Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[khaosai]

Hi,

It seems the aircrafts last known position was at waypoint Igari. This is the position which defines the boundary between Malaysia and Vietnam. It is approximately 90 miles off the Malaysian Coast from Kota Bharu and 200 miles off the coast of Vietnam. The turn mentioned could be due to the change in direction of the airway system they followed.

Communication on this route would initially be on VHF radio, possibly then on HF radio and also the option to use Datalink (CPDLC/ADS) which is available both in Malaysian and Vietnamese airspace. Both the VHF and HF radios have circuit breakers which can be easily accessed.

The aircraft has 3 radio panels available, left, centre and right. On these you would tune the VHF and HF frequencies which are generally passed to the crew by air traffic control or you can get from the charts that are used en route so long term loss of communication is not that common. The pilot can also log on to the datalink facility which then enables messages to be sent to and from the aircraft between the pilot and controller. The ADS function working automatically in the background. ADS has the option to be selected off and can also be selected to emergency if required.

The transponder which is generally selected on just prior to pushback is a system that allows the controller to issue a unique 4 digit code to the aircraft to enable identification during flight using secondary surveillance radar. The pilot can also select a discrete code to highlight to the controller if the radio has failed, there is an emergency in effect or unlawful interference has taken place. It also provides traffic collision avoidance information during flight. It can easily be selected off during flight.

ACARS is a onboard system which allows communication between the ground and aircraft. It works by using VHF frequencies around the world and when out of range of VHF (limited to line of sight)will automatically change over to using satellite communication. It is generally used to send flight plans, air traffic control clearances and fuel figures prior to departure and will also communicate in the background to the engineering department any significant aircraft issues.

You also have satellite communication which is generally available during flight except in the polar region.

A rapid decompression would be very demanding for a crew to deal with. First and foremost is to get the oxygen mask on for obvious reasons. You would then continue with the required memory actions then ensure all of those have been completed by referencing the applicable check list. If the cabin begins to depressurise at a slower rate then it's a lot more manageable. You get a caution at a cabin altitude of 8500ft with a warning at 10000ft. The passenger oxygen masks will deploy at approximately 13500 ft and provide just over 20 minutes of oxygen. If overcome due to the effects of hypoxia then the aircraft will continue to fly until fuel exhaustion occurs.

The glide distance of the B777 with both engines operating from 35000ft would be in the region of 100 nautical miles. With both engines off it would be less than that, perhaps 70 to 80 miles.

A controlled ditching would be very demanding, particularly at night or in heavy seas. There is a designated check list for this event if it is ever required.

Would it be possible to fly low, below radar in this aircraft. Personally I think it would be.

What surprises me is the lack of communication. No mayday call, either on the VHF radio or HF radio or using the ADS function of the datalink. No downlink of ACARS information to the airline if a significant event has occurred during flight. It may however have been unserviceable. No radar trace. No debris. No seismic activity recorded.

The aircraft probably had in the region of 50 tons of fuel onboard at departure. At top of climb that would then be in the region of 45 tons which would enable the aircraft to remain airborne for a long period of time. At cruise altitude it would be flying at about 470 knots true air speed.

Thoughts with all involved and hope they can get some closure soon.

[SeaVisionBurma]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/03/11/19/08/woman-remembers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot

This is very bad if its all true.

So much egg over Malaysian Ailines face. The old story with Asian airline carriers. Captains rule! No whistle blowing allowed.

I don't believe any of that story for a single minute. Sounds completely fabricated - meeting them before boarding (wouldn't happen, MH does a turn-around in Phuket which would mean the pilots would not be in the departure area with the pax pre-boarding.

Smoking in the cockpit - highly unlikely

2 women in the cockpit? Highly unlikely

MH operates a 737 on this route. No chance this could have happened as the story states.

Some of the story has no weight to it as you say. But I find it plausible that the girl had some close encounter with him in the cockpit.

Maybe a quick few minutes visit to the flight deck and a flirty chat between them perhaps, and then 3 years later suddenly sells a completely embellished fantasy story for cash to A Current Affair.

But the rest of it - nonsense, and in completely bad taste if it is.

[siampolee]

If as the relatives state their missing family members phones are connecting it might well be that the aircraft wreckage is strewn over remote land or that the aircraft is still intact but totally electronically dead and on the ground. However one needs to ask why if those phones are ringing why can't the signal be traced?

We really know little about our planet and its surrounding areas, much the same could be said for the political and the terrorist surroundings too.

This tragedy has the makings of a Mary Celeste legend. Many theories but to date nothing 100% conclusive has reached as to the reality of that situation.

Edited March 11, 2014 by siampolee

[laobali]

Another forum's poster:

"From the comments so far it seems that there would be some sort of transponder signal even if the plane was disintegrated. If this is the case hijack was a real possibility. Where can the plane land without detection?

I am thinking if someone's up to no good then they would make sure they pick the best pilot out there who can expertly manoeuvre the plane to where ever they want to go."

Do many 777 captains spend their off-duty time at a sophisticated flight 777 simulator with 3 widescreen panoramic monitors at home? (published on Facebook)

I know of pilots who have the PMDG addons for Flightsim. They say it keeps them sharp. Very realistic in their view.

Fair enough, but I wonder if the average operating pilot does this for his own current aircraft type or only the more passionate/extreme/fanatical.

[wprime]

Calling in on the radio is not a priority when there's an emergency. First and foremost is the immediate safety of the people on board, so getting things under control is paramount, with a radio call only following when there is capacity in the workload. That could be some time, or maybe never if the situation was too far gone.

Yes but if the situation I described is what happened, it would not appear to have been an emergency at first, it would appear as a few systems failing.

[bubba]

Now here is something interesting that just surfaced. Seems that the Malaysian Air Force had a radar sighting of MH370 near Pulau Perak over the Straights of Malacca...and at 0240 am! That is the time that had been cited earlier, and two hours after departure.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mh370-detected-above-malacca-straits-2-40am-062617741.html

[Arma]

Now here is something interesting that just surfaced. Seems that the Malaysian Air Force had a radar sighting of MH370 near Pulau Perak over the Straights of Malacca...and at 0240 am! That is the time that had been cited earlier, and two hours after departure.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mh370-detected-above-malacca-straits-2-40am-062617741.html

This might explain why the US Navy has 2 Orion P3 aricraft surveilling that area

[jpinx]

BBC just reported that the military radar tracked a possible target across the straits of Malacca -- heading west or south-west. This, combined with the reports of fishermen sightings of a low-flying jet heading that way, make me lean towards a sophisticated hi-jacking.

[kotsak]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/03/11/19/08/woman-remembers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot

This is very bad if its all true.

So much egg over Malaysian Ailines face. The old story with Asian airline carriers. Captains rule! No whistle blowing allowed.

I don't believe any of that story for a single minute. Sounds completely fabricated - meeting them before boarding (wouldn't happen, MH does a turn-around in Phuket which would mean the pilots would not be in the departure area with the pax pre-boarding.

Smoking in the cockpit - highly unlikely

2 women in the cockpit? Highly unlikely

MH operates a 737 on this route. No chance this could have happened as the story states.

Some of the story has no weight to it as you say. But I find it plausible that the girl had some close encounter with him in the cockpit.

Maybe a quick few minutes visit to the flight deck and a flirty chat between them perhaps, and then 3 years later suddenly sells a completely embellished fantasy story for cash to A Current Affair.

But the rest of it - nonsense, and in completely bad taste if it is.

This whole case will provide a good opportunity for a book/movie so they may be thinking this is a good chance to put their story into it.

[steve73]

Oxygen masks in the passenger cabin deploy (drop) automatically on a low cabin pressure, and are available at all times in the cockpit & other crew areas.

I've been unfortunate to have experienced a failure of cabin pressurisation whilst at 41,000 ft on the UK internal flight. Although it was not an "explosive" depressurisation, my ears "popped" significantly, and there was a little pain/discomfort. O2 masks dropped immediately, and a recorded message was broadcast over the intercom, as the aircraft was put into a fairly steep dive. Air crew assisted a few pax to get their masks on, by walking the aisle using the spare masks at EVERY seat row (4 masks for every 3 seats - to allow for infants). During this rapid descent, there was a lot of vibration and airframe shuddering (and quite a bit of panic). After maybe 5 minutes (although seemed much longer) the aircraft flattened out and the pilot made an intercom announcement that we were at 10,000 ft and could remove the masks... Explained that we'd lost pressurisation from BOTH engines, there was nothing more to worry about and that we had an immediate clearance to land at Heathrow, about 40 minutes later (which was good news as Friday evenings usually required about 1 hour in the stack).

Even if it had been a more rapid depressurisation due to a major structural fault, then I'm still sure there would have been time to use the masks, unless the pilots were incapacitated in some other way.

[culicine]

BBC just reported that the military radar tracked a possible target across the straits of Malacca -- heading west or south-west. This, combined with the reports of fishermen sightings of a low-flying jet heading that way, make me lean towards a sophisticated hi-jacking.

It's a complete turn around ...crossing southern Thailand heading towards Indonesia. Why has this taken so long to surface ?

[Mosha]

Another forum's poster:

"From the comments so far it seems that there would be some sort of transponder signal even if the plane was disintegrated. If this is the case hijack was a real possibility. Where can the plane land without detection?

I am thinking if someone's up to no good then they would make sure they pick the best pilot out there who can expertly manoeuvre the plane to where ever they want to go."

Do many 777 captains spend their off-duty time at a sophisticated flight 777 simulator with 3 widescreen panoramic monitors at home? (published on Facebook)

I know of pilots who have the PMDG addons for Flightsim. They say it keeps them sharp. Very realistic in their view.

Fair enough, but I wonder if the average operating pilot does this for his own current aircraft type or only the more passionate/extreme/fanatical.

You would be surprised what lengths some simmers go to. One guy, had a set up that he had a passenger cabin set up in gis attic. He world have friends and neighbours round. While he flew the flight. They would watch an in flight video, while his wife served food and drinks.I'm happy with a yoke and pedals and righting AI flightplans for a group I'm with. His set up was not out of the ordinary for a dedicated simmer.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Calling in on the radio is not a priority when there's an emergency. First and foremost is the immediate safety of the people on board, so getting things under control is paramount, with a radio call only following when there is capacity in the workload. That could be some time, or maybe never if the situation was too far gone.

Yup - all pilots (should) follow "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" when things go pear shaped in the office.

Get the aircraft under control and stable first, then work out where you need to go, and then make contact - in that order of priority

[Chicog]

I think the "navigate" bit means "make sure you aren't flying straight at a mountain", i.e. find some clear, unoccupied space.

[noddy77]

Great that we have so many skilled Pilots here to tell us how to fly an aeroplane.

Now we just need someone skilled in finding them when they are missing.

[SeaVisionBurma]

I think the "navigate" bit means "make sure you aren't flying straight at a mountain", i.e. find some clear, unoccupied space.

Yes, or directly into the path of another plane, etc

It also means that if you have to get on the ground in a hurry (complete loss of power, structural damage, etc) that you find your nearest airport which can accommodate your type and point yourselves there asap.

[balo]

The new information shows that the plane could have been flying for several hundred miles, maybe it crashed into the remote jungle of Borneo, who knows.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 11, 2014 by balo

[MB1]

I think the "navigate" bit means "make sure you aren't flying straight at a mountain", i.e. find some clear, unoccupied space.

What like the sea ?.....The navigate bit makes sense to me, to me it means get the plane under control if possible....Flying into the sea could be just as devastating as flying straight into a mountain depending on conditions of the sea....Thing is that up to now no one knows what has happened or where the plane is, but I'd say that it being in the sea is high on the list of many peoples minds..

[harrry]

If they had to turn back why would they not divert to TGG. less than 100 km from last position. Almost within glide distance.

Edited March 11, 2014 by harrry

[noddy77]

If they had to turn back why would they not divert to TGG. less than 100 km from last position. Almost within glide distance.

TGG?

[harrry]

If they had to turn back why would they not divert to TGG. less than 100 km from last position. Almost within glide distance.

TGG?

http://www.gcmap.com/airport/TGG

[jpinx]

Here's a thought -- the plane probably had enough fuel to get to Somalia.......

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zZmvH169Bb6M.kHWvg2auxxR8

Sophisticated hi-jacking maybe...The

security authorities should know more -- which may be why we're not hearing much

Edited March 11, 2014 by jpinx

[EyesWideOpen]

The misinformation, and conflicting reports, are going to make Malaysian Airlines

and example of how NOT to handle an air disaster... I still think this airplane has

been hijacked ,electronics disabled, and was flown under the radar to an unknown

destination. The United States has spy satellites that can read the serial number of

a dollar bill you are holding. If there was wreckage floating around, they would have

found it.

[Mosha]

If they had to turn back why would they not divert to TGG. less than 100 km from last position. Almost within glide distance.

TGG?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Mahmud_Airport

[laobali]

Another forum's poster:

"From the comments so far it seems that there would be some sort of transponder signal even if the plane was disintegrated. If this is the case hijack was a real possibility. Where can the plane land without detection?

I am thinking if someone's up to no good then they would make sure they pick the best pilot out there who can expertly manoeuvre the plane to where ever they want to go."

Do many 777 captains spend their off-duty time at a sophisticated flight 777 simulator with 3 widescreen panoramic monitors at home? (published on Facebook)

I know of pilots who have the PMDG addons for Flightsim. They say it keeps them sharp. Very realistic in their view.

Fair enough, but I wonder if the average operating pilot does this for his own current aircraft type or only the more passionate/extreme/fanatical.

You would be surprised what lengths some simmers go to. One guy, had a set up that he had a passenger cabin set up in gis attic. He world have friends and neighbours round. While he flew the flight. They would watch an in flight video, while his wife served food and drinks.I'm happy with a yoke and pedals and righting AI flightplans for a group I'm with. His set up was not out of the ordinary for a dedicated simmer.

All good, harmless fun, but was he a 'real' pilot or just a wannabe?

[noddy77]

I would like to know this.

Does the USA always send out FBI to these situations so quickly?

Did they do that with Air france?

[khaosai]

Hi,

For me the biggest threat to aviation is an uncontrollable fire onboard. As stated above the aviate, navigate and communicate technique is used extensively within aviation. The navigation part is get the aircraft pointed to where you want or need to go. With the uncontrollable fire case that option may well be to ditch the aircraft.

The final report on the UPS crash in the Middle East is a sobering account on how quickly things can develop.

Boeing's guidance on smoke fire or fumes that are uncontrollable dictates an immediate landing. If a severe situation then amongst the options is to consider ditching.

[laolover88]

So now this is where the plane could be!

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=PEK,+KUL,+&R=2100nm%406%B0+56%27+12N+103%B0+35%27+6E,+2600nm%406%B0+56%27+12N+103%B0+35%27+6E&MS=wls&MR=600&MX=540x540&PM=*&PC=%23ff0000&RC=%23000080

[noddy77]

Hi,

For me the biggest threat to aviation is an uncontrollable fire onboard. As stated above the aviate, navigate and communicate technique is used extensively within aviation. The navigation part is get the aircraft pointed to where you want or need to go. With the uncontrollable fire case that option may well be to ditch the aircraft.

The final report on the UPS crash in the Middle East is a sobering account on how quickly things can develop.

Boeing's guidance on smoke fire or fumes that are uncontrollable dictates an immediate landing. If a severe situation then amongst the options is to consider ditching.

Satelites would have spotted any fire.

[noddy77]

So now this is where the plane could be!

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=PEK,+KUL,+&R=2100nm%406%B0+56%27+12N+103%B0+35%27+6E,+2600nm%406%B0+56%27+12N+103%B0+35%27+6E&MS=wls&MR=600&MX=540x540&PM=*&PC=%23ff0000&RC=%23000080

To fly low intentionally missing primary radar would burn tons of fuel reducing range.