Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[JetsetBkk]

So watch the press conference in the link I gave and you may understand. But you probably won't.

There went 33 minutes of my life on a week old press conference...... In regards to this incident,

Malaysian Airlines has not been entirely forthcoming to say the least. So pardon me if I do not

hang onto every word.... :-) If these pings had any accuracy at all, and they were receiving

them every hour, it would seem to be easy enough to create a track by plotting the points, and

then using the fuel endurance to create an endpoint. And then find the wreckage. And yet....

nothing. Unless......the pilot, after killing everyone on board, was practicing making wild turns

over the Indian Ocean, and thus not allowing a straight line track to be made....

I'm glad you watched it. Interesting, wasn't it.

So thanks to Inmarsat and the UK AAIB, the search area has been reduced to a mere 469,000 square nautical miles.

So how long will it take to search it?

Here's a few assumptions:

a search plane flies at 200 nautical mph: keep all the units as "nautical"

one plane can fly over the area for 2 hours: 4 hours there, 4 back and 2 searching

one plane can look 1/2 a nautical mile out each side

So that's 400 square nautical miles per plane per day.

10 planes? That makes 4,000 out of 469,000 sq nautical miles.

So how long do you think it will take?

And still people are saying "but they haven't found anything yet" as if this was a Hollywood movie and Ethan Hunt in Mission Impossible 6 will save the day in 90 minutes flat.

This is the real world.

Live with it.

[Asiantravel]

General McInerneys comments are the most intriguing thing I've heard so far.

A guy with his credentials doesn't go on TV and blabber nonsense.

He is convinced the plane landed somewhere.

His speculation came early in the process and has been discredited since. Have we heard anything from him since the satellite tracking analysis was performed. Has he come out and sai the current data and analysis tracking plane to Indian Ocean off of Perth is suspect?

There are so many intelligence resources in the Pakistan region that a 777 could never make it to Pakistan undetected. Utter impossibility I have been told by people who actually work in this field

The good general's early speculation is apparently only being perpetuated by nutt bag conspiracy sites and not the general himself. That should speak volumes, but I suppose the nutty type will believe that the generals's current silence is not voluntary.

Oh, so when I watched Lt Gen Thomas G. McInerney being interviewed by Sean Hannity just last Friday, was that sock puppet I was watching?

And I would think that a person who has the General's credentials and background that he would also have been told otherwise " by people who actually work in this field "

And when you refer to “The good general's early speculation” this telephone interview below was just from March 22 and he hasn't come out and retracted any of this? So you're talking through your hat yet again.

Do you lack reading comprehension skills or do you just leave out important words to be obstinate and argumentative?

I said utter impossibility for the place to arrive in Pakistan "UNDETECTED." The good general has been all over the place on this point from US knows and is a cover up, Pakistan knows and is a cover up (would require NON-Taliban Pakistan cover up here though . . .) to saying he had a Boeing sources, then backing off and saying he did not have a Boeing source but he read about a Boeing source on the Internet website Lignet and on and on and on.

Actually, quiet sad to listen to the poor guy . . . Age can be rough. He is nothing but I believe, I believe, I don't know why, I don't have that answer. He basically knows nothing but some alleged Boeing source he read about on the Internet!!!

Your video snippet left out portions of the general's March 22 interview that was not so flattering or persuasive. See below for that an article about the possibility of arriving undetected.

---------------

Hannity obviously thinks poor guys is off his rocker and takes it easy on him here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk975w70C1U

Note, he still does not address the satellite data that tracked the plane toward Perth . . .

---------------

Article addressing undetection issues based more on fact then unknown Boeing source he read about on the net.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/world/asia/experts-see-robust-radar-along-missing-jets-potential-path.html?referrer=

But you are the one who said in your earlier post that some people are so “ closed minded “

In the absence of any conclusive evidence to the contrary you have no grounds to be so disrespectful to this distinguished military man as you have been in several of your posts where you have repeatedly referred to those that don't dismiss him as being nutty.

I would say unhesitatingly he has no less credibility than your wife, your brother, uncle Tom Cobleigh and all that you repeatedly quote in various posts as being your sources of reference

[EyesWideOpen]

So watch the press conference in the link I gave and you may understand. But you probably won't.

There went 33 minutes of my life on a week old press conference...... In regards to this incident,

Malaysian Airlines has not been entirely forthcoming to say the least. So pardon me if I do not

hang onto every word.... :-) If these pings had any accuracy at all, and they were receiving

them every hour, it would seem to be easy enough to create a track by plotting the points, and

then using the fuel endurance to create an endpoint. And then find the wreckage. And yet....

nothing. Unless......the pilot, after killing everyone on board, was practicing making wild turns

over the Indian Ocean, and thus not allowing a straight line track to be made....

I'm glad you watched it. Interesting, wasn't it.

So thanks to Inmarsat and the UK AAIB, the search area has been reduced to a mere 469,000 square nautical miles.

So how long will it take to search it?

Here's a few assumptions:

a search plane flies at 200 nautical mph: keep all the units as "nautical"

one plane can fly over the area for 2 hours: 4 hours there, 4 back and 2 searching

one plane can look 1/2 a nautical mile out each side

So that's 400 square nautical miles per plane per day.

10 planes? That makes 4,000 out of 469,000 sq nautical miles.

So how long do you think it will take?

And still people are saying "but they haven't found anything yet" as if this was a Hollywood movie and Ethan Hunt in Mission Impossible 6 will save the day in 90 minutes flat.

This is the real world.

Live with it.

Psssttt......They are using satellites to search the area.

So using your math of 10 planes searching 4,000 sq miles per day, and a search area

of 469,000 miles, that means it will take 117 days to properly search the area. The search

will be called off long long before that. My prediction is two weeks, you will start hearing

the term hopeless used by spokesmen, and the search will be called off.

[Chicog]

You just love predictions don't you? AF447 was <10 miles from miles from where they found surface debris and it took them 20 months to find it.

Sent from my Lenovo S960 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[F430murci]

His speculation came early in the process and has been discredited since. Have we heard anything from him since the satellite tracking analysis was performed. Has he come out and sai the current data and analysis tracking plane to Indian Ocean off of Perth is suspect?

There are so many intelligence resources in the Pakistan region that a 777 could never make it to Pakistan undetected. Utter impossibility I have been told by people who actually work in this field

The good general's early speculation is apparently only being perpetuated by nutt bag conspiracy sites and not the general himself. That should speak volumes, but I suppose the nutty type will believe that the generals's current silence is not voluntary.

Oh, so when I watched Lt Gen Thomas G. McInerney being interviewed by Sean Hannity just last Friday, was that sock puppet I was watching?

And I would think that a person who has the General's credentials and background that he would also have been told otherwise " by people who actually work in this field "

And when you refer to “The good general's early speculation” this telephone interview below was just from March 22 and he hasn't come out and retracted any of this? So you're talking through your hat yet again.

Do you lack reading comprehension skills or do you just leave out important words to be obstinate and argumentative?

I said utter impossibility for the place to arrive in Pakistan "UNDETECTED." The good general has been all over the place on this point from US knows and is a cover up, Pakistan knows and is a cover up (would require NON-Taliban Pakistan cover up here though . . .) to saying he had a Boeing sources, then backing off and saying he did not have a Boeing source but he read about a Boeing source on the Internet website Lignet and on and on and on.

Actually, quiet sad to listen to the poor guy . . . Age can be rough. He is nothing but I believe, I believe, I don't know why, I don't have that answer. He basically knows nothing but some alleged Boeing source he read about on the Internet!!!

Your video snippet left out portions of the general's March 22 interview that was not so flattering or persuasive. See below for that an article about the possibility of arriving undetected.

---------------

Hannity obviously thinks poor guys is off his rocker and takes it easy on him here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk975w70C1U

Note, he still does not address the satellite data that tracked the plane toward Perth . . .

---------------

Article addressing undetection issues based more on fact then unknown Boeing source he read about on the net.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/world/asia/experts-see-robust-radar-along-missing-jets-potential-path.html?referrer=

But you are the one who said in your earlier post that some people are so “ closed minded “

In the absence of any conclusive evidence to the contrary you have no grounds to be so disrespectful to this distinguished military man as you have been in several of your posts where you have repeatedly referred to those that don't dismiss him as being nutty.

I would say unhesitatingly he has no less credibility than your wife, your brother, uncle Tom Cobleigh and all that you repeatedly quote in various posts as being your sources of reference

You are funny . . . you once again attack me when you cannot respond substantively or address intel.

Regardless as to what you think, there would not be this many assets off Perth searching for this plane unless they had pretty good intel. Neither you nor I are probably important enough to be told all of their intel supporting this search effort at this location.

The general admitted that his Boeing source came from something he read off the internet.

You can make funnies all you want about my family, but they speak more sensibly than the general who has recently become a headliner for the conspiracy sites. Uncle was military ATC and commercial ATC from 70s (ulcer during PATCO so not strike and lose job), many family members are pilots and a pilot brother that is currently responsible for the safety of FedEx, UPS and etc freighters flying over seas in sensitive areas and tracks packages sent by people lucky enough to make their special list.

I am sure if I said my brother was an XXX and he says plane is in Pakistan you would be giving me smily faces and likes . . . Its all good, believe what you want. Maybe you and David can have a party and talk about iPhones in anal cavities.

[EyesWideOpen]

You just love predictions don't you? AF447 was <10 miles from miles from where they found surface debris and it took them 20 months to find it.

Sent from my Lenovo S960 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I will wait two weeks before I fully reply... :-) On AF 447 debris was found by the

second day I believe . So with limited current drift, they knew within a pretty

tight circle of where the wreckage had to be. I did not realize it was only

10 kilometers. So here now , with two weeks of very strong current drift,

and high winds, even if they found floating debris they would not really have

a clear idea of where it came from. But at least if they found debris from the

plane, it would give closure to the families, and dispel the theory that the

plane has landed somewhere else.

[hawker9000]

The surest way to shed credibility is probably to start boasting of "insider information" in order to win an argument. 'Will only cause many to immediately turn their attention elsewhere.

[F430murci]

The surest way to shed credibility is probably to start boasting of "insider information" in order to win an argument. 'Will only cause many to immediately turn their attention elsewhere.

Don't care. Don't listen. I am not professing to have any insider info on flight 370. My only point is and has been that there is no way a 777 makes all the way to Northwest Pakistan without being detected and that there would not be this many resources off Perth absent fairly reliable intel. This is a general knowledge issue about flight tracking and ability to avoid detection, not insider info related to 370 in particular.

[davidstipek]

To be honest I think you're drunk and rambling.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't drink.... not at least in the past 20 years... Smoke Kools 100's...yes. Rambling.... not hardly as here in Thailand, as that could get you more then one wife!

here is the phone you so off the cuff think is funny...

This Photo is mine taken with a Kodak 7.2 mega pixel M763 - Small enough to be inserted in a condom......

It is a China Copy (Software) of I-Phone 5s And for you who would like to try... It could be hidden in the crack of your A**! If needed to be hidden in an emergency... Also depends no size of person (6' and wearing XL clothes... quite possibly you might have to eat something....

I am starting to believe that all this downgrading of any reference to anything other then what the Referencer wants everyone to focus on is coming from an outside force... (Almost like they are doing a job something they are getting paid for..)

You guys are the only ones trying to ridicule everything that is a little tainted. Ever stop to think that maybe this "Taint" is being made available as a Leak???? Later it would be said oh now too late I tried to tell someone...

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. --Eleanor Roosevelt

I wonder If Mrs. Roosevelt were alive today I wonder how she would Lable those trying to scoff at everything here... Tainted or not it still has a wiff of being possible!

Just because I post something doesn't reference to my believing... I just believe that the is a shred of Possibility anywhere.

F30muri... You can keep your white coats in your closet.... I'm not in need of your Body Slam Comments no matter how degrading you try to be to discredit somones credentials... Nice try though!

Edited April 2, 2014 by davidstipek

[JetsetBkk]

So, to summarise...

I like the theory by General McInerney about the plane being in Pakistan. It is a pretty close fit to all existing evidence. Initial ping data had a southern arc and a northern arc. For some reason everybody went with the southern arc.<snip>

You've (hopefully) given up on the Pakistan-looney-General nonsense and you know how the southern arc was chosen.

<snip>

If they actually could come up with a reasonable location by pings, given the staggering amount of effort in the search, they would have found something by now. As of today, they have found..........wait for it.........nothing.

<snip>

You now know how the ping-doppler effect calculations narrowed to search area to just 469,000 square nautical miles, and realise that the "staggering" amount of effort isn't staggering at all.

<snip>

If these pings had any accuracy at all, and they were receiving them every hour, it would seem to be easy enough to create a track by plotting the points, and then using the fuel endurance to create an endpoint. And then find the wreckage. And yet.... nothing.

<snip>

OK, so you'd better explain to Inmarsat just how they need to improve their calculations since you think it's so easy.

As for your last comment about satellites, the French one found 122 objects and the Thai one 300 objects, but none of them has been found by the planes or ships sent out to find them.

[davidstipek]

Actually attaching pictures will not work that way...

First you need to have text in this reply box

Then using snipit tool save picture to desktop

Load word and add and save picture again to desktop

Now coming back to this reply window you will have 3 options above:

Paste

Paste Plain Text

Paste from Word

Click paste from Word as when you went to save it to desktop it is actually in your Clipboard...

Thanks Moderator.. This was easier. But it will only work if you have started a conversation here...

[davidstipek]

So, to summarise...

I like the theory by General McInerney about the plane being in Pakistan. It is a pretty close fit to all existing evidence. Initial ping data had a southern arc and a northern arc. For some reason everybody went with the southern arc.<snip>

You've (hopefully) given up on the Pakistan-looney-General nonsense and you know how the southern arc was chosen.

<snip>

If they actually could come up with a reasonable location by pings, given the staggering amount of effort in the search, they would have found something by now. As of today, they have found..........wait for it.........nothing.

<snip>

You now know how the ping-doppler effect calculations narrowed to search area to just 469,000 square nautical miles, and realise that the "staggering" amount of effort isn't staggering at all.

<snip>

If these pings had any accuracy at all, and they were receiving them every hour, it would seem to be easy enough to create a track by plotting the points, and then using the fuel endurance to create an endpoint. And then find the wreckage. And yet.... nothing.

<snip>

OK, so you'd better explain to Inmarsat just how they need to improve their calculations since you think it's so easy.

As for your last comment about satellites, the French one found 122 objects and the Thai one 300 objects, but none of them has been found by the planes or ships sent out to find them.

Did they not find or "Did they not reference any connection to Aircraft.... Maybe they were found... but also not any relation to MH370... Everyone seems to snip out relative clues...... Everyone!

[wooloomooloo]

As for your last comment about satellites, the French one found 122 objects and the Thai one 300 objects, but none of them has been found...

Dust on the lense?

Edited April 2, 2014 by wooloomooloo

[Chicog]

No, just a load of rubbish. In the sea that is

Sent from my Lenovo S960 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[davidstipek]

I like the theory by General McInerney about the plane being in Pakistan. It is a pretty close fit to all existing evidence.

Initial ping data had a southern arc and a northern arc. For some reason everybody went with the southern arc.

<snip>

Maybe the formula they used is 180 degree off?? Could it have been mirrored in storage and show up in data files looking as if southern Arc? Being new way discovered to find

object... are they 200% sure the read result correctly?

Edited April 2, 2014 by davidstipek

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

General McInerneys comments are the most intriguing thing I've heard so far.

A guy with his credentials doesn't go on TV and blabber nonsense.

He is convinced the plane landed somewhere.

But when an astronaut goes on TV and says he has seen aliens and that man never went to the moon it is considered that even as a 'guy with his credentials' he is blabbing nonsense.

<snip>

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. --Eleanor Roosevelt

<snip>

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people: mad minds discuss the possibility of hiding iphones up bottoms. -- Gentleman Jim

I like the theory by General McInerney about the plane being in Pakistan. It is a pretty close fit to all existing evidence.
Initial ping data had a southern arc and a northern arc. For some reason everybody went with the southern arc.
<snip>



Maybe the formula they used is 180 degree off?? Could it have been mirrored in storage and show up in data files looking as if southern Arc? Being new way discovered to find
object... are they 200% sure the read result correctly?

At best they can only be 100% sure they read the result correctly. What exactly is 200% sure?

Talking of exaggeration, referring to your earlier post 3137 i think, you said concerning mangosteens

As husk or skin has a oil sealed skin (Purple - YES) and anywhere from 3 to 5 cm thick husk that will keep it afloat

If you find a mangosteen with a 5cm thick husk I would suggest it is a coconut !

Edited April 2, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[davidstipek]

Interesting question from PPrune:

In this case the flight did not go missing for Malaysian ATC - they had hand ed the flight off to Vietnamese ATC. The Vietnamese did look on primary radar once they determined it was missing from their ATC radar; they saw what could only have been MH370 headed west, back towards the Malaysian landmass - and they reported this to Malaysian authorities (we don't know exactly when or how but they have said that they did do so.)

Interestingly enough, the Malaysian military much later acknowledged tracking a flight on primary radar at about that time and on about that course until it went out of their range somewhere in the Malacca Strait at 2:40 am local time.

A week or ten days later the Thai government piped up and said that their military had also tracked (apparently) this same flight at that time.

The interesting part is that on March 8th, in the first reports of a plane missing, the Malaysian government issued a statement that the last sighting of MH370 was at 2:40 am on the 9th. We know this for a fact!

So we know that the Malaysian government was aware of MH370's filght path out of the South China Sea from the very beginning of this event.

Now, why did the Malaysian government let 8 nations search the South China Sea looking for an airliner they knew wasn't there for the next week??

Can anybody answer that question?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They got it wrong. At that time they still thought it was near its intended course. They eventually revised it back an hour IIRC. It was March 11th when they started looking in the Malacca Strait based on radar analysis.

Okay explain here for the original presenter of this Post...

Who got what wrong???

This was what he or she... asked...

"In this case the flight did not go missing for Malaysian ATC - they had hand ed the flight off to Vietnamese ATC. The Vietnamese did look on primary radar once they determined it was missing from their ATC radar; they saw what could only have been MH370 headed west, back towards the Malaysian landmass - and they reported this to Malaysian authorities (we don't know exactly when or how but they have said that they did do so.)"

This was the Idea that was presented

Your answer doesn't even qualify...

"They got it wrong. At that time they still thought it was near its intended course. They eventually revised it back an hour IIRC. It was March 11th when they started looking in the Malacca Strait based on radar analysis."

[davidstipek]

Members

PipPipPipPip

272 posts

Posted A minute ago

Chicog, on 02 Apr 2014 - 17:37, said:

pmugghc, on 02 Apr 2014 - 16:09, said:

Interesting question from PPrune:

In this case the flight did not go missing for Malaysian ATC - they had hand ed the flight off to Vietnamese ATC. The Vietnamese did look on primary radar once they determined it was missing from their ATC radar; they saw what could only have been MH370 headed west, back towards the Malaysian landmass - and they reported this to Malaysian authorities (we don't know exactly when or how but they have said that they did do so.)

Interestingly enough, the Malaysian military much later acknowledged tracking a flight on primary radar at about that time and on about that course until it went out of their range somewhere in the Malacca Strait at 2:40 am local time.

A week or ten days later the Thai government piped up and said that their military had also tracked (apparently) this same flight at that time.

The interesting part is that on March 8th, in the first reports of a plane missing, the Malaysian government issued a statement that the last sighting of MH370 was at 2:40 am on the 9th. We know this for a fact!

So we know that the Malaysian government was aware of MH370's filght path out of the South China Sea from the very beginning of this event.

Now, why did the Malaysian government let 8 nations search the South China Sea looking for an airliner they knew wasn't there for the next week??

Can anybody answer that question?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They got it wrong. At that time they still thought it was near its intended course. They eventually revised it back an hour IIRC. It was March 11th when they started looking in the Malacca Strait based on radar analysis.

Okay explain here for the original presenter of this Post...

Who got what wrong???

This was what he or she... asked...

"In this case the flight did not go missing for Malaysian ATC - they had hand ed the flight off to Vietnamese ATC. The Vietnamese did look on primary radar once they determined it was missing from their ATC radar; they saw what could only have been MH370 headed west, back towards the Malaysian landmass - and they reported this to Malaysian authorities (we don't know exactly when or how but they have said that they did do so.)"

This was the Idea that was presented

Your answer doesn't even qualify...

"They got it wrong. At that time they still thought it was near its intended course. They eventually revised it back an hour IIRC. It was March 11th when they started looking in the Malacca Strait based on radar analysis."

"In A Time Of Universal Deceit, Telling The Truth Becomes A Revolutionary Act"

- George Orwell, Author .....

"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident"

Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher

Which quote fits.....

I Think... That the issue he is that Maylasia Government doesn't want to believe ANYTHING that did not originate from them.... Then still they might revise it later...

Even Common Knowledge that Vietnam was frustrated with Maylasias Attitude and had withdrawn from the search... But later was asked to rejoin...

[Chicog]

You're reading that crap site with the iPhone up the arse story again aren't you?

Sent from my Lenovo S960 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[davidstipek]

You're reading that crap site with the iPhone up the arse story again aren't you?

Sent from my Lenovo S960 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

NO>>>!

I m just finishing with the posting of a Picture I took last night of a clone of apple I5s... Uses software, clone is from China... Was riddiculed to how you or anyone could possibly stick an I5s up their rectum and not have to go to emergency room. Active Duty Officer here brought me a copy of @ a much small stature that could be hidden this way, and on Good authority it had been... Using protect device to shield it and for its removal.

I will accept any and all appologies here by way of you and everyone else dropping this subject...

Can't figure out here what stage we are in... "Still ridicule...?"

Edited April 2, 2014 by davidstipek

[RubbaJohnny]

No, just a load of rubbish. In the sea that is

Sent from my Lenovo S960 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We in Orchid class refer to such types fromthepaddies as flotsam,often seen with noses pressedt menus at lagans brasserie.I do appreciate your efforts to epitomize the detritus.

As I'm sure your aware "floaters nay be bismarks in UK,served as pies in Adelaide and voters in USA but legally 'pon the briny us jolly jack tars prefer

In maritime law, flotsam, jetsam, lagan and derelict are specific kinds of shipwreck. The words have specific nautical meanings, with legal consequences .

I am myself more of the latter these days.

I hope for the families something turns up soon

While speculation and James Bond plot theories are passtimes for some this will be like the titanic and Tammasat a charnel field.

Like many here I am curious to learn the truth and feel there is something not quite right.

[khaosai]

F30muri... You said...

"I said utter impossibility for the place to arrive in Pakistan "UNDETECTED." The good general has been all over the place on this point from US knows and is a cover up, Pakistan knows and is a cover up (would require NON-Taliban Pakistan cover up here though . . .) to saying he had a Boeing sources, then backing off and saying he did not have a Boeing source but he read about a Boeing source on the Internet website Lignet and on and on and on."

I could also ask you how they cannot Find Plane now... Is it because it flew somewhere... Undetected???

Thought that was utterly Impossible!

Buddy, I am trying real hard to understand what you are saying, but it is much easier to go undetected over very remote parts of the Oceans than it is to go undetected over land. The shadow thing with a 777 is silly movie stuff. I believe flying below radar would have used too much fuel to make it to Northwest Pakistan, caused tremendous stress on the air frame and a 777 flying that low would have been seen by lots of people. Plus, it was dark . . .

Hi,

The shadow idea would be relatively straight forward to achieve. The problem would then be when the aircraft appears out of the shadow.

I don't think this is what happened. It must be somewhere in the rather large area they are searching.

Some big changes will be made in the industry due this missing aircraft.

[Scott]

I have deleted some off-topic posts and replies and I note another moderator has deleted posts which are personal attacks on others.

Most everything we have at this time is a theory, some of the theories, however, are moving too far afield and the intricacies to support those theories are really off-topic.

Please exercise care in what you post and how you say it.

[F430murci]

F30muri... You said...

"I said utter impossibility for the place to arrive in Pakistan "UNDETECTED." The good general has been all over the place on this point from US knows and is a cover up, Pakistan knows and is a cover up (would require NON-Taliban Pakistan cover up here though . . .) to saying he had a Boeing sources, then backing off and saying he did not have a Boeing source but he read about a Boeing source on the Internet website Lignet and on and on and on."

I could also ask you how they cannot Find Plane now... Is it because it flew somewhere... Undetected???

Thought that was utterly Impossible!

Buddy, I am trying real hard to understand what you are saying, but it is much easier to go undetected over very remote parts of the Oceans than it is to go undetected over land. The shadow thing with a 777 is silly movie stuff. I believe flying below radar would have used too much fuel to make it to Northwest Pakistan, caused tremendous stress on the air frame and a 777 flying that low would have been seen by lots of people. Plus, it was dark . . .

Hi,

The shadow idea would be relatively straight forward to achieve. The problem would then be when the aircraft appears out of the shadow.

I don't think this is what happened. It must be somewhere in the rather large area they are searching.

Some big changes will be made in the industry due this missing aircraft.

I respect your opinion and you are certainly more knowledgeable than I. Most pilots with whom I spoke said sounds easy in theory, but not so in application with a 777. The Eglin guys in my building last week did seem a bit more confident about it being possible. Do you have knowledge of this actually being done over long distances with planes of this size?

Edited April 3, 2014 by F430murci

[ExpatOilWorker]

Below is the known track of MH370 from transponder returns up to 17:27 UTC

Therefore we need to invert the Burst Offset Frequency data to get a correct sense of MH370's progress either east or west.

Flight east is a decrease in Doppler frequency offset (reads down).

Flight west is an increase in Doppler frequency offset (reads up).

If we cross correlate Doppler shift with the timeline corroborated by known direction before 17:27 UTC then there is no way on earth it flew west from IGARI.

When the aircraft was at the gate at KUL airport at 16:30, the BFO was 87 Hz, and at that time the LOS speed (due solely to the satellite motion) was about plus 0.021 km/sec. At take-off at 16:41 the BFO increased to about 125 Hz. This therefore gives us a datum line or longitude to measure if the flight went west or east.

What it shows is that until at least 17:50 UTC it continued to fly northeast (over Vietnam or along the east coast) and at some point after 17:50 UTC it must have reversed course not detected until the handshake ping at 18:25 UTC.

The steepness of the plot line after 18:25 UTC might be explained by the fact it had already flown back west some distance before 18:25 UTC giving a misleading graphic representation.

This is an extraordinary snippet of information because it reveals the Malaysian Authorities misled the investigation suggesting MH370 flew into the Straits of Malacca and all previous assumptions therefore are based on wrong inputs by the Malaysians.

This also makes plausible the long discarded sighting of oil rig worker Mike McKay on Song Mercur of an aircraft on fire for 10-15 seconds west of his oil rig.

The most generous thing one could say is the Malaysian Government did not understand how to interpret the Burst Offset Frequency data and UK AAIB who advised them were pretty clueless themselves.

[ExpatOilWorker]

The INMARSAT satellite was geosynchronous and not geostationary, therefore it also wobbles around the equator in a small figure of eight pattern which slightly disturbed the Burst Frequency Offset during the time MH370 was airborne too.

Without this slight wobble there would not have been any ability to measure the Doppler shift at all.

To get a correct scaling of the inverted (corrected) data you actually need to vertically compress the data up to about 19:10 UTC.

At around 19:40 INMARSAT in its wobble began to track south and west @ 50 kilometres per hour which actually tightens the curve of the plotted pings across the southern Indian Ocean.

Might be a good idea to search for the seabed wreck with sonar at 3,000nm distant from Con Son Island in the South China Sea, where it intersects the plotted ping line.

[webfact]

Search for missing Malaysian plane 'most difficult in human history' - Australian PM Abbot

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Thursday that the ongoing search for missing Malaysian flight MH370 is "the most difficult in human history," while reiterating his promise to the families of those on aboard that his country will continue the current search process as best as they can.

In a joint press conference with his visiting Malaysian counterpart, Abbott told reporters this is probably the most difficult search ever undertaken, but "as far as Australia is concerned, we are throwing everything we have" to search the aircraft.

"This is a very tough time for Prime Minister Najib (Razak)... the search area is moving north, but it's still a remote and inaccessible area...it's the most difficult in human history," said the Australian leader.

He also asked the families of those on aboard to be "patient," saying Australia and the multinational forces will not let them down and would provide the warmest possible welcome if they want to come to Australia.

Cause of missing Malaysia plane may never be known - national police chief

The investigation into what happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 may take a long time and may never determine the cause of the tragedy, Malaysia's national police chief warned Wednesday. The assessment by Malaysian and Australian officials underscored the lack of knowledge authorities have about what happened on Flight 370. It also points to a scenario that becomes more likely with every passing day — that the fate of the Boeing 777 and the 239 people on board might remain a mystery forever.

Full story: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_03/Search-for-missing-Malaysian-plane-most-difficult-in-human-history-Australian-PM-Abbot-9822/

-- THE VOICE OF RUSSIA 2014-04-03

[3NUMBAS]

its now fading off the news bulletins and will just become forgotten till they find some evidence at some time in the future ,could be months or years

[khaosai]

F30muri... You said...

"I said utter impossibility for the place to arrive in Pakistan "UNDETECTED." The good general has been all over the place on this point from US knows and is a cover up, Pakistan knows and is a cover up (would require NON-Taliban Pakistan cover up here though . . .) to saying he had a Boeing sources, then backing off and saying he did not have a Boeing source but he read about a Boeing source on the Internet website Lignet and on and on and on."

I could also ask you how they cannot Find Plane now... Is it because it flew somewhere... Undetected???

Thought that was utterly Impossible!

Buddy, I am trying real hard to understand what you are saying, but it is much easier to go undetected over very remote parts of the Oceans than it is to go undetected over land. The shadow thing with a 777 is silly movie stuff. I believe flying below radar would have used too much fuel to make it to Northwest Pakistan, caused tremendous stress on the air frame and a 777 flying that low would have been seen by lots of people. Plus, it was dark . . .

Hi,

The shadow idea would be relatively straight forward to achieve. The problem would then be when the aircraft appears out of the shadow.

I don't think this is what happened. It must be somewhere in the rather large area they are searching.

Some big changes will be made in the industry due this missing aircraft.

I respect your opinion and you are certainly more knowledgeable than I. Most pilots with whom I spoke said sounds easy in theory, but not so in application with a 777. The Eglin guys in my building last week did seem a bit more confident about it being possible. Do you have knowledge of this actually being done over long distances with planes of this size?

Hi,

The aircraft automation would allow this to be flown accurately whilst shadowing another aircraft. The autopilot in conjunction with an appropriate lateral and vertical mode is what goes on in day to day operations, albeit at increased distances vertically.

A few night ago I had another aircraft 2000ft below our aircraft for quite a while. The aircraft was displayed on the traffic collision avoidance system, and on occasion it triggered the radio altimeter on the primary flight display.

So flying along at the same speed on the same route but at a different altitude will enable both aircraft to follow each other accurately.

Has it been done over long distances on an aircraft this size using a reduced vertical seperation. I don't know the answer to that.

[steven100]

Just finished a conference live from Perth airport in Australia with Malaysia's prime minister & Australia's Tony Abbot present.

The black box will stop sending a signal in a couple of days.

The cost of this search has almost run into the Billions $$$

It was mentioned : who will pick up the tab for this search ?? china ? malaysia ?

The search has been going on for three weeks and nothing found has confirmed the actual location.

The plane may never be found. This is looking more certain every day.

What really happen to flight MH370 .. it is almost certain it was a foul play involved. Was the pilot involved ?

We may never know the cause of what actually happen to flight MH370 ...

That's my bet.