Buying my mates house

[ttthailand]

The people here saying it is not a problem are the ones who already own and are looking to sell now or in the future or people who make a living selling houses.

If you buy and later rent it out it will take 15 years or more to get your money back in most cases. Look at the rental prices of houses and the return on your investment and see if it makes sense. I now rent a place they want to sell for 4million and I pay 15k a month. It just don't make sense to buy now... If prices drop by 30 to 50% perhaps it is time to start thinking about it, prices now are toooooo high. Now it is better to rent.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[canman]

Lot's of ggod reasons for both sides of the arguement here.

It is not legal for a non Thai to own land whether through a company structure or not. That being said 1000's do it and i dont know of anyone who has been procecuted. That could change in a heartbeat, it's all a calculated risk.

For me it was a no brainer, I had a generous housing allowance and would rather have put that towards something I could 'sort of own' then give it to someone else. I ended up getting half the house paid for then left Thailand. Rent is paying off the rest.

[xylophone]

The nay sayers always jump in to these threads with their gloom and doom posts that the sky is falling and the Thai bogey man is getting ready to strike and take over you house

Unless you want to piss away a large amount of money there is no reason whatsoever to establish a new company. That is the beauty of the system that the TV warriors here don't like to accept. You buy the company and your lawyer will verify that the company has paid the requisite taxes and fees and is current. These companies do nothing except hold the property. They don't generate real income, enter into contracts with other companies, or perform any functions that could lead to liabilities

What you will be saddled with is the approximately 14-15,000 THB cost of the annual audit and filing for the company and possibly higher water bills depending upon where you are located. And if you should want to close the company later on that will cost you in the neighborhood of 25-50,000 THB depending on your lawyer

If I were the seller and you wanted to establish a new company I would increase the asking price to help me pay for closing down the company that you don't want

Well said well presented most of these ops who speak of gloom and doom I would suggest do not even own a property and never will due to the lack of funding what I would suggest is before taking the plunge live in the Kingdom for a number of years before buying a property

I bought two houses, both of which I did extensive work on, and lived in one for around four years, before selling, and I made a profit on each. They were purchased via a perfectly legitimate/legal route (not the company facade).

Would I do it again? Not in a million years. Why?, well because now, where I am at least, there is a glut of property for sale, and yet even more is being built, and I know of at least four houses in the same street as mine which have been for sale for over five years. In fact, if I wanted to, I could buy back my old house for approximately 1.5 million less than I sold it for!

I did EXTENSIVE marketing on my houses, ranging from handing out flyers in the local shopping mall, to pinning photographs in bars and even the toilet of a popular go-go bar!! It was hard graft but I sold them, however would never want to go through the same exercise again.

For me and many others I would suspect, renting is a great way to go because you can move out at a moment's notice; you don't have to tie up valuable capital; if you need to leave the country, you can knowing full well that you won't have to leave behind an unsaleable property with your money invested in it, probably going nowhere, and the freedom it gives you to do what you want to do, when you want to do it, is priceless.

[BEDBANDIT]

thanks for all the info guys

yes i read http://www.samuifors...er-of-land.html....interesting

the story ...

my mates not lived in the house for 2/3 years ...i think hes undervalued the house, with a bit of work i think i could sell it later and make a very tidy profit

the house is in a great location i think . its on a small main road and has the potential to be a shop house, People on the soi have extended the front and made a shop

i work in construction back home, so i know a bit about houses.

[BEDBANDIT]

reading http://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/nominee-structured-companies-and-transfer-of-land.html

Even if the foreigner is removed from the updated shareholder list but appears on the Memorandum of Association the land official must investigate the Thai shareholders and all Thai shareholders must present themself at the land department at the time of transfer. A company with a foreigner's name on the company formation documents or shareholder's list will be investigated by the Land Department prior to the transfer

will my friend have to get his thai shareholders together.? i could see that being a problem.

[Suradit69]

Your "friend" has discovered that those 51/49 % deals do not hold water in a Thai-Court of law. Crackdown by Thai-Authorities on the increase.

Tell your friend to go "suck a lemon" and buy yourself a lavish condominium for the same money IN YOUR NAME.

Cheers.

Why would anybody want to buy a flat . Aplace where there is no community & the construction is the same as was done in the UK in the 70s .Filthy urine smelling holes

"...the same as was done in the UK... Filthy urine smelling holes"

Charming.You can take to boy out of the UK, but not the UK out of the boy.

Some "high rise" residential buildings aren't occupied by incontinent nanny-state layabouts ... at least outside of UK. And putting such miscreants into a house doesn't magically transform them into civic-minded responsible members of some "community," especially if their eyes light up at the mention of Karaoke or the sound of firecrackers.

In the building where I own a condo everyone has managed to take care of the needful in the appropriate facilities and, as far as I know, flush thereafter.

[belg]

next month/year same OP will come here to cry he has been cheated by a dear friend when he loses everything in the next big crackdown on illegal owned houses/companies/cars/mia nois

[DLP]

reading http://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/nominee-structured-companies-and-transfer-of-land.html

Even if the foreigner is removed from the updated shareholder list but appears on the Memorandum of Association the land official must investigate the Thai shareholders and all Thai shareholders must present themself at the land department at the time of transfer. A company with a foreigner's name on the company formation documents or shareholder's list will be investigated by the Land Department prior to the transfer

will my friend have to get his thai shareholders together.? i could see that being a problem.

The company name is already on the land deed, just get a lawyer to transfer the 49%into your name on the company papers.

I did this & you dont have to even go to the land registry office.

[mjd]

so if you own shares in a company,,and are a director what is the work permit situation

[DLP]

so if you own shares in a company,,and are a director what is the work permit situation

Being a director of a company dosen't mean you are working.

[khunPer]

Who are the 51 percent majority shareholders, who own and control the company?

Many sells land & house by selling a company. You will need to have a lawyer or an accountant to register the transfer of shares and director, and you shall receive a certified print of the new company registration. Check if you are going to have any preferred shares, giving you a better control over majority of votes – preferred shares are used in Thailand and recommended by some lawyers, but may not be legal in all cases, as they makes a foreigner controlling a company. Who are the other 2 to 5 shareholders? Have they signed a proxy so you can vote for them? Have they signed a blank transfer sheet, so you can move their shares to other people?

May be advisable to have Thai wife or GF – or other trusted Thai, a minor child can be shareholder – to hold some of the shares, minimum 2 percent, so you and trusted shareholders controls the company. You may not be able to move more, than the person in question would be able to buy from own earnings and savings; but check with a lawyer, probably you can do more when it’s a wife or child.

Best if the company have some additional activity and income, than just the plot of land/house. It’s mainly the larger operations like project the authorities look at, but things may change. Also check if the company perform an overhead and pays company tax – advisable always to have an annual statement with a small profit and pay some few thousand bath in tax.

The suggestion of opening a new company and sell/transfer the land solves all back problems with an old company. However, you may have a hassle to find the 51% Thai shareholders, who shall be able to invest for their own funds; expect that to be checked. There will also be some (minor) costs for opening a new company.

Selling or transferring the land from an old company to a new results in, that the owners name on the Chanute deed has to changed at the Land Office and tax and transfer fee need to be paid of actual sales value or the value stated by the Land Office (varies at different branches). Furthermore the old company will have an income from the sale and may be taxable of a profit. Thereafter the old company has to be closed, which involves additional costs for the seller.

An experienced lawyers advice may be recommendable, so you choose the best available option.

EDIT: Shall mention, that you need to recieve a folder – normally a binder – with certified prints of all company registrations, including a list with the opening shareholders. Normally there shall be an English translation page opposite the official Thai documents. Check you have the tax number receipt there. I shall also mention, that to my knowledge offshore payment for house & land or company transfer are often used.

Edited March 7, 2014 by khunPer

[Donnie Brasco]

<deleted> ?

Edited March 7, 2014 by Donnie Brasco

[Donnie Brasco]

Who are the 51 percent majority shareholders, who own and control the company?

Many sells land & house by selling a company. You will need to have a lawyer or an accountant to register the transfer of shares and director, and you shall receive a certified print of the new company registration. Check if you are going to have any preferred shares, giving you a better control over majority of votes – preferred shares are used in Thailand and recommended by some lawyers, but may not be legal in all cases, as they makes a foreigner controlling a company. Who are the other 2 to 5 shareholders? Have they signed a proxy so you can vote for them? Have they signed a blank transfer sheet, so you can move their shares to other people?

May be advisable to have Thai wife or GF – or other trusted Thai, a minor child can be shareholder – to hold some of the shares, minimum 2 percent, so you and trusted shareholders controls the company. You may not be able to move more, than the person in question would be able to buy from own earnings and savings; but check with a lawyer, probably you can do more when it’s a wife or child.

Best if the company have some additional activity and income, than just the plot of land/house. It’s mainly the larger operations like project the authorities look at, but things may change. Also check if the company perform an overhead and pays company tax – advisable always to have an annual statement with a small profit and pay some few thousand bath in tax.

The suggestion of opening a new company and sell/transfer the land solves all back problems with an old company. However, you may have a hassle to find the 51% Thai shareholders, who shall be able to invest for their own funds; expect that to be checked. There will also be some (minor) costs for opening a new company.

Selling or transferring the land from an old company to a new results in, that the owners name on the Chanute deed has to changed at the Land Office and tax and transfer fee need to be paid of actual sales value or the value stated by the Land Office (varies at different branches). Furthermore the old company will have an income from the sale and may be taxable of a profit. Thereafter the old company has to be closed, which involves additional costs for the seller.

An experienced lawyers advice may be recommendable, so you choose the best available option.

EDIT: Shall mention, that you need to recieve a folder – normally a binder – with certified prints of all company registrations, including a list with the opening shareholders. Normally there shall be an English translation page opposite the official Thai documents. Check you have the tax number receipt there. I shall also mention, that to my knowledge offshore payment for house & land or company transfer are often used.

Res ipse loquitur, (ok, mai ;-?)

Lubv

Donnie

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

[FiftyTwo]

The nay sayers always jump in to these threads with their gloom and doom posts that the sky is falling and the Thai bogey man is getting ready to strike and take over you house

Unless you want to piss away a large amount of money there is no reason whatsoever to establish a new company. That is the beauty of the system that the TV warriors here don't like to accept. You buy the company and your lawyer will verify that the company has paid the requisite taxes and fees and is current. These companies do nothing except hold the property. They don't generate real income, enter into contracts with other companies, or perform any functions that could lead to liabilities

What you will be saddled with is the approximately 14-15,000 THB cost of the annual audit and filing for the company and possibly higher water bills depending upon where you are located. And if you should want to close the company later on that will cost you in the neighborhood of 25-50,000 THB depending on your lawyer

If I were the seller and you wanted to establish a new company I would increase the asking price to help me pay for closing down the company that you don't want

20-25k to set up a new company, compared to a potential loss of 2-4M.

Buying from a foreigner friend is always problematic, you don't want to hurt their feelings, spoil your friendship, etc.

Buying from a Thai stranger, you can be much more diligent.

PS.

Due diligence in Thailand, I wouldn't even know where to start, a country where all the officials are corrupt, the solicitors are corrupt and incompetent and warning you someone is a crook is a criminal offense.

[FiftyTwo]

Well said well presented most of these ops who speak of gloom and doom I would suggest do not even own a property and never will due to the lack of funding what I would suggest is before taking the plunge live in the Kingdom for a number of years before buying a property

Many of us aren't crooks, trying to bypass the laws of the land.

[steve73]

The nay sayers always jump in to these threads with their gloom and doom posts that the sky is falling and the Thai bogey man is getting ready to strike and take over you house

Unless you want to piss away a large amount of money there is no reason whatsoever to establish a new company. That is the beauty of the system that the TV warriors here don't like to accept. You buy the company and your lawyer will verify that the company has paid the requisite taxes and fees and is current. These companies do nothing except hold the property. They don't generate real income, enter into contracts with other companies, or perform any functions that could lead to liabilities

What you will be saddled with is the approximately 14-15,000 THB cost of the annual audit and filing for the company and possibly higher water bills depending upon where you are located. And if you should want to close the company later on that will cost you in the neighborhood of 25-50,000 THB depending on your lawyer

If I were the seller and you wanted to establish a new company I would increase the asking price to help me pay for closing down the company that you don't want

I agree with most of this however there is a suggestion that setting up a company purely to own property and not trade is on the cusp of being illegal.

It has been suggested that a way round this is for the company to rent the property to you (in effect paying yourself rent) and show this a trade on which you maybe required to pay a small amount of tax.

My 5 bahts worth!

I'm surprised nobody has commented further on this option to rent it to yourself....

And to take it a little further could you (the farang) lend the money to the company with which to buy the company (house) in the first place. As mortgage provider you have ultimate control/security, and any rental paid to the company would be offset by the interest payment on the loan, so minimising any tax required...yet still allowing the company to be classed as a "trading" co rather than just a property holding co.

[KittenKong]

Seriously some of you guys are just incredible . There are thousands of foreigners who own ( sort of speak ) houses.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in Thailand who take illegal drugs daily. Is that a good reason to do the same?

Apples and oranges

Maybe so. But a kilo of both weighs exactly the same.

[KittenKong]

Seriously some of you guys are just incredible . There are thousands of foreigners who own ( sort of speak ) houses.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in Thailand who take illegal drugs daily. Is that a good reason to do the same?

Apples and oranges

Maybe so. But a kilo of both weighs exactly the same.

[whoisyourdaddy]

Seriously some of you guys are just incredible . There are thousands of foreigners who own ( sort of speak ) houses.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in Thailand who take illegal drugs daily. Is that a good reason to do the same?

Apples and oranges

Maybe so. But a kilo of both weighs exactly the same.

Heard of any foreigner who owned house through a company going to jail? or being arrested? or loosing the property? because of the set up

[BlackJack]

looks like someone got modded before I answered

I do not know of any farang that has been dragged into court for this share holder business when buying a house and land or a condo on the Thai ratio side

The flag goes up to the DSI when one of the proxy holders name appear to many times at the DBD

The reason is that the proxy has no money to support their % - as their bank accounts prove

If they have the money then no problems

[xylophone]

Seriously some of you guys are just incredible . There are thousands of foreigners who own ( sort of speak ) houses.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in Thailand who take illegal drugs daily. Is that a good reason to do the same?

Apples and oranges

Maybe so. But a kilo of both weighs exactly the same.

"Heard of any foreigner who owned house through a company going to jail? or being arrested? or loosing the property? because of the set up"

No, but the laws were changed a few years ago in order to put the squeeze on this practice. In effect, now the Thai partners/directors have to show that they put up the money in order to become directors of this "company" by providing details of from whence the money came, and where it went.

This puts the onus upon the Thai partners and as many had commented at the time, was probably the thin end of the wedge, because the Thai partners put up absolutely nothing as it is a sham set up.

And anyway, why would you even want to risk doing something illegal in a foreign country, where you could lose all of your money at the drop of a hat.

[whoisyourdaddy]

looks like someone got modded before I answered

I do not know of any farang that has been dragged into court for this share holder business when buying a house and land or a condo on the Thai ratio side

The flag goes up to the DSI when one of the proxy holders name appear to many times at the DBD

The reason is that the proxy has no money to support their % - as their bank accounts prove

If they have the money then no problems

The only time flag will be "raised" by DSI is when someone contacts them, and even then it's a lot of work for very little benefit.

Of course government is aware of this loophole, but it suits everyone , because everyone makes money.

Company must still pay some fees even if it's only holding the house, then the land tax etc

So everybody is a winner and land still stays in Thailand

[BlackJack]

looks like someone got modded before I answered

I do not know of any farang that has been dragged into court for this share holder business when buying a house and land or a condo on the Thai ratio side

The flag goes up to the DSI when one of the proxy holders name appear to many times at the DBD

The reason is that the proxy has no money to support their % - as their bank accounts prove

If they have the money then no problems

The only time flag will be "raised" by DSI is when someone contacts them, and even then it's a lot of work for very little benefit.

Of course government is aware of this loophole, but it suits everyone , because everyone makes money.

Company must still pay some fees even if it's only holding the house, then the land tax etc

So everybody is a winner and land still stays in Thailand

your wrong

dont ask me why until you read the rules of posting on the thaivisa forum

[rubik101]

This explains it pretty well, and yes, it is illegal. http://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/nominee-structured-companies-and-transfer-of-land.html

[Langsuan Man]

This explains it pretty well, and yes, it is illegal. http://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/nominee-structured-companies-and-transfer-of-land.html

I'll see your samui for sale url and raise you a Thai Visa ask the lawyer one:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/714776-set-up-new-company-so-can-own-land-here/