will really get things going - People's Democratic Republic of Lanna.

Definition of republic - noun: republic; plural noun: republics

1. 1.

   a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

   THIS MEANS NO ROYAL FAMILY NO KINGDOM OF THAILAND.

   Petchawat Wattanapongsirikul said the PDRL would just be a separate political system for the North, split from Bangkok, and not an independent state.

   lets see how that works - Chiang Mai capitol and land of casinos??????

[patjem]

If thaksin comes back he will find all of you tv fourm members and put you in re-education camps. So be careful what you say about his wife, and dont blow any whistles at her, because she loses face.

It will be hard to do that from a coffin. If he comes back, I doubt he'd be around for very long.

[Davidhere]

That was reading quite feasibly until the "one of the richest men in the world".

He doesn't even figure in the top of thailand. He's very rich, but he isn't one of the richest in the world.

Regarding his wealth in comparison to his countrymen, there's lots of evidence to the contrary to your inaccurate statement. Not that anyone can truly know what his real worth is due to dubious holdings in shady African diamond, gold, and platinum mines as well as other investments in other people's names, such as his children's billionaire status on the SET (as if they are the true owners of the stock ). Even on a conservative estimate, we have...

Thaksin remains one of that nations richest. Forbes conservatively estimated his familys holdings at $600 million this summer

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

[Thai at Heart]

"He said there were three factors behind the idea of setting up a "Republic of Lanna". Firstly, people in the North were looked down upon by others, with the PDRC often referring to red shirts as "red water buffaloes". Secondly, the opposing group did not respect the law and there were double standards in the judicial system. The third reason, he said, was the undemocratic aspirations of the PDRC.

Looking down on red shirts as 'red-water buffaloes' was a severe form of discrimination against human dignity, Petchawat noted."

This has been repeated to death over and over by Abhisit and later Suthep.

Touch any Thai on his head and let' see how you will end.

The same goes for the name calling "buffalo".

If this people are "dumb" and "can not vote". educate them instead of barring them of a basic constitutional right.

And the idea of an independent "Lanna" state goes further as Chiang Mai.

Most of Issaan are for pro for that idea.

If the idea of an Lanna country would come trough, Bangkok would be nothing more than a piece of land sinking fast in the sea.

Finally, as another poster in this thread stated, Thaksin is one of the richest people in the world.

The farmers in Issaan knows that and Thaksin has been helping the Issaan people for many years.

He would be welcomed back in Issaan and help the Issaan community and economic.

Not what Suthep did with his rally,

Rant on as much as you want, it is a fact that the idea of segregation will be the only way out for the Bangkokian hate culture.

Yes independent Lanna and Isaan are popular ideas because those proposing the ideas forgot to tell anyone who is financing everything up there. I bet the idea would be alot less popular if those people realised that it is actually not Thaksin, but the tax payers in Bangkok and the south who is paying for their schools, hospitals, roads and rice, and that independence might, or at least should, stop the money flow.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money - Margaret Thatcher

There is one figure I want to find which is the relative value of where revenue is generated in Thailand versus where it is spent.

I saw an article in chinagmai from the mayor about how chiangmai receives about 50% of the value of the generated revenue back fro. Central govt.

Vat all flows to bangkok. Profit for nationwide companies such as 711, and shopping centres and most hotels flows to bangkok.

Rayong should he awash with cash from all the oil companies much like texas. Nothing of the sort. I suggest that Rayong is subsiding the whole country.

Bangkok is shown to be disproportionately wealthy because every provincial.company of a size pays all its tax and does all its invoicing in Bangkok. Local regional entitities should be allows to levy a tax and it he discounted against national income tax.

A bit like a split between federal and state taxes in the USA. This would give the provinces some autonomy and independence from Bangkok.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

That was reading quite feasibly until the "one of the richest men in the world".

He doesn't even figure in the top of thailand. He's very rich, but he isn't one of the richest in the world.

Regarding his wealth in comparison to his countrymen, there's lots of evidence to the contrary to your inaccurate statement. Not that anyone can truly know what his real worth is due to dubious holdings in shady African diamond, gold, and platinum mines as well as other investments in other people's names, such as his children's billionaire status on the SET (as if they are the true owners of the stock ). Even on a conservative estimate, we have...

Thaksin remains one of that nations richest. Forbes conservatively estimated his familys holdings at $600 million this summer

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

Compare him with cp man or red bull etc.

He is not top table in South East Asia and Hong Kong. And as for the biggest wealth holder in Thailand. Well.

[monkeycountry]

democratic? are they going to put it to the vote or just tell everyone what they want, 80% want it, more like the reds want it so everyone else has to agree or they will be bombed/shot. These people are idiots and anyone supporting them are just as bad, if you want that sort of democracy go live in north korea, you will love the friendly democratic govt there.

From someone who has actually spent time in small villages deep in the North. People's loyalty to the reds is real, but I never saw any hint of violence against the (very few) yellow supporters. On the contrary, they were kind of just ostracised / given the "village idiot" treatment.

And yes, of course decentralisation would need to be put to a vote. But looking at how people there have consistently voted (most recently Yaowapa's by-election victory) I don't think that should be too hard.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

will they also be voting to no longer pay taxes to Bangkok and get funding from Bangkok? Somehow I doubt Yaowapa and the other leaders up there want that to be part of the vote. Afterall even Yaowapa is smart enough to know that it is better to be partially in control of some money than it is to be in full control of no money.

[Davidhere]

Petchawat said people who prefer dictatorship can move from the northern region to other parts of Thailand......therefore we advise foreigner to wear a red armband to show their sympanty or back up and move out

More Red irony is that he is Adviser to the Human Development and Security Minister in Prime Minister Yingluck's Cabinet.

.

[wolf5370]

democratic republic of taksin shinawatra buffaloes? The reality is nothing is made up there and everything would need to be imported from Thailand, including rice. Then they would become a land locked poor country like Laos. It would be economic suicide. Also all the people around Chiang Mai are from different ethnic groups and are not one people, so its not true you could have a united Lanna kingdom. idiotic thinking?

I have seen numerous rice fields in the north, no need to buy from Bangkok. I think they could survive on their own. It won't happen tho and it shouldn't happen. What next the people in the south set up their own little state? The Hi So's of Bangkok would be cut off and would have to actually set up their own rice fields in the city and work them.

As they control most of the GDP of the country, and rice is cheaper and better from neighbouring countries and Vietnam, I doubt that will worry them too much. Most fruit and nuts also grow in the South as does rubber. The oil fields are off coast in the south too. Labour would not be an issue as most would stay in their employ - or are easily and cheaply replaced with Burmese and Cambodians and by this time next year, the rest of the ASEAN (which Lana would not be a member of as a break-away state, unless they applied and the other countries allowed their membership). If they did join the ASEAN they would have to comply with free trade anyway, so again no issue. The North could likely survive alone, but it would not kill of the south!

Either way, it would make for a poorer society in all ways, and for both sides.

As to 80% - does anyone know anyone up here (I'm in CM) that has eve been asked their opinion? I don't. No one in my household, or relatives, all up here in the north.

[smovi57]

Thais would not be looking to split the country in two, if there vote was to count!

Relegating the poor to a substandard education.

The yellow shirts have never wanted a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don't want educated well informed voters.

They want workers.

Until you change the education system here, its going to be ground hog day for a very long time to come.

Meanwhile the yellow shirts have got what they wished for.

An uneducated people to control.

They just didn't bank on it being a red shirt controlling them.

How have the Thaksin proxy parties improved education in the 10 or so years they've been in power since 2001?

Of course they bought everyone an I-pad didn't they ?

They promised i pads before the election, but only a few of them got cheap androids worth about 2000 baht each.

[Davidhere]

That was reading quite feasibly until the "one of the richest men in the world".

He doesn't even figure in the top of thailand. He's very rich, but he isn't one of the richest in the world.

Regarding his wealth in comparison to his countrymen, there's lots of evidence to the contrary to your inaccurate statement. Not that anyone can truly know what his real worth is due to dubious holdings in shady African diamond, gold, and platinum mines as well as other investments in other people's names, such as his children's billionaire status on the SET (as if they are the true owners of the stock ). Even on a conservative estimate, we have...

Thaksin remains one of that nations richest. Forbes conservatively estimated his familys holdings at $600 million this summer

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

Compare him with cp man or red bull etc.

He is not top table in South East Asia and Hong Kong. And as for the biggest wealth holder in Thailand. Well.

You overlook the complete off the radar status of his money. His hidden wealth, his multiple proxies, , etc. account for undeclared billions that CP and Red Bull don't have the luxury to keep away from prying eyes with legitimate businesses. Lord only knows how much he's raped the Thai Treasury since Yingluck has been PM, however the billions and billions missing from rice scheme can give an indication.

Not sure why you change the scope to SE Asia or Hong Kong, but he could very easily be the richest person in Thailand. To say he's not even near the top tier of the wealthy in Thailand is extremely naive and inaccurate.

.