Missing plane highlights Phuket's stolen passport trade

[Jimjim]

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On an earlier trip to Phuket in August last year Mr Maraldi had his passport stolen from a car rental agency.

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It would be interesting to know the name of this car rental agency that asks its customers to leave the passports with them and then has the passports stolen from them. I have a feeling that the FBI will be looking into this. How many passports were stolen? Did passport theft from that agency happen often? Is there any record of other passports stolen from this agency having subsequently been used for travel? Etc.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, my first speculative thought was that the car rental agency could have possibly done that often and then sold the passports.

[rickirs]

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I'm surprised there isn't an international system for national authorities to inform airlines about stolen passports and prevent people using them from buying tickets.

There is such a system but the airline has to access the system to be effective. Airlines other than American airlines have been very lax in doing so however, perhaps due to some minor need for IT resources.

[steveyinasia]

I'm surprised there isn't an international system for national authorities to inform airlines about stolen passports and prevent people using them from buying tickets.

This was my thought?... Any time you fly in or out af a modern airport (Like Kuala Lumpur) you have your passport number scanned or punched into a computer?... Or a photo taken to compare with the entry photo?... Wouldn't there be a international database of lost passports?...

There is an international lost passport register, it just does not seem to be globally connected to any other systems.

[empireboy]

Many people doing a "Visa Run" hand over their passports to the group organiser and lose sight of them for up to an hour... long enough to make high quality copies of them by anyone with the right gear... Sadly we can't easily live our lives with what once would have been considered just common trust.

[MrWorldwide]

About the only countries in the region where I trust officials are Japan and Singapore : even that trust may be naïve. Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, PI all have unfortunate reputations when it comes to people in uniform.

[steveyinasia]

possible that some tourists sell their passport to raise some holliday cash for big bucks ?

car rental that stole his passport? why would you hand over your passport anyway , aka not legal

Very difficult to rent any vehicle in Thailand without leaving your passport as security.

Not so if you rent from a reputable company - they will want a copy and sometimes just take a picture of it. Never a need to leave your passport with them. If they ask for it then decline and find another vendor.

Definitely agree here, I have rental cars on several occasions from both big name companies and smaller rental agencies in Chiang Mai, I have never been asked to leave my passport. If the agent insists, go somewhere else as keeping your passport safe is one of your main responsibilities for holding one.

[soalbundy]

Apparently the two men who acquired the passports booked their flights together so it would appear to be an organised operation in Thailand.

Regarding the flight latest reports say that five people who checked in did not board the aircraft and their luggage was later removed.

couldn't leave, had their passports stolen

[david555]

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last time on my return flight BKK&gt;AMS&gt;BKK (so return to BKK from Amsterdam) by boarding i asked the KLM stewardess "you do not check passport or visa anymore ? she answerd me that checkin did that already ..... my answer and situation ; i did checkin online and did automatic bagage deposit ( boarding print machine )and allowed so to go direct to gate ..... nobody saw my passport or visa , only she checked my boarding pass ....she was surprised and look worried and go ask a higher one about it ...

How can you go to the gate without passing immigration?
After you deposited your bags in the automatic baggage deposit machines, you need to pass immigration before you can reach the gate.
The automatic baggage deposit machines are near the check-in desks. If your visa would needs to be checked (you want to stay longer than 30 days), I think somebody would come to do that.

Same when you enter the Netherlands.
They used to have automatic immigration ports, where you have to scan your passport yourself. What you don't see in the guy behind the computer screen in another room that compared the photo of the camera nearby with the photo in your passport. He'll not push the button to let you pass if they don't look the same.

About somebody come to check passport after bagage drop ......nobody ....just could go to border controle and after to gate ..., 1 year visa non o anyway in possesion , but airline peoplewas at fault by not checking Passport by boarding ,probably the gap is now closed (i hope) just they did not think by the automatic drop bagage an d online checkin .

And normally Schiphol is a quit controle freaking airport , that's why my surprise ....

As you should read before the whole topic , you could see i am ONLY talking about the airline staf , ofcourse i passed border controle ...., but on airside could be a change of boarding pass and person to boarding , unless by boarding checking passport as before Always have seen doiing to me by several airlines ...i am not talking of border controle (however ....)

Edited March 10, 2014 by david555

[Bkungbank]

The italian guy rent a car in Phuket and deposit his passort there after returning the car his passport was missing under care of the rental car company,

usally impostant document are kept safely this are not drop and lost in hotel room, so why it has been lost when under this company is a big questions nobody can walk inside and take out his pasport . I saw one farang rent a motobike and his bike lostin Phuket the owner refuse to return his passport and he has to catch a flight back home ,can see his eyes getting wet in this case.

[IAMHERE]

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

Did you not understand that these two in particular were stolen in Phuket ??? Perhaps thousands are stolen every year but so far only these two stolen in Phuket went down in a missing Airplane.

But, I'd suspect some car rental agent is dead already. Time to round up the usual suspects now.

[transam]

I hope those of you that leave your passport at "ride" rentals have taken note that it really is daft practice.

[IAMHERE]

Okay, if the passports were 'lost' or 'stolen' they'll be no need for these guys to sweat, when the FBI comes a calling.

You would rather be questioned by the Thai authorities ? For sure I'd stay the heck out of any muslim country, they have questionable questioning methods.

[IAMHERE]

Thailand has simply been dragged into this because the country is big magnet for undesirables due to being one of the world’s most popular tourist destinations and having weak un-enforced laws to go along with it.

Perhaps predominantly corruption is to blame, but now it's a prime opportunity for the International media to beat up on the likes of Phuket and highlight all the weaknesses as a consequence to this event.

If these shortcomings are not brought to attention, then how would anyone expect them to improve. Of course, many in Thailand don't desire improvement, status quo is okay for some.

[Cadan]

Excellent point on boarding planes with stoles passports... You can find anything on the internet so it should not be that complicated to have a database of stolen passports to have access too... People on the list should be checked thoroughly and explain... For those people selling passports to get quick cash are scumbags... give em 15-20 years jail time not negotiable

[IAMHERE]

What agency in Pattaya sold the tickets ? The name and address please. I want to take a selfy in front of it for my facebook page.

[IAMHERE]

Back in 2003, Thailand was under scrutiny following a high profile terrorist, that had acquired a dodgy passport and then used it to fly around Asia. (Hannibal? if memory serves me right)

The result was a crackdown, that caused lots of repercussions for expats here at the time. It was popular to use visa agents to (illegally) just take your passport for a run over the border, normally Sadao. These services where advertised freely and openly, to my knowledge some still advertise a similar service now.

The ensuing fracas was hundreds if not thousands, had been using these services for years stamp (B131 amongst others) was a firm favourite showing up in passports.The governments response eventually was to state that all that had that stamp, had committed fraud

Some had a genuine stamp showing the wanted numbers, some not, it didn't seem to matter after a while as all where grilled, some deported as a result and others locked up for a while, it all depended on what border post you where presenting to and if you could show it was all credible.

I expect there will be a similar crackdown this time after this latest tragic incident.

Hope they only punish those with stolen passports, but TIT

[mowgus]

Why the FBI? Malaysian plane, Vietnam airspace, Chinese destination, stolen passports were not American..... Only reason I can see the FBI getting involved is if they had some previous knowledge of something or they want a vacation in Phuket NTSB, that would make sense.

[patayayaya]

patong is the hub of stolen everything

[Lupatria]

When is the last time any good news at all came out of Thailand?

Think hard and don't blame it on Altzheimer!

Edited March 10, 2014 by Lupatria

[Benmart]

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

I didn't read it as Phuket bashing at all. Had these particular passports been stolen from any other location, it most likely would have been reported in the story as such.

I wouldn't read between the lines on any of this. Easy Does It.

[Fat Haggis]

Why the FBI? Malaysian plane, Vietnam airspace, Chinese destination, stolen passports were not American..... Only reason I can see the FBI getting involved is if they had some previous knowledge of something or they want a vacation in Phuket NTSB, that would make sense.

I thought the same thing as well, but I believe there were US Nationals also on the flight

[Falcon]

When traveling internationally and arriving at the receiving countries airport, the immigration officer has 2 options when putting in the arriving passengers details, 1. They can simply input the details of the passport in to the computer to register the pp holders details as arriving, or, 2. They can input the details and access the Interpol database. This database lists all reported lost and stolen passports which have been reported to the issuing country and subsequently then reported to Interpol to be included in the said database. Some countries do this automatically, others don't and it's then up to the immigration officer which way he/she goes.

[Tomtomtom69]

possible that some tourists sell their passport to raise some holliday cash for big bucks ?

car rental that stole his passport? why would you hand over your passport anyway , aka not legal

Very difficult to rent any vehicle in Thailand without leaving your passport as security.

Not so if you rent from a reputable company - they will want a copy and sometimes just take a picture of it. Never a need to leave your passport with them. If they ask for it then decline and find another vendor.

Definitely agree here, I have rental cars on several occasions from both big name companies and smaller rental agencies in Chiang Mai, I have never been asked to leave my passport. If the agent insists, go somewhere else as keeping your passport safe is one of your main responsibilities for holding one.

Car rental agencies, whether Thai or foreign do NOT and I repeat do NOT keep passports as collateral. While I have my own car now and therefore don't need to rent anymore, in the past I have rented from Avis, Budget, Thai rent-a-car, Lanna car rent (Lampang and Chiang Mai) and Bangkok Hiway car rent. The latter two are Thai companies. While Bangkok hiway car rent has rather surly female staff (and they even accept cash and prefer cash, whereas the international companies ONLY accept credit cards), even they [bangkok hiway car rent] only make copies of your passport after which they return your passport to you. Under no circumstances would any legitimate car rental company keep or attempt to keep your passport.

As I have mentioned in another post, please name and shame any car rental companies that keep your passport. However, as of now, I can't think of any. Although anyone who rents from a fly-by-night operator rather than an international company like Avis, Hertz, Sixt or even an established local one with many branches around the country such as Thai rent-a-car is an idiot. There is no excuse for not renting from professional companies. Besides, they are usually cheaper than the local ones anyway, not to mention that you get better service, insurance in the event of an accident and they can even replace your car in case something goes wrong anywhere in the country. Local operators running out of a shack in Phuket with 3 cars that were written off in accidents elsewhere and then repaired to be used as rental cars do NOT offer such services (quite obviously) and should not be trusted under any circumstances.

However, it's a whole different story with local motorcycle and scooter rentals who usually demand a passport as collateral. In another report I read that the Italian who had his passport stolen actually rented a bike rather than a car...again another example of rumours flying around not knowing which one is factual reporting and which one isn't. Given this new information, I strongly suspect that he actually rented a motorcycle rather than a car.

[chrisinth]

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It's pretty clear the international AIRLINES should require ALL countries they fly into

to have a 'direct automatic check of passport names with the Interpol Data stolen passport base'

as S.O.P.

It wouldn't be hard, a link to interpol data base on check in or booking system computers.

if the name is flagged on a booking computer, someone can be detailed to check them hands on.

If it is at a check in counter for a same day purchase, they can paste the name into the Interpole link

and see if it spits out a match. These guys should NEVER have been on this flight and only

a collapse of the system or a ignoring of the system is responsible for this.

Really each airlines central booking system should be updating daily to the interpol data base

automatically and flagging name matches without hands on from check in staff.

This would prevent, names and itineraries from being logged in an international central data base,

but allow names to be flagged locally.

International flights may be under a set of group rules and each country may have it's laws,

but if the airlines say we don't fly here unless you are checking, then the countries will get behind it.

It benefits the airlines because they lose money big time on every flight down and on every

incident reported of lapsed security such as this one, terrorism in play or not.

The airline booking system is one thing, but you would think that the database would be in the immigration passport control system as a priority.

That said, I will be the first to admit that I don't understand the protocol countries would have to adopt to gain access to this, and how it could be abused.

[Tomtomtom69]

"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

I didn't read it as Phuket bashing at all. Had these particular passports been stolen from any other location, it most likely would have been reported in the story as such.

I wouldn't read between the lines on any of this. Easy Does It.

Agreed. Although maybe if the lazy authorities got off their asses and actually tried to rid Thailand of this scum, this image could be improved. However, it seems to me that the authorities are somehow secretly proud of the bad reputation that Thailand (or in this case Phuket) has when it comes to scams, stolen passports and all sorts of criminal activities. Kind of like..."hey, at least we're no pushovers". Or..."look how cool we are...we're the hub of stolen documents!"

It's seriously lame, but clearly not enough effort is being made to clean up this mess and it's appalling and shameful.

Is it any wonder that nearly all foreigners, especially those who have never been to Thailand continue to associate the Kingdom with sex, prostitutes, drugs, corruption, theft, stolen documents etc.?

[atyclb]

Given the overtly corrupt and pliable society it may be normal for a high % of flights in the region especially involving thailand origination passengers to contain passengers with shady passports.

[chrisinth]

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"Hundreds of passports are lost or stolen on Phuket each year, raising fears they could fall into the hands of criminal or terrorist networks."

Thousands of passports are lost or stolen all over the world each year.

Why single out Phuket?

Where there is concentration of tourists, crime and thieving is very common.

Stop, bashing Pucket.

Thailand has always been know for being a hub for human trafficking. Wheither it's Phuket or Chang Mai, it's irrelevant. Most of the counterfeit documents presented to airlines and immigration inspectors have had some connection with Thailand.

I could agree to a certain level on your first statement that Thailand has been portrayed as a hub for human trafficking, mostly by the media and NGO's.

However, it is your second statement that would give me concern. If my reading is correct, you are stating that on a global picture, most of the counterfeit documents presented to airlines and immigration have a connection with Thailand?

I would be extremely interested in the source of that information.

Just as an aside, I don't think there is too much counterfeiting of travel documents done by Thais in Thailand. It is a very complicated process that requires the correct paper, stamps, copying software and machinery, etc. IMHO, you shouldn't credit people with something that is only here-say.................. width=20 alt=wai.gif>

Well I suggest you go and watch the youtube video that actually fingers Bangkok as the hub of counterfeit documents including passports, US driving licenses and just about anything else you care to name.

These are pretty much openly traded in the backstreets and the police do not clamp down on it, because they are only interested in clamping down of infringement of their own trademark laws, and have no concern for the rest.

TIT, They are only interested in looking after their own industries and **** the rest attitude.

Now they are being exposed and the Thai government are going to look even more dubious than they already do, as being completely ineffective as well as the police that they control.

You can probably find the fake document center next to the child porn DVD center that police casually allow on the streets of BKK that would raise a lot of eyebrows across the world, but hey.... TIT.

Counterfeiting a passport is slightly different than copying a DVD or putting a logo on a shirt. Different also from a KSR false diploma or degree.

Seriously, "pretty much openly traded in the backstreets"??

I would put money on the fact that you will not get a counterfeited passport in any backstreet in this country..................

And if you did, I would put even more money on the fact that you wouldn't make it through passport control, either exiting the country or entering your country of destination......................

[chooka]

Why the FBI? Malaysian plane, Vietnam airspace, Chinese destination, stolen passports were not American..... Only reason I can see the FBI getting involved is if they had some previous knowledge of something or they want a vacation in Phuket NTSB, that would make sense.

I thought the same thing as well, but I believe there were US Nationals also on the flight

I read somewhere if there is 3 or more U.S citizens involved then they can intervene. Australia had 6 on board but they are not interfering in the investigation just providing RAAF aircraft for the search.

[NoBrainer]

The Thai governments policy aids the passport scam in Thailand. They have enacted a law that says that all foreigners must carry their passport with them at all times while in the Kingdom. In some ways you could view the government as being complicit to the problem.

This law contributes to the problem. Persons passports should be safely locked away at their place of residence, or their hotel, not in their shorts while they are sun tanning at the beach, or in their back pocket while they are bar hopping.

A photocopy should be sufficient for most purposes. If there is a good reason to show the actual passport, then it can be retrieved when required.

Change the law and this problem will decrease significantly. I am surprised that all of the foreign embassies do not get together and put the pressure on to get this outdated policy changed. It is also a big headache for them, as the foreigners that lose their passports run to the embassy for assistance, using up their time and resources.

[Tomtomtom69]

The Thai governments policy aids the passport scam in Thailand. They have enacted a law that says that all foreigners must carry their passport with them at all times while in the Kingdom. In some ways you could view the government as being complicit to the problem.

This law contributes to the problem. Persons passports should be safely locked away at their place of residence, or their hotel, not in their shorts while they are sun tanning at the beach, or in their back pocket while they are bar hopping.

A photocopy should be sufficient for most purposes. If there is a good reason to show the actual passport, then it can be retrieved when required.

Change the law and this problem will decrease significantly. I am surprised that all of the foreign embassies do not get together and put the pressure on to get this outdated policy changed. It is also a big headache for them, as the foreigners that lose their passports run to the embassy for assistance, using up their time and resources.

I agree but like everything in Thailand, this is flexible. I don't care what the law says because I don't carry my passport unless I know I will need it for something like crossing a border or for identification at a bank or motor vehicle bureau etc. The chances of being asked for a passport on a random inspection are remote if you're a westerner, Japanese or Korean etc. I speak fluent Thai and all my interactions with the police and authorities here have been quite pleasant. Everything is negotiable here, except maybe if you've committed a serious offense but even then there is often flexibility with regards to the penalties etc. The police treat everything like a game. I was pulled over at a known checkpoint late in the evening where my driver license details were recorded and I mentioned that I had driven back from Cambodia (actually maybe I shouldn't have mentioned this as that's why I was pulled over but hey, I didn't have anything to hide). They did seem to be pulling over everyone there - the police then made a joke and asked if I had any bombs in my car such as C4. Haha! Only in Thailand (and Cambodia) do the police have such a sense of humor!

Another case in point is the minor issue of traffic offenses. No matter what the signs say, what the law says...I laugh at the prospect of "getting caught" for speeding, driving on red plates at night or anything else. In general, i try to drive in a reasonable manner and don't need a law to tell me that drink driving is a stupid idea because I would never drink drive. Not because I might get caught, but because the likelihood of being involved in an accident and being seriously injured or worse, or being involved in an accident where somebody else is seriously injured is too great. No matter the hospital or state of medical care in a given country, it's always better to prevent accidents than getting involved in one. However, my point is that when it comes to more minor offenses, some of which would be considered quite serious in western countries like speeding at greater than 50km/h over the limit or failing to stop at a stop sign etc. And yes I also act with discretion on that point, but I'm just saying that it's easily possible to get away with speeding at 180km/h on the expressway when the posted limit is 80km/h. As a result, I haven't paid a single Baht in years because I simply talk to the police nicely, we share a laugh and I'm on my way. It seems that the police know full well that a 100 Baht fine is not the slightest incentive to change behavior so until or unless the Thai police start imposing $150 fines that can only be bargained down with difficulty like their Vietnamese counterparts nothing much will change. And most Thai drivers know this.

The passport thing is similar - but that's because Thailand operates in a parallel way. There's a Thailand that Thai speaking expats and Thais know and then there's the eternal tourist Thailand that tourists and expats with almost no knowledge of Thai know - a random foreigner being stopped and asked for a passport and being aggressive, not knowing any Thai etc may be treated harshly whereas a Thai speaking expat wouldn't likely even be asked for anything. I operate in the former and it's quite a different world from the bars and pubs of Sukhumvit and Khao San road.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Tomtomtom69