Would Buddha approve?

[jaideeguy]

Just wondering if Buddha would approve of...............

Millionaire Monks??

Loud fund raisers that disturb neighbors 3 kilometers away??

The selling of whiskey on wat grounds??

The selling of whiskey to teen agers and the violence that often follows??

Coyote dancers at the fund raisers??

Monks that you see shopping for I phones??

Monks stealing from monks??

and other things that seem hypocritical and an insult to Buddha

all of the above I have witnessed with my own eyes

would he approve??

[hookedondhamma]

I think he would probably approve of you not thinking so much of other's blatant wrongdoings.

Obviously people in robes that do things not so appropriate that damage the perception of Buddhism aren't monks. And the same could probably be said of those laypeople selling items and other things to those dressed as such.

Westerners get disturbed so easily.

People will continue to pursue what they believe as happiness via whichever way (s) they choose.

In a perfect world all Buddhists would be pure as crystal. But the world isn't perfect.

You really don't have to think so much.

I will say though you probably would get the answers you really wanted if you had posted in the general forum.

[Neeranam]

I think he would approve the buying of iphones. Monks have to keep up with the times.

[jaideeguy]

well, answer me this............are the above mentioned a [Thai] cultural wrong doing or is a Buddhist wrong doing.

I'm not trying to bash Buddhism or Thai culture, just trying to understand.

[Neeranam]

well, answer me this............are the above mentioned a [Thai] cultural wrong doing or is a Buddhist wrong doing.

I'm not trying to bash Buddhism or Thai culture, just trying to understand.

Thai cultural obviously. Kinda like me getting drunk at Christmas and sing terrible at the midnight service.

[Neeranam]

Thais in my country don't go around asking if Jesus Christ would approve when a minister has a drink or buys a phone selling alcohol on the Sabbath etc.

[hookedondhamma]

well, answer me this............are the above mentioned a [Thai] cultural wrong doing or is a Buddhist wrong doing.

I'm not trying to bash Buddhism or Thai culture, just trying to understand.

I would say culture. I came to the conclusion that a lot of culture crosses into what is Buddhism, things get more relaxed etc. ... but then people start to complain (especially if it gets onto the International stage) and 'action' is taken to prevent it.

The problem is by then it's too late - action wasn't taken before so why now?

Truth be told it's not even worth questioning - just keep working on progressing your practice.

[jaideeguy]

But, isn't it turning a blind eye/ear when the wats profit from the cultural weakness of the Thais? On several occasions I've witnessed drunks fight and quickly exited my family when shots were fired overhead and onto the stage.

[fabianfred]

The only one of the above list of the OP which is not wrong is buying iphones..

A monk who steals is defeated and no longer a monk...just posing as one.

Abbots who allow their community to have dancing, drinking, gambling etc. at a temple fair either....don't care; just put up with it because they don't want to annoy the villagers who support the temple; grew up with it and don't see it as wrong...

Many things have become custom...which were not in older times.

Loud music is wrong ...it disturbs neighbours ...destroys the peace which temples used to be a haven for... disturbs the practice of those monks who wish to meditate (although there are not so many of them anymore).

A serious abbot who runs a temple devoted to practice would not allow any of the above ..but the followers would be those who are interested in true practice...not drunks.

[jaideeguy]

The only one of the above list of the OP which is not wrong is buying iphones..

A monk who steals is defeated and no longer a monk...just posing as one.

Abbots who allow their community to have dancing, drinking, gambling etc. at a temple fair either....don't care; just put up with it because they don't want to annoy the villagers who support the temple; grew up with it and don't see it as wrong...

Many things have become custom...which were not in older times.

Loud music is wrong ...it disturbs neighbours ...destroys the peace which temples used to be a haven for... disturbs the practice of those monks who wish to meditate (although there are not so many of them anymore).

A serious abbot who runs a temple devoted to practice would not allow any of the above ..but the followers would be those who are interested in true practice...not drunks.

Thanks Fred for your explanation..............it makes a lot of sense and the same can be said for Christianity as well. It seems that culture is the real culprit to most religions in diluting and changing the essence of the religion as it was originally interpreted.

Over my last 60 years I have indulged in, been exposed to and studied most of the major religions of the world and have come to the conclusion that they hold onto some of the original teachings and adapt other parts to their cultural environment.....................for better and/or worse.

Altho I consider myself an atheist at this stage in my life, I still try to live by the basics that they all say in different words...................'Do good/get good', 'do unto others, bla bla'

Thanks for all the feedback and thanks especially for not taking offence to my questioning mind.

Edited March 19, 2014 by jaideeguy

[Sheryl]

The Buddha laid down a very specific and detailed code of conduct for monks.

Most of what you describe clearly violates it.

[zyphodb]

I frequently imagine if The Buddha came back & walked around Thailand's streets & Wat's, in my mind he would be walking around slowly with a smile & gently shaking his head rather like an old Builder listening to how you want your house built...

[1Ping1]

No more than God would approve of Catholic Priests molesting little boys and being pedophiles........................

[uptheos]

They certainly violate Buddha's code, but I would imagine he'd say something like, "OK you know the score, up to you".

[Phoenix1312]

You also need to add women hitting on married farangs and using anything to break up marriages. The one who broke up mine also apparently just came out of living in a monetary with the monks for 7 years. I don't think Buddha would approve. Oh and this is the 3rd marriage she has broken up lol.

[Trentham]

If an abbot strictly adhered to Buddhist principles he would quickly lose most of his congregation.

[jaideeguy]

It seems that it's the people who control the religions and not the religions that control [guide] the people............just like all the other religions??

[stickylies]

the imaginary friend called Buddha doesn't care. I hope this answers your question.

[oxo1947]

You also need to add women hitting on married farangs and using anything to break up marriages. The one who broke up mine also apparently just came out of living in a monetary with the monks for 7 years. I don't think Buddha would approve. Oh and this is the 3rd marriage she has broken up lol.

As long as your not bitter about it........That's the main thing................

[prakhonchai nick]

The Buddha laid down a very specific and detailed code of conduct for monks.

Most of what you describe clearly violates it.

Did he?

I doubt he was even aware that there would be Monks 2,500 years after his death, and he certainly would not have been aware of coyote dancers and whisky!

Surely the codes of conduct are laid down by the most senior of monks, and apply to all monks and wats and should therefore be complied with. Never mind local customs. Obey or do not be a monk!

[chutai]

The Buddha laid down a very specific and detailed code of conduct for monks.

Most of what you describe clearly violates it.

Except that the rules of the sangha were formulated circa 100 years after Buddha Shayamuni's passing.

My reading of what the Buddha actually said was mostly advice on behaviour that is conducive to a clear conscience and makes you happy. A transformation of mind.

Anyone who tries to fathom the depths of Buddhism won't find many tules as such, but only only conduct that avoids falling into bad karma.

As for monks , I've tried to reason with Thai persons occasionally , that wearing a saffron robe does not exclude anyone from being human with all the delusionary baggage that ,by nature, comes with it. On the other hand there are those - whom like the Buddha - illuminate on the way.

Just think less of condemnation I think best , more think if I was a follower of the Buddha's teachings I wouldn't behave in that way.

Even if the annoying din from a Wat can be a right pain, it's just a reflection of Thai ways and not Buddhism per se. If these things disappeared then so would much of Thai traditional culture - which has more to do with a mish-mash of Buddhism, Hinduism, Animism , commercialism and being Thai than it does reflect on the profound truths found beneath the surface.

[The Usual Suspect]

Here's my two bahts worth, take it or leave it.

We cannot change others behavior, only our reaction to it. My family will go to the wat for the fundraisers, but leave the

minute the loud music and ridiculous behavior starts. I once asked my mother-in-law why they didn't stay and she just smiled

and said, "bor pen yang". From my experience as a Buddhist, we are taught to look at worldly things with a "cool eye". That

means that we try not to form opinions of right or wrong, good or bad etc. We just observe, take it for what it is,

and move on.

I suspect the abbots of these wats are simply allowing these functions from this viewpoint.

[rockyysdt]

I don't think it really matters whether the Buddha approves or not.

The real question is, "Why are people Buddhists?"

Everyone's actions (Kharma) will eventually bear fruit (Vipaka), regardless of whether there is approval or not.

This is regardless of whether it was driven by Greed, Aversion, or Delusion.

A colleague of mine has the following attributes due to his lifestyle.

• 40 Kgs over weight.
• Waste line 50% larger than his chest (considered auditioning for the Michelin Man role).
• High blood pressure.
• Heavy smoker.
• Sedentary lifestyle.
• High fat, high sugar processed diet and avoids fresh fruit & vegetables.
• No regular exercise.
• Constant wheezing noise when he breathes (sounds like Darth Vader).
• Sweats constantly when performing light tasks.

He likes to tell people that he visits a gym daily.

It's true, but only to mind his young son who works out for his sport.

Whether a Buddhist or not, whatever ones actions, rest assured, these will bear fruit.

To cheat is to cheat oneself.

Edited March 21, 2014 by rockyysdt

[MW72]

well, answer me this............are the above mentioned a [Thai] cultural wrong doing or is a Buddhist wrong doing.

I'm not trying to bash Buddhism or Thai culture, just trying to understand.

I would like to think that Buddha would not approve but I am quite ignorant of his teachings so I couldn't say for sure. What I think I can say is that all of the things you have mentioned happen not due to Buddhism or Thai culture but due to human nature. These things happen the world over regardless of race, religion or culture.

[techboy]

I believe that Buddha would acknowledge human imperfections and he would not judge a lack of ethics but encourage the people to find the knowledge, insight and strength to overcome them. The word "approve" per se does not really fit. Furthermore most of the items that you cite are actually you trying to pass a verdict based on your personal opinions.

[Pii Kate]

Don't forget the observant Buddhist who are meat eaters.

[khunsuar]

Don't forget the observant Buddhist who are meat eaters.

I do not find any injunction from the Buddha on not eating meat. I do find one admonishing someone for killing for their own benefit.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Razer64]

So glad I am anti-theist an anti-state.

In 200 years, hopefully much less, all belief in god, religion, and the state will be wiped out forever and be put in their proper places in the historical records as the greatest threats, plagues, and jokes ever perpetuated upon mankind.

I'm a Buddha, Yer a Buddha, wouldn't you like to be a Buddha too?!!!!!!!

[dighambara]

All are forbidden: Money, any intoxicant (including Betel), cigarettes, phones, TVs, radios, cars,...

One may notice that devout Monks don't even wear shores or sandals

[prakhonchai nick]

All are forbidden: Money, any intoxicant (including Betel), cigarettes, phones, TVs, radios, cars,...

One may notice that devout Monks don't even wear shores or sandals

There are supposedly more than 1 million monks in Thailand. What a farce! How many disobey the rules?

Get rid of the ones who do not obey the set down rules (by the elite council -not by Buddha himself),-no doubt the majority - and the Thai people (particularly the Isaan poor who are goaded on the village loudspeakers to give their all to the Wats and Monks would have more to spend on their families!