Army should stop with its pretentiousness and address real issues

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Army should stop with its pretentiousness and address real issues
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Secession talk 'reckless' but people are angry

The Army is demanding legal action be taken against a small band of red shirt activists who floated the idea of a separate state with the capital in Chiang Mai.

Army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha accused these activists of being separatists and accused them of committing treason.

The secession proposal from Wuthipong Kotthammakhun, aka "Ko Tee", reflects an emotionally charged man. His feelings may have stemmed from the perceived unfair treatment of his fellow red shirts, many of whom are still being locked up while their yellow-shirt counterparts are freed on bail.

But his proposal does not reflect the sentiment or the feeling of the residents in the North and Northeast.

Regardless of how reckless or shallow the suggestion was, we should not lose sight of the fact that his was just an idea. At least the issue that he raised helped remind us that part of the problem of this country's governance is that it is heavily centralised.

Unfortunately, the issue of decentralisation as a solution to the current crises - including the separatist insurgency in the Muslim majority South - does not get the attention it deserves.

We pay lip service to the need for checks and balances but at this juncture, many activists and protesters on both sides of the political divide don't really care what's right or wrong, legal or illegal, just or unjust. It pretty much comes down to what side you're on and it's all or nothing.

The Army, whose image took a beating from the May 2010 killings that resulted in the death of at least 90 red shirts, has been working hard to reinvent itself and that explains why it is going after a handful of red shirt activists with all their might.

They want to be seen as an honest broker and thus, the saviour of the nation.

But going after a handful of red shirt activists who floated a half-baked idea that has yet to generate any traction won't redeem the military from their role in the May 2010 bloody crackdown.

Perhaps the country's recent experience with secession could teach us a thing or two. The actions of Haji Sulong Toemeena, the spiritual leader of the Malay-speaking region in the deep South, has become part of the grand narrative that justifies the current wave of insurgency that as so far claimed about 6,000 lives since January 2004. Haji Sulong was just trying to come up with ways for the Malays and the Thai state to live together peacefully.

And then there was the student-led pro-democracy movement in 1976, a brutal event that drove thousands into the jungle - people who would not have done so if they were given adequate space and a forum to make their voices heard.

If the Army wants to help the current situation, it needs to think about upholding professionalism and duty.

No one knows how long the current political crisis will remain with us. But until it is over, the Army will remain a stakeholder because of its role in ousting Thaksin Shinawatra in 2006. So let's not pretend otherwise.

But this is not to say that Thaksin is an angel. The tycoon is self-centred, ambitious and doesn't seem to care if the entire nation goes down with him.

The recent attempt to drive through the amnesty bill that would clear him of any wrongdoing was an illustration of the Yingluck's government true colour and key purpose. But instead of telling the reds "I told you so", perhaps it's time for others to reach out to one another and look for ways out of this mess.

Pretentiousness from the Army, or anybody for that matter, doesn't help the situation.

-- The Nation 2014-03-09

[thesetat2013]

If the Army doesnt react quickly to this talk of secession it will get out of hand. As for it just being something said in anger or frustration i find hard to believe since they have already said this has been in discussion for 6 months.

Now with the Reds recruiting a force of young men who is to say once this force is large enough that they will not take up arms and attempt a real secession.

Since YL and her party has known about their talks of secession it is clear they support this should they lose power here.

This was obvious when the Reds began speaking publically about secession and the PM didnt speak against it for a week. About the same time the RTA started to give warnings to end such talks. I fear that the delays in removing this GOV is only to give the REDS time to make their army and seceede from thailand with YL or Thaksin as their leader.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[noitom]

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

[Goat Roper]

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

Or to go even further back in history when Field marshal Sarit Thanarat was Prime Minister of Thailand if a person got caught stealing they got a bullet in the head. Yea them Yellow shirts closed down the airport but that too is history.

[kikoman]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

[Valentine]

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

In terms of balance why don't you mention how long the reds took over Central Bangkok?

[JRSoul]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

[pisico]

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine!! days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

The rainmaker in Thailand since 1938 (read about Pibunsongkhram and his 12 mandates) has been the Thai Army.

Remember 2006? For whatever reasons the coup was not in keeping with the tenets of Democracy but, but... Yellows will cry: Thaksin was a bad boy!

Dialogue between 2 Farangs:

Did you lose any money, land or chattels?

No, but he was a bad boy and I am a Liberal Democrat. It's a matter of principles, you know?

[Valentine]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

The army will be well remembered for their assistance during the floods. Not sure but I never heard of them putting their name on donated goods.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Valentine

[JRSoul]

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine!! days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

The rainmaker in Thailand since 1938 (read about Pibunsongkhram and his 12 mandates) has been the Thai Army.

Remember 2006? For whatever reasons the coup was not in keeping with the tenets of Democracy but, but... Yellows will cry: Thaksin was a bad boy!

Dialogue between 2 Farangs:

Did you lose any money, land or chattels?

No, but he was a bad boy and I am a Liberal Democrat. It's a matter of principles, you know?

Dialogue between 2 Farangs:

Did you lose any money, land or chattels?

Yes, the mongrel stole billions of baht that could have been used to improve the life of my Thai family. Is blatant theft and an attempt to install a dictatorship not enough?

[rocky3]

While the Army is set on going after the separatist red shirts, should they also be rounding up the people 's council and Suthep"s thugs for the same charges. they are advocating the overthrow of an elected government and the installation of an unelected body.

[ThailandNoob]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

What about protecting unarmed voters from armed anti-democracy thugs?

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[awakewarrior]

Keep it up Thai Royal Army. The more they talk about charging Kotee and UDD speakers with Treason, sedition, lese majeste....unlawfully hanging banners on overpasses etc. the more Thai people begin to wake from there slumber and talk more openly about ALL things that need urgently to be discussed.

The most “treasonous” acts in recent months have been by members of the Democrat Party, which funded, backed and supported the anti-democrats. These now former MP's and hopefully foreever banned sought to “Overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution” (Article 68).

"Army Declares War On Non-Existing Separatists”

[JRSoul]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

What about protecting unarmed voters from armed anti-democracy thugs?

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Quite likely, if it was occurring on a regular (daily?) basis. How do you tell which is which?

[expat888]

Personally, I don't see the problem with the north splitting away from Bangkok. They have been at war forever.

Edited March 9, 2014 by expat888

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

Or to go even further back in history when Field marshal Sarit Thanarat was Prime Minister of Thailand if a person got caught stealing they got a bullet in the head. Yea them Yellow shirts closed down the airport but that too is history.

Of course the junta wasn't stealing were they.

[tezzainoz]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

so you want to forget that 1 month ago I printed here on Thai Visa my thai wants to sell our house and businees here in Udon Thani as we have been advised it will soon be a red governed state

so how long is this, was just an over night silly thought

Thais have know about this plan for months

Yes the army needs to be impartial,

but treason is treason no matter how you look at it

Edited March 9, 2014 by tezzainoz

[PepperMe]

The red supporters on TVF clearly understand that 'impartial' means 'on their side only'

Pathetic! As well as the narrow minded OP.

No mention of the red army being raised on the well documented orders of Charupong the interior minister, or the fact that the real reason that yellows walk free as opposed to reds being locked up, is simply because the yellows are quite reasonable citizens with a point to make, the red shirts are just over the top, violent uneducated thugs having their strings pulled by a criminal in the middle east.

Sod 'presumptuous' .... What is happening at the moment, the army has the right to 'presume' that things will turn very ugly, very soon.

Giving these Thaksin terrorists the 'benefit of the doubt' which is what the OP and the TVF reds condone, is going to prove to have been a massive error of judgement when the time comes and it is obviously too late.

Edited March 9, 2014 by PepperMe

[geriatrickid]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

so you want to forget that 1 month ago I printed here on Thai Visa my thai wants to sell our house and businees here in Udon Thani as we have been advised it will soon be a red governed state

so how long is this, was just an over night silly thought

Thais have know about this plan for months

Yes the army needs to be impartial,

but treason is treason no matter how you look at it

There was no treason. Treason is defined as "the betrayal of one's own country by waging war against it or by consciously or purposely acting to aid its enemies". One could easily argue that the military personnel who aided and abetted the Khmer Roucge in the 1990's were guilty of treason as the Khmer rouge were technically enemies of Thailand. The person implicated in this specific event has broached the subject of sovereignty, of independence for a region which is very different than treason.

In Scotland, there are those who support independence. They are not guilty of treason against the UK. In Texas, USA there is a populist movement that advocates independence and seceding from the Union. They are not guilty of treason against the USA.In Quebec, and Alberta Canada there are groups who advocate independence for their respective provinces. They are not guilty of treason against Canada.In Issan, we have one man who has allegedly advocated independence for Issan. It is not treason. If his idea has no merit, it will be rejected by the people.

BTW, one thing I learnt from TVF is that an individual should never own or invest in Thailand anything other than what he is prepared to lose or walk away from. It is the most valuable advice I have received.

Edited March 9, 2014 by geriatrickid

[JRSoul]

If I were to advocate assassinating Yingluk (as an example only, I do not advocate any such action) would that be acceptable because it is only a shallow idea without support, expressed by an emotional man who feels that his southern based family has been discriminated against by this government?

Which laws are OK to break because it is done by government supporters, and will it still be OK when done by their opponents?

The shallowness of your post is simply amazing. You're comparing apples to oranges: homicide vs thoughtcrime.

As I was advocating (theoretically) and not committing the offense, why are they not equal? Is that too deep for you?

[Halion]

I think that this article is far more pretentious than the actions of the Army and is typical of the myopic red ideology.

If no one in authority takes a hard stance against suggestions of secession then we will end up with similar problems that we already have in the South.

Yinglucks caretaker government should have been the first to condemn such rhetoric, however ,she was more worried about sensitizing her loyal lemmings and losing their support.

[djjamie]

The secession proposal from Wuthipong Kotthammakhun, aka "Ko Tee", reflects an emotionally charged man. His feelings may have stemmed from the perceived unfair treatment of his fellow red shirts,

Yes, "perceived" being the operative word in this case. This man typifies what the red shirts stand for. Violence, unlawfulness and an inability to know right from wrong. When you share traits like that everything that happens to you or your kind is a "perceived" feeling. Break the law. It is perceived that justice is biased. Shot someone and then get shot. It is "perceived" that the person attacked you first. Don't hold the majority anymore. It is "perceived" that we do and will use the minority to further our cause.

Don't forget as well that violence and intimidation is the language of the inarticulate and "Ko Tee" is a sample of a much larger narrow supporter base of the minority that mirror his fanatical approach to secession. Of course with succession being against the law this has not stopped a few radicals from preaching their UDD cancerous drivel even at the behest of that other fanatic, Tida. When the UDD dance on the wrong side of the law so regularly they a/ become very good dancers and b/ this drive by "Ko Tee" becomes a normal scenario for some. Well, some that refuse to follow the rule of law i.e UDD supporters. (yes, yes, fighting for democracy LOL)

​"Ko Tee" is showing classic signs of a bigoted minority voice now. A "sour puss" if you will. They don't hold a mandate, don't have the majority and have actually retreated to the north of Thailand where they are ensured a welcome as the intimidation and threats of violence against anyone that has different beliefs will be swift and brutal and the water expert that knows the water level in the Mekong in Mukdahan and tells people to be more efficient, through her silence encourages these thuggish antics by the minority.

It really is time to look at the facts and listen to the voice of the majority and accept it. Though when the voice of the majority spoke against the amnesty bill that never stopped the PTP. So why start to listen to them now.

"Ko Tee" needs to accept he is not the majority anymore. Acceptance doesn't mean resignation "Ko Tee" and UDD supporters, acceptance means understanding that something is what it is and that, yes, there is a way through it. I suggest the way through it is removing the unelected leader that is accused of terrorism, accused of mass murder and is a convicted criminal fugitive. People like that obviously don't bode well with the electorate anymore. They are waking up to this fact.

Finally "Ko Tee" I pity you and hope you find what your looking for as long as what you're looking for is not against the law then peace be with you my pitiful friend.

[pisico]

How does the Thai army excuse away and rationalize that they stood by and did nothing in December 2008 for a week when the PAD commandeered the Bangkok airport and closed down all traffic for nine!! days and stranded hundreds of thousands of tourists? How does the general view the army's culpability in this most serious breach of Thai security?

The rainmaker in Thailand since 1938 (read about Pibunsongkhram and his 12 mandates) has been the Thai Army.

Remember 2006? For whatever reasons the coup was not in keeping with the tenets of Democracy but, but... Yellows will cry: Thaksin was a bad boy!

Dialogue between 2 Farangs:

Did you lose any money, land or chattels?

No, but he was a bad boy and I am a Liberal Democrat. It's a matter of principles, you know?

Dialogue between 2 Farangs:

Did you lose any money, land or chattels?

Yes, the mongrel stole billions of baht that could have been used to improve the life of my Thai family. Is blatant theft and an attempt to install a dictatorship not enough?

Mongrel? Many in highest of places are not born Thai. Mark Abhisit, for instance among others. So... you using the term mongrel can get you in sticky situations. Know the history of the country, please.

Dictatorship? Since before Suriothai, down to Pibun, autocracy and absolutism forms of governments are the norm in Thailand.

Your statement of money stolen (which wasn't. Ill gotten, yes. Read about the GSM convention.) that could have been used to improve the life of your Thai family is sheer speculation.

What of the money siphoned from the Palm Oil Scam during Abhisit's tenure or the billions in land fraud in 1995 when Suthep was Minister of Agriculture and was forced to resign lest being indicted for fraud? All that money could have been used to improve the life of many of Thai families. But... I guess since it was not Mr. T the one doing the theft, it's OK.

What do you think?

Ad hominem will not be a civil way to continue addressing this issue. Don't you agree?

[Scamper]

Who is the writer of this article trying to kid ? This is an outrageous opinion article, and it flies very squarely in the face of the facts. Chalerm will be laminating this article and framing it. The writer of this article should look at the tape of the UDD rally on February 23. On that stage stands Thida, Jutuporn, Nattawut, former minister of agriculture, and Charupong, former interior minister. All endorsed the UDD platform that called for armed readiness, denigrated the independent agencies, and promoted secession. Everyone has seen it. Not only that, but we're had rallies, banners, the calls of red shirt radio, interviews with the press, addresses from Chiang Mai, and every one of these people stands by what they say. Not only that, but Ko Tee has now openly defied Prayuth and the banners are going up. Why does this writer publish this anonymously ? The Nation has some excellent writers, and most articles are under the banner of a writer or even two. This is so outside the mainstream of editorials it ought to have been signed. This article is a disgrace and a disservice to the informed.

[fab4]

If I were to advocate assassinating Yingluk (as an example only, I do not advocate any such action) would that be acceptable because it is only a shallow idea without support, expressed by an emotional man who feels that his southern based family has been discriminated against by this government?

Which laws are OK to break because it is done by government supporters, and will it still be OK when done by their opponents?

Suthep has already done that, on stage,

But Suthep’s rhetoric regarding the children of his enemies is less than righteous. He has repeatedly invoked a 10-year-old boy — Yingluck’s son, nicknamed “Pipe” — in his lacerating condemnations of the premier. His most recent tirade imagined an ominous future for the prime minister’s son.

“In the days ahead, your child will become an orphan and he will curse you,” Suthep said to raucous applause. The premier, he said, will soon be locked away and “your bastard son, Pipe, will surely be abandoned.”

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/140225/thais-bring-children-the-insurrection-despite-rec

Comments, anyone?

[Artisi]

The Army needs to be impartial, as any more actions by them, seen as siding with the anti-government movement will seriously strain any possible role they may play in ending the current situation without violence, they will never be seen as the protectors of the nation, to much Thai blood on their hands!

Cheers

Funny that many people would see that protecting unarmed civilians from attacks by armed militants as a principal role of the military. That you see that as "siding" with them only indicates your own loyalties, and lack of morality.

The army will be well remembered for their assistance during the floods. Not sure but I never heard of them putting their name on donated goods.

Who would ever do such a thing? Oh! that's right a certain fugitive criminal organised that - but of course that's Ok as he has no morals anyway so it doesn't count.

[Artisi]

While the Army is set on going after the separatist red shirts, should they also be rounding up the people 's council and Suthep"s thugs for the same charges. they are advocating the overthrow of an elected government and the installation of an unelected body.

What elected government, are you referring to the interim government by any chance?

[Mackie]

If I were to advocate assassinating Yingluk (as an example only, I do not advocate any such action) would that be acceptable because it is only a shallow idea without support, expressed by an emotional man who feels that his southern based family has been discriminated against by this government?

Which laws are OK to break because it is done by government supporters, and will it still be OK when done by their opponents?

Suthep has already done that, on stage,

But Suthep’s rhetoric regarding the children of his enemies is less than righteous. He has repeatedly invoked a 10-year-old boy — Yingluck’s son, nicknamed “Pipe” — in his lacerating condemnations of the premier. His most recent tirade imagined an ominous future for the prime minister’s son.

“In the days ahead, your child will become an orphan and he will curse you,” Suthep said to raucous applause. The premier, he said, will soon be locked away and “your bastard son, Pipe, will surely be abandoned.”

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/140225/thais-bring-children-the-insurrection-despite-rec

Comments, anyone?

I think everyone here condemned him for hate speech. However, it's only rhetoric. This is the real thing.

Thailand Protests RED SHIRT LEADER Darb Daeng HATE SPEECH

http://www.anti-semitism.net/hate-speech-2/thailand-protests-red-shirt-leader-darb-daeng-hate-speech-video.php

By: Thai Channel Today

See the rest here:

Thailand Protests RED SHIRT LEADER Darb Daeng HATE SPEECH – Video

Any condemnation? Has anyone been arrested? Any comments? I thought so. Wild celebration instead. Get a grip.

[Lupatria]

In a real democracy the army is responsible for one purpose only: protecting the country and its citizen. However, if you let them run banks and enterprises and take over lucrative business meant for the private sector and mingle in politics, you will probably create a force beyond control. The army should simply stay out of politics at all.

[wolfmanjack]

If I were to advocate assassinating Yingluk (as an example only, I do not advocate any such action) would that be acceptable because it is only a shallow idea without support, expressed by an emotional man who feels that his southern based family has been discriminated against by this government?

Which laws are OK to break because it is done by government supporters, and will it still be OK when done by their opponents?

Suthep has already done that, on stage,

But Suthep’s rhetoric regarding the children of his enemies is less than righteous. He has repeatedly invoked a 10-year-old boy — Yingluck’s son, nicknamed “Pipe” — in his lacerating condemnations of the premier. His most recent tirade imagined an ominous future for the prime minister’s son.

“In the days ahead, your child will become an orphan and he will curse you,” Suthep said to raucous applause. The premier, he said, will soon be locked away and “your bastard son, Pipe, will surely be abandoned.”

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/140225/thais-bring-children-the-insurrection-despite-rec

Comments, anyone?

As I and many others have said before and been ignored by some posters, everyone on both sides that are breaking the law should be fined or jailed. That includes suthep along with most of ptp leaders and red shirt leaders.

What I do not get is so many use past crimes by some to justify current crimes by others. Suthep has charges against him already so why do some keep using him to justify not bringing charges against the reds?

Bring charges against them all.