Thailand exposed as crime hub over MH370 stolen passports

[Benmart]

why oh why do the Thai police love to get onto the camera? what a farce

Most likely for the same reason you see all those larger than life posters of police Colonels and Generals all over Thailand. I suppose the theory is, if you advertise and put your mug-shot for the public to see, then that equates to effective policing. It also may serve to let the less educated know who is in charge and their ultimate benefactor.

It fits right in with the rest of the Thai smoke and mirrors approach to policing. Examples are police boxes that aren't staffed or have reflective film so you are unable to see what they are doing or not doing inside; roadside police stands at intersections (the ones that look like oversized police helmets) that are unstaffed and in turn used to provide shelter for moto-taxi drivers.

I will leave it to other posters to provide more examples since I don't want to hog the forum.

[Radar501]

Pattaya police chief Pol Colonel Suphachai Phuikaewkham said the bookings were made online, initially through Grand Horizon Travel, which contacted Six Stars Travel, which later purchased the air tickets. This meant it was impossible to identify the people who made the bookings, or where they did this, as requests for the bookings were made online, the officer said.

Okay, now I'm really confused.

If a booking was made on-line, doesn't that mean a credit card number was needed to make payment? It doesn't matter how many re-bookings or middle agents were used to throw off the scent, coz the electronic paper trail can always be traced back to the card number, and, therefore, the cardholder.

Criminal gangs deal in hard cash for that very reason.

Anyone have a better understanding of this??

Edited March 11, 2014 by Radar501

[Lupatria]

A mandatory European passport with biometric scan cost around 4.000 Thb, it was half price for the former ones. Value for money? Not here, as they turn out just to be stamp pads.

I guess you are joking, or out of touch, I just renewed my UK passport -

[Cost

You’ll have to pay a fee for your passport and a courier fee of £19.86. The courier fee pays for your passport and supporting documents to be sent back to you securely.

Passport type Passport fee Total to pay (including courier fee) Adult standard 32-page passport £128.00 £147.86 Adult jumbo 48-page passport £154.50 £174.36

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y/thailand/renewing_new/adult ]

Plus 1400 baht Courier to UK

Plus 1000 baht address certification and renew driving licence with new address

Plus 800 baht translation of licence

So where you get 4000 baht from is a mystery to me, unless a UK Passport is NOT a European Passport.

German Passport for person over 24 years of age €139,-

Extra for passport with 48 pages € 22,-

Extra for express delivery within 2 – 3 weeks € 32,-

€ 193,- = 8,660.05 Thb

source:

http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/bangkok/de/04/Passstelle/Reisepass-Erwachsene.html

Looks like you are lucky and the UK is not that much part of the EU (or just a little out of touch with it)

[godden]

Thailand is a basket case for all the world to see, do business with Thailand at your peril.

[unanimosity]

But entering Western countries with a stolen Western passport "is not easy," said Ahmed Salah Hashim, Associate Professor at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.

He gives credence to the theory that terrorists may have targeted MH370, particularly since the two stolen passports were under Interpol surveillance.

Thailand does not check passports against Interpol's Stolen and Lost Travel Documents (SLTD) database -- which has more than 40 million entries -- a senior Thai immigration police officer told AFP.

The international police organisation has urged countries to screen all passports "for the sake of innocent passengers".

So Thailand does not even check passports against the Interpol list, great security. It appears they don't even check their own data base.

And for anybody caring to pay attention, it suggests that the tourism numbers are baseless without this and other fundamental documentation.

[SOTIRIOS]

....foreigners have to produce....and surrender their passports at 'the drop of a hat'....

...one was supposedly 'lost' or 'stolen' when renting a car.....

...passports are NOT legal tender or collateral.....a photocopy should suffice.....

...(and I have never heard of the 'places of business' where passports have been frequently 'lost' or 'stolen'...ever being investigated or pursued)....

....just another 'national industry'..an offshoot of the tourism industry.........going unchecked.....????

[unanimosity]

"...... Pol Colonel Suphachai Phuikaewkham said the bookings were made online,........... This meant it was impossible to identify the people who made the bookings, or where they did this, as requests for the bookings were made online, the officer said."

Okay, now I'm really confused.

If a booking was made on-line, doesn't that mean a credit card number was needed to make payment? It doesn't matter how many re-bookings or middle agents were used to throw off the scent, coz the electronic paper trail can always be traced back to the card number, and, therefore, the cardholder.

Criminal gangs deal in hard cash for that very reason.

Anyone have a better understanding of this??

Didn't the OP say the tickets were purchased with baht? Of course, they could have used Thai credit cards. Crooks and terrorists may be likely to pay a bar girl a premium to make the purchase online for them to cover their tracks. The name on the cc and the name on the ticket do not have to agree, that is a fact.

[Keesters]

So wouldn't it be better then NOT to carry around your passport as ID as required by law. A passport left, securely, at home or in your hotel is surely less likely to be stolen or lost.

[johnlandy]

Oh well.

Thailand covering itself in glory again. The reputation slips just a little more.

The reputation was never particularly good in the first place

[thhMan]

I think the real injustice done here, was the reporting.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pattaya police chief Pol Colonel Suphachai Phuikaewkham said the bookings were made online, initially through Grand Horizon Travel, which contacted Six Stars Travel, which later purchased the air tickets. This meant it was impossible to identify the people who made the bookings, or where they did this, as requests for the bookings were made online, the officer said.

Obviously, he's not reading today's various news accounts that have officials from the involved travel agencies talking about the tickets having been requested by an Iranian named "Mr. Ali" and then paid for in cash in Phuket by a "friend" of Mr. Ali, a supposed Pattaya businessman who frequently travels between Iran and Pattaya.

The BKK Post today is reporting that Ali sent an email from Iran originally asking for the reservations to be made, according to the travel agency. AFAIK, those travel agencies don't have any capacity for direct online ticket purchases by passengers. Thus no credit cards were involved.

Perhaps this is the start of a new TAT promotional campaign: Thailand, the HUB of all your fraudulent passport needs!

Edited March 11, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[techboy]

"Thailand has been used by some international terrorist groups as a zone of operation, to raise funds or to plan attacks," said Rommel Banlaoi, an analyst on terrorism in South-East Asia.

Surprised? Not at all... What are the root causes? Exactly the same and for the road accidents, the scams and other major problems that have been increasing in Thailand for the last decade:

No standard + No control + No safety + No authority + No implementation or respect of laws and regulations + widespread corruption = Total laxism and anarchy!

it does not mean that Thailand directly supports or funds Terrorism. Of course not. But indirectly because of laxism and corruption, the country has become a major playground for all kind of mafias and terrorists. Remember a few weeks ago, this story about fruits and veggies sold containing formalin? One seller was saying that is only concern was to increase profit!!! Somehow this is the same root cause. Here in Thailand, money can buy absolutely everything. There is absolutely no (more) moral and common sense. So, of course, it reaches a point where a total failed State leads to all kind of abuses and extremes; from road fatalities (Thailand rank 2nd in the World), food full of pesticides and chemicals (No law, no control), widespread tourist scams and the latest, Terrorism activities.

Actually I am very surprised that a major terrorist attack has not happened yet in Thailand. This country is such a failed State managed by a bunch of clowns.

Most probably just a matter of time...

We want to say "WAKE UP THAILAND", but after saying this for 10 years, there is no more hope.

Blah! Blah! Blah! Thailand has a friendly and open policy for visiting and immigration. And foreigners can move around inside the country without being harassed. People can go about their business without the authorities sticking their nose in at every turn. Unfortunately this also makes it a comfortable environment for criminals. Any tightening up and you would be screeching like a bird in a cat's mouth.

[The Fatman]

I don't get to Bangkok often so I can't say for sure how many people might lose or otherwise part company with a passport thereI know of one back in October but that is about all - no doubt it goes on though. I have been in KL a few times over the last 12 months and only on the last visit did I not encounter anyone heading off to the tourist police or raising the issue with hotel management that a passport had either gone or been lifted from a pocket so Thailand is far from the only place where this goes on. Aussie passports have some form of chip in them which can do a "3D" comparison between cameras in the Immigration area and the passport - mine often does not work (last one, old style) rarely scanned properly so I have a bit of a jinx thing going on and now tend to find it quicker to go down the immigration queue than through the scanner anyway. That said that or some form of biometrics in passports or ID cards, where used (Malaysia is one such place), needs to brought in quickly and these problems with reduce considerably.

[toonsai]

"Thailand has been used by some international terrorist groups as a zone of operation, to raise funds or to plan attacks," said Rommel Banlaoi, an analyst on terrorism in South-East Asia.

Surprised? Not at all... What are the root causes? Exactly the same and for the road accidents, the scams and other major problems that have been increasing in Thailand for the last decade:

No standard + No control + No safety + No authority + No implementation or respect of laws and regulations + widespread corruption = Total laxism and anarchy!

it does not mean that Thailand directly supports or funds Terrorism. Of course not. But indirectly because of laxism and corruption, the country has become a major playground for all kind of mafias and terrorists. Remember a few weeks ago, this story about fruits and veggies sold containing formalin? One seller was saying that is only concern was to increase profit!!! Somehow this is the same root cause. Here in Thailand, money can buy absolutely everything. There is absolutely no (more) moral and common sense. So, of course, it reaches a point where a total failed State leads to all kind of abuses and extremes; from road fatalities (Thailand rank 2nd in the World), food full of pesticides and chemicals (No law, no control), widespread tourist scams and the latest, Terrorism activities.

Actually I am very surprised that a major terrorist attack has not happened yet in Thailand. This country is such a failed State managed by a bunch of clowns.

Most probably just a matter of time...

We want to say "WAKE UP THAILAND", but after saying this for 10 years, there is no more hope.

Blah! Blah! Blah! Thailand has a friendly and open policy for visiting and immigration. And foreigners can move around inside the country without being harassed. People can go about their business without the authorities sticking their nose in at every turn. Unfortunately this also makes it a comfortable environment for criminals. Any tightening up and you would be screeching like a bird in a cat's mouth.

Absolutely not. Between total "freedom", uncontrolled "ultra-liberalism" and total harassing police State, there is a reasonable middle position. Thailand has indeed a friendly and relatively open "policy", the famous "Land of Smile". But take a look at what is behind the smile. Freedom does not mean "no authority" and "no control". It is not about being harassed. It is about protecting people and avoid the usual extremists of all kinds that will infiltrate and take advantage of failed States like Thailand (Not only Thailand, but let's sweep our own door first). I would welcome some tightening and most importantly seriousness in Thailand controls. I have nothing to hide and from my perspective, Thailand has gone way too far in laxism (you call this freedom, fine with me). Keep the freedom but make sure that all mafia, illegal and terrorists activities are kept away. Fail to do so and I can only guarantee you that Thailand will continue to go down the hill.

[harrycallahan]

My hunch. The fake passport travellers were unlucky illegal immigrants. Plane was brought down by technical malfunction and/or pilot error.

[Radar501]

"...... Pol Colonel Suphachai Phuikaewkham said the bookings were made online,........... This meant it was impossible to identify the people who made the bookings, or where they did this, as requests for the bookings were made online, the officer said."

Okay, now I'm really confused.

If a booking was made on-line, doesn't that mean a credit card number was needed to make payment? It doesn't matter how many re-bookings or middle agents were used to throw off the scent, coz the electronic paper trail can always be traced back to the card number, and, therefore, the cardholder.

Criminal gangs deal in hard cash for that very reason.

Anyone have a better understanding of this??

Didn't the OP say the tickets were purchased with baht? Of course, they could have used Thai credit cards. Crooks and terrorists may be likely to pay a bar girl a premium to make the purchase online for them to cover their tracks. The name on the cc and the name on the ticket do not have to agree, that is a fact.

I think you are correct. An airline ticket in my name can be purchased legally on-line using the credit card details of a third person.

So, if the purchase of that ticket implicated me in a serious criminal offence, you would expect the police to pay a visit to the holder of the credit card and ask a few questions.

As you stated, some unfortunate bar girl might have been conned into allowing me to use her credit card, and then later not be willing or able to identify me.

The Police Colonel said that it was impossible to identify who made the booking in this case. I hope the good colonel went to the trouble of locating the cardholder and adequately interrogated him/her before he made such a claim.

EDIT: As per a following post from Noitom

"Multiple news sources state that the tickets were paid for in cash."

Thanks for the update. Makes more sense now.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Radar501

[noitom]

Getting an Indian visa requires leaving your passport at the Indian embassy in Bangkok and pick up 3 days later. No sleep for the whole time worrying about my passport on Thai motorcycles shuttling about under bowls of noodles and fish balls on the corner of a little plastic street table in Bangkok and then back on the motorcycle.

[noitom]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Multiple news sources state that the tickets were paid for in cash.

"...... Pol Colonel Suphachai Phuikaewkham said the bookings were made online,........... This meant it was impossible to identify the people who made the bookings, or where they did this, as requests for the bookings were made online, the officer said."

Okay, now I'm really confused.

If a booking was made on-line, doesn't that mean a credit card number was needed to make payment? It doesn't matter how many re-bookings or middle agents were used to throw off the scent, coz the electronic paper trail can always be traced back to the card number, and, therefore, the cardholder.

Criminal gangs deal in hard cash for that very reason.

Anyone have a better understanding of this??

Didn't the OP say the tickets were purchased with baht? Of course, they could have used Thai credit cards. Crooks and terrorists may be likely to pay a bar girl a premium to make the purchase online for them to cover their tracks. The name on the cc and the name on the ticket do not have to agree, that is a fact.

I think you are correct. An airline ticket in my name can be purchased legally on-line using the credit card details of a third person.

So, if the purchase of that ticket implicated me in a serious criminal offence, you would expect the police to pay a visit to the holder of the credit card and ask a few questions.

As you stated, some unfortunate bar girl might have been conned into allowing me to use her credit card, and then later not be willing or able to identify me.

The Police Colonel said that it was impossible to identify who made the booking in this case. I hope the good colonel went to the trouble of locating the cardholder and adequately interrogating him/her before he made such a claim.

[kannot]

But entering Western countries with a stolen Western passport "is not easy," said Ahmed Salah Hashim, Associate Professor at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.

He gives credence to the theory that terrorists may have targeted MH370, particularly since the two stolen passports were under Interpol surveillance.

Thailand does not check passports against Interpol's Stolen and Lost Travel Documents (SLTD) database -- which has more than 40 million entries -- a senior Thai immigration police officer told AFP.

The international police organisation has urged countries to screen all passports "for the sake of innocent passengers".

So Thailand does not even check passports against the Interpol list, great security. It appears they don't even check their own data base.

wonder why the long queues at swampy then?

[The Fatman]

So Thailand does not even check passports against the Interpol list, great security. It appears they don't even check their own data base.

Let me leap to the defence on this one. Who says that the people who lifted or obtained those passports, 4 years ago at least in one case, used them to exit Thailand. The issue then is why did they not ring alarm bells when used in Malaysia or elsewhere.

Someone mentioned using Credit Cards to book online. Not 100% necessary. Ever heard of PayPal or Bitcoin? It would not be super difficult to set-up a one off bank account and link it to either of those services for e-payment sure it can lead back to the account but where might that get you some shelf company in the Caribbean maybe with no names, no pack drill et al.

[yankee99]

I wonder how many people were convicted of selling passports in Thailand and of those how many got a 20 year jail term? My guess zero

[Prbkk]

So this is now being linked to an Iranian guy running a people smuggling operation from Pattaya Sydney Morning Herald report).

Edited March 11, 2014 by Prbkk

[samjaidee]

"Thailand has been used by some international terrorist groups as a zone of operation, to raise funds or to plan attacks," said Rommel Banlaoi, an analyst on terrorism in South-East Asia.

Surprised? Not at all... What are the root causes? Exactly the same and for the road accidents, the scams and other major problems that have been increasing in Thailand for the last decade:

No standard + No control + No safety + No authority + No implementation or respect of laws and regulations + widespread corruption = Total laxism and anarchy!

it does not mean that Thailand directly supports or funds Terrorism. Of course not. But indirectly because of laxism and corruption, the country has become a major playground for all kind of mafias and terrorists. Remember a few weeks ago, this story about fruits and veggies sold containing formalin? One seller was saying that is only concern was to increase profit!!! Somehow this is the same root cause. Here in Thailand, money can buy absolutely everything. There is absolutely no (more) moral and common sense. So, of course, it reaches a point where a total failed State leads to all kind of abuses and extremes; from road fatalities (Thailand rank 2nd in the World), food full of pesticides and chemicals (No law, no control), widespread tourist scams and the latest, Terrorism activities.

Actually I am very surprised that a major terrorist attack has not happened yet in Thailand. This country is such a failed State managed by a bunch of clowns.

Most probably just a matter of time...

We want to say "WAKE UP THAILAND", but after saying this for 10 years, there is no more hope.

Good post.

I like the way you've invented a new word, "laxism". Personally I would have used laxity but each to their own. :-)

[chooka]

My hunch. The fake passport travellers were unlucky illegal immigrants. Plane was brought down by technical malfunction and/or pilot error.

I said pretty much the same at post #46 in relation to the passports.

[Dogmatix]

Another hub sobriquet relating to crime and terrorism with Thai police involvement. There seems to be no crime under the sun that Thai police are not actively involved in.

[pasak]

"...Police turn a blind eye..."

Euphemism in this case for "Police are actively involved and key to this business."

[lvr181]

..."and it is all because of corruption get a decent a decent government that takes harsh action on corruption but it will still take a long time to stop."

There is no money to be gained by anyone in authority in stopping corruption! And who was it, that said "crime does not pay"?

[Minnehaha]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I know a guy who was unfortunate to have his passport stolen twice over the course of a year here back in the 90's. First replacement was easy, but the second was a 1 year book and he had to renew every year. Pain in the ass for visas obviously cause the last 6 months of a book are a problem. He dutifully went to the consulate and did the requisite paperwork. 3 years later he was summoned in to speak with the Consul, who asked him if he ever trafficked in drugs etc. After a while he was shown a photocopy of his passport - all details identical except the photo was of an African fellow. He was a Nigerian arrested entering Bali with a lot of coke. Years later, the American was renewing his passport and they renewed it for 5 years.

During that time he visited Indonesia several times - Jakarta, Bali included. One day entering Jakarta immigration said wait a minute... you are blacklisted. Come with me. He was interrogated and the room filled with officials. He offered his luggage to be searched and his person.

They said the passport had been altered (it had - pages were added and it was extended by the State dept), but nothing was illegal. He was escorted on the return flight that evening.

He got a new passport and has since traveled to Indonesia without problems. So far.

This raises the issue of blacklists. Once on one, how do you get removed? Not so easy.

It seems the Indonesians were looking for $$ more than anything else, I think.

Another "I know a guy" story, what is the name of the bar you heard it? The gossip bar?

Actually it was me. I guess I could have used the "the SWINM" (someone who is not me) but thought this would not understood on TV. It is used as a way to remain technically anonymous on a forum, while everyone knows it really is you... as you may know since you seem to know everything. I was being modest. And like to remain relatively anonymous on TV and other forums.

I am responding to your comment because I feel it important enough for others to know immigration in Indonesia can play games and also to raise the issue of blacklisting names for various reasons and the hassles of getting on one. The idiots in Indonesia blacklisted the name on the stolen passport even after a Nigerian's identity was known and he was convicted of a crime.

[fishhooks]

My hunch. The fake passport travellers were unlucky illegal immigrants. Plane was brought down by technical malfunction and/or pilot error.

I said pretty much the same at post #46 in relation to the passports.

Very good point re the "Real World" cause of this apparent disaster.

Perhaps as this topic now has reached multiple pages, it may well be a good time to pause and wait for the actual cause to be identified, as long as this may take!

[mrtoad]

"Caretaker Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul proposed the setting up of a database on missing or stolen passports for use by immigration police to arrest people using them at gates to enter or leave the country"

Yep - that would make perfect Thai sense.................much easier to save face that way than just tapping into the existing Interpol database and having to answer awkward questions about why they didn't do that before!

Surapong the boy for rent who delivers official passports to convicted criminals on the run, in person

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