95.5 percent of Crimeans vote for joining Russia

[benalibina]

This could be so bad. I hope not.

Does not have to be. If EU and US recognize it as they did with Kosovo, problem ends right there.

95% would surely count as majority and if the whole saga is about people and nothing else, accepting majority choice should not be an issue

Not a real vote. Not much different than nutty little NK boy getting 100%, but this has much worse implications. I have many friends from the region and are all very upset. This is not even remotely about US or EU. Not even remotely.

Wife said today when she came here, it was not US citizens that showed animosity. It was all the little Eastern European border countries that hated Russians and this is going to cause huge problems over there.

Wife was totally in Putin's corner and thought West was FOS when saying Putin was going to annex Crimea. Now she is in disbelieve and thinks this thing could go to levels no one can imagine. She is pretty tied in to Moscow big business as she works for BofA as an investment banker in global wealth. She says everyone over there is shocked and worried it went this far. Forget US response, this thing could spiral out of control rapidly no matter what US does.

You are wrong..... you are very wrong..... you are very very wrong.

The US and the EU are 100% rooted in this game, and they are playing it like chess and manipulating the situation (especially the USA) who again are acting in self interest and not the interest of the region.

You do realize that this nationalist movement in Ukraine is totally fascist, and very very dangerous. These neo nazis are planning on taking over and then the Ethnic cleansing will start including all jews, muslims and of course Russians.

They want a pure Nazi state, and they have the backing of the US state service.

You really need to take a 10 minute 'timeout' and watch this video..... all the resources are backed up from very credible neutral sources.

It is NOT a propaganda video, it has very big merit. Note the converstaion with US government officials handpicking the new nationalist Neo Nazi government from some of the vilest people.... Also the viral 'I am a Ukrainian' video.... Made by a Hollywood film crew.

The USA are into this up to their nuts. If they get their way, Ukraine will deffo be a NK ruled by fear and intimidation.

The USA should just keep the f*** out of others' politics... they are the most dangerous in the world and a lot of people are losing their patience with them..... One day the US could be turned into a smoking hole in the ground, and their foreign interferences will be their downfall.

The russians are correct thus regarding the fascists in ukranian government.

Thought today about Crimeas referendum, bearing in mind that it was always russian before and its inhabitants are mostly russians 2 and the fact that ukraine previously has not proved to be politically stable and full of corruption. Dont blame the russians in Crimea.

Lies lies and lies been reported here in western media......what a world we live in.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Scott

[Jingthing]

I think the "lies" are coming from the Putin apologist camp.

Also, don't kid yourselves, this story and this is just the beginning is largely about this one dangerous man -- PUTIN.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/03/vladmir-putin-crimea-hitler-1938-104711.html?hp=t1#.UyZ9hFFdUqk

It’s been a busy few weeks for Vladimir Putin. In the last month, the Russian president has hosted the Olympic Games, invaded a neighboring country and massed troops along its border. Back in Moscow, the Kremlin has cranked up the volume of hysterical anti-Western propaganda to a roar while cracking down on the last vestiges of the free media. All the while, he proclaims he wants peace and accuses Western leaders of hypocrisy and anti-Russian sentiment. If Putin wanted to do a better imitation of Adolf Hitler circa 1936-1938, he would have to grow a little mustache. Equally troubling is that the leaders of Europe and the United States have been doing a similarly good impersonation of the weak-kneed and risk-averse leaders who enabled Hitler’s rise in the 1930s.

...


It’s one thing for academics and pundits to calmly sympathize with Putin and his “vital interests” and his “sphere of influence,” as if 50 million Ukrainians should have no say in the matter. It’s quite another thing for Barack Obama, David Cameron and Angela Merkel to fret about the “instability” and “high costs” caused by sanctions against Russia—as if that could be worse than the instability caused by the partial annexation of a European country by a nuclear dictatorship, carried out with impunity.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Jingthing

[benalibina]

Lies and lack of critical reporting is expected in Russia...not in the WEST.

Yes Putin is indeed a dangerous man.

The Crimeans have voted though.

It all says enough about democracy......the best out of all the worst systems of government.

[Jingthing]

It seems to me they had to ask the rest of UKRAINE first for this to really be legit. Seriously, if you were Ukrainian you would be majorly pissed off now (and or depressed), and rightly so.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Jingthing

[benalibina]

It seems to me they had to ask the rest of UKRAINE first for this to really be legit. Seriously, if you were Ukrainian you would be majorly pissed off now (and or depressed), and rightly so.

Worried more. Well, it gives the ukranians a chance at least now to show that they can do better than the Russians.

Guess ....not....

[3NUMBAS]

N Krushchev gave it to them back in the 50s when it was the federation now they want it back not surprisingly

Edited March 17, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[folium]

N Krushchev gave it to them back in the 50s when it was the federation now they want it back not surprisingly

Norway, (actually King Christian I), offered the Orkneys and Shetland Islands to Scotland as his daughter's dowry. They were subsequently annexed by Scotland.

Perhaps Norway should claim them back and blow Scotland's oil industry out of the water....

Precedent is a dangerous concept. Perhaps the UK should reclaim the Oregon country (basically today's Washington & Oregon states) given up in 1846. Perhaps Mexico should reclaim its possessions that cover most of SW and W USA....and so on

[dighambara]

Interesting perspective - An election run by a foreign country, which has invaded sovereign territory, where, over 25% of the people didn't bother to vote. Plus the ballots were 'YES ONLY' - with no provision for a 'NO' vote.

So the headline actually says '4.5% of the people who went to the polls, did not mark their ballot'.

[Bandersnatch]

So if there was an election in Pattaya and 95% decided to join Russia....

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[geriatrickid]

Yes it's obvious the game gets much more serious once Russia actually annexes Crimea. I think they will. I don't read anything to indicate differently.

The Russians haven't forcibly annexed Crimea - the held a referendum and voted in large numbers to be absorbed back into Russia. A slight difference into how you are describing it , don't you agree?

Did you see the referendum question? I suggest you read it. No option to leave Crimea as it was.

You are not much one for history or respect for the existing treaties that the Russians signed are you? How about some of the basics of international law?

When the Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal, Russia gave an undertaking to respect the borders of Crimea. Russia has broken all of the agreements and its word means nothing now. What's next? Violating the arms control treaties?

[geriatrickid]

N Krushchev gave it to them back in the 50s when it was the federation now they want it back not surprisingly

Norway, (actually King Christian I), offered the Orkneys and Shetland Islands to Scotland as his daughter's dowry. They were subsequently annexed by Scotland.

Perhaps Norway should claim them back and blow Scotland's oil industry out of the water....

Precedent is a dangerous concept. Perhaps the UK should reclaim the Oregon country (basically today's Washington & Oregon states) given up in 1846. Perhaps Mexico should reclaim its possessions that cover most of SW and W USA....and so on

It gets worse, all of Africa and even much of South America would be subject to revision. What if Brazil was to throw its weight around?

All of the former soviet era nations must be quite worried and I would anticipate that we will now see a greater militarization of the their borders and an arms race. Russia does not quite appreciate that it will isolate itself. Even the Chinese are concerned, after having had their own border skirmishes with Russia.

I don't usually agree with Senator McCain, but when he called Russia a gas station, he was right.

[bangon04]

Maybe more people should watch RT Russia Today for their information. 3 weeks before the shooting started in Kiev, RT was drawing lines across the map of Ukraine showing how the Russian-speaking "majority" could usefully secede from Ukraine.

RT is now already running stories about the growing calls for a referendum in other parts of eastern Ukraine, and is also warning of the terrible effects of possible "ethnic cleansing" which could/will arise in the near future.

Features today include the threats by Ukrainian extremists to use nuclear weapons against Russia, which will of course require Russian incursions to secure nuclear sites.

Putin is skilled in using the gross hypocrisy of the western powers against them. He also knows that the west is toothless. He will threaten to turn off the gas/oil pipelines. He can afford to do this for a limited time. Germany and Europe cannot afford this.

Love to know where Ukrainian "extremists" plan to source nuclear weapons, given the fact that the last of Ukraine's nuclear warheads was shipped to Russia in June 1996. Hence the Budapest Memorandum which pledged non-interference and respect for Ukraine's sovereignty (shredded by the Russian invasion of Crimea and by earlier cases of economic coercion) in exchange for Ukraine giving up its vast collection of nuclear weapons, and signed by Ukraine, USA, UK and Russia....

Some cretin could easily make a few dirty bombs with reactor rods. (Where is Chernobyl? Anyone remember?) Putin only needs the perceived threats to then justify further action to "protect" Russian interests. The new leaders in Kiev are out of their depth.

[Pakboong]

Maybe more people should watch RT Russia Today for their information. 3 weeks before the shooting started in Kiev, RT was drawing lines across the map of Ukraine showing how the Russian-speaking "majority" could usefully secede from Ukraine.

RT is now already running stories about the growing calls for a referendum in other parts of eastern Ukraine, and is also warning of the terrible effects of possible "ethnic cleansing" which could/will arise in the near future.

Features today include the threats by Ukrainian extremists to use nuclear weapons against Russia, which will of course require Russian incursions to secure nuclear sites.

Putin is skilled in using the gross hypocrisy of the western powers against them. He also knows that the west is toothless. He will threaten to turn off the gas/oil pipelines. He can afford to do this for a limited time. Germany and Europe cannot afford this.

We are stuck with media such as RT simply because the western media will never cover anything contrary to, in the case of the US, that authorized by the press secretary. So you are only faced with these choices. A highly censored and politically micro-managed western media that will only report one side..

Edited March 18, 2014 by Pakboong

[SICHONSTEVE]

It seems to me they had to ask the rest of UKRAINE first for this to really be legit. Seriously, if you were Ukrainian you would be majorly pissed off now (and or depressed), and rightly so.

Not the story of what I've been seeing (unless they smile a lot when they are angry and upset). Maybe if you are one of the 12% minority Muslim population you might not view this the same way though!!!! I just hope that there are no repercussions for them or the other minorities.

I fail to see how you're country being run by Neo-Nazi fascists (supported by America) can be better for anyone - if they got their way then there WOULD be ethnic cleansing throughout the Ukraine!!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Maybe more people should watch RT Russia Today for their information. 3 weeks before the shooting started in Kiev, RT was drawing lines across the map of Ukraine showing how the Russian-speaking "majority" could usefully secede from Ukraine.

RT is now already running stories about the growing calls for a referendum in other parts of eastern Ukraine, and is also warning of the terrible effects of possible "ethnic cleansing" which could/will arise in the near future.

Features today include the threats by Ukrainian extremists to use nuclear weapons against Russia, which will of course require Russian incursions to secure nuclear sites.

Putin is skilled in using the gross hypocrisy of the western powers against them. He also knows that the west is toothless. He will threaten to turn off the gas/oil pipelines. He can afford to do this for a limited time. Germany and Europe cannot afford this.

Love to know where Ukrainian "extremists" plan to source nuclear weapons, given the fact that the last of Ukraine's nuclear warheads was shipped to Russia in June 1996. Hence the Budapest Memorandum which pledged non-interference and respect for Ukraine's sovereignty (shredded by the Russian invasion of Crimea and by earlier cases of economic coercion) in exchange for Ukraine giving up its vast collection of nuclear weapons, and signed by Ukraine, USA, UK and Russia....

Some cretin could easily make a few dirty bombs with reactor rods. (Where is Chernobyl? Anyone remember?) Putin only needs the perceived threats to then justify further action to "protect" Russian interests. The new leaders in Kiev are out of their depth.

This could happen - IN THE NEXT JAMES BOND MOVIE!!!

[Jingthing]

It seems to me they had to ask the rest of UKRAINE first for this to really be legit. Seriously, if you were Ukrainian you would be majorly pissed off now (and or depressed), and rightly so.

Not the story of what I've been seeing (unless they smile a lot when they are angry and upset). Maybe if you are one of the 12% minority Muslim population you might not view this the same way though!!!! I just hope that there are no repercussions for them or the other minorities.

I fail to see how you're country being run by Neo-Nazi fascists (supported by America) can be better for anyone - if they got their way then there WOULD be ethnic cleansing throughout the Ukraine!!!

On top of the Tatars, 25 percent also ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea.

I was talking about consulting ALL of Ukraine in addition to Crimea.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/17/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Click to view: Vote like slowly folding bad movie

AND

The mood is grim in Kiev Square

Edited March 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[gliff]

Yes, I've heard this news. And I hope the world will be peace.

[Jingthing]

On the Crimean Russian forced fake "vote" -- to recap you've got about 35 percent of the people who were not ethnic Russian (Tatars plus Ukraine ethnics) and NO CHOICE to keep with Ukraine. Anyone who believes the almost unanimous results accurately reflect the complex realities there is drinking some pretty strong Vodka.

Problems with it --

Forced by Russian invasion.

Greater Ukraine not consulted (yes it's their business too).

Previous agreements by Russia to Ukraine were trashed.

Minorities felt violently intimidated.

No choice offered to keep status quo of connections to Ukraine.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[Foreignerinthai123]

what russian invasion? There already was a russian base in Crimea as per the agreements between Russia and Ukraine prior to the illegal power grab.

Do you mean to tell me that the US has invaded Thailand, as we have US military bases here to? In fact, looks like the US has invaded the whole world?

Interesting article on what's in store for the rest of Ukraine under their new and unelected leadership. ..

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bitter-taste-of-imf-economic-medicine-what-the-us-backed-regime-is-planning-for-ukrainian-workers/5373554

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[Spartakos]

How about Putin allows for a secession vote in Chechnya?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It would be an easy win for Putin administration. Chechens Have stability and security For the first time in decades. Their alternative is shia law and back to chopping each others heads.

[Jingthing]

what russian invasion? There already was a russian base in Crimea as per the agreements between Russia and Ukraine prior to the illegal power grab.

Do you mean to tell me that the US has invaded Thailand, as we have US military bases here to? In fact, looks like the US has invaded the whole world?

Interesting article on what's in store for the rest of Ukraine under their new and unelected leadership. ..

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bitter-taste-of-imf-economic-medicine-what-the-us-backed-regime-is-planning-for-ukrainian-workers/5373554

This one. Duh!

[Foreignerinthai123]

what russian invasion? There already was a russian base in Crimea as per the agreements between Russia and Ukraine prior to the illegal power grab.

Do you mean to tell me that the US has invaded Thailand, as we have US military bases here to? In fact, looks like the US has invaded the whole world?

Interesting article on what's in store for the rest of Ukraine under their new and unelected leadership. ..

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bitter-taste-of-imf-economic-medicine-what-the-us-backed-regime-is-planning-for-ukrainian-workers/5373554

This one. Duh!

That's some biased reporting right there, massive propaganda. sorry to say but if you base your opinions on that you will not have a balanced view of the events as they are really playing out.

I think in general the people on this forum have a good experience in identifying that same bias in the western media reporting on the protests here in Thailand, 2010, 2014, with plenty of examples of complete misrepresentation of the actual situation.

I saw the videos of the brutality and aggression of the ukrainian protesters , which apparently was allright for the western media, and here you show me a video without violence, just some troops being present in an area they are legally allowed to have a presence of something like 22.000 troops.

I wouldn't go as far as saying the russians are the good guys, but in this particular case they have the moral high ground, it will become appallingly obvious in the future when the rest of the Ukraine is reduced to poverty for the enrichment of the international bankers, whilst Crimea will be fairly well off.

[Jingthing]

Russia invaded Crimea. That is a fact. In my view, if people aren't willing to accept such basic facts, there is no basis for rational discussion. Russia also forced this engineered vote and is getting ready to annex Crimea which is totally against their previous promise to respect the borders of Ukraine, which include Crimea. Facing reality, Ukraine has lost Crimea. The question now is what next. Nobody knows of course. Putin may know what he plans to do but then there is the potential reaction which may change the plan.

You are saying based on the way the government was changed in Kiev that Putin had a good reason to invade Crimea. Now that is something that could be legitimately debated by sincere people. To suggest Putin never invaded Crimea is totally absurd.

Putin having the moral high ground? That's a hilarious thought. He's a strongman dictator of a thugocracy.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[drx13]

The harshest penalty the EU and US can impose is cutting Russia off from the western banking system,"

Doesn't sound like a penalty at all...sounds more like a blessing.

There we go again. The US trying to intervene in a foreign country.

Ukraine is under Russian influence, so is Crimea.
The US supported Saddam Hussein, Ferdinando Marcos, Anastasio Somoza, when they were slaughtering their people.
How many times do we have to repeat the same mistake?
US hegemony is a thing of the past.
Let's worry about the national debt.

[sotsira]

Russia invaded Crimea. That is a fact. In my view, if people aren't willing to accept such basic facts, there is no basis for rational discussion. Russia also forced this engineered vote and is getting ready to annex Crimea which is totally against their previous promise to respect the borders of Ukraine, which include Crimea. Facing reality, Ukraine has lost Crimea. The question now is what next. Nobody knows of course. Putin may know what he plans to do but then there is the potential reaction which may change the plan.

You are saying based on the way the government was changed in Kiev that Putin had a good reason to invade Crimea. Now that is something that could be legitimately debated by sincere people. To suggest Putin never invaded Crimea is totally absurd.

Putin having the moral high ground? That's a hilarious thought. He's a strongman dictator of a thugocracy.

Irrelevant of whether you want to call it an invasion or not, this is actually a political manoeuvre by Putin to protect his military interests in Crimea due to his military bases already in Crimea, and the majority of the Crimean population that consider themselves to be Russians.

This has all come about due to the overthrow of the Ukrainian government which was an ally

of Russia, and Putin has acted to protect his interests against the West who the new Ukranian government want to be allied with.

[Foreignerinthai123]

Russia invaded Crimea. That is a fact. In my view, if people aren't willing to accept such basic facts, there is no basis for rational discussion. Russia also forced this engineered vote and is getting ready to annex Crimea which is totally against their previous promise to respect the borders of Ukraine, which include Crimea. Facing reality, Ukraine has lost Crimea. The question now is what next. Nobody knows of course. Putin may know what he plans to do but then there is the potential reaction which may change the plan.

You are saying based on the way the government was changed in Kiev that Putin had a good reason to invade Crimea. Now that is something that could be legitimately debated by sincere people. To suggest Putin never invaded Crimea is totally absurd.

Putin having the moral high ground? That's a hilarious thought. He's a strongman dictator of a thugocracy.

See this article which explains the agreement Russia has with Ukraine about it's military presence in Crimea, agreement ratified since 1999

http://rt.com/news/russian-troops-crimea-ukraine-816/

now, explain to me why this is then an invasion, russian troops who were stationed in the autonomous republic of Crimea were already there when unidentified armed people on orders from Kiev tried to take over the building of the (legally elected) ministry of internal affairs of the autonomous republic of Crimea.

If russia forced this engineered vote, do you really think 81.7% would show up to vote, and 96% would vote in favor of joining Russia, and that afterwards the people would celebrate in the streets? If you have ever seen engineered votes under intimidation you would know that such events looks much different.

Putin has the moral high ground in this case.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Russia invaded Crimea. That is a fact. In my view, if people aren't willing to accept such basic facts, there is no basis for rational discussion. Russia also forced this engineered vote and is getting ready to annex Crimea which is totally against their previous promise to respect the borders of Ukraine, which include Crimea. Facing reality, Ukraine has lost Crimea. The question now is what next. Nobody knows of course. Putin may know what he plans to do but then there is the potential reaction which may change the plan.

You are saying based on the way the government was changed in Kiev that Putin had a good reason to invade Crimea. Now that is something that could be legitimately debated by sincere people. To suggest Putin never invaded Crimea is totally absurd.

Putin having the moral high ground? That's a hilarious thought. He's a strongman dictator of a thugocracy.

See this article which explains the agreement Russia has with Ukraine about it's military presence in Crimea, agreement ratified since 1999

http://rt.com/news/russian-troops-crimea-ukraine-816/

now, explain to me why this is then an invasion, russian troops who were stationed in the autonomous republic of Crimea were already there when unidentified armed people on orders from Kiev tried to take over the building of the (legally elected) ministry of internal affairs of the autonomous republic of Crimea.

If russia forced this engineered vote, do you really think 81.7% would show up to vote, and 96% would vote in favor of joining Russia, and that afterwards the people would celebrate in the streets? If you have ever seen engineered votes under intimidation you would know that such events looks much different.

Putin has the moral high ground in this case.

No question - the Crimean's will be far better off under the Russian umbrella than being ruled by the bunch of proven fascist neo-Nazi leaders (chosen unbelievably so by the Western and American governments) to lead Ukraine.

If you see what they have in store and lined up for them then it is going to be like living in hell in the Ukraine!!!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if other parts of the Ukraine want to join up with the Crimean's for a better life.

[F430murci]

Maybe more people should watch RT Russia Today for their information. 3 weeks before the shooting started in Kiev, RT was drawing lines across the map of Ukraine showing how the Russian-speaking "majority" could usefully secede from Ukraine.

RT is now already running stories about the growing calls for a referendum in other parts of eastern Ukraine, and is also warning of the terrible effects of possible "ethnic cleansing" which could/will arise in the near future.

Features today include the threats by Ukrainian extremists to use nuclear weapons against Russia, which will of course require Russian incursions to secure nuclear sites.

Putin is skilled in using the gross hypocrisy of the western powers against them. He also knows that the west is toothless. He will threaten to turn off the gas/oil pipelines. He can afford to do this for a limited time. Germany and Europe cannot afford this.

We are stuck with media such as RT simply because the western media will never cover anything contrary to, in the case of the US, that authorized by the press secretary. So you are only faced with these choices. A highly censored and politically micro-managed western media that will only report one side..

Huh, are you stoned? Do you even watch US news. Half of it completely bashes Obama and everything he does or says. If that happened in Russia, FSB would show up at your home and at the TV station armed with automatic weapons to take you on a vacation. Putin even did a hostile takeover of vk.com because Durov allowed a political opposition poster to post views on vk. Durov fled Russia, FSB showed up at vk offices and Duriv's partnersysteriously sold their shares to one of Putin's guys. Western media is all over the place and is actually reporting exactly Putin says, but they also report evidence to the contrary.

[whoisyourdaddy]

Russia invaded Crimea. That is a fact. In my view, if people aren't willing to accept such basic facts, there is no basis for rational discussion. Russia also forced this engineered vote and is getting ready to annex Crimea which is totally against their previous promise to respect the borders of Ukraine, which include Crimea. Facing reality, Ukraine has lost Crimea. The question now is what next. Nobody knows of course. Putin may know what he plans to do but then there is the potential reaction which may change the plan.

You are saying based on the way the government was changed in Kiev that Putin had a good reason to invade Crimea. Now that is something that could be legitimately debated by sincere people. To suggest Putin never invaded Crimea is totally absurd.

Putin having the moral high ground? That's a hilarious thought. He's a strongman dictator of a thugocracy.

That's funny Jing, considering today Putin and kremlin recognized Crimea as an independent state.http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-recognises-crimea-independent-sovereign-state-1440696

I guess your sources forget to mention it as it would make them look silly

Edited March 18, 2014 by whoisyourdaddy