UK Adult Dependant

[7by7]

Before I start, I must say that I don't think we have much of a chance; but I'd like other's opinions.

The situation is as follows:-

My wife's identical twin sister, who lives in Bangkok, was last year diagnosed with nephritis of the kidneys (I don't know exactly which type). She was given medication and started to improve; not only did she stop losing weight, she started to regain the weight she had previously lost.

But, we learned yesterday that she has taken a turn for the worse. Although she is still eating regularly and well, she is losing weight dramatically. In photos we received yesterday she looks like someone from an Oxfam appeal.

The prognosis is not good. Neither she nor we can afford any more than the basic treatment by medication she is already receiving. Even if we could, she will be lucky to last another 12 months.

She does not want to die alone, without her twin. My wife desperately wants to be with her twin when she dies.

My wife going to Thailand is not an option; we don't know how long she would be there for and without the income from her job I would struggle to meet our financial commitments.

The sister coming to the UK as a visitor is an option; but she could only stay for 6 months and, being blunt, may not have died by then!

So I am looking at an adult dependent visa.

However, as I said at the start, I don't think she would qualify.

Two reasons for this.

1) Although we have occasionally sent her money; we have not been financially supporting her. This is mainly because she does currently work, the income form which meets her needs.

However, as her condition worsens she will reach the stage where she is unable to work and so will need financial support from someone.

2) Her nephew, my wife's son, and his wife live 5 minutes walk away from her. They see each other daily ( it was he who sent my wife the latest pictures of her sister). He and his wife live in a three bedroom house (it actually belongs to my wife and I and is awaiting our retirement) so there is room for his aunt to live with him. He and his wife both have good jobs with reasonable pay, so could afford to support her. But that could change when they start a family of their own.

Therefore, it seems to me that any application as a dependant relative would be refused as she doesn't meet Para 317 (iii) and (v) of the rules.

But; in the ECGs, SET8.3 Are they mainly or wholly financially dependent? says

The ECO should also remember that while dependence in the context of the Rules refers to financial dependence, the issues of emotional and physical bonds should also be considered. Any such evidence should be given due weight and may serve to swing the balance in the applicant’s favour in a borderline case.

Most people must be aware that the emotional bond between twins, particularly identical twins, is one of the strongest there is.

So, what I'm basically asking is:

Do members think that there is any possibility that the fact that she is dying and wants to be with her identical twin sister when that happens would be enough to sway the decision in favour of granting her ILE as an adult dependant?

Or would be wasting our time, and the nearly £2000 application fee?

(Those who think we only want her to come to the UK to take advantage of the NHS are entitled to their view; but please refrain from posting it here and keep posts relevant to the visa question.)

[theoldgit]

7by7, a very sorry situation for your wife and sister in law, but despite the bond between the two sisters I'm inclined to share your view that an application would stand little chance of success, to be perfectly blunt and without wishing to sound harsh, I don't really think your family circumstances are what that type of visa is meant for, I would love to be proved wrong.

I know you don't want a discussion about NHS entitlement, I understand and respect your reasoning, but the ECO may well take the view that is indeed the case, and might make a decision accordingly.

A very difficult and heart wrenching situation for your family.

[Jay Sata]

There was a very sad case illustrated in the Daily Mail a few days ago where a US husband suffering from leukaemia was deported from his UK family.

A British mother has been left to bring up her daughter alone after her American husband was kicked out of the country because he had cancer.

Distraught Lorraine Marx, 56, nursed her husband Ralph Marx, also 56, when he was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukaemia.

But the Home Office ruled he had become a burden on the taxpayer despite having private health cover after the NHS billed him £98,000 for the emergency cancer treatment he had received.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578149/Mother-forced-bring-daughter-US-husband-asked-leave-UK-cancer.html#ixzz2w6FtG8XH

[thepool]

Very sorry to learn about your family situation.

Kidney disease in the West is not an inevitably fatal process. Dialysis extends life until a transplant can be undertaken.

I have no knowledge about the situation in Thailand but a PM to one of the Health Forum mods may produce some valuable information.

I suspect , unfortunately , you may be correct in believing a visa would be very difficult to obtain. A discussion with a reputable immigration lawyer may be helpful.

[thepool]

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There was a very sad case illustrated in the Daily Mail a few days ago where a US husband suffering from leukaemia was deported from his UK family.

A British mother has been left to bring up her daughter alone after her American husband was kicked out of the country because he had cancer.
Distraught Lorraine Marx, 56, nursed her husband Ralph Marx, also 56, when he was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukaemia.
But the Home Office ruled he had become a burden on the taxpayer despite having private health cover after the NHS billed him £98,000 for the emergency cancer treatment he had received.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578149/Mother-forced-bring-daughter-US-husband-asked-leave-UK-cancer.html#ixzz2w6FtG8XH

As always the "Daily Fail" hypes these story's for tabloid effect.

If as claimed health insurance was held the NHS bill of £98,000 could have been presented to the insurance company.

[Jay Sata]

The Mail comes in for a lot of unfair criticism.

Briefly...

Mr Marx surrendered his passport in 2012 and applied for UK residency. However, the Home Office rejected it and ordered he leave Britain immediately. A later application from his new home in Tennessee was also rejected when the Home Office ruled he was at risk of drawing on public funds.

The Home office said...

Our family rules have been designed to make sure that those coming to the UK to join their spouse or partner will not become a burden on the taxpayer and will be well enough supported to integrate .

Please read the entire story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578149/Mother-forced-bring-daughter-US-husband-asked-leave-UK-cancer.html

[theoldgit]

Can we stick to the question asked please.

[steady]

I can't remember what regs I addressed but when we were looking at bringing one of the wife's family over for a visit a year or so ago it seemed possible to get a visa just by me being the sponsor, guaranteeing the cost and ticket. However plans changed and we never went down that route. If it was doable can your wife's sister apply for the visitor visa with you adding a letter saying the you provide accommodation and will meet all financial requirements for a family visit?

I understand that at first glance it appears that you are letting yourself be liable for lots of NHS costs but I don't believe that would be the case. Everyone is entitled to emergency care in the UK and at that point when your wife's sister actually needed it you and your wife would just have to revert to nursing care at home using the drugs from Thailand. It probably means that the treatment and care would be similar to what she's getting now. If the sister was then unable to travel and you had a letter from a doctor how would that be looked at by the UKBA (can't remember their new name)? I don't know.

The visa will be cheaper but additional costs at the time of death would be incurred. I have re-read this and I know that it looks a bit "off the wall" but when things are as bad as you say then desperate people take desperate measures.

I'm sure that this has lots of holes in it but perhaps if given full consideration something workable could come out of it. Only you know if it's worth a try.

Good luck.

[7by7]

Thanks to those who have responded positively.

Steady, a visit visa would, I think, be possible; she has visited us in the UK before.

Although we are trying to see if there is any way she can live permanently with us, if a visit is all that is possible then a visit is what it will have to be.

thepool, good idea about the Health forum; hadn't thought of that. Being identical twins, I guess that a transplant from my wife stands a high chance of success.

[Waterloo]

7by7 very sorry to read about your current situation, a truly terrible position to be in.

Reading your post, if you go for a visitor visa how will you deal with the reason to return in this case ?

From what you describe I assume it is entirely possible that your sister in laws health could have deteriorated to a point were travel is no longer possible by the time she would be scheduled to return.

I truly hope this is not an issue and you find a way forward.

[CiaranO]

@7by7 - although i have nothing to add as i simply dont know i am very sorry to hear of your situation and i do hope something somehow can be worked out for you and your family.

Ciaran

[7by7]

Thanks to all who have expressed their good wishes.

Just had some good news from Thailand.

She spent most of yesterday in hospital undergoing various tests, and it seems that her condition is not as bad as at first thought.

Her kidneys are working adequately and dialysis, or transplant, is not required at this stage.

They still can't explain her weight loss, though.

My wife would still like her to come and live with us, though. But it seems from all I have read that this is currently not possible.

If we were successful. does anyone know if the undertaking we would have to sign that she would not claim any public funds for 5 years include NHS treatment?

[Donutz]

I'm sorry to hear of your (you, your wife and her sister) situation. Hopefully her health will stabalize or improve.

It's a shame that these sort of things aren't properly covered in EU treaties, the only way that your sister in law could come over to live with you would be if you moved to an other EU country (EU route) but you are aware of this and I assume that moving to the EU mainland together isn't an option.

Unless your wife has naturalized and obtained UK citizenship, then she could move to an other EU country by herself (temporary, 3 months should be sufficient?) and live there (the centre of her activities being in an other EU country then the country she is a citizen of). Her sister could then join her as a "dependant family member of an EU/EEA citizen". Or you could move as the Directive 2004/38/EC Freedom of Movement applies to the dependant extended family of the EU/EEA citizen and the extended family of the partner. But I guess you already considered this too since you are already aware of these rules.

[Mossfinn]

They still can't explain her weight loss, though.

If she is eating properly and still losing weight, have you thought of T.B?

She is obviously under the weather and TB is an opportunist threat, when the gate is down it likes to get in, if you haven't thought of it, check to see if she has had fevers, weight loss- but this normally goes with lack of appetite, and you say she is eating well-tiredness, a persistent cough, don't be fooled by people saying it should be phlegmmy, it can be a dry cough.

Responding to the illness, not the visa issue.

[7by7]

She has had a chest X-ray, and there is a shadow.

So her doctors are looking at the possibility of TB.

Other possibilities as well. not only did she used to smoke, but she used to work laying flooring tiles using powerful adhesives and solvents; and we all know what Thai health and safety rules are like; non existent.

Thanks to all those who have sent their best wishes, both here and via PM.

We will have to wait and see what her doctors say.

I have to admit that in starting this topic and asking the visa question I was really clutching at straws; being honest I already knew the answer.