NACC to probe Yingluck's role in ministers' speeches

[HonestQuietBob]

Another Court Case!! Excellent Work

Go Team Yellow

Fight Team Yellow

Win Team Yellow

Maybe they cannnot win an election, but does it matter

I think not

It amazes me that no matter what the subject matter is it always gets turned into "elections" The only principle of democracy that the PTP adhere too and it is always refurred back too. Never the other principles of democracy like "rule of law" or "freedom of speech", freedom of beliefs", "equal protection under the law" Why? Because the PTP don't adhere to those principles. So in a way you can definitely say the PTP are democratic. 1/15th democratic. I am 1/15^th Irish and know a few Irish jokes, but I know nothing about Ireland and their culture. So one could postulate that the PTP know nothing about democracy and that my friend has been shown by them constantly.

When ever there is an OP I might start saying

Another Court Case!! Excellent Work

Go Team Red

Fight Team Red

Win Team Red

Maybe they cannot respect the rule of law, freedom of beliefs, freedom of speech and equal protection under the law, but does it matter

I think not

1/15th democratic and your proud of it!! That's PTP logic right there.

No need to be amazed my dear friend, let me explain it for you.

To normal people 1 + 1 = 2

but to a minority of fruitcakes in Thailand 1 + 1 = Thaksin is the devil, let's have a coup.

Any legitimate government can only begin with the winning of elections, therefore, elections are important.

Even your Irish ancestors believe in and practice democracy.

Give Granny a call and check.

Edited March 20, 2014 by HonestQuietBob

[djjamie]

Another Court Case!! Excellent Work

Go Team Yellow

Fight Team Yellow

Win Team Yellow

Maybe they cannnot win an election, but does it matter

I think not

It amazes me that no matter what the subject matter is it always gets turned into "elections" The only principle of democracy that the PTP adhere too and it is always refurred back too. Never the other principles of democracy like "rule of law" or "freedom of speech", freedom of beliefs", "equal protection under the law" Why? Because the PTP don't adhere to those principles. So in a way you can definitely say the PTP are democratic. 1/15th democratic. I am 1/15^th Irish and know a few Irish jokes, but I know nothing about Ireland and their culture. So one could postulate that the PTP know nothing about democracy and that my friend has been shown by them constantly.

When ever there is an OP I might start saying

Another Court Case!! Excellent Work

Go Team Red

Fight Team Red

Win Team Red

Maybe they cannot respect the rule of law, freedom of beliefs, freedom of speech and equal protection under the law, but does it matter

I think not

1/15th democratic and your proud of it!! That's PTP logic right there.

No need to be amazed my dear friend, let me explain it for you.

To normal people 1 + 1 = 2

but to a minority of fruitcakes in Thailand 1 + 1 = Thaksin is the devil, let's have a coup.

Any legitimate government can only begin with the winning of elections, therefore, elections are important.

Even your Irish ancestors believe in and practice democracy.

Give Granny a call and check.

So you still harp on about elections while ignoring the 14 other principles that the PTP don't adhere too. You typify my point in case. You don't care if the other principles are not adhered to as long as they win elections this allows them to have carte blanche in adhering to undemocratic traits.

Any legitimate government can only begin with the winning of elections, therefore, elections are important.

Great, completely agree. Can't ague with that. That government however become illegitimate when it does not adhere to the other principles of democracy. I am talking post ballot box. That is where democracy begins. Not ceases.

​Then you state they support democracy in Ireland…Well I didn't know that. I am only 1/15th Irish. So through your argument you have further reinforced my argument that the PTP are not democratic for only following 1 principle out of 15. They know as much about democracy as I do about Ireland so thanks for reinforcing my argument.

By the way - notice I didn't show any condescension towards you in my reply. Feel free to remove it from your replies as well.

Edited March 20, 2014 by djjamie

[rickirs]

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Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

The PDRC has never talked loosely about overthrowing the government. It has always been very explicit about it. But these so-called independent agencies that got their origins from the Democrat government seem very focused solely on the PTP and give the PDRC a pass on its very blatant efforts to overthrow the government through unconstitutional means than through democratic means. NACC's latest probe is just another further abuse of its own powers.

[GeorgeO]

"The NACC seems to think that Yingluck should have restrained ministers in a distant province and then should have taken "punitive actions against the two ministers for their unbecoming conduct"."

... and you believe there is something wrong with that...?!

[jayboy]

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

1. Former Democrat MPs involved in the PDRC rallies were careful to resign beforehand.

2. Calling for the overthrow of a government is a democratic right in Thailand. Secession is not.

Not even a good try...

Actually you are wrong.What has often been advocated from the PDRC platform is sedition, the overthrow of an elected government.In most countries those involved would have been facing charges.Having said that I agree that in a robustly democratic country one should err on the side of tolerance.But I'm not sure that loose talk about secession (which would not have taken place if not provoked by seditious movement in Bangkok) is any more illegal than actual sedition.In any case many Muslim Thais from the Southern Provinces have been advocating secession for decades - and nobody (except posturing nincompoops of the NACC/military top brass variety) would think of making this a criminal offence.

[robblok]

This is ridiculous. If the NACC investigated the PMs role in her own speeches, they'd struggle to find any evidence.

I am anti government and they should go after those 2 ministers not YL she might be the boss but it only goes this far.

This is almost the same as what Tarit is doing.

[gemini81]

The speeches are too incoherent to be analyzed and interpreted in both Thai and English.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

1. Former Democrat MPs involved in the PDRC rallies were careful to resign beforehand.

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

2. Calling for the overthrow of a government is a democratic right in Thailand. Secession is not.

Not even a good try...

Actually you are wrong.What has often been advocated from the PDRC platform is sedition, the overthrow of an elected government.In most countries those involved would have been facing charges.Having said that I agree that in a robustly democratic country one should err on the side of tolerance.But I'm not sure that loose talk about secession (which would not have taken place if not provoked by seditious movement in Bangkok) is any more illegal than actual sedition.In any case many Muslim Thais from the Southern Provinces have been advocating secession for decades - and nobody (except posturing nincompoops of the NACC/military top brass variety) would think of making this a criminal offence.

And you conveniently forget to mention that the Thai constitution says that people have the right to protest.

[Lupatria]

"In reaction to this, caretaker Labour Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung wondered how Yingluck could be held responsible for what Charupong said, as she was just a member of a political party of which Charupong was the leader."

Isn't that exactly what saved Chalerm's butt for way too long already?

[Goat Roper]

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

One or two but the Democrats are not in charge of the country!! Next!

[Bakseeda]

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

I don't think they spoke loosely.. overthrowing this corrupt government is the open goal....

[Baerboxer]

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

1. Former Democrat MPs involved in the PDRC rallies were careful to resign beforehand.

2. Calling for the overthrow of a government is a democratic right in Thailand. Secession is not.

Not even a good try...

Actually you are wrong.What has often been advocated from the PDRC platform is sedition, the overthrow of an elected government.In most countries those involved would have been facing charges.Having said that I agree that in a robustly democratic country one should err on the side of tolerance.But I'm not sure that loose talk about secession (which would not have taken place if not provoked by seditious movement in Bangkok) is any more illegal than actual sedition.In any case many Muslim Thais from the Southern Provinces have been advocating secession for decades - and nobody (except posturing nincompoops of the NACC/military top brass variety) would think of making this a criminal offence.

Utter piffle.

In most countries a government that has been shown to lie, cheat, break the law, incite people to disobey the law would be thrown out, not even considering the numerous corruption and mismanagement issues.

No one has been convicted of sedition - simply something you have decided applied to those who have a different view to yourself.

Secession and inciting armed rebellion are serious offences in most countries. Treason, which it is, is usually one of the most heavily punished serious crimes. That PTP ministers openly speak at a public gathering encouraging this treason whilst being filmed is much more than the "loose talk" you try and pass it off has. It reveals the extreme contempt and arrogance PTP usually display to all other than themselves, their contempt for the very country, its traditions and laws. They have shown they are prepared to lie and cheat in parliament and have displayed a propensity for violence to enforce their views.

That caretaker government ministers are prepared to publicly advocate armed rebellion is a measure of how far these criminals are prepared to go to keep power.

YL should have immediately censured these traitors and removed them from the caretaker administration. But they were probably following orders just like she has to,

The suggested defense "we only committed treason and encouraged armed rebellion because of seditious actions against us" is nonsense and pathetic. The government should enforce the law - something they do like doing because it doesn't suit their agenda and they don't think it applies to them.

[than]

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

First one, There are a big difference between oust a corrupt government and destroy the Country

Second, NACC not investigate on political people but on Minister who give this smelly speech.......

[jayboy]

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

1. Former Democrat MPs involved in the PDRC rallies were careful to resign beforehand.

2. Calling for the overthrow of a government is a democratic right in Thailand. Secession is not.

Not even a good try...

Actually you are wrong.What has often been advocated from the PDRC platform is sedition, the overthrow of an elected government.In most countries those involved would have been facing charges.Having said that I agree that in a robustly democratic country one should err on the side of tolerance.But I'm not sure that loose talk about secession (which would not have taken place if not provoked by seditious movement in Bangkok) is any more illegal than actual sedition.In any case many Muslim Thais from the Southern Provinces have been advocating secession for decades - and nobody (except posturing nincompoops of the NACC/military top brass variety) would think of making this a criminal offence.

Utter piffle.

In most countries a government that has been shown to lie, cheat, break the law, incite people to disobey the law would be thrown out, not even considering the numerous corruption and mismanagement issues.

No one has been convicted of sedition - simply something you have decided applied to those who have a different view to yourself.

Secession and inciting armed rebellion are serious offences in most countries. Treason, which it is, is usually one of the most heavily punished serious crimes. That PTP ministers openly speak at a public gathering encouraging this treason whilst being filmed is much more than the "loose talk" you try and pass it off has. It reveals the extreme contempt and arrogance PTP usually display to all other than themselves, their contempt for the very country, its traditions and laws. They have shown they are prepared to lie and cheat in parliament and have displayed a propensity for violence to enforce their views.

That caretaker government ministers are prepared to publicly advocate armed rebellion is a measure of how far these criminals are prepared to go to keep power.

YL should have immediately censured these traitors and removed them from the caretaker administration. But they were probably following orders just like she has to,

The suggested defense "we only committed treason and encouraged armed rebellion because of seditious actions against us" is nonsense and pathetic. The government should enforce the law - something they do like doing because it doesn't suit their agenda and they don't think it applies to them.

You are very muddled in your analysis but you actually inadvertently make my key point for me.Suthep is on record as calling on the army to overthrow the democratically elected government, ie armed rebellion.He has (to date) failed and we will see whether charges of sedition will be pursued in the future - though I suspect they won't.The whole PDRC strategy is to provoke violence.

As to charges against the government (as with those against Suthep) these should be pursued in the courts.However it is reasonable that the courts and related independent agencies should demonstrate they are non partisan.This is an uncertain area in Thail;and

[Jonmarleesco]

Chalerm Yoobamrung wondered how Yingluck could be held responsible for what Charupong said. I'm not sure anyone seriously holds Yingluck responsible, for anything, but since PTP have always insisted she is Thailand's PM - and the country's leader - the Baht stops with her.

[Lite Beer]

NACC denies bullying PM for investigating her separatism supporting charge

BANGKOK, 20 Mar 2014, (NNT) - The National Anti- Corruption Commission has denied allegations that the agency abused its power, harassing Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra by investigating her inferred involvement with separatism.

The allegation against Ms Yingluck stemmed from an event where the premier did nothing to prevent Interior Minister Jarupong Reungsuwan and Deputy Commerce Minister Nutthawut Saikua, from making remarks that carried a strong implication of separatism, and of invoking violence against independent agencies during the recent gathering of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) in Nakhon Ratchasima Province.

Mr. Precha Lertmalamart, the NACC official responsible for the case explained that the investigation would determine whether or not the Prime Minister’s lack of action was intentional, saying if it proved to be so, Ms. Yingluck may have to face a negligence of duties charge. He reaffirmed to the public that the NACC does not wish to harass the premier, adding that the agency is simply doing its job and would give the prime minister every opportunity to defend herself.

-- NNT 2014-03-20

[bigbamboo]

Have to defend Yingluck on this.

She has little enough input into her own speeches so how can she be accused of interfering with those of others.

[Scamper]

This is serious business, because the NACC is right. On February 23, Chaupong and Nuttawut attended and endorsed a UDD platform that included secession. The video tape of the meeting has been seen all around the world, and texts from it have been duly recorded in newspapers since. Yingluck was then caretaker prime minister ( she still maintains she is, so congratulations - that now makes the infractions even more severe ). She had a duty to fire them on the spot and to demand prosecution. Not only did she not do that, she didn't acknowledge the unconstitutional meeting. Not only that, but she failed to address the issue, or even privately reprimand them, or even talk to them about it. By so doing, she failed miserably in her sworn obligation to uphold the constitution. Can you imagine - in any other country - if two cabinet ministers endorsed a platform of secession - what the prime minister would do ? Well, that is what is supposed to happen. The less said about Chalerm's nonsensical comments the better. Yingluck's beyond the penal code is she, Chalerm ? Well, that will be big news to the NACC. Perhaps you would care to put forth that Lewis Carroll defense to them personally yourself ?

[ramrod711]

In his complaint, Wiratana alleged that Yingluck had committed malfeasance and dereliction of duty by failing to stop caretaker Interior Minister Charupong Ruangsuwan and caretaker deputy Commerce Minister Nuttawut Saikuar from inciting red-shirt supporters to commit the unconstitutional offence of trying to divide the country.

Poor Yingluck besieged with court cases, charge after charge. Time for her to pass some of this stuff on to someone with broad shoulders, someone who would welcome some of the heat. There happens to be just such a man in the PTP/UDD. Nattawut Saikuar, a man with no fear, made the offer in 2010, you know, when he said burn your city halls etc. "I will take responsibility". It seems patently unfair that he has never been given the opportunity to do that. Remember, one volunteer is worth ten pressed men, let him respond to the charges personally.

[kratiam]

"The NACC seems to think that Yingluck should have restrained ministers in a distant province and then should have taken "punitive actions against the two ministers for their unbecoming conduct"."

... and you believe there is something wrong with that...?

Well I do! The PM is responsible for the behaviour and conduct of the people she appoints and they should not need any control anyway. If they really believe in the sort of things they contributed to they should have, IN ADVANCE, done the decent thing and resigned before attending that event. But then, decency isn't normal associated with cynical, calculating and dishonest morons!.

[rubl]

You are very muddled in your analysis but you actually inadvertently make my key point for me.Suthep is on record as calling on the army to overthrow the democratically elected government, ie armed rebellion.He has (to date) failed and we will see whether charges of sedition will be pursued in the future - though I suspect they won't.The whole PDRC strategy is to provoke violence.

As to charges against the government (as with those against Suthep) these should be pursued in the courts.However it is reasonable that the courts and related independent agencies should demonstrate they are non partisan.This is an uncertain area in Thail;and

If Suthep calls on the army to get rid of the undemocratic "thanks for voting, now go home' government that may be incorrect, but certainly not an "armed rebellion". Also the remark on 'sedition' seems a bit strange here, although I must admit the government was really surprised with all those anti-government protests just because they tried to undemocratically push through a blanket amnesty bill which even managed to cover the first two years of Ms. Yinglucks government. Ever since the government has tried to blame the others. The anti-government protesters have been targetted not only by lawsuits and arrest warrants but also by violence from day one. Still nightly unrest and an totally ineffective police who only manages to get more arrest warrants for anti-government protesters, but no idea who is behind the violence against them.

BTW with a criminal fugitive ordering his cabinet around the 'democratically elected' part seems a bit hypocritical. To have said government talk about sedition and even have ministers being present at a UDD meeting which talked about violence and secession makes your comments here somewhat fraudulent.

[JAG]

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

Not a problem, NACC will not touch them - they are the good people after all.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thesetat2013]

You can maintain whatever fictions help you sleep well at night, but the courts have been on the democratic side since 04 at least.

Does acknowledging reality somehow upset you

If you are going to be living in Thailand for any length of time you better be able to deal with it - and at least have a laugh about it.

So you came up with an example to suit your agenda. I stated "You show me a DEM PM that has been on a cooking show and has not been impeached and then your argument is valid. Until then it holds no weight" then you dismiss that obviously due to your admission that I am correct and then purport to say you are still right.

You cannot prove yourself correct through the example you gave so simply say "I am right and you are wrong" and throw in a comment about my sleeping patterns. Brilliant rebuttal there.

That's how PTP debate in parliament as well.

Do you honestly think the PTPdebate in parliament? If a MP doesn't like the topic they don't go and then another MP votes for them using extra voting cards. This way the PTP MP doesn't get into trouble or lose money from the BIG boss in Dubai

[rubl]

Careful what you wish for, how many democrats have taken to the PDRC stage speaking loosely over 'overthrowing' the govt.

Not a problem, NACC will not touch them - they are the good people after all.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Both a load of manure.

The Democrat party MP's resigned before really joining the anti-government protests. that's why the NACC doesn't go after them.

[Morch]

Chalerm said Suporn was just "having fun".

Happy Times!

[kuthow]

Chalerm said Suporn was just "having fun".

Happy Times!

Indeed. The depicted red shirt leader above, Isaan Rambo, is also another Yingluck appointee...to a senior staff position, Suporn.

OP:

In response to questions about a photograph of red-shirt leader and PM's Deputy Secretary-General Suporn Atthawong with a group of "volunteers supporting secession in Sakon Nakhon"

And just like Nattawut below, what did think would happen when she chose these maniacs?

More malfeasance displayed by Yingluck by selecting a delusional Rambo to her own taxpayer financed staff.

It's long overdue for Yingluck to take responsibility for selecting a multiple-indicted-out-on-bail red shirt Nattawut to be a member of her Cabinet.

What did she expect he would do?

She should have expected him to do exactly what he ended up doing with his call to arms and secession in his fiery speeches in Korat.

There are consequences for such malfeasance by her.

.

[Baerboxer]

Utter piffle.

In most countries a government that has been shown to lie, cheat, break the law, incite people to disobey the law would be thrown out, not even considering the numerous corruption and mismanagement issues.

No one has been convicted of sedition - simply something you have decided applied to those who have a different view to yourself.

Secession and inciting armed rebellion are serious offences in most countries. Treason, which it is, is usually one of the most heavily punished serious crimes. That PTP ministers openly speak at a public gathering encouraging this treason whilst being filmed is much more than the "loose talk" you try and pass it off has. It reveals the extreme contempt and arrogance PTP usually display to all other than themselves, their contempt for the very country, its traditions and laws. They have shown they are prepared to lie and cheat in parliament and have displayed a propensity for violence to enforce their views.

That caretaker government ministers are prepared to publicly advocate armed rebellion is a measure of how far these criminals are prepared to go to keep power.

YL should have immediately censured these traitors and removed them from the caretaker administration. But they were probably following orders just like she has to,

The suggested defense "we only committed treason and encouraged armed rebellion because of seditious actions against us" is nonsense and pathetic. The government should enforce the law - something they do like doing because it doesn't suit their agenda and they don't think it applies to them.

You are very muddled in your analysis but you actually inadvertently make my key point for me.Suthep is on record as calling on the army to overthrow the democratically elected government, ie armed rebellion.He has (to date) failed and we will see whether charges of sedition will be pursued in the future - though I suspect they won't.The whole PDRC strategy is to provoke violence.

As to charges against the government (as with those against Suthep) these should be pursued in the courts.However it is reasonable that the courts and related independent agencies should demonstrate they are non partisan.This is an uncertain area in Thail;and

You always like to suggest that anyone who has alternative views to you is muddled or can't see the big picture or some other belittling comment. I'm sure it's not your intention but it makes you look pompous and very insecure having to reassure yourself constantly like this. Rather sad.

It is indeed reasonable that the courts and independent agencies should be unbiased. In the same way that it is reasonable that a government respects the law, doesn't lie and cheat, or act illegally. This is also something uncertain in Thailand.

Anyone who breaks the law should be charged, tried and if convicted face appropriate penalties under law. This doesn't happen in murder, manslaughter, or other serious criminal charges so it's not likely that any of these politicians, regardless which side or in which gang they belong will ever be punished.

The losers are the Thai people as always.