Why are you a butterfly?

[wym]

When a woman decides to trade her time for money or otherwise capitalize on her youth and looks to get ahead, she is certainly a willing partner, just as much if she's doing it for the pure pleasure, feels sorry for the guy, whatever her motivation may be.

Most younger western women these days have sex for pure fun, no strings attached, friends with benefits etc are SOP back home. They are happy to separate sex and love. Obviously it's nicer when they go together, but either is just fine without the other as long as there's no coercion and both parties are honest with each other and themselves.

And having a committed relationship doesn't at all have to rule out other more casual relationships, again, as long as the partners agree and abide b whatever ground rules they set, it isn't cheating. And many households happily co-exist with more than two adults having sex with each other too. Obviously lying is what makes it cheating and is worthy of contempt.

If any of this seems "somehow wrong" to you, that is the result of cultural values programmed by many centuries of rigid mores enforced by religion-based authorities, no matter how non-religious modern individuals may be, that brainwashing does have its roots in monotheistic control-of-the-masses indoctrination.

Yes we romantic travelers are here because we seek young beautiful partners unavailable to us back home. And nothing wrong with that as long as all parties concerned are getting good value back for what they're putting out.

Those who fool themselves and let themselves get scammed are indeed worthy of pity for their gullibility, but not contempt for seeking happiness that way.

[choochoo]

Anyone can get on those online porn sites. There are never any guys from Thailand.

Thai guys just don't seem to be into the same things that Farangs are.

No Thai go go's or other unusual places.

Thai men don't strike me as very kinky at all. Lady boys excepted.

Thai boys are the biggest consumers of SEX in thailand. Its just they arent allowed in touristy places like nana and cowboy so its not noticeable.

On another thread a guy states a soapy girl has been offered to be a mia noi 4th removed...........lol. All thai offers.

[FiftyTwo]

"The only proof I have of this phenomenon is the availability of willing partners in Thailand, whether P4P or not." You really think paying a hooker for sex equals a willing partner. Sorry, but i see that is someone trying to make cash. If you said you werent going to pay, i suspect they wouldnt be very willing.

Btw..the so-called "phenomenon" of availability of willing partners, happens the world over, not just THailand. What it really is about is the phenomenon and availability of willing partners in Thailand that a certain division of men cannot have outside of thailand...

I don't agree, and you have no experience in this area.

I loved and lived with a woman for 30 years in the UK. The sex was never good, but I loved her anyway.

In Thailand, with paid partners, the sex is great, varied, and surprising in many different ways.

My best 'loving' experience in the UK was poor compared to my worst 'paid for' experience in Thailand.

I feel, like you, that it shouldn't have been that way.

Sex with a loving partner should be great, sex with a paid partner should be rubbish.

But that isn't the way it worked.

In my life reality and my expectations have failed to match.

PS

Until I came to Thailand, I wouldn't have imagined paying for sex, never did.

Here it does appear to be entirely normal.

The world is a very strange place!

[Malthus101]

Are you a butterfly?

Well, I used to be when I was younger. I had no regard for anyones feelings, not even my own. My parents treated each other very badly and rather than get divorced they stayed together and made the family suffer. Interesting none of my brothers or sisters are married either.

I also hated myself for a significant period of my life when I was younger, and it took me a long time to make sense of things I had to endure growing up.

Now I met a beautiful girl who loves me I've completely changed. We've been together 4/5 years and I have absolutely interest in cheating on her or having numerous partners in a night or a week. We will marry this year.

Maybe it takes the right girl, maybe it takes the butterfly to grow up. I think deep down ALL men and women want to be loved, despite their own attempts to sabotage it.

"...and I have absolutely interest in cheating on her" - typo LOL!

As for your post in general....

Again, you seem to think being a butterfly is an all male trait? Wrong. VERY wrong indeed.

[Malthus101]

Are you a butterfly?

Well, I used to be when I was younger. I had no regard for anyones feelings, not even my own. My parents treated each other very badly and rather than get divorced they stayed together and made the family suffer. Interesting none of my brothers or sisters are married either.

I also hated myself for a significant period of my life when I was younger, and it took me a long time to make sense of things I had to endure growing up.

Now I met a beautiful girl who loves me I've completely changed. We've been together 4/5 years and I have absolutely interest in cheating on her or having numerous partners in a night or a week. We will marry this year.

Maybe it takes the right girl, maybe it takes the butterfly to grow up. I think deep down ALL men and women want to be loved, despite their own attempts to sabotage it.

"...and I have absolutely interest in cheating on her" - typo LOL!

As for your post in general....

Again, you seem to think being a butterfly is an all male trait? Wrong. VERY wrong indeed.

[Loptr]

A question to all the butterflies. Doesn't love ever come into such an activity? Is pleasure more important than love?

Where to begin. First, you are confusing love and pleasure, which are two completely different things. Your judeo-christian upbringing is showing as it is taught in the west that sex is an act which should be confined to two partners committed to each other under the eyes of your "god". The rules are not so rigid in the east as Buddhists have not had this indoctrination. Sex out of wedlock is not seen as a "sin" as it is in the west. Sex is a pleasurable activity, so why not enjoy it? The only proof I have of this phenomenon is the availability of willing partners in Thailand, whether P4P or not.

Love with a bar girl is a completely different matter and the TV archives are littered with stories of failure when you confuse love with pleasure and take up with a bar girl. Not to say all of these relationships fail. Much like any relationship, it's about managing expectations and fulfillment of those expectations, but when you cross the line from paying customer to paying boyfriend, the emotional lines become quite blurred.

As far as love in general, it can be fraught with pitfalls. Again, expectations change after marriage and these expectations are usually not communicated between partners until AFTER tying the knot. This, coupled with the predictable phases of a monogamous relationship and the odds are not in favor of long term success. Kudos to those who can make it work long-term. After two marriages and untold relationships, these days I become friends with ladies and leave it at that. It is quite possible to have friends with benefits if you are open about your intentions from the outset. Love adds too many complications. If you want unrequited love and devotion, get a dog.

Wanting to combine sex and love has zero to do with judeo-christian upbringing blah blah and whatever god. Well of course it CAN have something to do with it, but you are presuming it DOES have something to do with it. I am not religious, i dont believe in any kind of "god", yet i like to combine sex and love. If you cant understand then you must presumre we are all just monkeys, <deleted> things on sight as a gesture of greeting and goodwill.

Yes indeed sex is a pleasurable activity, and of course we should enjoy it, but when you care for someone and emotions and connection gets involved, then it becomes hard to detach..and those with a modicum of consideration for their partners consider their partners feelings before screwing around and betraying trust. Oh..but in Thailand its not a betrayal of trust, right? Its normal, right? So reading about dicks being cut off and fed to ducks is a work of fiction, right? Hmm....

"The only proof I have of this phenomenon is the availability of willing partners in Thailand, whether P4P or not." You really think paying a hooker for sex equals a willing partner. Sorry, but i see that is someone trying to make cash. If you said you werent going to pay, i suspect they wouldnt be very willing.

Btw..the so-called "phenomenon" of availability of willing partners, happens the world over, not just THailand. What it really is about is the phenomenon and availability of willing partners in Thailand that a certain division of men cannot have outside of thailand...

I'm not going to take your bait Lara. Let's just say you have your notion of "love and sexual pleasure" and I have mine. Given the number of foreign men in Thailand compared to foreign women, I think my case has a bit more validity, but hey, that's just me. Have a nice day.

[wym]

Sex with a loving partner should be great, sex with a paid partner should be rubbish.

You've just had your eyes opened to the falsehood of that bit of cultural programming.

Next step is to realize that paid partners can become just as loving if you put in the time and energy - in many cases the money flow is necessary but not sufficient.

Some girls' objectives are to suck you dry as quickly as possible and move on, but with the right filters up front, in my experience very few.

[Malthus101]

Where do I begin?

1. If you are a male, go jump off a bridge. It's the best thing for you. <--(advocating gentlemanly conduct = he should jump of a bridge?)

2. If you are female as I suspect given the bitterness of your post, I am going to assume you are a Western woman. <--(you really think only a woman could feel this about men? ..dont bother answering that, im being rhetorical)

Let me answer your question of where the REAL men went.

YOU, feminist YOU, killed them off. The fact you say "Where did they go?" indicates they once existed. It pretty much coincides historically with the rise of feminism and equal rights for women. You can't have you cake and eat it. <--(feminism has been around for centuaries. Are you saying women stopped being women (whatever that means) as early as the 18th centuary? Yes, we should go back to not being allowed to read books, study, or vote.. All that does is gives woman more independance and a voice..and dear god we misogynist men cant be having THAT now, can we!)

"no brains, no personality, no positive characteristics, no honour."

Haha. I have plenty of brains, loads of personality, dozens upon dozens of positive characteristics (one of them being my roguish ways... girls LOVE IT!) <--(roguish ways..and girls loving it..hmm..what age are you btw ?.. are you a roguish 50 something year old, charming all the 24 year old Thai girls from the village per chance..? )

I met up with a farang woman last night - friend of a friend from back home. It was a painful reminder of how screwed up the West is. Charmless, masculine, opinionated over nonsense issues, badly dressed. Just unattractive. <--(You mean a painful reminder of the calibre of women from the west you were personally able to attract to your company..)

See Western women love to ask, "Where did all the real men go?" <--(I personally dont, i personally dont surround myself with male sexpats/sextourists and morons, so i thankfully dont feel the need to say that. Sorry for anyone that does.)

Let me ask you... "Where did all the real women go?" <--(aka: "why cant i get the attention of higher quality women?")

Remember those? They also have been on the rapid decline since the advent of feminism. <--(since the 18th centuary..hmm... )

We men want feminine women. Pretty ones, with long hair, make-up, perfume, elegant clothing, female manners that we find charming, sexual allure through subtle behaviours that drive us crazy.

Virtually impossible to find women like that anymore in the West. <(--for you, you mean)

That is why a lot of me come to Asia. Asian women for the most part, still retain these qualities. Eastern European women too, Russian women. Same thing. <--(when they have to face the fact they arent really sought after by the kinds of women they would want. WHich i actually totally understand!! Not knocking that!)

It seems bitter women think that wearing men's clothing and hiking boots and filing sexual harassment cases over the most petty things is the way a modern "strong" woman should act. <--(im sorta feeling quite sad for you now..that i can only imagine that you must never really had the company of sexy feminine women who actually have a reasoned voices. Either you were in a terrible workplace, did inappriate "roguish" things to illicit such ott reactions, or are guilty of reading too much tabloid news).

It is utterly repulsive to a real man. (I don't speak for the Beta males, they are beyond help) <--(um..im sorry, but i hardly think the average bloke that comes to Thailand is an Alpha Male. Are you seriously trying to suggest you are one? Alpha males dont need to traverse across country to get feminine and sexy women..they are easily accessible in their own countries..which usually means the "must seak willing women ugg ugg" response doesnt kick in.)

Here, a typical Western middle-aged woman:

450px-Red_Fanny_Pack.jpg

Really? I doubt it, well not in my circle or from what i have seen..but ok, you are intitled to your view point. I could easily find a post a typical farang guy in Thailand photo..and well..we all know what they look like really..which is certainly based on fact, rather than some dopey image you pulled off the net. You know it too.

And here, a young female role-model:

Miley-Cyrus-Tongue.jpg

Oh give us a break..now you are just coming across as comical..

Get your own house in order before you start making demands on ours.

Oh go get yourself an enema. YOu sound like you need one..

Century darling, not centuary.

Now let me read over this again.... blah blah blah.... feminism 18th century.... (60s onwards, everything before was just a prelude) blah blah... a 50 year old... wrong.... blah blah... couldn't get those kind of women back home (they don't exist) blah blah... illogical argument.. blah blah.... "we all know what they look like really..which is certainly based on fact, rather than some dopey image you pulled off the net. You know it too. " typical femilogic (aka, no logic whatsoever just emotions)... hmm.. blah blah... finish off with a personal insult thus admitting defeat.

OK, got you, a middle-aged bitter female from the West.

Thanks for your input.

[wym]

finish off with a personal insult thus admitting defeat.

OK, got you, a middle-aged bitter female from the West.

How blind to irony can you get?

[wym]

Where to begin. First, you are confusing love and pleasure, which are two completely different things.

Came across this lovely piece, short film where they asked 20 complete strangers to kiss each other for the first time.

Edited March 17, 2014 by wym

[HooHaa]

butterfly. another archaic sex trade term used almost exclusively by what is thankfully a fading generation of sex tourists

[FiftyTwo]

butterfly. another archaic sex trade term used almost exclusively by what is thankfully a fading generation of sex tourists

To correct you,

Used almost entirely by Thai sex workers, sometimes copied by their foreigner customers.

Best to not repeat words and phrases used commonly by Thai prostitutes, gives the game away.

[Loles]

This is a simply biology and to be a butterfly it's funny and pleasurable. I wish I had more wings.

[ultimate weapon]

because you can be?

'men are only as faithful as their options

chris rock said this.

[MrWorldwide]

butterfly. another archaic sex trade term used almost exclusively by what is thankfully a fading generation of sex tourists

I'd be happier to see terms like 'slut' disappear from the vernacular too, particularly as that term is almost exclusively used by men to denigrate women who allow their genitals to rule their brains in a fashion we males somehow find threatening (and all too familiar).

'Butterfly' has absolutely no negative connotations for me - nor does 'buffalo', fwiw, despite the fact that its considered a massive insult by Thai people - it would seem that the only people who give a damn are those who actually care what others think of them. I could give a flying frack for the collective opinion of the Thai people, but then I care little for the opinion of my fellow Australians. I don't go out of my way to offend people - far from it - but I don't live my life according to the dictates of a self-appointed moral minority either.

Over to you, Rhett.

[LaraC]

Where do I begin?

1. If you are a male, go jump off a bridge. It's the best thing for you. <--(advocating gentlemanly conduct = he should jump of a bridge?)

2. If you are female as I suspect given the bitterness of your post, I am going to assume you are a Western woman. <--(you really think only a woman could feel this about men? ..dont bother answering that, im being rhetorical)

Let me answer your question of where the REAL men went.

YOU, feminist YOU, killed them off. The fact you say "Where did they go?" indicates they once existed. It pretty much coincides historically with the rise of feminism and equal rights for women. You can't have you cake and eat it. <--(feminism has been around for centuaries. Are you saying women stopped being women (whatever that means) as early as the 18th centuary? Yes, we should go back to not being allowed to read books, study, or vote.. All that does is gives woman more independance and a voice..and dear god we misogynist men cant be having THAT now, can we!)

"no brains, no personality, no positive characteristics, no honour."

Haha. I have plenty of brains, loads of personality, dozens upon dozens of positive characteristics (one of them being my roguish ways... girls LOVE IT!) <--(roguish ways..and girls loving it..hmm..what age are you btw ?.. are you a roguish 50 something year old, charming all the 24 year old Thai girls from the village per chance..? )

I met up with a farang woman last night - friend of a friend from back home. It was a painful reminder of how screwed up the West is. Charmless, masculine, opinionated over nonsense issues, badly dressed. Just unattractive. <--(You mean a painful reminder of the calibre of women from the west you were personally able to attract to your company..)

See Western women love to ask, "Where did all the real men go?" <--(I personally dont, i personally dont surround myself with male sexpats/sextourists and morons, so i thankfully dont feel the need to say that. Sorry for anyone that does.)

Let me ask you... "Where did all the real women go?" <--(aka: "why cant i get the attention of higher quality women?")

Remember those? They also have been on the rapid decline since the advent of feminism. <--(since the 18th centuary..hmm... )

We men want feminine women. Pretty ones, with long hair, make-up, perfume, elegant clothing, female manners that we find charming, sexual allure through subtle behaviours that drive us crazy.

Virtually impossible to find women like that anymore in the West. <(--for you, you mean)

That is why a lot of me come to Asia. Asian women for the most part, still retain these qualities. Eastern European women too, Russian women. Same thing. <--(when they have to face the fact they arent really sought after by the kinds of women they would want. WHich i actually totally understand!! Not knocking that!)

It seems bitter women think that wearing men's clothing and hiking boots and filing sexual harassment cases over the most petty things is the way a modern "strong" woman should act. <--(im sorta feeling quite sad for you now..that i can only imagine that you must never really had the company of sexy feminine women who actually have a reasoned voices. Either you were in a terrible workplace, did inappriate "roguish" things to illicit such ott reactions, or are guilty of reading too much tabloid news).

It is utterly repulsive to a real man. (I don't speak for the Beta males, they are beyond help) <--(um..im sorry, but i hardly think the average bloke that comes to Thailand is an Alpha Male. Are you seriously trying to suggest you are one? Alpha males dont need to traverse across country to get feminine and sexy women..they are easily accessible in their own countries..which usually means the "must seak willing women ugg ugg" response doesnt kick in.)

Here, a typical Western middle-aged woman:

450px-Red_Fanny_Pack.jpg

Really? I doubt it, well not in my circle or from what i have seen..but ok, you are intitled to your view point. I could easily find a post a typical farang guy in Thailand photo..and well..we all know what they look like really..which is certainly based on fact, rather than some dopey image you pulled off the net. You know it too.

And here, a young female role-model:

Miley-Cyrus-Tongue.jpg

Oh give us a break..now you are just coming across as comical..

Get your own house in order before you start making demands on ours.

Oh go get yourself an enema. YOu sound like you need one..

Century darling, not centuary.

Now let me read over this again.... blah blah blah.... feminism 18th century.... (60s onwards, everything before was just a prelude) blah blah... a 50 year old... wrong.... blah blah... couldn't get those kind of women back home (they don't exist) blah blah... illogical argument.. blah blah.... "we all know what they look like really..which is certainly based on fact, rather than some dopey image you pulled off the net. You know it too. " typical femilogic (aka, no logic whatsoever just emotions)... hmm.. blah blah... finish off with a personal insult thus admitting defeat.

OK, got you, a middle-aged bitter female from the West.

Thanks for your input.

Typed on a tab. Like to see anyone type anything half decent to read on a tab. Surprised that the tab didnt autocorrect it, but it didnt. None-the-less..

Why so patronising, poppet, sweetie chops? Are the spelling police handing out lollipops today?

I cant read the rest of your post, because its a blur of blah blah.

No, im not a middle-aged bitter female from the west, but thanks for your "input". Twas highly constructive, well thought out, and oh so informative.

[LaraC]

finish off with a personal insult thus admitting defeat.

OK, got you, a middle-aged bitter female from the West.

How blind to irony can you get?