Building a house in Chiang Mai (Saraphi district)

[mikemac]

My wife and I have bought some land in Saraphi, close to the Ping River, just upstream from the weir. We will be ready to start building a house soon and would be interested in hearing from anyone who has recently built in this area. We don't have a builder lined up as yet and would like to hear of any good ones in the Saraphi district, and perhaps any to avoid. I have been told to be careful who I use to do the job, and have heard some real horror stories.

Thanks, Mikemac

[ramrod711]

My wife and I built a house in Saraphi 5 years ago. I made a plan for the house and talked to several architects, they all wanted to build the house and charge 30% to sign off on my plan and be general contractor. My wife has a cousin who is a contractor in Payao, she got a guy to sign the plan for 3,000 baht. She built the house, under budget and ahead of time. A friend liked the house, borrowed my plan which was already signed and used the same contractor. He asked other contractors to give estimates, they were all 3 times the price. You can pm me if you want to.

[triffid]

I too will build a house in Chiangmai, but next year.

So ramrod, just to be clear, I will hire and pay an architect for his plan and professional work. There would then be the cost of engineering drawing and 'sign off'. Finally there will be the actual builder and building cost to pay. Is there anything I've missed? If not, then where does that 30% fit? And 30% of what?

Would appreciate a clarification to help me do my planning and budgeting.

[MAJORUS]

Sent you a message,Regards

[kiwitezza]

I am also building a house in Saraphi this year. I drew up my own house design and went to the local Tessaban office. Asked for an engineer and then asked him how much to draw up engineers plans with permit approval etc. The land I bought already has a thai style house on it. The engineer also arranged for the demolition permit. Total cost for all is 20,000 baht.

I am a builder by trade and have a local thai builder doing the construction for me. You will have to be on site most days to make sure everything is built correctly.

[onthedarkside]

<snip>

You will have to be on site most days to make sure everything is built correctly.

Could not agree more. I well remember in our very first house build many years ago I had to go away for a couple of weeks. i arrived back, the concrete floors had been poured, but zero water pipework (water in/drain out) for the kitchen had been installed. I pointed this out to the builder, oh - you want a kitchen sink, no problem, and some poor soul had to chisel out channels - in 4 apartments. I could relate a dozen more horror stories while watching the workers attempt more complex tasks.

[ramrod711]

I too will build a house in Chiangmai, but next year.

So ramrod, just to be clear, I will hire and pay an architect for his plan and professional work. There would then be the cost of engineering drawing and 'sign off'. Finally there will be the actual builder and building cost to pay. Is there anything I've missed? If not, then where does that 30% fit? And 30% of what?

Would appreciate a clarification to help me do my planning and budgeting.

The way it was explained to me was that the architect did not want to just convert my drawing into a proper plan that would be accepted by the Abatah in my village. He wanted to be the general contractor, hire the subcontractors and supply the materials. His price reflected a 30% profit over his costs. We built a 196 sq. meter one story house, one meter above grade with a 14mx3m porch. We supplied our own fans, electrical panel and granite counter tops. The contractor charged one million baht, a little over a year later my friend used our plan, made minor changes and was charged 1.1 million.

[mr chow]

Horror stories!!!!! Believe them. All true. I had a friend who was building a house in Mae Jo and before it was done he had to move to Isaan in fear of his life from the contractor!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Oscar2]

my wife owns properties in Saraphi for many years. she had to bring in 2 meters of soil. her properties were some of the few in that village that have not flooded.

Saraphi is not my cup of tea...but to each their own. about 8 months ago we went to one of the properties which surrounded by rice fields only to find a snake as big as my leg (no exaggeration) living on one of the vacant properties. the most exciting place to go in Saraphi is 7-Eleven...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ but then, not a lot seems your cup of tea.

And as for snakes, the only one I've had in the house was at our downtown place.

[evenstevens]

<snip>

You will have to be on site most days to make sure everything is built correctly.

Could not agree more. I well remember in our very first house build many years ago I had to go away for a couple of weeks. i arrived back, the concrete floors had been poured, but zero water pipework (water in/drain out) for the kitchen had been installed. I pointed this out to the builder, oh - you want a kitchen sink, no problem, and some poor soul had to chisel out channels - in 4 apartments. I could relate a dozen more horror stories while watching the workers attempt more complex tasks.

24/7 is the key time on site,otherwise you will be beaten up ,one way or another,during a the course of a build

[ericpasansai]

top design and build he has never let me down after building a number of houses for me 0864305757

[eyecatcher]

Seems saraphi is the in place!....but it stretches from global to nong hoi to ban wang tan and to saraphi, a fantastic area with the river running through it.

Likewise drew my own plans for the house paid 6000bt to get them converted to CAD. Local office near global house signed them off for free....monkeys the lot of `em

Will be doing most the work myself as I trust no one who doesn't know what a spirit level and a plumb line is.

Will be looking for a shuttering and connie crew though and structural steel gang.

We should have our own saraphi builders forum now.

[Beetlejuice]

All you lot who have bought land with your wives, not legal, you`re breaking the law.

There are limitations as a couple as you (falung) need to state that you have no rights over the land as it will not be in your name but your Thai wife. The land or property must be registered under the name of the Thai spouse. The married couple will be asked to sign legal declarations at the Land office stating that the funds used are the separate property of the Thai spouse. Meaning the purchase of the land must be the Thai wife`s money.

You may get away with it, providing that the Thai spouse doesn`t decide to seek greener pastures elsewhere, or decides to bring a new Thai boyfriend onto the scene, she doesn`t die, the farang does not get into disputes with neighbors, or no one of authority decides to investigate.

[eyecatcher]

bJ

Mind your own business will you, you are in the boat with the others no doubt getting pleasure from trying catch people out, you will be saying we aren't allowed to build next...w.p. And all that.

For us, my money is under lock and key and it has been for years, our house and land came via mortgage from bank, and the next project is heading that way as well.

For me I will contribute the banks deposit no doubt but that's the only risk I take.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

All you lot who have bought land with your wives, not legal, you`re breaking the law.

There are limitations as a couple as you (falung) need to state that you have no rights over the land as it will not be in your name but your Thai wife. The land or property must be registered under the name of the Thai spouse. The married couple will be asked to sign legal declarations at the Land office stating that the funds used are the separate property of the Thai spouse.

Have never signed anything of the sort.

Meaning the purchase of the land must be the Thai wife`s money.

Check.

[Beetlejuice]

bJ

Mind your own business will you, you are in the boat with the others no doubt getting pleasure from trying catch people out, you will be saying we aren't allowed to build next...w.p. And all that.

For us, my money is under lock and key and it has been for years, our house and land came via mortgage from bank, and the next project is heading that way as well.

For me I will contribute the banks deposit no doubt but that's the only risk I take.

I am pointing out the law.

No matter how the money is obtained, If it came to the crunch, your wife would still have to show documented proof that the land is solely purchased with her money. Many believe that by obtaining a bank loan to purchase land even in the wife`s name, that it is a way around the system, but the loan still has to be shown that it is being paid back with the wife`s money and how she obtains the funds to make the payments.

And if you are planning more projects, than that makes you a land and property speculator under your wife`s name.

My reasons for mentioning this, is to make those who do not know the laws and the systems here regarding the rules for farangs purchasing land and real estate, is to make them aware of the laws and of the risks involved.

Over the years here I am personally witnessed the downfalls of some ex-pat acquaintances who ended up losing everything, including the shirts off their back when their Thai wives had either left them or died, and then the Thai families have come onto the scene and claimed everything as the next of kin.

What I said still stands, it`s not legal under Thai law, which means officially if the crap ends up hitting the fan, you have no claims whatsoever and stand to lose big time.

[Cnxforever]

First of all be careful in Saraphi - built high - as some areas there are prone to flooding.

You have two choices here when building a house - No 1 - either you go to a building firm they name the price after seeing your plans as a turnkey project or No 2 you hire labor / foreman and purchase all building materials yourself. If you have a lot of money and want a stress free building time - go with option No 1!

But be very careful when choosing the first option because if you do not hire a reputable builder they will quote you a price for the entire building - will then of course choose the cheapest possible materials to maximize their profits - and it so happens quite frequently run out of money half way through the project - seen that many times - of course you love your new house and want to move in soon - so you keep paying..

Ask a Thai to contact your local Orbordor where they issue the building permits - the people in charge there are architects / engineers and they are happy to make a few thousand Baht on the side. Some people will try to charge you 1000 Baht/ sm2 for plans - I was quoted up to 70.000 Baht for my house plan by architects and at the end payed 6000 Baht at the local Orbortor.

After contacting several building companies who quoted us for turnkey projects - we choose the second option of hiring a builder who had quoted me a price per square meter for labor (pay only in installments according to project stage otherwise he will have no money left to pay his people!) - and we purchased all building materials - in any case they will try to get as much money off you as possible - and you will need an honest Thai to handle all the purchases because if you walk into any hardware store as a Farang the price rises "slightly". Be aware of people showing up at your construction site and your builder pretends he has never met them before as he will call them and gets a cut on everything they sell to you. Then again if you think they offer value for money go with them - it keeps the builder happy.

If the person doing the purchasing is your Thai partner - be prepared to come as close to a divorce as you can ever get! hahaha....... it is a lot of stress - but it pays off at the end. I had an incredible Thai project manager - he /she is the most important person for you to liaise with the builder.

There are a thousand things to think of - cement, bricks, sand, gravel, steel - those are the easy ones we where lucky and had a supplier - reasonably priced - near us who delivered "free" within an hour of calling him. The stress comes later when you start dealing with the little details!

Do not built under time constraint - always allow extra time for everything and always calculate in delays otherwise you make yourself crazy!

All of the contractors / subcontractors will tell you they can do anything - if possible check out some of their previous projects and look at the little details - if your builder hires the subcontractors he will never pay them what he tells you they always take a cut sometimes up to 50 % - you can imagine how motivated the subcontractors are! - If possible find the people like electricians, tile layers, painters yourself.

Do not listen to sales people or others who recommend certain products from large companies as superior to those of smaller ones as it is mostly stupid made up stories circulated by the big companies - avoid a certain big roof-tile company like the plague! Ask people who have built houses here themselves for advise - they don't make money of you and will answer to their best ability.

Hope that helps - Good luck!

[nivram4491]

First of all be careful in Saraphi - built high - as some areas there are prone to flooding.

You have two choices here when building a house - No 1 - either you go to a building firm they name the price after seeing your plans as a turnkey project or No 2 you hire labor / foreman and purchase all building materials yourself. If you have a lot of money and want a stress free building time - go with option No 1!

But be very careful when choosing the first option because if you do not hire a reputable builder they will quote you a price for the entire building - will then of course choose the cheapest possible materials to maximize their profits - and it so happens quite frequently run out of money half way through the project - seen that many times - of course you love your new house and want to move in soon - so you keep paying..

Ask a Thai to contact your local Orbordor where they issue the building permits - the people in charge there are architects / engineers and they are happy to make a few thousand Baht on the side. Some people will try to charge you 1000 Baht/ sm2 for plans - I was quoted up to 70.000 Baht for my house plan by architects and at the end payed 6000 Baht at the local Orbortor.

After contacting several building companies who quoted us for turnkey projects - we choose the second option of hiring a builder who had quoted me a price per square meter for labor (pay only in installments according to project stage otherwise he will have no money left to pay his people!) - and we purchased all building materials - in any case they will try to get as much money off you as possible - and you will need an honest Thai to handle all the purchases because if you walk into any hardware store as a Farang the price rises "slightly". Be aware of people showing up at your construction site and your builder pretends he has never met them before as he will call them and gets a cut on everything they sell to you. Then again if you think they offer value for money go with them - it keeps the builder happy.

If the person doing the purchasing is your Thai partner - be prepared to come as close to a divorce as you can ever get! hahaha....... it is a lot of stress - but it pays off at the end. I had an incredible Thai project manager - he /she is the most important person for you to liaise with the builder.

There are a thousand things to think of - cement, bricks, sand, gravel, steel - those are the easy ones we where lucky and had a supplier - reasonably priced - near us who delivered "free" within an hour of calling him. The stress comes later when you start dealing with the little details!

Do not built under time constraint - always allow extra time for everything and always calculate in delays otherwise you make yourself crazy!

All of the contractors / subcontractors will tell you they can do anything - if possible check out some of their previous projects and look at the little details - if your builder hires the subcontractors he will never pay them what he tells you they always take a cut sometimes up to 50 % - you can imagine how motivated the subcontractors are! - If possible find the people like electricians, tile layers, painters yourself.

Do not listen to sales people or others who recommend certain products from large companies as superior to those of smaller ones as it is mostly stupid made up stories circulated by the big companies - avoid a certain big roof-tile company like the plague! Ask people who have built houses here themselves for advise - they don't make money of you and will answer to their best ability.

Hope that helps - Good luck!

This is fantastic advice. One of the best posts I have ever seen on building advice.

It might be an idea to build up a knowledge base of honest and reliable managers, concrete builders, roof steel wotkers, tilers, plumbers (I know they are rare or perhaps nonexistent), electricians (ditto the previous comment) etc. Method 2 would be a much better option if you had the required knowledge but would probably take a long time to build the house.

[evenstevens]

hi mike mac..

a very good farung website is WWW.COOLTHAIHOUSE.COM absoulately stacks of info u need.and blding storys by the bucketfulls, i.m.o the older storys are the best by far,

very best of luck

[rawhod]

All you lot who have bought land with your wives, not legal, you`re breaking the law.

There are limitations as a couple as you (falung) need to state that you have no rights over the land as it will not be in your name but your Thai wife. The land or property must be registered under the name of the Thai spouse. The married couple will be asked to sign legal declarations at the Land office stating that the funds used are the separate property of the Thai spouse. Meaning the purchase of the land must be the Thai wife`s money.

You may get away with it, providing that the Thai spouse doesn`t decide to seek greener pastures elsewhere, or decides to bring a new Thai boyfriend onto the scene, she doesn`t die, the farang does not get into disputes with neighbors, or no one of authority decides to investigate.

Same old...same old...

All you lot...of miserable, glass half empty, pessimistic, negative, don't you go doing anything here in Thailand group member comment.

[Beetlejuice]

bJ

Mind your own business will you, you are in the boat with the others no doubt getting pleasure from trying catch people out, you will be saying we aren't allowed to build next...w.p. And all that.

For us, my money is under lock and key and it has been for years, our house and land came via mortgage from bank, and the next project is heading that way as well.

For me I will contribute the banks deposit no doubt but that's the only risk I take.

I am pointing out the law.

No matter how the money is obtained, If it came to the crunch, your wife would still have to show documented proof that the land is solely purchased with her money. Many believe that by obtaining a bank loan to purchase land even in the wife`s name, that it is a way around the system, but the loan still has to be shown that it is being paid back with the wife`s money and how she obtains the funds to make the payments.

And if you are planning more projects, than that makes you a land and property speculator under your wife`s name.

My reasons for mentioning this, is to make those who do not know the laws and the systems here regarding the rules for farangs purchasing land and real estate, is to make them aware of the laws and of the risks involved.

Over the years here I am personally witnessed the downfalls of some ex-pat acquaintances who ended up losing everything, including the shirts off their back when their Thai wives had either left them or died, and then the Thai families have come onto the scene and claimed everything as the next of kin.

What I said still stands, it`s not legal under Thai law, which means officially if the crap ends up hitting the fan, you have no claims whatsoever and stand to lose big time.

If mine dies, we have a will where I get the assets, and in the case of land, have 1 year as a farung to sell it. If she leaves me, there is a private contract made between her and a trusted friend for a substancial amount. I hope to never need either.

Usually yes, but In the case of a deceased Thai wife, if her family decide to make claim to the land and dispute the legality of the way it was purchased in the civil court and there is no paper evidence that the said land was 100% purchased with the Thai spouse`s money, you stand to lose all or part of it at the discretion of the judge and could still be eligible to pay back any loans acquired to purchase the land

This happened to an Australian guy I knew who`s Thai wife was killed in a motorbike accident 11 years ago. He fought long and hard for 2 years via the legal system, lawyers, 2 court cases, cost him 400000 baht in legal fees that resulted in losing 80% of his land to his wife`s family, the remainder of what was left he was allowed to sell but at a great loss. The guy was under 50 and after his wife`s death was no longer eligible to remain in Thailand as married to a Thai spouse and too young to apply for a retirement visa, plus losing most of his lands and a stack of cash fighting the case. After everything was concluded the guy had to return to Australia, after paying his over stay fine, practically destitute. He died a year later from a heart attack that his family said was probably brought on by the stress he suffered in Thailand after the death of his wife.

Even if after the death of a Thai spouse no one tries to make any claims on the marital land, the farang may still have to prove it`s legality during the selling of the land, and if all is not in order the Government can confiscate the land under the law, because it`s not simply a process that a farang widower just places a land up for sale with no questions asked, there is more involved to it than that.

[rawhod]

First of all be careful in Saraphi - built high - as some areas there are prone to flooding.

You have two choices here when building a house - No 1 - either you go to a building firm they name the price after seeing your plans as a turnkey project or No 2 you hire labor / foreman and purchase all building materials yourself. If you have a lot of money and want a stress free building time - go with option No 1!

But be very careful when choosing the first option because if you do not hire a reputable builder they will quote you a price for the entire building - will then of course choose the cheapest possible materials to maximize their profits - and it so happens quite frequently run out of money half way through the project - seen that many times - of course you love your new house and want to move in soon - so you keep paying..

Ask a Thai to contact your local Orbordor where they issue the building permits - the people in charge there are architects / engineers and they are happy to make a few thousand Baht on the side. Some people will try to charge you 1000 Baht/ sm2 for plans - I was quoted up to 70.000 Baht for my house plan by architects and at the end payed 6000 Baht at the local Orbortor.

After contacting several building companies who quoted us for turnkey projects - we choose the second option of hiring a builder who had quoted me a price per square meter for labor (pay only in installments according to project stage otherwise he will have no money left to pay his people!) - and we purchased all building materials - in any case they will try to get as much money off you as possible - and you will need an honest Thai to handle all the purchases because if you walk into any hardware store as a Farang the price rises "slightly". Be aware of people showing up at your construction site and your builder pretends he has never met them before as he will call them and gets a cut on everything they sell to you. Then again if you think they offer value for money go with them - it keeps the builder happy.

If the person doing the purchasing is your Thai partner - be prepared to come as close to a divorce as you can ever get! hahaha....... it is a lot of stress - but it pays off at the end. I had an incredible Thai project manager - he /she is the most important person for you to liaise with the builder.

There are a thousand things to think of - cement, bricks, sand, gravel, steel - those are the easy ones we where lucky and had a supplier - reasonably priced - near us who delivered "free" within an hour of calling him. The stress comes later when you start dealing with the little details!

Do not built under time constraint - always allow extra time for everything and always calculate in delays otherwise you make yourself crazy!

All of the contractors / subcontractors will tell you they can do anything - if possible check out some of their previous projects and look at the little details - if your builder hires the subcontractors he will never pay them what he tells you they always take a cut sometimes up to 50 % - you can imagine how motivated the subcontractors are! - If possible find the people like electricians, tile layers, painters yourself.

Do not listen to sales people or others who recommend certain products from large companies as superior to those of smaller ones as it is mostly stupid made up stories circulated by the big companies - avoid a certain big roof-tile company like the plague! Ask people who have built houses here themselves for advise - they don't make money of you and will answer to their best ability.

Hope that helps - Good luck!

Excellent advice...

We are just starting a build in Tasala. We are using the Method 2.

Its not too onerous to source your own materials.

One thing we have learned in doing work on our present town house is that when you buy materials, don't let the builder/welder/etc go with you. The seller will up the price and give the extra to them.

We have found an excellent builder who, if he sources materials, only charges us the price that he is paying.

Bye the way...we are using a set of government plans from "Crossy's" site

http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/index.html

If you are near Nong Hoi, bear in mind that it does tend to flood there.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Even if after the death of a Thai spouse no one tries to make any claims on the marital land, the farang may still have to prove it`s legality during the selling of the land, and if all is not in order the Government can confiscate the land under the law, because it`s not simply a process that a farang widower just places a land up for sale with no questions asked, there is more involved to it than that.

You have an epic ability of presenting crazy horror stories as common practise. Yes, this is still Thailand. Bad stuff happens. Yes there are people getting in trouble in all kinds of scenarios, like traffic accidents, business disputes; you name it. That doesn't mean that the bar-stool wisdom is actually what typically happens.

For mortgaged property, the bank owns it. They expect monthly payments for the next 20 years. They don't let any relative move in when they're not on the mortgage and aren't paying for it.

Secondly, transferring to your children's name in the case where a Thai spouse dies is the most logical way to proceed. Then you don't need to urgently sell it. (And if you have children, sooner or later they should end up with the property anyway.) Once in a child's name it's no longer easily sellable but given that we're families here and not dodgy property speculators, that doesn't matter.

As for paying the mortgage, the Mrs has plenty income, not to mention funds from selling/mortgaging other land.

Edited March 24, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[mamborobert]

THere are heaps of ways to defacto own land....legally. The rolling 30 year lease (which I accept has never been tested but hey I will be dead for second renewal). Also if you have a wife be named as her executor with a correct will you can let estate roll on for a few years and when selling have SOME say where funds are disbursed (50% of something is better than a hundred percent of nothing). I think going the dummy company is the only really iffy one now.

Edited March 24, 2014 by mamborobert

[WinnieTheKhwai]

[in response to the latter part of the previous page]

... and thus another good topic on building / construction has been derailed by the usual suspect(s) ... (yes I'm also to blame for that for responding)

Please let's put this to bed. After all what are we talking about here: mortgage payments on something that you can't take to the grave anyway (so your wife and/or kids will end up with something, and most likely they really deserve something) versus renting, where you are a 100% sure that nobody ends up with anything except for the landlord, not to mentioin that it never feels like 'home' as there is limited incentive/possibility of keeping it nice and homey, making improvements, etc. Or, condominium living: your own little battery-hen box in the sky. (Great for BKK, Hong Kong, SIngers.. this though is Chiang Mai.. where you can still shape a tiny part of the world yourself.)

So before making this out to be something bigger than it is, it's the difference between perhaps 20K monthly in mortgage payments versus the 100% guarantee of seeing 15K evaporate in rent every month. It's an argument over 5K per month. That's not even my beer budget. (Also in 10 years time your mortgage payments are still 20K, but chances are that rents are up there to the same amount anyway.)

Please please please let's return to construction, architecture and related stuff.

Maybe these discussions go better if right from the get-go the OP mentions he has no intention of owning anything and just enjoys architecting and building stuff for the heck of it, just like others enjoy golfing, beer drinking or forum-scaremongering.

Edited March 24, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[cheeryble]

bJ

Mind your own business will you, you are in the boat with the others no doubt getting pleasure from trying catch people out, you will be saying we aren't allowed to build next...w.p. And all that.

For us, my money is under lock and key and it has been for years, our house and land came via mortgage from bank, and the next project is heading that way as well.

For me I will contribute the banks deposit no doubt but that's the only risk I take.

I am pointing out the law.

No matter how the money is obtained, If it came to the crunch, your wife would still have to show documented proof that the land is solely purchased with her money. Many believe that by obtaining a bank loan to purchase land even in the wife`s name, that it is a way around the system, but the loan still has to be shown that it is being paid back with the wife`s money and how she obtains the funds to make the payments.

And if you are planning more projects, than that makes you a land and property speculator under your wife`s name.

My reasons for mentioning this, is to make those who do not know the laws and the systems here regarding the rules for farangs purchasing land and real estate, is to make them aware of the laws and of the risks involved.

Over the years here I am personally witnessed the downfalls of some ex-pat acquaintances who ended up losing everything, including the shirts off their back when their Thai wives had either left them or died, and then the Thai families have come onto the scene and claimed everything as the next of kin.

What I said still stands, it`s not legal under Thai law, which means officially if the crap ends up hitting the fan, you have no claims whatsoever and stand to lose big time.

If mine dies, we have a will where I get the assets, and in the case of land, have 1 year as a farung to sell it. If she leaves me, there is a private contract made between her and a trusted friend for a substancial amount. I hope to never need either.

Usually yes, but In the case of a deceased Thai wife, if her family decide to make claim to the land and dispute the legality of the way it was purchased in the civil court and there is no paper evidence that the said land was 100% purchased with the Thai spouse`s money, you stand to lose all or part of it at the discretion of the judge and could still be eligible to pay back any loans acquired to purchase the land

This happened to an Australian guy I knew who`s Thai wife was killed in a motorbike accident 11 years ago. He fought long and hard for 2 years via the legal system, lawyers, 2 court cases, cost him 400000 baht in legal fees that resulted in losing 80% of his land to his wife`s family, the remainder of what was left he was allowed to sell but at a great loss. The guy was under 50 and after his wife`s death was no longer eligible to remain in Thailand as married to a Thai spouse and too young to apply for a retirement visa, plus losing most of his lands and a stack of cash fighting the case. After everything was concluded the guy had to return to Australia, after paying his over stay fine, practically destitute. He died a year later from a heart attack that his family said was probably brought on by the stress he suffered in Thailand after the death of his wife.

Even if after the death of a Thai spouse no one tries to make any claims on the marital land, the farang may still have to prove it`s legality during the selling of the land, and if all is not in order the Government can confiscate the land under the law, because it`s not simply a process that a farang widower just places a land up for sale with no questions asked, there is more involved to it than that.

There's a flip side to all this.

You can say you (unintentionally) broke the law by providing funds to buy land and ask for the purchase to be annulled.

The land must then be sold in x months and the provider of the funds (you?) gets the sale price.

I know of this happening in real life, though it took time through the courts very boring.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[mikemac]

First of all be careful in Saraphi - built high - as some areas there are prone to flooding.

You have two choices here when building a house - No 1 - either you go to a building firm they name the price after seeing your plans as a turnkey project or No 2 you hire labor / foreman and purchase all building materials yourself. If you have a lot of money and want a stress free building time - go with option No 1!

But be very careful when choosing the first option because if you do not hire a reputable builder they will quote you a price for the entire building - will then of course choose the cheapest possible materials to maximize their profits - and it so happens quite frequently run out of money half way through the project - seen that many times - of course you love your new house and want to move in soon - so you keep paying..

Ask a Thai to contact your local Orbordor where they issue the building permits - the people in charge there are architects / engineers and they are happy to make a few thousand Baht on the side. Some people will try to charge you 1000 Baht/ sm2 for plans - I was quoted up to 70.000 Baht for my house plan by architects and at the end payed 6000 Baht at the local Orbortor.

After contacting several building companies who quoted us for turnkey projects - we choose the second option of hiring a builder who had quoted me a price per square meter for labor (pay only in installments according to project stage otherwise he will have no money left to pay his people!) - and we purchased all building materials - in any case they will try to get as much money off you as possible - and you will need an honest Thai to handle all the purchases because if you walk into any hardware store as a Farang the price rises "slightly". Be aware of people showing up at your construction site and your builder pretends he has never met them before as he will call them and gets a cut on everything they sell to you. Then again if you think they offer value for money go with them - it keeps the builder happy.

If the person doing the purchasing is your Thai partner - be prepared to come as close to a divorce as you can ever get! hahaha....... it is a lot of stress - but it pays off at the end. I had an incredible Thai project manager - he /she is the most important person for you to liaise with the builder.

There are a thousand things to think of - cement, bricks, sand, gravel, steel - those are the easy ones we where lucky and had a supplier - reasonably priced - near us who delivered "free" within an hour of calling him. The stress comes later when you start dealing with the little details!

Do not built under time constraint - always allow extra time for everything and always calculate in delays otherwise you make yourself crazy!

All of the contractors / subcontractors will tell you they can do anything - if possible check out some of their previous projects and look at the little details - if your builder hires the subcontractors he will never pay them what he tells you they always take a cut sometimes up to 50 % - you can imagine how motivated the subcontractors are! - If possible find the people like electricians, tile layers, painters yourself.

Do not listen to sales people or others who recommend certain products from large companies as superior to those of smaller ones as it is mostly stupid made up stories circulated by the big companies - avoid a certain big roof-tile company like the plague! Ask people who have built houses here themselves for advise - they don't make money of you and will answer to their best ability.

Hope that helps - Good luck!

Thanks Cnxforever, sounds like very good advice and I will definitely keep your words in mind.

And thanks to everyone else who have taken the time to help me out, I do appreciate it.

My wife and I have been renting a condo in the city for the past 4 years and will soon be moving out to Saraphi into a rented house, hopefully not far from our land, so we can be a bit closer when the building starts. Wife wants to open a restaurant out there, we had one for a while in Thapae Road. Will pm you guys when we open new restaurant and invite you round for a free feed and few beers. She is a great cook and I know how to open beer bottles.

Mikemac

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bJ

Mind your own business will you, you are in the boat with the others no doubt getting pleasure from trying catch people out, you will be saying we aren't allowed to build next...w.p. And all that.

For us, my money is under lock and key and it has been for years, our house and land came via mortgage from bank, and the next project is heading that way as well.

For me I will contribute the banks deposit no doubt but that's the only risk I take.

I am pointing out the law.

No matter how the money is obtained, If it came to the crunch, your wife would still have to show documented proof that the land is solely purchased with her money. Many believe that by obtaining a bank loan to purchase land even in the wife`s name, that it is a way around the system, but the loan still has to be shown that it is being paid back with the wife`s money and how she obtains the funds to make the payments.

And if you are planning more projects, than that makes you a land and property speculator under your wife`s name.

My reasons for mentioning this, is to make those who do not know the laws and the systems here regarding the rules for farangs purchasing land and real estate, is to make them aware of the laws and of the risks involved.

Over the years here I am personally witnessed the downfalls of some ex-pat acquaintances who ended up losing everything, including the shirts off their back when their Thai wives had either left them or died, and then the Thai families have come onto the scene and claimed everything as the next of kin.

What I said still stands, it`s not legal under Thai law, which means officially if the crap ends up hitting the fan, you have no claims whatsoever and stand to lose big time.

If mine dies, we have a will where I get the assets, and in the case of land, have 1 year as a farung to sell it. If she leaves me, there is a private contract made between her and a trusted friend for a substancial amount. I hope to never need either.

Personally I think you would be in for an uphill battle with the relatives. Don't mean to be negative but I've seen what happens here.

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Even if after the death of a Thai spouse no one tries to make any claims on the marital land, the farang may still have to prove it`s legality during the selling of the land, and if all is not in order the Government can confiscate the land under the law, because it`s not simply a process that a farang widower just places a land up for sale with no questions asked, there is more involved to it than that.

You have an epic ability of presenting crazy horror stories as common practise. Yes, this is still Thailand. Bad stuff happens. Yes there are people getting in trouble in all kinds of scenarios, like traffic accidents, business disputes; you name it. That doesn't mean that the bar-stool wisdom is actually what typically happens.

For mortgaged property, the bank owns it. They expect monthly payments for the next 20 years. They don't let any relative move in when they're not on the mortgage and aren't paying for it.

Secondly, transferring to your children's name in the case where a Thai spouse dies is the most logical way to proceed. Then you don't need to urgently sell it. (And if you have children, sooner or later they should end up with the property anyway.) Once in a child's name it's no longer easily sellable but given that we're families here and not dodgy property speculators, that doesn't matter.

As for paying the mortgage, the Mrs has plenty income, not to mention funds from selling/mortgaging other land.

Hi Winnie, I'm really interested in the idea of putting real property in the name of my child. Could you suggest any links to read up on this idea? I've scoured the net but come up with a lot of ads, scam sites, as well as conflicting information. Thanks.