Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[NeverSure]

[tigermonkey]

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I'm still befuddled as to why the US, European allies and Canada aren't more involved in this search.

The US didn't need an invitation. It had 4 citizens on board.

The US has a history of jumping in when there's trouble such as in Haiti and the tsunami in Indonesia. Right after the tsunami, the US parked either one or two Nimitz-class aircraft carriers offshore. Those carriers are staffed by more than 5,000 troops, some of whom went ashore to help. Each carrier could put out a line and pump 50,000 gallons of clean drinking water to shore every day, converted from seawater. The ships had a lot of surplus food, full hospitals, lots of medical supplies and helicopters to shuttle goods and people.

They sent a hospital ship.

Now they are almost silent. They aren't pouring assets into the search. Neither are the closest allies.

Someone please tell me why?

Is that plane in a hanger in one of the 'stans or Somalia or elsewhere with it and its passengers being held for ransom with negotiations going on?

Even if the pilot was on a suicide mission to crash it into Diego Garcia and the US shot it down, they would admit it.

Where are the big players who had passengers on board, and why are they silent?

Where is any debris at all, and why not? The seat cushions are closed-cell foam and even of torn would float forever.

If, as I believe, the pilot ditched the aircraft while he still had control there would likely be no rupture of the fuselage and therefore all of the cushions and everything else inside would remain inside as the airplane sunk intact. You still have flight controls even after the engines quit. There were quite a few ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours.

Please tell us about these "ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours". I am not aware of any ditchings of a heavy jet in the open ocean, where the a/c has survived somewhat intact, let alone remained afloat for "many hours". A list of the "many" would be nice, but I will settle for even one which fits your description.

[draftvader]

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I'm still befuddled as to why the US, European allies and Canada aren't more involved in this search.

The US didn't need an invitation. It had 4 citizens on board.

The US has a history of jumping in when there's trouble such as in Haiti and the tsunami in Indonesia. Right after the tsunami, the US parked either one or two Nimitz-class aircraft carriers offshore. Those carriers are staffed by more than 5,000 troops, some of whom went ashore to help. Each carrier could put out a line and pump 50,000 gallons of clean drinking water to shore every day, converted from seawater. The ships had a lot of surplus food, full hospitals, lots of medical supplies and helicopters to shuttle goods and people.

They sent a hospital ship.

Now they are almost silent. They aren't pouring assets into the search. Neither are the closest allies.

Someone please tell me why?

Is that plane in a hanger in one of the 'stans or Somalia or elsewhere with it and its passengers being held for ransom with negotiations going on?

Even if the pilot was on a suicide mission to crash it into Diego Garcia and the US shot it down, they would admit it.

Where are the big players who had passengers on board, and why are they silent?

Where is any debris at all, and why not? The seat cushions are closed-cell foam and even of torn would float forever.

If, as I believe, the pilot ditched the aircraft while he still had control there would likely be no rupture of the fuselage and therefore all of the cushions and everything else inside would remain inside as the airplane sunk intact. You still have flight controls even after the engines quit. There were quite a few ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours.

Please tell us about these "ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours". I am not aware of any ditchings of a heavy jet in the open ocean, where the a/c has survived somewhat intact, let alone remained afloat for "many hours". A list of the "many" would be nice, but I will settle for even one which fits your description.

Wikipedia, but this is fact, which is does better than theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_landing#General_aviation

Got to admit that I find it hard to describe many as "heavy jet" but there are some. It would seem that, logically, flat water (i.e. river, lake or calm ocean) is needed. Not too common in the deep Indian Ocean.

[catterwell]

Where is any debris at all, and why not? The seat cushions are closed-cell foam and even of torn would float forever.

If, as I believe, the pilot ditched the aircraft while he still had control there would likely be no rupture of the fuselage and therefore all of the cushions and everything else inside would remain inside as the airplane sunk intact. You still have flight controls even after the engines quit. There were quite a few ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours.

Wikipedia, but this is fact, which is does better than theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_landing#General_aviation

Got to admit that I find it hard to describe many as "heavy jet" but there are some. It would seem that, logically, flat water (i.e. river, lake or calm ocean) is needed. Not too common in the deep Indian Ocean.

I imagine that modern aircraft and less dense than older ones, so "heavy" just means "big". The bigger the aircraft, the relatively smaller those inconvenient waves.

But I'm no expert, having piloted only Chipmunk's (my favourite), single-engine Cessna's, and an assortment of gliders (including one ancient and monstrously heavy beast). And anyway I've never, intentionally or otherwise, attempted to land (go down?) on water.

[F4UCorsair]

Where is any debris at all, and why not? The seat cushions are closed-cell foam and even of torn would float forever.

If, as I believe, the pilot ditched the aircraft while he still had control there would likely be no rupture of the fuselage and therefore all of the cushions and everything else inside would remain inside as the airplane sunk intact. You still have flight controls even after the engines quit. There were quite a few ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours.

Wikipedia, but this is fact, which is does better than theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_landing#General_aviation

Got to admit that I find it hard to describe many as "heavy jet" but there are some. It would seem that, logically, flat water (i.e. river, lake or calm ocean) is needed. Not too common in the deep Indian Ocean.

I imagine that modern aircraft and less dense than older ones, so "heavy" just means "big". The bigger the aircraft, the relatively smaller those inconvenient waves.

But I'm no expert, having piloted only Chipmunk's (my favourite), single-engine Cessna's, and an assortment of gliders (including one ancient and monstrously heavy beast). And anyway I've never, intentionally or otherwise, attempted to land (go down?) on water.

In aviation terms, a 'heavy' aircraft is broadly a category, in which the MTOW (Maximum Take Off Weight) is 250,000 lbs (if I recall correctly). The term 'heavy' is usually appended to the callsign when talking with Tower Controllers, and perhaps Approach Controllers also on first contact, e.g., Qantas 1 Heavy

A minimum separation is required behind a 'heavy' because of the dangerous nature of the wake turbulence generated. Wikipedia explains quite well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_turbulence

The term 'heavy jet' can refer to almost any jet that isn't in the bizjet category, so even a 737 qualififes.

Edited April 30, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[krisb]

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I'm still befuddled as to why the US, European allies and Canada aren't more involved in this search.

The US didn't need an invitation. It had 4 citizens on board.

The US has a history of jumping in when there's trouble such as in Haiti and the tsunami in Indonesia. Right after the tsunami, the US parked either one or two Nimitz-class aircraft carriers offshore. Those carriers are staffed by more than 5,000 troops, some of whom went ashore to help. Each carrier could put out a line and pump 50,000 gallons of clean drinking water to shore every day, converted from seawater. The ships had a lot of surplus food, full hospitals, lots of medical supplies and helicopters to shuttle goods and people.

They sent a hospital ship.

Now they are almost silent. They aren't pouring assets into the search. Neither are the closest allies.

Someone please tell me why?

Is that plane in a hanger in one of the 'stans or Somalia or elsewhere with it and its passengers being held for ransom with negotiations going on?

Even if the pilot was on a suicide mission to crash it into Diego Garcia and the US shot it down, they would admit it.

Where are the big players who had passengers on board, and why are they silent?

Where is any debris at all, and why not? The seat cushions are closed-cell foam and even of torn would float forever.

If, as I believe, the pilot ditched the aircraft while he still had control there would likely be no rupture of the fuselage and therefore all of the cushions and everything else inside would remain inside as the airplane sunk intact. You still have flight controls even after the engines quit. There were quite a few ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours.

Please tell us about these "ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours". I am not aware of any ditchings of a heavy jet in the open ocean, where the a/c has survived somewhat intact, let alone remained afloat for "many hours". A list of the "many" would be nice, but I will settle for even one which fits your description.

Here's one..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549

Although not in open ocean, water is water.

Edited April 30, 2014 by krisb

[F4UCorsair]

The chances of having water in an ocean as smooth as the Hudson is small, but not impossible, and therefore it is possible that it was flown on with little damage.

Take a look at the pic of the Pan Am Stratocruiser ditched in 1956 at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_landing#General_aviation That's a smooth ocean.

[boomerangutang]

It's widely thought that everyone in the passenger cabin was dead (either deliberately or by accident) before the aircraft hit the water.

Probably deliberately. If, as reported, the craft flew to high altitude, soon after turning 180 degrees, thenthe pilot, if prepared, could possibly have stayed alive - to fly the craft. The theory that he was headed to make a big statement, like flying in to Petronas Towers, looks more plausible (to me) as the days roll by. Just like many of the best laid plans, something may have prompted him to abort that plan. Perhaps Malaysian military jets diverted him, or....? Whether or not that sort of thing happened, it still appears Malaysian authorities are hushing up key info.

But if it ditched and remained afloat and structural intact, then one might hope to have survivors who would open the doors and use the slides (which float) as lifeboats. At least some should make it out, and those life-rafts do have lights and presumably some kind of emergency beacon transmitter.

It's a puzzle - I am not saying you are wrong either....

There has been some discussion of something similar, a relatively soft landing, such that the fusilage didn't split open and spill its guts. However it was done, if that scenario fits, then the craft would have sunk quite soon. That's probably when the pilot, if he was on a suicide/murder mission, died. Edited April 30, 2014 by boomerangutang

[boomerangutang]

Let's assume for a moment, that the pilot, distraught from witnessing, the day before, his friend Anwar getting found guilty of sodomy. ...had made a phone call to someone high-up in Malaysian officialdom. The call would have the pilot expressing his dire disappointment at the unfair verdict, and may have included a threat to crash the plane (in to Petronas Towers?). First off, whomever fielded or knew about such a phone call would not want to publicize it. What's in it for him/them?

In conclusion, if one or more Malaysian high-up officials gets murdered sometime soon, the above scenario could be a factor.

Recently, Anwar's attorney died. All the papers reported that he crashed his car. End of story. Yet, the photos of his car showed a side collision. If someone crashes their car, it's unlikely the collision is from the side. Plus, he was 80-plus. He's either a careful driver, to have lived and driven for so many decades, or he would have a chauffeur, as befits his high social status and wealth. Was that mystery phone call from the pilot, on March 8th from the cockpit of the doomed plane, made to the attorney? Inquiring minds want to know.

[boomerangutang]

If I were assigned to investigate, one of the first things I'd do would be to look at the phone logs of everyone whom the pilot may have called on, or right before March 8, when the plane took off.

airport brass

Anwar and his attorney (who died a few days ago)

The PM and everyone on down the pecking order to rank of colonel.

The pilot's friends, and his wife's correspondence.

Concurrently, could be email trails - of significance.

Are Malaysian authorities doing any of this? If they are, it's very clandestine, as they certainly don't want anything revealed which may tarnish Malaysia's face. It's much better for Malaysia's image and its airline (and the airline's investers), to try to get mud to stick to Boeing. As Pee Wee Herman would say, 'connect the dots.'

[F4UCorsair]

If I were assigned to investigate, one of the first things I'd do would be to look at the phone logs of everyone whom the pilot may have called on, or right before March 8, when the plane took off.

airport brass

Anwar and his attorney (who died a few days ago)

The PM and everyone on down the pecking order to rank of colonel.

The pilot's friends, and his wife's correspondence.

Concurrently, could be email trails - of significance.

Are Malaysian authorities doing any of this? If they are, it's very clandestine, as they certainly don't want anything revealed which may tarnish Malaysia's face. It's much better for Malaysia's image and its airline (and the airline's investers), to try to get mud to stick to Boeing. As Pee Wee Herman would say, 'connect the dots.'

I'm sure it's all been covered boomerangutang. They had published within a couple of days that the Captain had made a 'phone call immediately before the flight, possibly from the flight deck, so they're onto it, also that the Co-pilot's 'phone had been used in flight.

You could offer your services as the TV amateur sleuth? I'm sure the brightest and best are on the job, and possibly being obstructed by MH if there is even a sniff of culpability, but it will be solved, and resolved. Remember Air NZ ducking for cover when their DC10 ploughed into Mt Erebus? Flight Planning's fault, and they successfully, for a while, had the Captain blamed.

Why only down to the rank of Colonel? Which service, Army? It's possible that their Air Force has a rank of Colonel also; some do.

Trying to lob the blame on the manufacturer isn't unheard of. That's what the Japanese did when the fin came off their 747 25+ years ago and killed about 620. Boeing, you take the rap, or we won't be buying any more Boeing aircraft.

If there is a connection with Anwar Ibrahim being jailed for sodomy, my guess would be that the Captain may have been implicated/involved (press reports indicated a close friendship), and was on notice that he would be charged. In spite of our laws in the west and our personal views, sodomy is a crime in Malaysia, and as a Muslim man there would be significant stigma associated with being involved, or worse, jailed, so the Captain decided he'd end it all rather than face the music? I'm only guessing.

If the sodomy police could see the muslim men down in Soi Nana Sukhumvit, they'd have a field day!!!

Edited April 30, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[OZEMADE]

Aussie searchers reject Malaysia plane claim.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/23076237/aussie-searchers-reject-malaysia-plane-claim/

[Eloelo]

So The plane was lost and found in the ocean off Australia's west coast, then it was in Diego Garcia, then it was lying in a pool of water off the coast off Thailand. then it was in the valley between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and now it is in the bay of Bengal.

we can eavesdrop on any phone calls. track all emails.find a pin in a haystack via satellite. track sonar buoys on the bottom of the world put a man on the moon. walk in space..but HONESTLY WE CANNOT FIND THIS FXXXNG PLANE ANYWHERE! how good is this technology!

[P45Mustang]

" Chicog's not answering the phone."

[hawker9000]

So The plane was lost and found in the ocean off Australia's west coast, then it was in Diego Garcia, then it was lying in a pool of water off the coast off Thailand. then it was in the valley between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and now it is in the bay of Bengal.

we can eavesdrop on any phone calls. track all emails.find a pin in a haystack via satellite. track sonar buoys on the bottom of the world put a man on the moon. walk in space..but HONESTLY WE CANNOT FIND THIS FXXXNG PLANE ANYWHERE! how good is this technology!

It's quite a big ocean. It really is. And there's a reasonable chance that a knowledgeable and experienced pilot, familiar with ATC practices & capabilities in that part of the world, was intentionally trying to evade detection in it. It doesn't surprise me in the least that such things are possible.

[boomerangutang]

I'm sure it's all been covered boomerangutang. They had published within a couple of days that the Captain had made a 'phone call immediately before the flight, possibly from the flight deck, so they're onto it, also that the Co-pilot's 'phone had been used in flight.

'on to it' only so far as saying there was a phone call made by the pilot. If there is any further data, we the public aren't being told. Maybe that's ok, at this time, to keep us in the dark (in line with investigative proceeduress). But it's not the Malaysian way - to be open and frank about such important things. So, unless there's mega pressure from outside Malaysia, for Malaysian authorities to 'fess up' on what they know, they will continue to obfuscate.

If Malaysian investigators are anything like Thai investigators, then there could be whole lot of stones left unturned.

Remember, early on in the investigation, experts found nothing unusual in the simulator at the pilot's house. The Malaysian press release was ecstatic with relief, as if to say; 'There, that lead went nowhere. Further proof that the pilot did nothing wrong.' Do we know what was erased from the hard drive? Doubtful.

the co-pilot, if he tried calling out, probably didn't make a connection.

[hawker9000]

I'm sure it's all been covered boomerangutang. They had published within a couple of days that the Captain had made a 'phone call immediately before the flight, possibly from the flight deck, so they're onto it, also that the Co-pilot's 'phone had been used in flight.

'on to it' only so far as saying there was a phone call made by the pilot. If there is any further data, we the public aren't being told. Maybe that's ok, at this time, to keep us in the dark (in line with investigative proceeduress). But it's not the Malaysian way - to be open and frank about such important things. So, unless there's mega pressure from outside Malaysia, for Malaysian authorities to 'fess up' on what they know, they will continue to obfuscate.

If Malaysian investigators are anything like Thai investigators, then there could be whole lot of stones left unturned.

Remember, early on in the investigation, experts found nothing unusual in the simulator at the pilot's house. The Malaysian press release was ecstatic with relief, as if to say; 'There, that lead went nowhere. Further proof that the pilot did nothing wrong.' Do we know what was erased from the hard drive? Doubtful.

the co-pilot, if he tried calling out, probably didn't make a connection.

WE don't know what was erased from the hard drive, but by now perhaps the FBI does. Merely deleting, or even overwriting, files on a disk doesn't necessarily mean they're unrecoverable to someone with the resources & know-how to do so. (And if the guy was using advanced erasure applications to perform the deletions, I'd think that in itself might raise some red flags.)

Edited April 30, 2014 by hawker9000

[balo]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

[P45Mustang]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

+1

You do the Indian Ocean, I'll do the South China Sea. I can borrow a metal detector from a guy in the village.

[ABCer]

Over one month ago I said and repeated many times:

'Look in Malaysia on the ground for the answers.' And I have no expertise.

[hawker9000]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

You don't know? You must be one of the few not claiming to.

And it's such a big airplane! Why start searching almost anywhere and your search team is BOUND to find it... Just look for a trail of US Navy air-to-air missile parts & pieces.

[ABCer]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

You don't know? You must be one of the few not claiming to.

And it's such a big airplane! Why start searching almost anywhere and your search team is BOUND to find it... Just look for a trail of US Navy air-to-air missile parts & pieces.

Just once, this time I would believe it was not USA but Malaysians protecting their twin tower.

[P45Mustang]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

You don't know? You must be one of the few not claiming to.

And it's such a big airplane! Why start searching almost anywhere and your search team is BOUND to find it... Just look for a trail of US Navy air-to-air missile parts & pieces.

Just once, this time I would believe it was not USA but Malaysians protecting their twin tower.

I have sympathy for that view. Have done for weeks.

[Oxpilot]

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I'm still befuddled as to why the US, European allies and Canada aren't more involved in this search.

The US didn't need an invitation. It had 4 citizens on board.

The US has a history of jumping in when there's trouble such as in Haiti and the tsunami in Indonesia. Right after the tsunami, the US parked either one or two Nimitz-class aircraft carriers offshore. Those carriers are staffed by more than 5,000 troops, some of whom went ashore to help. Each carrier could put out a line and pump 50,000 gallons of clean drinking water to shore every day, converted from seawater. The ships had a lot of surplus food, full hospitals, lots of medical supplies and helicopters to shuttle goods and people.

They sent a hospital ship.

Now they are almost silent. They aren't pouring assets into the search. Neither are the closest allies.

Someone please tell me why?

Is that plane in a hanger in one of the 'stans or Somalia or elsewhere with it and its passengers being held for ransom with negotiations going on?

Even if the pilot was on a suicide mission to crash it into Diego Garcia and the US shot it down, they would admit it.

Where are the big players who had passengers on board, and why are they silent?

Where is any debris at all, and why not? The seat cushions are closed-cell foam and even of torn would float forever.

If, as I believe, the pilot ditched the aircraft while he still had control there would likely be no rupture of the fuselage and therefore all of the cushions and everything else inside would remain inside as the airplane sunk intact. You still have flight controls even after the engines quit. There were quite a few ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours.

Please tell us about these "ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours". I am not aware of any ditchings of a heavy jet in the open ocean, where the a/c has survived somewhat intact, let alone remained afloat for "many hours". A list of the "many" would be nice, but I will settle for even one which fits your description.

OK, the first I recall is the ALM DC-9 that ditched off St Croix or St Thomas about 30 or 40 miles totally intact. It sank a bit quicker than "Many Hours" because the crew didn't close the outflow valves prior to ditching. After that ordeal the FAA made it mandatory for all of us to wear epaulettes on our shirts because in the water after evacuating nobody would follow the captain's commands. Not that he deserved any respect after running out of fuel because he couldn't execute any of three landing attempts. Then there was an SAS DC-8 that ditched off LAX around 1969. It did break up, but my recollection was that it was an unintentional ditching like Eastern in the everglades where the crew was distracted and nobody was flying the aircraft. A Japan Airlines DC-8 ditched in San Francisco Bay (OK, not open water like Sulley in the Hudson River) but the Ocean can be just as flat. I don't know the sea conditions when MH-370 went down. The Japanese captain committed suicide later, by the way. A Pan AM Clipper flown by Capt. Ogg ditched at Ocean Station November in the mid-Pacific and all survived. It wasn't a heavy jet, but a 4 engine clipper. You seem to be a nit-picker, so let me say in advance, no, that isn't many, but in my years as an overwater instructor on heavy jets, I believe that an intact open ocean ditching is not that difficult when sea conditions, meaning wind, primary and secondary swells are known and can be observed visually from 2000 feet down in order to make small changes to heading prior to ditching. Modern aircraft hulls are strong enough to withstand ditching to a point. Again let me say I was only offering a Possible explanation as to why no debris has been found.

[Chicog]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

After a couple of months in rough seas and a few cyclones, I'd take a stab at Davy Jones Locker.

[P45Mustang]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

After a couple of months in rough seas and a few cyclones, I'd take a stab at Davy Jones Locker.

One might anticipate some of the more buoyant debris to be washed up on a beach possibly?

[Carmine6]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

After a couple of months in rough seas and a few cyclones, I'd take a stab at Davy Jones Locker.

One might anticipate some of the more buoyant debris to be washed up on a beach possibly?

I think the problem might be when it would wash up. There's that gyre in the Indian Ocean that's supposedly corralling trash, which would hold onto it. This search area seems to be near the edge of that or in the current that seems to go north toward Indonesia, but then hits a current going west. The wind was described as generally towards the northeast, so maybe by wind and current some could get to Australia and some to Indonesia, but just the currents don't seem so favorable. Something might get stuck going back towards Africa.

Or the craziest would be it gets carried back that way and washes ashore on Diego Garcia. If that happened, no one would believe it came from the current.

http://oceanmotion.org/html/background/wind-driven-surface.htm

http://torontoscubaclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ocean_currents_gyres-earthguide.ucsd_.edu_.gif

[tigermonkey]

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I'm still befuddled as to why the US, European allies and Canada aren't more involved in this search.

The US didn't need an invitation. It had 4 citizens on board.

The US has a history of jumping in when there's trouble such as in Haiti and the tsunami in Indonesia. Right after the tsunami, the US parked either one or two Nimitz-class aircraft carriers offshore. Those carriers are staffed by more than 5,000 troops, some of whom went ashore to help. Each carrier could put out a line and pump 50,000 gallons of clean drinking water to shore every day, converted from seawater. The ships had a lot of surplus food, full hospitals, lots of medical supplies and helicopters to shuttle goods and people.

They sent a hospital ship.

Now they are almost silent. They aren't pouring assets into the search. Neither are the closest allies.

Someone please tell me why?

Is that plane in a hanger in one of the 'stans or Somalia or elsewhere with it and its passengers being held for ransom with negotiations going on?

Even if the pilot was on a suicide mission to crash it into Diego Garcia and the US shot it down, they would admit it.

Where are the big players who had passengers on board, and why are they silent?

Where is any debris at all, and why not? The seat cushions are closed-cell foam and even of torn would float forever.

If, as I believe, the pilot ditched the aircraft while he still had control there would likely be no rupture of the fuselage and therefore all of the cushions and everything else inside would remain inside as the airplane sunk intact. You still have flight controls even after the engines quit. There were quite a few ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours.

Please tell us about these "ocean ditchings where the aircraft remained afloat for many hours". I am not aware of any ditchings of a heavy jet in the open ocean, where the a/c has survived somewhat intact, let alone remained afloat for "many hours". A list of the "many" would be nice, but I will settle for even one which fits your description.

OK, the first I recall is the ALM DC-9 that ditched off St Croix or St Thomas about 30 or 40 miles totally intact. It sank a bit quicker than "Many Hours" because the crew didn't close the outflow valves prior to ditching. After that ordeal the FAA made it mandatory for all of us to wear epaulettes on our shirts because in the water after evacuating nobody would follow the captain's commands. Not that he deserved any respect after running out of fuel because he couldn't execute any of three landing attempts. Then there was an SAS DC-8 that ditched off LAX around 1969. It did break up, but my recollection was that it was an unintentional ditching like Eastern in the everglades where the crew was distracted and nobody was flying the aircraft. A Japan Airlines DC-8 ditched in San Francisco Bay (OK, not open water like Sulley in the Hudson River) but the Ocean can be just as flat. I don't know the sea conditions when MH-370 went down. The Japanese captain committed suicide later, by the way. A Pan AM Clipper flown by Capt. Ogg ditched at Ocean Station November in the mid-Pacific and all survived. It wasn't a heavy jet, but a 4 engine clipper. You seem to be a nit-picker, so let me say in advance, no, that isn't many, but in my years as an overwater instructor on heavy jets, I believe that an intact open ocean ditching is not that difficult when sea conditions, meaning wind, primary and secondary swells are known and can be observed visually from 2000 feet down in order to make small changes to heading prior to ditching. Modern aircraft hulls are strong enough to withstand ditching to a point. Again let me say I was only offering a Possible explanation as to why no debris has been found.

Calling me a "nit picker" does not resolve the fact that you made a grossly exaggerated and unsupportable statement. The three jet incidents that you mention are rather irrelevant when it comes to discussing debris subsequent to a ditching of a B777, which was the subject here.

ALM 980 was the only one of the three which was a ditching. The other two were flights into terrain, even though that terrain was water. The ditched aircraft was a DC9 with tail mounted engines, which you should know is a very different situation from ditching a T7 with its large pod mounted engines below the wings. Having one or both engines shear away from initial contact is very different from 'bellying' the fuselage onto a swell. ......and yes there was almost no debris.

SAS 933 ( a DC8) broke into three pieces, when it accidentally flew into the water in Santa Monica Bay. Although the nose section floated for hours, there was substantial debris.

JAL Flt 2 'landed' in 3 meter deep water short of the runway in San Francisco Bay, and settled into the silt, with the front doors still above water - no debris. The aircraft was actually recovered and repaired.

If you do (or did) the work that you claim, and I do not dispute that, I can only hope that your instruction was more factual and less dramatic.

Edited May 1, 2014 by tigermonkey

[F4UCorsair]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

You don't know? You must be one of the few not claiming to.

And it's such a big airplane! Why start searching almost anywhere and your search team is BOUND to find it... Just look for a trail of US Navy air-to-air missile parts & pieces.

Just once, this time I would believe it was not USA but Malaysians protecting their twin tower.

I have sympathy for that view. Have done for weeks.

But if it was shot down because it was a terrorism threat, why wouldn't it be admitted. I understand not publicising it if it was only target practice, but if it's about to be used in a terrorist strike, then there would be no problem coming clean.

A further problem is that if it was shot down close to the coast, or over land if the twin towers were a potential target, as it would have been, there would be debris from here to eternity.

It couldn't be cleaned up without thousands of people knowing, and as we've seen elsewhere on this thread, there is always somebody seeking his 15 minutes of fame. Authorities can't keep anything hushed up for long, e.g., the American pilot who claims he can see it in the ocean, and GeoResonance.

Incidentally, that the official search organization hasn't bothered to contact a GeoResonance representative indicates what they think of the claim.

[F4UCorsair]

Anyone know where the debris is ? I will send my own search team soon .

After a couple of months in rough seas and a few cyclones, I'd take a stab at Davy Jones Locker.

One might anticipate some of the more buoyant debris to be washed up on a beach possibly?

Exactly. If it's in the sea, there will be debris wash up, and I'm surprised it hasn't already.

I recall when I lived in Darwin many years ago, and ran on the beach out East Point way most lunch breaks, and I saw what looked like part of an aircraft.

Closer examination revealed it was a F86 Sabre wing, but nobody on the RAAF radar station there at that time could remember one going missing. Research revealed it had crashed 15+ years before off the coast during a dogfight in a combined services exercise. Very little wreckage was found at the time, but more than 15 years later, a wing washed up. A few large components were recovered.

Incidentally, the cause of the crash was pulling 'rolling G's', tight turn and pulling up simultaneously. The wing couldn't handle the G's it and folded. It happened with such force that there were traces of the painted decals from the top of the right wing transferred to the top of the left wing!

If there is a place in the Indian Ocean, as has been suggested, that 'corrals' floating debris, the authorities surely must know of it, and be searching there also. A similar area in the Atlantic is known as the Sargasso Sea, and either forms part of the Bermuda Triangle, or is very close.

Edited May 1, 2014 by F4UCorsair